DDR5 vs. DDR4 in gaming perf.

[Dr. Dro]

That test only looked at average FPS, the techspot article indicated sometimes substantial differences in 1% lows, but I believe the conclusions were the same. Both articles used the 12900k too, maybe things would be different if tested with newer AMD DDR5 CPU's?

AMD's chips are no good to test impact of memory performance IMO. They only take low speed DDR5, and the X3D versions largely exist to mitigate that.

Test needs to be done on Raptor Lake and 1DPC boards that can stretch DDR5 clocks. Raptor's about the best chance we've got even though its IMC is very much behind the memory technology itself.

 

[chrcoluk]

I have already ordered my motherboard for upgrading (yes I am upgrading my platform).

I decided to stick with DDR4, time will tell if I regret it, I do have B die at least. Chose the DDR4 steel legends z690 board from asrock one of the few boards with decent connectivity.

The issue for me, is not that is it do I buy DDR4 or DDR5, but rather do I spend £0 on keeping DDR4, or buy DDR5, thats the issue, the fact I already own DDR4. The DDR5 steel legends board, z790 version had worse connectivity, unless one is bothered about a gen 5 m.2 slot.

Stock seems real low as well, I got the last board from amazon, and its amazon EU, none in UK at all. I will buy CPU bit later.

Guessing will also need to either get new cooler or beg noctua for new bits, as I got my existing noctua cooler before the socket came out. Also read about some contact frame's that improve temp's.

 

[JustBenching]

That test only looked at average FPS, the techspot article indicated sometimes substantial differences in 1% lows, but I believe the conclusions were the same. Both articles used the 12900k too, maybe things would be different if tested with newer AMD DDR5 CPU's?

You won't see much difference with different ram kits no matter what platform you use. The biggest gains from memory comes from manual tuning it. In the glorious comet lake days you could get 40% more fps by pushing your ram to 4400c16 and beyond. Now the gains are much smaller cause cpus have huge caches, but I reckon you can still get a 15-20%.

 

[ir_cow]

You 100% sure ? b760i DDR5 z790i Edge would be the only 700series boards from MSI with 1DCP(DDR5)

The Z790i for sure can do 8K. Not idea about higher. But its a ITX

 

[opheen]

The Z790i for sure can do 8K. Not idea about higher. But its a ITX

Yeah seen that , what i ment is , are you sure of that it want be any other 1DCP board from msi , only z790i?

 

[ir_cow]

Yeah seen that , what i ment is , are you sure of that it want be any other 1DCP board from msi , only z790i?

Nope, not 100% on this, but the Z690 Unify-X is well documented to be limited around 7600. That is the only other 2-DIMM MB for MSI I believe.

 

[opheen]

Nope, not 100% on this, but the Z690 Unify-X is well documented to be limited around 7600. That is the only other 2-DIMM MB for MSI I believe.

z690i unify (itx) have same limit, even when the itx board is 12 Layer 1DCP

vs z690 unify X (ATX)

 

[ir_cow]

z690i unify (itx) have same limit, even when the itx board is 12 Layer 1DCP

Hmm. I haven't heard much of the Z690i version. can't image it being better compared to the Unify-X.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Hmm. I haven't heard much of the Z690i version. can't image it being better compared to the Unify-X.

I can imagine the short PCB being helpful with the signal strength.

Speaking of which, the ACE is a huge motherboard, it's about the size of the old X58 Rampage II Extreme, I only imagine what the Godlike must be like.

 

[ir_cow]

I can imagine the short PCB being helpful with the signal strength.

We are talking about mm here lol. Also Layer count means jack. 8-Layers beats many 12 layers. Just marketing BS.

 

[Dr. Dro]

We are talking about mm here lol. Also Layer count means jack. 8-Layers beats many 12 layers. Just marketing BS.

I agree, but still, the shorter distance, even if just a mm or two, could maybe be helpful with signal integrity if tolerances are so incredibly tight. Might also be a bunch of nonsense, though

 

[opheen]

Hmm. I haven't heard much of the Z690i version. can't image it being better compared to the Unify-X.

Like i said here early'r My friend run with 13900KF Msi MEG z690i Unify(itx) G.Skill 2x16gb 7800c36 a-die @ 8000 c38

 

[ir_cow]

Like i said here early'r My friend run with 13900KF Msi MEG z690i Unify(itx) G.Skill 2x16gb 7800c36 a-die @ 8000 c38

Sure its not the Z790i one? Either way that is still decent. I'm stuck at 8200 for the Z790 Apex if I want to pass y-cruncher 2.5B. 8600 does boot though. A bit high for the daily voltages. I'll leave it to the pros to ruin their CPUs haahaha.

 

[opheen]

Sure its not the Z790i one? Either way that is still decent. I'm stuck at 8200 for the Z790 Apex if I want to pass y-cruncher 2.5B. 8600 does boot though. A bit high for the daily voltages. I'll leave it to the pros to ruin their CPUs haahaha.

Hehe , yes i am sure we ordered motherboard together
I bought the Pro z690-A DDR4 since i am collecting SR and DR B-die kit for years


, he bought the 7800kit in the hope of maybe managing 7400\7600, but some have more luck than others, it was not possible to talk to him for several days afterwards

 

[Mussels]

AMD's chips are no good to test impact of memory performance IMO. They only take low speed DDR5, and the X3D versions largely exist to mitigate that.

Test needs to be done on Raptor Lake and 1DPC boards that can stretch DDR5 clocks. Raptor's about the best chance we've got even though its IMC is very much behind the memory technology itself.

Yet on intel, the performance gains from running higher speeds are far smaller

 

[Dr. Dro]

Yet on intel, the performance gains from running higher speeds are far smaller

Yeah, I guess that there's not much point in going much beyond the "sweet spot" around 6000 right now, although, the 13th gen chips are the only ones that are reliably going beyond 7000 right now. I guess we just need newer CPUs that are designed to take advantage of that much bandwidth.

 

[Cowboystrekk]

In games that love bandwith like Total war difference can be huge.
Xmp:

Tuned:

With proper tuning DDR4 performs much closer, but on the other hand, some high quality 2dimm boards like Asus Z790 Apex og Gigabyte Z790 Tachyon can run DDR5 at 8200+.

In older games like Starcraft DDR4 is superior due to latency:
Xmp:

Tuned:

In most games they perform similar, but generally in newer games DDR5 seems to have an advantage.

Yet on intel, the performance gains from running higher speeds are far smaller

One guy I know tested tweaked M-die 7200 vs A-die 8000 on 13900K. They performed about udentical as M-die can run timings a bit tighter and the BW is already massive. On DDR4 it will make a larger impact going from 3600 to 4000 as BW is limited

 

[QuietBob]

From the above video it is clear that DDR5 shines in CPU heavy games which load multiple threads equally:




To the contrary, in older games that can't take advantage of MT effectively, DDR4 usually fares better:




In short, CPU heavy games are likely to benefit from the increased bandwidth provided by DDR5, while older titles profit more from lower latencies of DDR4.

 

[opheen]

2x16 DR B-die 4200c14 , 0.1%LOW's and 1%LOW's its hard to beat here

 

[Mussels]

One guy I know tested tweaked M-die 7200 vs A-die 8000 on 13900K. They performed about udentical as M-die can run timings a bit tighter and the BW is already massive. On DDR4 it will make a larger impact going from 3600 to 4000 as BW is limited

That's likely the key - once you pass a certain bandwidth it doesnt help, and only lower latency will help

2x16 DR B-die 4200c14 , 0.1%LOW's and 1%LOW's its hard to beat here

AMD's x3D lineup says hello there

(But yeah that's some damned fast ram)

 

[chrcoluk]

2x16 DR B-die 4200c14 , 0.1%LOW's and 1%LOW's its hard to beat here

What have you seen achieved in 4 dimm configurations? sadly most people still seem to only use 2 dimms. Mine is four 8 gig dimms.

 

[opheen]

What have you seen achieved in 4 dimm configurations? sadly most people still seem to only use 2 dimms. Mine is four 8 gig dimms.

its 2 x 16GB on Msi Pro z690-A DDR4 2 DCP \ 4DIMM board . Seen 4133 c15 Gear1 CommandRate 1T with 4x8GB on 4dimm Msi \Asrock board , pretty sure it is possible to go higher!. Gigabyte B660 - z690\B760 - z790 DDR4 boards is broken, they struggle with running DualRank in Gear 1 above 3800 slightly better with SingleRank. Asus DDR4 board doesn't like 4dimm's but they are rly good with 2 dimm's

That's likely the key - once you pass a certain bandwidth it doesnt help, and only lower latency will help


AMD's x3D lineup says hello there

(But yeah that's some damned fast ram)

AMD X3D cpu's performing rly good! Release a product they where done producing yesterday is concerning .

 

[Mussels]

@Taraquin you should do some testing and find out what MT/s speed is where your GPU maxes out, and then see the same for latency values

I get the feeling latency improvements will always help 0.1% FPS unless its a 3D chip, where bandwidth will have a ceiling it just doesnt matter beyond, per GPU

 

[Cowboystrekk]

@Taraquin you should do some testing and find out what MT/s speed is where your GPU maxes out, and then see the same for latency values

I get the feeling latency improvements will always help 0.1% FPS unless its a 3D chip, where bandwidth will have a ceiling it just doesnt matter beyond, per GPU

If I use dlss I can make most games CPU-bound. Dunno about BW. Tips on how to test?

 

[nomdeplume]

What have you seen achieved in 4 dimm configurations? sadly most people still seem to only use 2 dimms. Mine is four 8 gig dimms.

Been thinking about this comment for a few days now. Especially pertaining to DDR4 vs. DDR5 gaming performance. Chances are fairly decent DDR4 is performing nearly at it's peak and that DDR5 has not come close to realizing full potential. Also fair to say (Asus) some mobo focus on stability and usability over pushing limits except on their dedicated two DIMM OC'ing board.

Generally speaking, is there an established trend showing better in game performance after populating all four DIMM with one or both gen? Is it dependent on board or RAM channel (single/dual/quad)?