CTS-Labs Posts Ryzen Windows Credential Guard Bypass Proof-of-concept Video

R-T-B · Mar 22, 2018

RejZoR said:
How do you know they are "lax"? Processors aren't something you throw together in 6 hours.

No, but outsourcing to a company known to put blatant backdoors in the chipsets they make was pretty avoidable. Heck, the PSP itself is an outsorced arm piece. All of that points to a lack of true caring at AMD.

cadaveca · Mar 22, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, but outsourcing to a company known to put blatant backdoors in the chipsets they make was pretty avoidable. Heck, the PSP itself is an outsorced arm piece.

That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

HTC · Mar 22, 2018

cadaveca said:
That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

That seems a bit unfair since the same is true for Intel: they also outsource chipsets to ASMedia, don't they?

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

cadaveca said:
That's why the focus is on AMD; It's not that their products are faulty, really, it is that they didn't vet their partner's products that hey integrated into their platform properly.

It's an interesting topic, to me. Like, this very clearly shows how AMD does things, and how they do business. In some ways they are an IP company, but they don't actually fully have enough of their own designs to provide a complete solution; they have to rely on other companies to complete things for them. It's kind of an "open-source" approach to hardware design, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues due to lack of communication between the separate teams at separate offices at separate companies...

Sort of like yhe Super 7 days

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

HTC said:
That seems a bit unfair since the same is true for Intel: they also outsource chipsets to ASMedia, don't they?

No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

Yup for Ryzen, hence some shortcomings, I think AMD may go back to inhouse chipsets after the 470...

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

eidairaman1 said:
Yup for Ryzen, hence some shortcomings, I think AMD may go back to inhouse chipsets after the 470...

Would be smart I think. Hopefully they can do a better job than ASMedia.

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
Would be smart I think. Hopefully they can do a better job than ASMedia.

Well the 990FX was robust for its time, then some boards were Gen3'd

Who knows it would be sweet to see a Roxen or Ryxen475 Chipset lol (made up name)

lexluthermiester · Mar 23, 2018

eidairaman1 said:
Sort of like the Super 7 days

Did you mean "Super Socket 7"?

eidairaman1 · Mar 23, 2018

lexluthermiester said:
Did you mean "Super Socket 7"?

Yes I do

ikeke · Mar 23, 2018

If every time someone discovered a flaw in software/hardware would result in publishing of papers that point to "complete lack of security in said organization" all over the clickbait internet then there would be a lot of these published every day.

(Fortunatly 99,99999% of these cases are handled by adults/professionals, issues are reported to respective organizations who start working on fixes and general public learns of them usually when patch is made available.)

There is no such thing as problem-free hardware or software. There are and always will be bugs in code/design. Humans are the weak link.

john_ · Mar 23, 2018

AMD also doesn't manufacture their own chips. I mean, Global Foundries could, somehow, install backdoors in CPUs, right?

I think people forget AMD's financials. Especially before Ryzen and miners. For years people expect from AMD to be equal to everything it is doing to Intel and Nvidia because they forget that AMD financially is much much more weak compared to the other two. In the past, when Nvidia wasn't even a 1Billion per quarter company, AMD could compete with them. Today Nvidia is making from GPUs more money than AMD is doing from every business it does. No reason to do any kind of comparison with Intel here I believe.

Intel's own chips are full of vulnerabilities and Intel is a huge company that builds everything. Intel had 6-8 months to create patches and the first versions where unstable.

Nvidia's own departments messed up - if we believe Nvidia's official explanation - with the GTX 970 specs. No miscommunication between two different companies.

AMD needed to outsource chipsets, because of financial problems. If Ryzen keeps selling and if miners keep the GPU department profitable, then we will get better products from AMD. Until then we shouldn't have higher expectations from them, than the ones we have from the other two, much bigger and much more profitable companies.
They do have to be more careful, but until now they had no other option but to trust other companies.

HTC · Mar 23, 2018

R-T-B said:
No, they don't. Mobo manufacturerers use ASMedia chips to add suplemental USB ports, but Intel designs it's own chipset and has no relationship really with ASMedia.

AMD literally had ASMedia design their entire chipset.

I stand corrected.

R-T-B · Mar 23, 2018

john_ said:
AMD also doesn't manufacture their own chips. I mean, Global Foundries could, somehow, install backdoors in CPUs, right?

I mean, no, not without the high level transistor code files, no.

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
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Video Card(s)	Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 480 OC 4 GB
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Processor	AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
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Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
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System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

System Name	PCGOD
Processor	AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard	Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling	Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory	16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage	Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s)	NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case	AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s)	Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply	Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse	Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard	Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software	Windows 7 Pro 64

CTS-Labs Posts Ryzen Windows Credential Guard Bypass Proof-of-concept Video

R-T-B

cadaveca

My name is Dave

HTC

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

R-T-B

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

R-T-B

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

lexluthermiester

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman

ikeke

john_

HTC

R-T-B

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