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Class Action investigation(s) into Intel 13th-14th gen defects now underway.

That's generally not true - most of the time a company is not liable for product quality after the warranty period - there are exceptions, but your risk is far less after that period expires.

In this case you may be right if the defect is reported within the warranty period, but even so, they are much less on the hook to replace the cpus after warranty runs out (they can have different options, they don't have to provide the same cpu etc.). Also you can be sued for 'breach of warranty' which is a risk in and of its own.
The defect has been reported within the warranty period. Intel reported it. Intel said that all systems are experiencing irreversible degradation within the warranty period. The damage has already been done to both the product and Intel's defense.
 
The defect has been reported within the warranty period. Intel reported it. Intel said that all systems are experiencing irreversible degradation within the warranty period. The damage has already been done to both the product and Intel's defense.
Correct - but by extending the warranty, all they do is add additional liablilty - because now they can be sued for breach of warranty... It does nothing for them to do that.

You could argue that it would retain more market share by giving clients confidence and stop them from running into the arms of their competitors... it seems like they either didn't make that calculation or don't think it's worth the risk. Honestly i think the damage is done.

And their earnings are tonight, I think that call is going to get spicy, will listen in.
 
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Just an update, as it looks like for now Intel has every intention to accept and substitute boxed units of 13th and 14th gen CPUs that have shown instabilities due to degradation caused by high voltage. So for these boxed units it looks like the class action will not be needed and actually may fail as Intel is honoring its warranty. The keyword here is "boxed", as this applies only to CPUs that have been bought in packaged units.

On the contrary, as it appears, if you bought a pre-built PC with a 13th or 14th gen CPU from a system integrator (even big ones like HP or Dell...) then you may be in a bit more trouble, as it looks like the SI will pass the ball to Intel, and Intel will pass the ball back to the SI, but none of them will actually take responsibility and substitute your faulty hardware. This appears to happen because Intel have different warranties with system integrators, and also because there may be a mechanism for which Intel can pause or deny claims if further investigation is required (such as the SI designing systems where the CPUs are either run out of spec, or placed in an out of spec environment). So here the class action may have more ground.

Intel is in equal trouble regardless of whether the product is boxed or not.

First, RMAing does nothing to detract from the loss in revenue from the downtime caused by Intel CPU failures. Intel replacing the CPU will not reduce the damages as a result of that failure and downtime. It's one thing if their CPUs are failing at a normal rate (around 1.2%) but given the 50% failure rate claimed by multiple sources it is vastly beyond normal customer expectations of the product and as a result does not qualify for protection from a product defect tort. Any reasonable observer would come to the conclusion that a 50% failure rate for a CPU is ridiculously out of line given the normal failure rate. Please reference 2nd link below for more information.

Second, Intel has not made a broad public announcement informing customers. Comments on reddit and on the down low messages do not come anywhere close to meeting their requirement to inform customers of this issue. It's almost irrelevant that Intel will RMA CPUs if customers are not aware of the issue in the first place. The CPU is naturally one of the last parts a customer will blame and Intel is absolutely using that as part of a game of waiting out the warranty or tiring customers with it's lack of disclosure. It is actively generating more liability by not replacing every potentially affected CPU on the market as the harm to parties increases in the form of additional downtime and computer troubles.

Third, degradation is permanent. As Intel stated, every CPU 65w and higher is impacted. What is the remedy for customers who have an impacted CPU unknowingly who later experience issues as a result of damage caused by Intel yet the CPU is now out of warranty? None. It's nonsensical for Intel to approve RMA's one by one when they've made it clear that every CPU 65w and higher is effected. They are trying to reduce their liability at the cost of end users, end of story.

Fourth, Intel was denying RMA's prior to this becoming public. Alderon games has publicly commented on how many RMAs Intel denied despite it being Intel's issue as the root cause. Since Intel's post regarding the voltage issue, they've come out and questioned why Intel was denying their RMA's when they've made a statement acknowledging that they were aware of the oxidation defect. I'm not even sure you can trust that Intel will even properly uphold the warranty for each individual RMA. To me it seems like a play to sweep this under the rug with RMA's that only Intel will know about and divide customer power so they can silently deny warranties on a case by case basis once they think media attention has died down. I absoltely would not put that past a company like Intel.

Fifth, Intel knew of oxidation issues for a year and only just released a statement. Just for this problem alone, completely aside from the voltage issue, Intel knowingly let customers suffer the issue and I have to wonder just how much liability in regards to RMAs they dodged by doing so. I imagine no small amount.

Product defects are part of torts law, wherein a company's acts or omissions result in injury or harm (physically, financially, or otherwise) to another. There are three kinds of torts: intentional, negligent, strict.


Product defect and torts law are well defined and it could very well be argued that Intel qualifies for all three. Intel could be sued for strict liability for it's product defect and separately for it's neglegent failure to disclose the oxidation issue for an entire year. It's failure to disclose oxidation and it's current failure to disclose ongoing issues to all customers could be considered an intentional tort as well.


Just to raise the mood a bit anyways, if your CPU has not yet shown the signs of critical instabilities, it appears that Buildzoid in this video may have just found a way to keep the newest Intel Default Settings, while also limiting the CPU to less than 1.4v (so to not cause degradation) and get a nice performance boost (compared to having only the standard Intel Default Settings) and lower temperatures. So now Intel may just have to do the same tweak, or something similar, in their mid-August patch and this issue may be solved without incurring in reduced performances. Also, you can just follow the Buildzoid video and have it now.

That video is only intended to show you how to get as much performance as possible with safety features turned on and the Intel default profile.

It's never implied that it is guaranteed to stop degradation. We don't know which particular voltage is the problematic one, at what level it becomes problematic, how well adjusting voltage manually interacts with the claimed buggy micro-code, or even if Intel is telling the truth. Level1Tech's gaming server provider data showed that turning down CPU clocks and voltage only delayed the issue from appearing, it did not stop it. It could very well be that Intel's micro-code update merely delays degradation outside of warranty.
 
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A damaged reputation in this day and age...no coming back from it.
 
I think the biggest question is why Intel have not disclosed the batch numbers of degradation effected 13Gen cpu's. My 13900K built week 21(May 22-28) 2023 is at this moment OK,but how long will it last? I have never run this CPU on anything but Intel defaults ,unlike my 9900K still running at 50 MHz since 2018 with no problems at all.
 
im not sure doing either one of those things would help or save them from the lawsuits - it would make the public perception better, but extending the warranty on a faulty chip is adding more legal risk (by extending the period you're on the hook for),.

Regarding recall - probably 10-15% of i9 of cpus have failed so far, to recall all 100% instead of just replacing the failed ones after the patch would cost 8-9x as much. Im not even sure that's a cost they could realistically absorb given not only i9's are affected, so they would have to effectively recall all their RPL CPUs in the last 2 years.

They are already legally on the hook for all the CPUs they admitted fault for. The CPUs typically don't stop working as soon as the warranty expires, therefore the legal responsibility doesn't end when the warranty expires. Legally, Intel already said all they needed to in order to be held liable. The only thing left is to prove damages via some trend information from some source. You prove that the CPUs on average fail x% faster than usual (comparing a patched vs non-patched fail rate, for example), then say Intel owes $yy per CPU on average due to degradation and premature failure, and then add it all up for all the CPUs, and profit.

So....I see both of your points. Let me offer perspective slightly askew from where you are.

Intel, in a press release, said they had a finite number of chips they new oxidized...and they presumably fixed that problem and moved forward. This is an opportunity for a targeted recall, which is what Intel should have done immediately to obfuscate the nature of some of the worse things.


The problem is that they released this in a competing news cycle to the failures of their highest end chips...which were attributable to excessive power limits. Ouch.


If Intel had differed the i9 outrage with the oxidation response, and targeted numbers that the consumers were responsible for finding, then they'd have about 60-70% of total returns and a way to weasel away from power issues on their higher order stuff. Nope. They tried to weasel out of both at once...and now people want their heads.
I'm sure this was an executive decision, from somebody who knew about the oxidation and wanted 0% responsibility for it....but when two huge issues hit the plate at the same time and Intel acts as a bunch of silos, they wind-up eating that bullet pretty hard. Because people cannot trust Intel, because they've already lied in what would be acceptable in a vacuum.
 
A damaged reputation in this day and age...no coming back from it.
I'm looking at AMD 9000 series myself. My AMD 7530U laptop is solid.

I have also a 450$ Raptor paper weight sitting here. Might as well drill a hole through it and make a keychain out of it.

For sale, bricked 14700K-eychain
Asking price, free 99.
(Parity comment, not really a keychain yet. Ill let you know if I do though!)
 
Hopefully, Intel loyalists see why this BS about having to change MB every 2 years is such a d*** move by them! Even in the worst-case scenario you could've salvaged the rest of the system if they could use the new(er) 15/16 gen chips in the same board but hey Intel wants you to pray at their "6 GHz" altar ~ you better not be late now :slap:
 
As usual it's all about class action lawyers getting fat payouts and affected users getting a sweet $1.68 each, assuming they even know anything happened.
I can't even buy a McDonald's chicken with 1.68
 
Guys... the intel earnings... what a bloodbath.
1722547160083.png



Oh My God Wow GIF
 
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The whole market is down heavy but that AH crush is gonna hurt anyone still crazy enough to be a long lol.
Im thinking of buying some shares... :roll:

to catch the knife or not... that is the question. I remember AMD annoucning that they were going to lease back their campus and also that Jim Keller was there working on something - their stock was at like $2 per share o_O.

I feel Intel could hit the single digits the way things are going.
 
Im thinking of buying some shares... :roll:

to catch the knife or not... that is the question. I remember AMD annoucning that they were going to lease back their campus and also that Jim Keller was there working on something - their stock was at like $2 per share o_O.

I feel Intel could hit the single digits the way things are going.
You know Pelosi bought 10K shares of Nvidia on the 30th last month. Follow the whales from Congress ftw lmao. o_O
 
Imagine if you are from outside the USA like about 90+% of the planet.

You get no recourse and no class actions either.

So guess if you (outside the USA) will be wiling to take a chance on an Intel product for the next 5 years at least?

I sure will not and will avoid them for any company purchase decisions as a good business prudence.
 
Imagine if you are from outside the USA like about 90+% of the planet.

You get no recourse and no class actions either.

So guess if you (outside the USA) will be wiling to take a chance on an Intel product for the next 5 years at least?

I sure will not and will avoid them for any company purchase decisions as a good business prudence.
EU and its consumer protection laws do not exist according to this dude...........
 
EU and its consumer protection laws do not exist according to this dude...........

I live in a country that participates in the “””EU”””.

Do I want to deal with increased support cases and run around to diagnose mysterious instability reports throughout the business?

Because the “EU” will not send a magical tech fairy to do it for me while I wait for intel to write a couple of notices and take actions.

Or do I act proactively and sensibly and place a temporary purchases ban on a vendor with potential product defects and non cooperative behaviour?

If I spec AMD CPUs for current and near future procurement I am acting only in the best interest of my company.
 
I live in a country that participates in the “””EU”””.

Do I want to deal with increased support cases and run around to diagnose mysterious instability reports throughout the business?

Because the “EU” will not send a magical tech fairy to do it for me while I wait for intel to write a couple of notices and take actions.

Or do I act proactively and sensibly and place a temporary purchases ban on a vendor with potential product defects and non cooperative behaviour?

If I spec AMD CPUs for current and near future procurement I am acting only in the best interest of my company.
but what if those break?
 
but what if those break?
Every piece of equipment breaks at some point.

There is expected lifetime, expected failure rate and expected servicing costs around which business decisions are made.

A supplier fails for years to disclose or acknowledge serious product defects that massively affects these metrics. This behaviour makes that particular supplier a poor choice for next procurement cycles.
 
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