Core frequency behave weirdly sometimes

[silvermilk]

I'm using throttle stop to undervolt i9-13980hx, sometimes when I use the TS bench, the frequency can only boost to 4ghz. I try to restart my laptop, but it didn't help. I must shut down my laptop and on it again for the CPU to boost to 4.9ghz when running the TS bench. I wonder what is causing this issue and if there's a way to fix it or if I set something wrong. I have attached my settings below. I'm using throttle stop with G-helper, dun know if will this cause the weird behavior of the CPU frequency. Thanks in advance for the help

 

[unclewebb]

what is causing this issue

Post a screenshot of the TPL window so I can see those settings. If you have a problem, you need to post screenshots while the problem is happening. Is anything lighting up red in Limit Reasons under the CORE column?

The TS Bench has never been tested in Windows 11 and it has never been tested on a 12th Gen or newer CPU that uses P & E cores. I have seen some situations where the individual tasks that the TS Bench creates all get scheduled only on the E cores and none of the tasks are scheduled on the P cores. If you are having any issues with the TS Bench, do not use it. If you want a simple benchmark to load your CPU try using the CPU-Z Bench test or use Cinebench.

If you have this problem again, try checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window.

I'm using ThrottleStop with G-helper

I have never done any testing so I do not know how ThrottleStop and G-helper interact with each other.

The CPU E cache voltage does not need to be set equal to the P cache voltage. The E cache voltage does not need to be set at all. Some people leave this voltage at 0. Do some testing to see if undervolting the E cache does anything useful. If undervolting the E cache causes instability, it might limit the more important core and P cache undervolt.

 

[silvermilk]

Post a screenshot of the TPL window so I can see those settings. If you have a problem, you need to post screenshots while the problem is happening. Is anything lighting up red in Limit Reasons under the CORE column?

The TS Bench has never been tested in Windows 11 and it has never been tested on a 12th Gen or newer CPU that uses P & E cores. I have seen some situations where the individual tasks that the TS Bench creates all get scheduled only on the E cores and none of the tasks are scheduled on the P cores. If you are having any issues with the TS Bench, do not use it. If you want a simple benchmark to load your CPU try using the CPU-Z Bench test or use Cinebench.

If you have this problem again, try checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window.


I have never done any testing so I do not know how ThrottleStop and G-helper interact with each other.

The CPU E cache voltage does not need to be set equal to the P cache voltage. The E cache voltage does not need to be set at all. Some people leave this voltage at 0. Do some testing to see if undervolting the E cache does anything useful. If undervolting the E cache causes instability, it might limit the more important core and P cache undervolt.

hi unclewebb, thanks for the reply, I just encountered this issue again, Before this happened, I'm running a CPU stability test then got BSOD, after I restarted my laptop, the frequency can only run at 4ghz. I took ur advice, and reset the E core cache to default, ran the benchmark by using Cinebench R23. But still, it happened again. I have attached the screenshot of TPL and others below. once again thanks for the help

 

[unclewebb]

Try checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. That controls the maximum CPU speed.

Do not check the Sync MMIO box. This is not necessary when the MMIO Lock box is checked.

Open Limit Reasons when testing. Are any reasons for throttling lighting up red?

 

[Bogus5]

GHelper sets the power limits too low in the default power plans, the screenshot during the Cinebench test shows that you have the Silent power plan set to PL2 100W.
You've also changed the Turbo multiplier on the first two CPU cores from 56 to 54.

On the Armory Crate on the Turbo power plan, my multipliers (FID) are a minimum of 46 under load, and with the recent TS settings 49 to 50.

Armory Crate, sets power plans:

Silent - PL1 - 90 W, PL2 - 100 W
Performance - PL1 - 110 W, PL2 - 120 W
Turbo - PL1 - 170 W, PL2 - 175 W.

I don't know how GHelper does it.

 

[unclewebb]

@Bogus5
ThrottleStop shows that the turbo power limits are set to PL1 = 145W and PL2 = 175W. I am not sure if that screenshot was taken while the CPU was loaded and throttling. It is definitely possible that Armory Crate or GHelper is interfering with the turbo power limits.

The main screen of ThrottleStop did not seem to show any power limit throttling. Limit Reasons should be open when testing so he can watch for any throttling while Cinebench is running.

I did notice that the multipliers ThrottleStop is reporting for the P cores are all exactly 39.00. During power limit throttling, it would be very unusual to see an exact multiplier like that. The CPU will be constantly adjusting its speed and the multipliers do not tend to be nice even numbers. After seeing that and the PL1 and PL2 values, I thought it might be the Speed Shift Max register that has been lowered to 39 by Armory Crate or GHelper. Checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window might fix that.

It is not a good idea to have multiple programs on the same computer all trying to write different values to the same CPU control registers.

 

[Bogus5]

The power limits are a limit and in the Silent power plan you do not exceed 100 W and the FID multiplier is 39 and everything is arithmetically correct.
In TPL, MMIO limits are important, so it is better not to block them, because then the values are not presented.

Note that during the test the CB R23 had a PKG Power max of 102.9 W, so it was running on PL2 100 W and not 175 W.

As for Armory Crate, it works well with ThrottleStop, while GHelper is a mystery to me.

 

[unclewebb]

I see low power consumption because the CPU multiplier is being limited to 39. It does not seem to be power limit throttling. Turning on the Log File option while testing would confirm what is limiting the CPU.

MMIO limits are important, so it is better not to block them

Whether the MMIO limits should be locked or not depends on what a person is trying to accomplish. These are the dynamic power limits that might get set to 100W. That does not happen when they are locked.

 

[Bogus5]

And yet it happens since the MSR limits are set to PL1 - 145 W, PL2 - 175 W, MMIO are locked and yet under load the computer works with the PL2 limit - 100 W.
Clearly what's wrong here.

 

[unclewebb]

the computer works with the PL2 limit - 100 W

I think you are reading this wrong. The CPU is only consuming 100W because its speed is being limited by the 39 multiplier. There is no evidence in the information presented so far that the CPU is power limit throttling. When a power limit is causing the throttling, you will see PL1 or PL2 lighting up red under the CORE column of Limit Reasons and you will see POWER in red on the main ThrottleStop screen like this.

A ThrottleStop log file will confirm the reason for throttling.

 

[Bogus5]

I'm reading correctly because I'm familiar with this processor and the Armory Crate program, so I know that this is what this processor has in the Silent power plan.
I'm also afraid that TS has no secrets from me anymore either.

 

[career]

If it is Asus you would better start with EC and System Reset by following method https://www.asus.com/support/faq/1050239/ (Please read it carefully twice!).

Bogus5, why don't you tell him about that kind of mess you could get if previously you have installed (and have been using) G-Helper. That was you who suggested to reinstall Windows or probably use backup of your Windows Registry https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...-other-power-limit.310220/page-2#post-5164300.

 

[Bogus5]

GHelper is an open project, so it evolves very quickly and what was current some time ago is difficult to relate to the present of this program. Yes, I wrote that GHelper makes changes to the Windows registry, and that these changes at the time of writing were not beneficial.
Currently I don't know because I don't use GH.

When I used the GHelper app, the Turbo power plan set in it had the same performance as the Silent power plan set in Armory Crate, which disqualified the GHelper in my eyes.
I don't know what it looks like at the moment, but the easiest way would be if the author of GHelper copied the power limits from Armory Crate.

 

[silvermilk]

GHelper sets the power limits too low in the default power plans, the screenshot during the Cinebench test shows that you have the Silent power plan set to PL2 100W.
You've also changed the Turbo multiplier on the first two CPU cores from 56 to 54.

On the Armory Crate on the Turbo power plan, my multipliers (FID) are a minimum of 46 under load, and with the recent TS settings 49 to 50.

Armory Crate, sets power plans:

Silent - PL1 - 90 W, PL2 - 100 W
Performance - PL1 - 110 W, PL2 - 120 W
Turbo - PL1 - 170 W, PL2 - 175 W.

I don't know how GHelper does it.

I believe it's nothing to do with g-helper power plan as you can see from the screenshot. Even when I'm using the silent mode, in R23, I can still reach 139w.

I see low power consumption because the CPU multiplier is being limited to 39. It does not seem to be power limit throttling. Turning on the Log File option while testing would confirm what is limiting the CPU.


Whether the MMIO limits should be locked or not depends on what a person is trying to accomplish. These are the dynamic power limits that might get set to 100W. That does not happen when they are locked.

Hi unclewebb, sorry for the late reply, I tried to reperform this issue myself, I noticed if I restart my laptop, the frequency will be limited at 3.9Ghz, if I shut down and on it, everything is fine. If you happen to know what might cause this weird behavior?

 

[unclewebb]

what might cause this weird behavior?

Did you try checking the Speed Shift box in the ThrottleStop TPL window yet? I do not know what causes the behavior but checking that box might fix it.

Silent Mode is likely changing the Speed Shift Max value to control the maximum CPU speed. It may not be setting this correctly when you change to a different power plan.

The screenshot you posted shows that the CPU is thermal throttling. That is why it is not running at full speed. HWiNFO does not accurately report the CPU speed when a CPU is thermal throttling or power limit throttling. Ignore the HWiNFO MHz during those situations. Open up Limit Reasons when testing. That will show THERMAL glowing red which indicates thermal throttling.

Your cooling is good for about 140W. You need better cooling if you want to run your CPU consistently at full speed.

I can still reach 139w

I tried to tell @Bogus5 that your computer was not power limit throttling, several times in fact. He had a hard time believing me.

 

[Bogus5]

I tried to tell @Bogus5 that your computer was not power limit throttling, several times in fact. He had a hard time believing me.

Of course, it's hard, because there's absolutely no logic to it, because the Silent power plan never has a power limit set above 100W.
This can only happen if you set the power limits yourself.

Interestingly, when on my laptop in the main TS window the red inscription "Power" is displayed under the load, the power limits remain at the same level all the time, i.e. if the Turbo power plan has PL2 -175 W, then the power does not drop below 175 W until the end of the load.

This last screenshot from GHelper is just shocking to me, because if seerge (the author of GH) set the power limits in such a way, it is rather a grim joke.

@silvermilk

Can you provide power limits (PL1 and PL2) for all power plans in GHelper?

 

[unclewebb]

because the Silent power plan never has a power limit set above 100W.
This can only happen if you set the power limits yourself.

When MMIO Lock is checked in ThrottleStop, if there is a Silent power plan power limit, it is probably not being used.

there's absolutely no logic to it

I would say that there is a lot of logic to it. If enough ThrottleStop data is provided, you can usually figure out exactly what is going on. Turning on the ThrottleStop Log File option when testing and turning off HWiNFO will allow ThrottleStop to record what is causing the throttling. Attaching a log file shows a lot more information compared to the information that a single screenshot can show.

"Power"

Think of Power flickering on and off on the main screen of ThrottleStop as a warning. When you see Power on the main screen, open the Limit Reasons window. The Limit Reasons data is sampled multiple times per second and is the most accurate way to find out why an Intel CPU is throttling. ThrottleStop reports BD PROCHOT throttling which Intel XTU cannot be bothered to report correctly.

This last screenshot from GHelper is just shocking to me

What exactly are you seeing? I might be missing something again.

Asus has set the thermal throttling temperature to 95°C. The CPU is oscillating between 94°C and 96°C as it thermal throttles. That is how thermal throttling works. When the CPU reaches 95°C, it thermal throttles and slows down. When it gets down to 94°C, the CPU is allowed to speed back up. This is happening hundreds of times per second when thermal throttling is in progress. The power limits are not in control of the CPU when it is thermal throttling. Power consumption is being limited by the CPU speed. The CPU speed is being limited by the package temperature which is constantly bouncing off the 95°C PROCHOT limit.

The original screenshot that was posted showed the multiplier locked to 39.00. That is no longer happening. @silvermilk might have checked the Speed Shift box in the TPL window to try and prevent the multiplier throttling that was previously happening.

 

[Bogus5]

You don't understand, and it will be difficult for you to understand if you don't have a mobile computer with a 13th or 14th generation CPU, because these processors behave quite unpredictably for ThrottleStop and, in my opinion, require some kind of stabilization mechanism. Remember the VR CURRENT throttling I reported recently? It does not occur even when I set the maximum amperage to IccMax.
Can you believe it?
On the other hand, under heavy load, it willingly reports PL2 throttling, with basically no side effects.

On the other hand, with the power limits, they are imposed by the Asus software and TS has nothing to add here, because they are what they are.
In the Silent power plan, the PL1 -90 W and PL2-100 W, so when I saw the screenshot from the GHelper, where the Silent power plan is enabled, and the TS shows the current power consumption of 139.7 W and the maximum 163.4 W, it is difficult to say that this is normal.

On my computer under load, the PL2-100 limit means that the processor is running at a maximum of 100 watts and not more, and the same goes for other power plans, 120 watts and 175 watts respectively.

 

[unclewebb]

It does not occur even when I set the maximum amperage to IccMax.

I have always recommended setting IccMax to the max. I do not know why lowering IccMax would cause VR CURRENT throttling. In theory lowering IccMax usually causes EDP throttling, not VR CURRENT throttling. I was helping another user today with an Asus laptop with a 13980HX and he was seeing some bizarre EDP throttling when power consumption was only about 35W. That's definitely not right.

I do not know how much current the voltage regulators in your laptop can deliver. Did you install a BIOS update recently? If you try to run voltage regulators on the edge of what they are capable of, that might cause inconsistent performance and random VR CURRENT throttling. The VR CURRENT throttling trigger could also be related to the temperature of the voltage regulators which can randomly change.

under heavy load, it willingly reports PL2 throttling, with basically no side effects.

Post a TPL screenshot that shows your settings and record a log file when testing. There is always a reason for throttling or for not throttling.

In the Silent power plan, the PL1 -90 W and PL2-100 W

Those power limits might only be enforced when MMIO Lock is not checked. If MMIO Lock is checked, the dynamic MMIO power limits are ignored by the CPU. When you were testing do you remember if the MMIO power limits were locked? None of the screenshots posted by @silvermilk show any evidence of low power limits being used when the G Helper Silent profile is enabled.

it will be difficult for you to understand if you don't have a mobile computer with a 13th or 14th generation CPU

I look at ThrottleStop screenshots day and night and I have not seen anything unusual during the last 15 years. The Intel turbo power limits and current limits are the same as what the 2nd Gen CPUs used. Thermal throttling has worked the same since the beginning of time. Intel added limit reasons data starting with 4th Gen but that has not changed one bit in several years. Speed Shift and the Speed Shift Max variable that controls the maximum CPU speed has been around since 6th Gen. Intel has been recycling the same old ideas for a long time.

Instead of going off topic in this thread, start a new thread and show me lots of ThrottleStop data if you think something does not make sense.

@silvermilk is making progress in this thread. He just needs to find a lot more cooling.

 

[Bogus5]

You're mixing everything up, so you'd better get a good night's sleep instead of just reading day and night about processors you haven't had direct contact with before.
I wrote that the VR CURRENT CPU throttling occurred when IccMax was set to high values, but that it doesn't occur now even though I set the maximum values in IccMax.
Of course, I don't do it in the end, because I think it's quite unwise to set the settings above the recommended values.
It's like using Polish Biseptol for Asian diseases.
Besides, tell me, why would anyone need power plans if they block MMIO at your instigation?
Does it even make sense?

 

[silvermilk]

Of course, it's hard, because there's absolutely no logic to it, because the Silent power plan never has a power limit set above 100W.
This can only happen if you set the power limits yourself.

Interestingly, when on my laptop in the main TS window the red inscription "Power" is displayed under the load, the power limits remain at the same level all the time, i.e. if the Turbo power plan has PL2 -175 W, then the power does not drop below 175 W until the end of the load.

This last screenshot from GHelper is just shocking to me, because if seerge (the author of GH) set the power limits in such a way, it is rather a grim joke.

@silvermilk

Can you provide power limits (PL1 and PL2) for all power plans in GHelper?

I never set PL1 PL2 in g-helper tho. I never check "apply power limits"

Did you try checking the Speed Shift box in the ThrottleStop TPL window yet? I do not know what causes the behavior but checking that box might fix it.

Silent Mode is likely changing the Speed Shift Max value to control the maximum CPU speed. It may not be setting this correctly when you change to a different power plan.

The screenshot you posted shows that the CPU is thermal throttling. That is why it is not running at full speed. HWiNFO does not accurately report the CPU speed when a CPU is thermal throttling or power limit throttling. Ignore the HWiNFO MHz during those situations. Open up Limit Reasons when testing. That will show THERMAL glowing red which indicates thermal throttling.

Your cooling is good for about 140W. You need better cooling if you want to run your CPU consistently at full speed.


I tried to tell @Bogus5 that your computer was not power limit throttling, several times in fact. He had a hard time believing me.

the screenshot i posted is not when the issue is happening, just try to show i can reach more than 100w when in silent mode. you can see from my previous screenshot, that the temp is at around 77 the wattage is at 108w. so i guess it might not be temp throttling at the moment? cause i never check what is limiting the CPU at that time. At least, the issue never happened these few days.

 

[unclewebb]

the screenshot i posted

The first screenshot you posted shows the CPU multiplier is locked to a maximum of 39.00. Some software on your computer is limiting your CPU speed. It might be G Helper or it might be something else. Your computer is not power limit throttling. I suggested checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window to try and fix the multiplier stuck at 39 problem. Did you do that?

Your second screenshot shows the CPU is reaching 95°C so it is thermal throttling. You can only fix a thermal problem by improving the cooling.

the screenshot i posted is not when the issue is happening

Post a new screenshot the next time you have a problem. If you use ThrottleStop and you have checked the Speed Shift box in the TPL window, you might not have the multiplier stuck at 39 problem anymore.

Besides, tell me, why would anyone need power plans if they block MMIO

It looks like G Helper has the ability to control the fan speeds. Some users might want the fan control features but they may not want any power limiting features. Checking MMIO Lock can help prevent any power limiting. silvermilk showed that when MMIO Lock is checked, G Helper is not power limiting his CPU.

ThrottleStop was developed with the help of a friend who owned a mobile 12900HK CPU. We went back and forth for a week and I was able to fix any of the problems that he reported to me. The 12900HK, 13900HX, 13980HX, 14900HX all have an unlocked multiplier and they all use P and E cores. Intel added more cores or increased the maximum MHz with each new generation but under the skin, all of these processors work exactly the same.

If you have any problems with ThrottleStop, start a new thread and I will be happy to try and resolve or explain any issue you are having. When you told me that ThrottleStop was reporting the boot memory speed of your computer and not the real time memory speed, I was able to quickly fix that for you. Thanks for bringing that problem to my attention.