Diagnosing heating and power issues with retro GPU (X850 XT PE)

[xtreger]

Hi! I got a hold of an X850 XT Platinum Edition GPU. I'm using an Asus P5PKL-AM/PS motherboard with a Pentium dual core CPU.

Initially I had a 450W PSU with 4 leads - 1st lead is 20+4 connector, 2nd is a 4-pin connector, and leads 3 and 4 each have a SATA and a molex connector. I tried only testing the GPU first without any other IDE/SATA connections, so I plugged in leads 1 and 2, and plugged molex connectors from leads 3 & 4 into the GPU's dual molex to 6 pin connector (see here: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YccAAOSw93JlQNp8/s-l1600.jpg). The GPU was artifacting heavily. A couple of times the POST screen didn't show up, and booting into a live linux usb caused complete screen corruption.

Then I tried a second PSU (250W) with 4 leads - 1st is a 20 pin connector (that I plugged into the mobo's 24 pin slot), 2nd a 4 pin connector, lead 3 has 2 molex, and lead 4 has 2 molex plus a floppy connector pin. Now with this, the GPU worked just fine - even completed the 3dmark01 SE test end-to-end. I tried 2 sound cards in this config, with one sound card, there was a single instance of artifacting on the post screen. Immediately I switched off and replaced with a second sound card - and in this config it's completely stable and no artifacts, even though lead 4 is connected to both the GPU and an IDE hard drive.

Here are specs of the two PSUs (first one is the problematic one, 2nd is stable):

http://imgur.com/a/YYlNYS3

Hope that gives a good enough context. I've seen two issues - in Everest I can see the GPU temperature is around 75-77 deg C range. Is that normal or should I do something about it?

Second issue is: how do I decide what's a proper PSU configuration? How many leads, what kind of connectors, and what voltage/current/power specs should it have (subject to the constraint that at least one floppy connector and 3 molex connectors should be there)?

Please let me know if any more info needed from my end

 

[QuietBob]

Either power supply may be too old to provide stable voltage. In addition, the 12V rail could be underpowered for your config. The Pentium Dual Core family is specced at 65 W, and the X850XT PE will consume a similar amount. Those units could deliver 180-190W on the 12V rail when new, and I imagine you've also got an HDD, case fans, etc. in your build.

I'd recommend getting a decent power supply with a native 6-pin PCIe connector for testing, with at least 20 A on the 12V rail.

 

[Desktopstu]

Ah the X850XT Plat Ed, i remember having one. As I recall these ran quite warm, the Platinum Edition is clocked as far as ATi felt they could go and it should be fitted with a pretty beefy cooler. As stated by Bob, good PSU is essential. Techpowerup librabry states the draw at 67w, i think I had something like a 450w Hipper PSU when I had mine, and I was running a Core2Duo set up at the time.

It does sound like its a juice problem.

 

[xtreger]

Ah the X850XT Plat Ed, i remember having one. As I recall these ran quite warm, the Platinum Edition is clocked as far as ATi felt they could go and it should be fitted with a pretty beefy cooler. As stated by Bob, good PSU is essential. Techpowerup librabry states the draw at 67w, i think I had something like a 450w Hipper PSU when I had mine, and I was running a Core2Duo set up at the time.

It does sound like its a juice problem.

Thanks!
Based on what I can understand, I'm thinking of getting this (though it has a 450 W variant too but the price difference is minimal): https://www.amazon.in/Ant-Esports-VS700L-NonM … y/dp/B0C3ZZQ28W

The specs are as follows: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/MEDIAX_84 … SX970_V1___.jpg

This one seems to have a dedicated PCI-e 6+2 connector - so I think the GPU should be covered, plus the max load for 12 V rail is 57 A. I'm thinking of connecting this to the GPU via the 6+2 PCIe pin, an SSD via a SATA pin, a CD drive via a molex pin, and a floppy drive via a molex pin (with molex to floppy power adapter).

Is this 700W PSU good enough for the purpose?

 

[LabRat 891]

If you don't understand the risks, DON'T
but
looks like you'd not be the first inside it.

Bloated/failed caps can cause some of these issues, regardless of rated wattage.
(learned w/ a TT Toughpower 750W, that a 'light load' on an 'aged-out' PSU is not 'fine')

Unstable 'dirty' power can make a card 'work harder*' (or, as you've seen: destabilize)
*sort of. more, power conversion efficiency plummets, dumping more heat into the PCB

Also, has the card ever been re-TIM'd? Paste is only good for so long. (Pads too).

Older cards are fine w/ MX-4, etc. but if you want to never ever worry about it again, some PTM or a carbon pad would be a good option for the core, and some flavor of putty for the RAM and VRMs, etc. (assuming you don't have access to a variety of affordable pads and thicknesses).


Lastly, I'd say to keep in mind that old-ATX spec was to have the PSU as main exhaust in a PC. If running your testing in an enclosed case, the PSU can drastically affect airflow.

 

[xtreger]

An update on this: I got a new PSU (https://antesports.com/product/ant-esports-vs450l-value-series-power-supply). Using the exact same setup with this new PSU, I'm getting weird horizontal lines on the screen. See here:

http://imgur.com/a/nTnQw8N

I'm a bit confused why this is. Because the supposedly old and primitive PSU I have (this one:

http://imgur.com/a/pTasDPB

) gives no problem with this setup - the screen is perfectly smooth and there's no flickering with it.

But with this new PSU, with its 450 W output and dedicated PCIe cable, I'm seeing the screen tearing as shown above. And it's not just for the X850 XT PE - I have a 7800 GTX as well and with that also I see this screen glitch. Is there some reliable way to figure out what kind of PSU wouldn't cause any headaches, or is it a trial-and-error process?

 

[wNotyarD]

An update on this: I got a new PSU (https://antesports.com/product/ant-esports-vs450l-value-series-power-supply). Using the exact same setup with this new PSU, I'm getting weird horizontal lines on the screen. See here:

http://imgur.com/a/nTnQw8N

I'm a bit confused why this is. Because the supposedly old and primitive PSU I have (this one:

http://imgur.com/a/pTasDPB

) gives no problem with this setup - the screen is perfectly smooth and there's no flickering with it.

But with this new PSU, with its 450 W output and dedicated PCIe cable, I'm seeing the screen tearing as shown above. And it's not just for the X850 XT PE - I have a 7800 GTX as well and with that also I see this screen glitch. Is there some reliable way to figure out what kind of PSU wouldn't cause any headaches, or is it a trial-and-error process?

While never in my life I've seen this PSU brand, it at least looks modern enough for such old hardware to not have issues. A thing I noticed: the website you gave us for your PSU doesn't even mention having one PCIe connector - the Amazon page for it does, however.
Speaking Amazon, the least I'd say I'd get on a budget (which if you weren't in you wouldn't get a INR 1745 unit) is the Gigabyte P450B (tier D on the PSU Cultists' list) and ideally stretching to the Deepcool PK450D (tier C). Yes, I know they are MUCH more expensive than the ANT you got, but the PSU is something you should never skimp on, even for a retro project.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, old ATX rigs (Athlon XP era) required some serious muscle on the PSU 5V rail. LGA 775 should be already focused on a strong 12V, though.

Assuming the power delivery is fine, you either have issues with both your graphics cards, with the slot, your cables or your screen. Assuming (again) your screen is fine, can you give both the slot and cable/plugs a thorough cleaning and test again?

 

[QuietBob]

The PSU you got is not what I'd consider "decent", but at least it's new and should be able to power your system without a problem. At this point we may assume that the issue is with the graphics cards themselves, or maybe the motherboard.

The X850XT PE and the 7800GTX are both vintage cards, from the year 2004 and 2005 respectively. Being high-powered high-end cards at one time, they must've seen heavy usage in their lifetime.

You could try the GPUs on a different motherboard, with just one stick of different RAM and the new PSU to see if the problems persist.

 

[xtreger]

While never in my life I've seen this PSU brand, it at least looks modern enough for such old hardware to not have issues. A thing I noticed: the website you gave us for your PSU doesn't even mention having one PCIe connector - the Amazon page for it does, however.
Speaking Amazon, the least I'd say I'd get on a budget (which if you weren't in you wouldn't get a INR 1745 unit) is the Gigabyte P450B (tier D on the PSU Cultists' list) and ideally stretching to the Deepcool PK450D (tier C). Yes, I know they are MUCH more expensive than the ANT you got, but the PSU is something you should never skimp on, even for a retro project.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, old ATX rigs (Athlon XP era) required some serious muscle on the PSU 5V rail. LGA 775 should be already focused on a strong 12V, though.

Assuming the power delivery is fine, you either have issues with both your graphics cards, with the slot, your cables or your screen. Assuming (again) your screen is fine, can you give both the slot and cable/plugs a thorough cleaning and test again?

The PSU you got is not what I'd consider "decent", but at least it's new and should be able to power your system without a problem. At this point we may assume that the issue is with the graphics cards themselves, or maybe the motherboard.

The X850XT PE and the 7800GTX are both vintage cards, from the year 2004 and 2005 respectively. Being high-powered high-end cards at one time, they must've seen heavy usage in their lifetime.

You could try the GPUs on a different motherboard, with just one stick of different RAM and the new PSU to see if the problems persist.

Thanks so much for the responses! The thing is that I tried with YET another PSU - 300W and it gives perfectly clear screen

http://imgur.com/a/QIim9xg

Sorry if I sound rude but I have doubts that both gfx cards are defective, especially since they give perfectly good output with the other 2 (old) PSUs. That'd have to be a massive coincidence.

So then I guess it'd be okay to conclude that the new PSU itself has issues? Maybe its PCIe slot is defective or something?

 

[wNotyarD]

Thanks so much for the responses! The thing is that I tried with YET another PSU - 300W and it gives perfectly clear screen

http://imgur.com/a/QIim9xg

Sorry if I sound rude but I have doubts that both gfx cards are defective, especially since they give perfectly good output with the other 2 (old) PSUs. That'd have to be a massive coincidence.

So then I guess it'd be okay to conclude that the new PSU itself has issues? Maybe its PCIe slot is defective or something?

Seeing that with other PSU's both your cards show no issues, for me it looks like your new PSU has something not right. While I can't point out what it is, this much seems logical. Maybe it has faulty filtering, either at the mains input or its output, something on these lines.
If you can return it and replace with another new one, it'd be great. If then with a replacement PSU it doesn't happen again, you just got unlucky with the first unit. If it does, though, I'd return it again and try getting something more well-known (either the Gigabyte or Deepcool I listed earlier). You can be sure no one in this forum will vouch for a ~US$20 PSU. Those I listed are around US$50 and are already a hard sell among many here.

 

[rockit00]

Hey @xtreger, back when I was modding my X850 Pro VIVO cards to XT PE cards I was using MGE XG Vortec 500w power supplies at the time. There are a couple of great reviews here at TPU on the Vortec 500's and the Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 4. I was also using the Pentium 4 500 and 600 series CPU's. I was using the ASUS Star Ice CPU cooler to keep the P4 571 and P4 672 CPU's Cool. Back then the question was " Can it play Far Cry?" I have fond memories of playing Far Cry in July in the mid-west with no air conditioning. With these rigs I never had an artifact or a crash or glitch!

 

[xtreger]

Hey @xtreger, back when I was modding my X850 Pro VIVO cards to XT PE cards I was using MGE XG Vortec 500w power supplies at the time. There are a couple of great reviews here at TPU on the Vortec 500's and the Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 4. I was also using the Pentium 4 500 and 600 series CPU's. I was using the ASUS Star Ice CPU cooler to keep the P4 571 and P4 672 CPU's Cool. Back then the question was " Can it play Far Cry?" I have fond memories of playing Far Cry in July in the mid-west with no air conditioning. With these rigs I never had an artifact or a crash or glitch!

Thanks man! Only problem is that that model (XG Vortec) isn't available in my country. With some patience I'm definitely looking to get Arctic ATI Silencer or a Zalman VGA cooler for the X850 XT PE.

Seeing that with other PSU's both your cards show no issues, for me it looks like your new PSU has something not right. While I can't point out what it is, this much seems logical. Maybe it has faulty filtering, either at the mains input or its output, something on these lines.
If you can return it and replace with another new one, it'd be great. If then with a replacement PSU it doesn't happen again, you just got unlucky with the first unit. If it does, though, I'd return it again and try getting something more well-known (either the Gigabyte or Deepcool I listed earlier). You can be sure no one in this forum will vouch for a ~US$20 PSU. Those I listed are around US$50 and are already a hard sell among many here.

I have the same thoughts. I have managed to get a replacement. Worst case I'll get the Gigabyte PSU (thanks for the recommendation) since that has a floppy connector as well

 

[rockit00]

Yes unfortunately MGE tanked back around 2006 or 2007. They were bought out by ? and their XG Vortec line hit rock bottom. If you live in Europe you might want to look out for the AsRock Conroe865PE. They weren't released in the USA. I had to order them from the UK or Australia. They were very popular motherboards back during the switch from AGP to PCIe days. Good overclockers too! Also a good vintage CPU cooler was the Thermaltake Beetle. Its parts were interchangeable with the ASUS Star Ice. Those were the Days!

 

[Redwoodz]

https://www.amazon.in/Fingers-BlackBox-500-Efficiency-Supply-SMPS/dp/B08ZYNVJVL/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

maybe ok?

 

[rockit00]

Another great piece of vintage hardware from 2006-2008 days was the Visiontek 450WJBR1 AUX power supply. This baby fit into a 5.25" drive bay on your PC case. It was silent and was meant to power your GPU and extra lights, fans, etc. It powered on when you powered your system on and was connected to your main power supply. I was using the XG Vortec 600W series PSU's back then. I had a DFI LANparty UT X48-T2R and an Abit IX38 Quad GT system and a Xeon X3380 Quad CPU in each system. The Xeon X3380's would overclock to 4.0GHz if you were lottery lucky. I was using a Sapphire HD 6950 Toxic ( bios switched to HD 6970) in each rig. So I decided to be safe and use the Visiontek 450's to insure I had enough power ( total 1050w) for each rig. The crazy thing about the Visiontek Juice Box 450W was that back in 2011-2012 you could get one for about $20. on NewEgg!