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[CNN] Why gaming is now for adults and art lovers

Are video games art?

  • Yes, the highest form

  • Yes

  • Yes, the lowest form

  • No

  • No, they are repulsive

  • Abstain (show me the results)


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FordGT90Concept

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http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/arts/video-games-highest-form-of-art/index.html
Video games exist as an amalgam of many forms of traditional art, where the player is no longer merely an observer -- as one would be in admiring a painting on a wall or a sculpture on a pedestal. Rather, the player is an active participant in the emergence of the form.
Ironic that this article makes no mention of Witcher which is explicitly for adults (nudity, adult themes, etc.) and is very much art--what books turned into an experience is like.
 

hat

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I don't know about "the highest form"... that seems a bit... arrogant to say that. But I could call them art, sure. Thousands of hours go into crafting the mechanics of the game, everything you see, hear, and do, and, of course, the story, if applicable.
 
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I don't know about "the highest form"... that seems a bit... arrogant to say that. But I could call them art, sure. Thousands of hours go into crafting the mechanics of the game, everything you see, hear, and do, and, of course, the story, if applicable.

Same reason I didn't chose it. Though, I will say that some of my favorite games are combination of audio, visuals, and story-telling. In a way, one could be consider them to be a higher-form of art.
 
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but, "adults" of current Era, i.e 30-55 'ish, all grew up with games in theyre lives to some degree. I was born in the 70's, and for me it started with Arcades, intelevision, Atari, and a Shit ton of Joust ;)

so IMO, ALL games are for "Adults"
 
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Oh god, we had so much talk about this during GamerGate. No one cares if games are some higher form of art. Gaming industry is already surpassing movie and music industry whether it's fancy high level art form or just simply games to enjoy.

And what really drives my nerves is how everyone coddles fragile children. Oh no, the game has some virtual tits in it, we need to think of the children! Oh no, there is blood in this game, think of the children! Give me a break. I've played violent games since I was a small kid and I turned out just fine, without doing any school shootings or beating people. I've played games with babes that have tits since I was a kid and I'm not running around raping women because of it.

But these new games, they all need gazillion ratings, labels and warnings, we need to wrap kids in cushions to protect their fragile feefees. It's beyond ridiculous. If you teach kids to treat others with respect from their very early age and show them what's socially acceptable and what isn't and they'll be just fine regardless of what kind of hyper violent and sexualized games they play. Well duuuuuh, art is meant to be controversial, sexual or gross. It's what makes art ART.

Bottom line, yes, I think games are art, but essentially, I don't really care. I play games for entertainment and if something really amazes me, I'll praise that and potentially call it a work of art due to complexity or artistic design, either through hyper realistically presented world or because it's so abstract and fictional. I often praise System Shock 2 because of the cinematic story, incredible interactivity with items and world, the atmosphere brought with amazing sounds and music as well as how well the game aged despite being released over 16 years ago. Yes, for me, it's art to create such absolutely massive world or shall I say entire universe around it. For some it's just some electronic thing that can't ever be art. For me, knowing how much hard work and passion it went into the product, it is art.
 
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so IMO, ALL games are for "Adults"
No, not all games are for adults. Nintendo's first party games are example of games for everyone yet some of them are a form of art on there own (Zelda series.)
 
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Games can be, but it does depend on the game. Pure multiplayer games tend to be less artful due to the lack of stories and the like. Some games are very dry and mediocre, and more or less are designed to hit a bunch of marketing bullet points. An example is Mafia III, which has little identity on its own. It is essentially a GTA clone and copies the horrible driving/shooting/gameplay mechanics of it without putting its own spin on it. Unlike Sleeping Dogs, which played well into the setting and made the combat focus around excellent fighting mechanics. The creativity was stifled and clearly the game was designed with little freedom from the developers and had stringent requirements to hit certain feature sets of other high profile games.
 
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Ironic that this article makes no mention of Witcher which is explicitly for adults (nudity, adult themes, etc.) and is very much art--what books turned into an experience is like.
As with any sampler list, people will always feel some entry deserves a mention (or not).

Oh sure, it's art in the most technical way. Think of all the stuff that goes into making one... the writing, the cinematography, etc. Whether it's highbrow or lowbrow or some other label is up for grabs... or maybe just a wide range like everything else (books, movies, TV, etc.). Compare Pac-Man, Zork, Wizardry, Ecco the Dolphin, Fallout, Street Fighter, Dance Dance Revolution, Neverwinter Nights, Grim Grimoire, Medal of Honor, The Longest Journey, World of Warcraft, Dear Eshter, and so on. I do think it's certainly more accessible to a wider audience now, particularly in places that favor faster and more streamlined games such as the US (in contrast, to say, Russia). Zork and Wizardry were slower more cerebral games that were the result of hardware capabilities at the time. Pac-Man was a faster and simpler game and something that could be easily picked up, not too different from Call of Duty or League of Legends... which would explain their popularity (and expanding demographic). The evolution of fighting games (e.g. Street Fighter, King of Fighters, BlazBlue) and shoot-em-ups (Space Invaders, 19XX, Mars Matrix) becoming more complex is probably a testament to that as well. In between all that, we've got some really odd stuff like LSD Dream Simulator and SeaMan.

And what really drives my nerves is how everyone coddles fragile children. Oh no, the game has some virtual tits in it, we need to think of the children! Oh no, there is blood in this game, think of the children! Give me a break. I've played violent games since I was a small kid and I turned out just fine, without doing any school shootings or beating people. I've played games with babes that have tits since I was a kid and I'm not running around raping women because of it.

But these new games, they all need gazillion ratings, labels and warnings, we need to wrap kids in cushions to protect their fragile feefees. It's beyond ridiculous. If you teach kids to treat others with respect from their very early age and show them what's socially acceptable and what isn't and they'll be just fine regardless of what kind of hyper violent and sexualized games they play. Well duuuuuh, art is meant to be controversial, sexual or gross. It's what makes art ART.
Counter-Strike and Call of Duty have been great for teaching kids to engage each other in good-hearted healthy competition, no? No unsportsman like conduct there, no siree. :rolleyes:

I think it's partly a cultural thing. I remember playing Kujaku-Oh 2, which was censored in the US in the numerous usual ways and released as "Mystic Defender", and the nude babies that oozed out of places are still memorable. For bonus fun, unless you used a powerful attack, they would leave a pile of pulsating innards. I thought the creepiness was pretty atmospheric. Needless to say, that did not make the transition overseas. What passes for OK in one place might be considered insensitive elsewhere for cultural, political, historical or some other reason. The US is more tolerant of violence and gore than Europe and Japan. Games such as Call of Duty the ESRB gives a 'M' (17+) get a 18+ from PEGI and a 'Z' (18+) from CERO. Nudity seems to go in the opposite direction though (see Fahrenheit -> Indigo Prophecy). And yes, the rating system is arbitrary and subjective just like for movies.... but people seem to hold to them as a general guideline of sorts I guess.

All this reminds me of a web-comic from Scandanavia and the World:
 

dorsetknob

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so IMO, ALL games are for "Adults"

Nah !!! Most Nintendo wii Games are for Fat/ Unfit Couch Potatoes who need Exercise :)

Jury is out on VR Games :)
 
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Please if voice acting is art the digital video it definitely
 
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I didnt even bother to read the entire article when it said that games are now for "adults". That article needs a comment section so that I can write the writer what time waster it was.
 

rtwjunkie

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An example is Mafia III, which has little identity on its own. It is essentially a GTA clone and copies the horrible driving/shooting/gameplay mechanics of it without putting its own spin on it. Unlike Sleeping Dogs, which played well into the setting and made the combat focus around excellent fighting mechanics.

This statement couldn't be further from the truth on two counts. It plays well into the setting because the setting is the true star in the game. And the shooting mechanics are some of the best in a very long time. So that's definitely not "generic."
 
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Games with complex level design, memorable soundtracks and sophisticated plots are definitely some kind of art. Concept art from unreleased Core Design: Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary Edition, Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness, Kingdom Hearts games, Metroid Prime games, Resident Evil games, Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story is extremely beautiful. I'm sure the artists who created that stuff definitely put their souls in that work. Diablo concept art is kickass too.
 

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I don't know about "the highest form"... that seems a bit... arrogant to say that. But I could call them art, sure. Thousands of hours go into crafting the mechanics of the game, everything you see, hear, and do, and, of course, the story, if applicable.
It encompasses most art forms: drawing, design, environment, writing, voicing, modeling, sound, and music. Even how the player behaves in this virtual environment can be a form of art in itself and that's something unique to games (think Minecraft or the fluidity of a competitive shooter or racing game).

Some are Art
Some you would not force your worst Enemy to Play
There's art in every type that fits under that category though. Why should games be any different?

Games can be, but it does depend on the game. Pure multiplayer games tend to be less artful due to the lack of stories and the like. Some games are very dry and mediocre, and more or less are designed to hit a bunch of marketing bullet points. An example is Mafia III, which has little identity on its own. It is essentially a GTA clone and copies the horrible driving/shooting/gameplay mechanics of it without putting its own spin on it. Unlike Sleeping Dogs, which played well into the setting and made the combat focus around excellent fighting mechanics. The creativity was stifled and clearly the game was designed with little freedom from the developers and had stringent requirements to hit certain feature sets of other high profile games.
But everything in that game, someone put there. What you describe is the result of corporate overlords developing a plan and forcing their drones to stick to it. It's like the pre-fab house form of art. Everything is white washed so it looks clean but in the process, it loses its soul and character. It's still art but perhaps not art people will really appreciate as an art form.
 
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This is definitely art.

Here i show my true intuition, i know your moves before you even have a handle on me, i am all intuition, zero logic, i am born this way, it is an art form.




Is this not what was meant? i was trying to be inspirational..

Ok i will just leave.
 

cadaveca

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Personally, I think games ARE artistic, and as such, they should charge $250+ per copy so that only those with the wallets to truly appreciate them in the right way can buy them. Screw affordable gaming for kids and those that are stuck on a budget, I want more!
 
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Personally, I think games ARE artistic, and as such, they should charge $250+ per copy so that only those with the wallets to truly appreciate them in the right way can buy them. Screw affordable gaming for kids and those that are stuck on a budget, I want more!

Hardly any copy of a painting costs $250+. Or a cinema or museum ticket for that matter.
 
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At $250 you would definitely complete them
 
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What do you call a guy with no arms and no legs, hanging from a wall?
 

cadaveca

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Hardly any copy of a painting costs $250+. Or a cinema or museum ticket for that matter.
So? A game is neither of those things, so aren't to be looked at the same way. Raise the cost, people will start stealing again in high numbers, even in the face of criminal prosecution, as they do already today. IF people are willing to do so, regardless of their reasoning, then there is value there that is greater than I think some are willing to admit.

I don't mind paying for something I find of value. I have legit copies of Windows for every PC in my house (and then a few extra copies for future builds), multiple copies of many games, since there are 6 people in my house, and for some games I own, I've spent literal $1000's on (when you include DLC costs). I have legit audio and video libraries. There is no "pirate" anything in my house. So if you cannot say the same, you'll never see things the way I do.

But that's OK.

At $250 you would definitely complete them
I have about 100 titles in my Steam account I haven't ever even played yet. You're right... I might not have bought those titles then. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and so, that might affect the bottom line of many software houses, and the actual quality of some of these releases might improve drastically.

I mean, after all, I paid $130 for BF1, and that game is a mess of bugs. I really would pay $250 for it if it was released in "perfect" state, and I'm sure others would as well. Star Citizen is another title that can easily show how people do value games far more than some might be willing to admit.
 

hat

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So? A game is neither of those things, so aren't to be looked at the same way. Raise the cost, people will start stealing again in high numbers, even in the face of criminal prosecution, as they do already today. IF people are willing to do so, regardless of their reasoning, then there is value there that is greater than I think some are willing to admit.

Games, movies, tv shows, music... all are easily pirated. People do it because they want x, but they can't afford to pay for it. It's also somewhat of a victimless crime. I guarantee you that the people having their work pirated are much better off than at least 99% of the people doing it. As for the risk, well, the risk is small. If there was a much greater chance of being penalized for this, I'm sure many people would no longer do it. Piracy basically means you get what you want for free without (really) hurting anybody and there's very little risk involved.
 

cadaveca

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Games, movies, tv shows, music... all are easily pirated. People do it because they want x, but they can't afford to pay for it. It's also somewhat of a victimless crime. I guarantee you that the people having their work pirated are much better off than at least 99% of the people doing it. As for the risk, well, the risk is small. If there was a much greater chance of being penalized for this, I'm sure many people would no longer do it. Piracy basically means you get what you want for free without (really) hurting anybody and there's very little risk involved.
I wouldn't say it is victim-less at all, but OK, if someone didn't ever intend to pay then you might say that there is no loss anyway, since they didn't have the money to begin with. But if you have the money... that's just plain low in my books. Like I said above, I buy games and then sometimes don't even play them, but for me that's about who made the game; they can have some of my money anyway. I mean, I don't buy PCs, so the money I would have spent on PC parts goes to games now for sure. But then I guess when it comes to PC stuff, games sell hardware, so maybe people would have lesser PCs if they bought games and movies and such that they download via their PCs from whatever sources... it's just distributing those dollars to what is kinda of another part of the same industry...

Music is the one that really bugs me, but I guess these days musicians have found a better way to deliver content, so rather than having middle-men, they release stuff on their own, and make the same cash. :p
 
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So? A game is neither of those things, so aren't to be looked at the same way. Raise the cost, people will start stealing again in high numbers, even in the face of criminal prosecution, as they do already today. IF people are willing to do so, regardless of their reasoning, then there is value there that is greater than I think some are willing to admit.

I don't mind paying for something I find of value. I have legit copies of Windows for every PC in my house (and then a few extra copies for future builds), multiple copies of many games, since there are 6 people in my house, and for some games I own, I've spent literal $1000's on (when you include DLC costs). I have legit audio and video libraries. There is no "pirate" anything in my house. So if you cannot say the same, you'll never see things the way I do.

But that's OK.


I have about 100 titles in my Steam account I haven't ever even played yet. You're right... I might not have bought those titles then. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and so, that might affect the bottom line of many software houses, and the actual quality of some of these releases might improve drastically.

I mean, after all, I paid $130 for BF1, and that game is a mess of bugs. I really would pay $250 for it if it was released in "perfect" state, and I'm sure others would as well. Star Citizen is another title that can easily show how people do value games far more than some might be willing to admit.

I have a lot more games and I have a lot to finish up, but I'm getting there. I've just finished 5 games in a row, I usually decide to play entire series. Last summer it was entire FEAR series, recently it was entire Serious Sam series. Still have Dead Space 3 to finish the Dead Space series. And I keep indie games as quick entertainment in between unless they are super immersive and fun, like Defense Grid, Bejeweled 3, Plants vs Zombies or Plague Inc where I spent countless hours. Decided to skip buying BF1, CoD:IW and Mirror's Edge Catalyst till I finish some more of the older games.

EDIT:
Btw, as far as pirating goes, I've downloaded a share of stuff as a kid, but have purchased basically all of them on Steam, GOG and Origin ever since I got a job. Games are still considered taboo in my country and if you're 30-ish years old and play games, everyone look at you weird, like it's somehow different to play games than playing real football for a hobby. But games are not socially acceptable here, but football is. Because reasons. So, you can understand how nearly impossible it was to get parents buy you a game. Pirating was the only option. Now that I deal with my finances, I buy them every time because I just can't be bothered with cracks and stuff.
 
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This statement couldn't be further from the truth on two counts. It plays well into the setting because the setting is the true star in the game. And the shooting mechanics are some of the best in a very long time. So that's definitely not "generic."

Shooting mechanics are horrid, and they're essentially the same as GTA, Sleeping Dogs and every other generic 3rd person shooting mechanic out there. To top it off the sounds are atrocious, incomplete animations and the like. There is essentially nothing in the way of loadout editing and really zero reason to use a pistol over an SMG. All the weapon classes play exactly the same. The only difference is some cost more and have stats increased to go along with a higher price tag. A very lazy, poorly done weapon system all around. If you differentiate weapons by increasing nonsensical stats then I consider it to be poor. Sleeping Dogs is okay as you're not using them very often, and the fighting is excellent. Probably one of the better fighting games with great use of the environment, which makes it stand out among its peers.

Setting wise it was also a let down. There is not much done to make the game feel distinct from other games in the genre. Take, for example, calling in support. This is a mechanic pulled right out of other games but it does not make sense in the 1960s as mobile phones did not exist. So we see Lincoln shouting aloud "I need ammo" or "I need a car" and some how your allies can hear you from a distance to deliver what you need. It is pulled straight from games like GTA, but without the mobile phone. Which just stands out and shows how little effort was put in to differentiate the game. A good game would have made these mechanics distinct and play into the setting. An average games does not.

Overall, it feels very much like a game designed with money in mind first and foremost with little creative freedom for the developers. All games are designed to make money, but others more so. Mafia 3 feels like it was designed following a specific, formulaic template.

A good "art" game would be a title that aims to improve something. To push standards of its genre further than previous games. While not a fan of the 2nd game, it seems like Witcher 3 would be an excellent example. I have not yet played it, but it takes the concept of open world games being repetitive and empty and smashes it. It meaningfully populates a massive world with an excellent narrative. It seems to be standard setting that open world action RPGs will be trying to top for years to come.

This is all rather subjective, mind you.
 
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