Decompilation or Disassembly Prohibited?

[Black Panther]

This is about my pc at work, I built it myself.

It had only 4GB RAM and was giving me low memory warnings so I bought another stick to get a total of 8GB.

Thing is, after installing the RAM I get this message.

I need to find a quick solution because this pc is used as a server and everytime I shut it down I stall the entire network...

If I leave the RAM there I get stuck on the screen above and the pc doesn't load.

These are the system specs:

 

[kn00tcn]

does the new stick load on its own? (giving the chance that a single 8gb stick will work rather than 2 4gb)

edit: wait... what kind of self built machine gives such a message, you didnt even state where in the boot process it is, if it's the OS (that you probably dont control?) or the 'bios'

 

[the54thvoid]

Take the ram out?

Some PC's have tamper settings, things can be locked so people can't add hardware or make mods. Could there be a setting in BIOS for that, or is the message the initial boot display before BIOS?

 

[Black Panther]

does the new stick load on its own? (giving the chance that a single 8gb stick will work rather than 2 4gb)

I can't check that now. Have to find time after work or during the weekend. I can't afford to stall all the computers here to work on this unless it's a 2 minute job (like inserting new RAM and rebooting) and it works immediately

edit: wait... what kind of self built machine gives such a message, you didnt even state where in the boot process it is, if it's the OS (that you probably dont control?) or the 'bios'

The message is in the very first part of the boot process, before bios, the very first thing which pops up, before motherboard drivers and the rest of the stuff. I haven't checked it (and can't right now) but I'm 99.9% sure that pressing the 'del' key won't work to get me in the bios because absolutely nothing is loaded yet.

 

[kn00tcn]

oops, images werent loading for me earlier, what a strange colored intel text... how can you have built this!? is it not a machine you're responsible for after building? how can nobody at the company be in charge of this if you arent?

i'm going to assume the bios has settings, maybe a password, that you can change while the old stick is in

my single new stick idea IS a 2min job, you could even get an 8gb stick ready for testing in the hopes that it's counting how many slots are populated rather than the size (safest bet might be to match the frequency on the 8gb stick)

did you read the mobo manual?

also, low memory warnings mean nothing, are you ACTUALLY low on memory, thrashing to paging file, etc?

 

[Frick]

Reset the BIOS maybe?

 

[Caring1]

Take the ram out?

Some PC's have tamper settings, things can be locked so people can't add hardware or make mods. Could there be a setting in BIOS for that....?

Some motherboards have a jumper or two wires going to the motherboard for just that reason, to enable that warning.
It is usually clearly marked.

 

[Aquinus]

I need to find a quick solution because this pc is used as a server and everytime I shut it down I stall the entire network...

Take the extra stick of memory out and don't screw with it until you have a machine to take its place or time when no one is using the network to do it.

 

[Black Panther]

oops, images werent loading for me earlier, what a strange colored intel text... how can you have built this!? is it not a machine you're responsible for after building? how can nobody at the company be in charge of this if you arent?

Not sure if I get what you mean...

Yes the intel text is funny... it doesn't load like that when using only the previous 4GB RAM rather than 2 sticks x 4GB.

I'm responsible for the pc's here, I mean, the business is mine and though I do the general running of the business I also do the tech work myself rather than employ somebody to do it.

Some motherboards have a jumper or two wires going to the motherboard for just that reason, to enable that warning.
It is usually clearly marked.

Thanks, I had no clue about that but it makes a lot of sense. I'll be checking it out.

I had built it 4 years ago... never touched anything except to clean it (obviously):

 

[kn00tcn]

edit: boy.. empty case, waste of space, overkill psu that would result in wasted wattage (heat/electricity cost) at all times
( http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11123/cold1.png in this example, if the system uses 100w, the 450w psu wastes 9.8watts, while the 850w psu wastes 14.2watts... i guess not the biggest deal)

Not sure if I get what you mean...

if you built this & set it up, how can such a feature be turned on? how would it know 4gb is the correct amount rather than 2gb, who told it what the untampered hardware is?

unless the mobo defaults to some kind of 'the first time it boots, it will store the hardware list & consider any changes as tampers' that you happened to not notice in the bios settings or manual when it was built

 

[Aquinus]

Are you sure that it's not just crashing on boot and that the new stick might just be causing issues?

 

[R-T-B]

That's a generic message telling you not to reverse engineer the bios.

You appear to be freezing on the basic text bios screen. The one you usually never see, because when a bios posts correctly it would do some kind of GUI splash.

In short, I don't think it likes your ram.

Are you sure that it's not just crashing on boot and that the new stick might just be causing issues?

You sir just hit the nail on the head.

 

[jboydgolfer]

Have you tried kicking it yet?

You sir just hit the nail on the head.

Yessir i agree

 

[kn00tcn]

oh hah, i didnt even think it would freeze.. but OP mentioned the same text without the colors is there normally, which means the prohibited line would not be there? a splash wouldnt be covering it

 

[Aquinus]

oh hah, i didnt even think it would freeze.. but OP mentioned the same text without the colors is there normally, which means the prohibited line would not be there? a splash wouldnt be covering it

The OP might be talking about the normal BIOS, this (the screenshot text,) is from the VGA BIOS being displayed not the normal BIOS. The OP might never see the VGA BIOS unless something like this happens.

 

[jboydgolfer]

A solution for this exact problem in another form was listed as removing and replacing the motherboard CMOS battery. although it is a VGA splash screen

 

[Black Panther]

The OP might be talking about the normal BIOS, this (the screenshot text,) is from the VGA BIOS being displayed not the normal BIOS. The OP might never see the VGA BIOS unless something like this happens.

That's it. Normally when I arrive at work the pc would already be powered on, but iirc when it starts up it usually displays no text, just the ASUS splash screen.

 

[newtekie1]

That's it. Normally when I arrive at work the pc would already be powered on, but iirc when it starts up it usually displays no text, just the ASUS splash screen.

Seems like it is crashing at the VGA BIOS initialization. This usually pops up so fast you might not have ever seen it before, or it came up before the LCD monitor even wakes from sleep.

The new stick is either defective and unstable, or the RAM settings in the BIOS aren't compatible with the new stick of memory. I'd suggest booting with just the old stick, and going into the BIOS and changing anything RAM related back to auto.

overkill psu that would result in wasted wattage (heat/electricity cost) at all times

I'm amazed at the number of people that think this makes a big difference when it really doesn't. Plus, if they were really concerned about it, they would have picked a PSU that is at least 80+ certified.

 

[Black Panther]

edit: boy.. empty case, waste of space, overkill psu that would result in wasted wattage (heat/electricity cost) at all times
( http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11123/cold1.png in this example, if the system uses 100w, the 450w psu wastes 9.8watts, while the 850w psu wastes 14.2watts... i guess not the biggest deal)

Umm, this system doesn't have a 850W PSU... it's only 500W iirc and at any rate nowadays it's hard to find smaller PSU's without compromising the system's stability. Doesn't the PSU output whatever the components need? If the tower needs 100W it will get 100W whether powered by a 450W or a 1200W PSU. Afaik the extra 'wastage' of power is extremely minimal.

Case is large I know, purchased it like that because I prefer being comfortable working in a large case rather than cramping everything inside a mini case and further to that its ventilation is great.

 

[qubit]

The message is in the very first part of the boot process, before bios, the very first thing which pops up, before motherboard drivers and the rest of the stuff. I haven't checked it (and can't right now) but I'm 99.9% sure that pressing the 'del' key won't work to get me in the bios because absolutely nothing is loaded yet.

I've never seen this before either, but it sounds like a security feature. Have you tried running the new stick on its own?

Also, since this PC is so critical to your business, I think you should consider a second one in a failover configuration. Might cost you a bit of money, but how much could extended downtime cost you?

And of course, make sure all your data is backed up!

 

[FireFox]

but it sounds like a security feature

I don't have any experience with that kind of error but searching on Internet it says the same thing you said.

A solution for this exact problem in another form was listed as removing and replacing the motherboard CMOS battery.

That's another solution suggested too.

 

[Black Panther]

I've never seen this before either, but it sounds like a security feature.

I never heard of this either. To be honest I might have expected it from a prebuilt but not one which I assembled myself?
I did build this pc in a hurry, I had just done 3 in a row, assembled my own, a gaming system for my brother, and then this one. I remember checking the motherboard manual only to make sure that I got those tiny cables at the bottom of the motherboard (front panel wiring for power-on etc etc) correct on the first try.
The system worked immediately, I installed Windows, drivers and all was fine.

Have you tried running the new stick on its own?

Not yet.

I had wanted to upgrade the RAM for quite some time, so I had purchased 4 x 4GB Geil Black Dragon RAM, put 3 of them to replace my personal gaming system (it's triple channel) and planned to use the other 4GB to pair it up with the 4GB (value Corsair or whatever it had been) that I had put in this work server 4 years ago.

I had been getting low memory warnings ever since we upgraded to Win 10. Then during the past months it started to occasionally crash some time after the low memory warning.

This morning right before I started this thread, it had just crashed and I thought that it was the right time to quickly pop in the new 4GB stick and hopefully solve the problem once and for all. Since it would take that couple of minutes to reboot I might as well shut it down and insert the RAM instead.
But unfortunately things went strange.

Also, since this PC is so critical to your business, I think you should consider a second one in a failover configuration. Might cost you a bit of money, but how much could extended downtime cost you?

Though that sounds great it's not practical for us. Downtime wouldn't cost much since we can keep manual records temporarily but it's extremely inconvenient.

We have software installed which takes care of all the running of the company, from invoicing, stocks, payments to employee wages and commissions.
We pay yearly for the licence and for tech support, but the latter is only limited to support concerning direct failure of our accounting program.

To avoid piracy, one of the conditions is that our accounting program must always be installed by them. And unless it's an obvious problem with the software itself, we'd have to fork out like €250 for each installation.
Obviously they are bound to come within minutes to keep us working, even when the problem is not a software one but then we'd get charged.
So it's not worth having a spare pc just in case because if anything happens they'll come over and we'd be charged just the same, spare pc or not.

So I cannot just play around and experiment with this computer - like I cannot do a Win 10 refresh just in case to see if the RAM will work, because that'd mean a bill of €250. I cannot risk anything which might stop the accounting software from working, because every time that happens we'd be slapped with a €250 bill or perhaps less if the problem doesn't need a reinstallation, but still.
For example sometimes the software doesn't start because the computer doesn't start a particular service if we click on the program very quickly just after it loaded, but I know how to go into services and force it to start. Hadn't I figured it out I'd have to call them whenever it happens and get billed for it.

Seems like it is crashing at the VGA BIOS initialization. This usually pops up so fast you might not have ever seen it before, or it came up before the LCD monitor even wakes from sleep.

The new stick is either defective and unstable, or the RAM settings in the BIOS aren't compatible with the new stick of memory. I'd suggest booting with just the old stick, and going into the BIOS and changing anything RAM related back to auto.

Everything in the bios has always been on auto/default.

 

[FireFox]

To be honest I might have expected it from a prebuilt but not one which I assembled myself?

It can happen to anyone

 

[newtekie1]

Umm, this system doesn't have a 850W PSU... it's only 500W iirc and at any rate nowadays it's hard to find smaller PSU's without compromising the system's stability. Doesn't the PSU output whatever the components need? If the tower needs 100W it will get 100W whether powered by a 450W or a 1200W PSU. Afaik the extra 'wastage' of power is extremely minimal.

Not exactly. Power supplies tend to loose efficiency at lower loads. They are most efficient usually around 50% load. The further away from 50% they get the lower their efficiency.

So lets say you have a computer that uses ~50w sitting at idle. In reality most modern computers without a dedicated GPU use a lot less than that, but for simplicity lets say 50w at idle. And you use two different power supplies with that same computer, one a 500w and the other a 1000w. Lets also say that both units are 75% efficient at 10% load. For the 500w unit, 50w is 10% load, so the when the computer is sitting idle, the efficiency will be 75%. So you will actually be pulling ~66.6w from the wall with the 500w unit.

However, with the 1000w unit, 50w is only 5% load. The efficiency of a unit is lower at 5% than at 10%, so the efficiency of the 1000w unit at 50w load might only be 70%. So that means with the 1000w unit, the amount of power drawn from the wall at 50w load is actually 71.4w.

So having the bigger unit would cause the computer to draw an extra 4.8w from the wall. Is that a big difference? No, not really. Over the course of a year, in my area with my power rates, that amounts to just about $5 extra in electricity costs. Not anything I, or most people, would likely be concerned about. But some people like to make a big deal out of it, just like they like to make a big deal out of the difference between an 80+ Bronze and 80+ Gold/Platinum like the difference will pay for your computer or something when it likely won't even pay for the difference in price between the units...

I never heard of this either. To be honest I might have expected it from a prebuilt but not one which I assembled myself?

It isn't really a security feature in anyway. It is really just a Copyright notice saying you aren't allowed to tinker with the BIOS. Intel is telling you you can't dump the video BIOS and change it or try to decompile it or anything. It probably says that every time the computer boots, but you usually don't see it because the monitor isn't on when it comes up, and it comes up and goes aways so quickly it is gone by the time the monitor comes out of sleep. But now the computer is locking up on that screen so you see it.

We need to forget about the message, it has nothing to do with the problem. We need figure out why the computer is locking up.

 

[natr0n]

Clear the bios.