• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Do you think cryptocurrencies are the future?

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,732 (3.41/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
Most people today seem to be in the "crypto is only viable for investment, not mining" boat, which makes crypto for all intents and purposes no different whatsoever than buying stock or bonds or any other item with a mutually agreed-upon value. And, again, considering that this immediately means the "market" will be controlled by risk-averse, greedy, gambling addicted financiers (seriously, you know of shorting and all the other actual, indisputable bets they rely on to make money, right?), which again means that you have zero control. Again: this is gambling.

I don't understand this group. Sure you can invest and play the market, but you can also instead of investing say $500 in crypto directly, you could instead buy a GTX1070 and mine. Sure, it'll take about 9 months at the current rate to hit ROI (and this of course can go up or down). But then, you'll be in the black, and you can play the trading game all you want with what you earn from it, and the card continues to mine and earn more.

I suppose the idea behind that is it's quicker to earn just playing the trading game... but I chose the long road, I guess. The trading game is also riskier, I think. Even if the market devalues, you can still mine and earn something...
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Without the traders, the miners have no one to sell to.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.23/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
I don't understand this group. Sure you can invest and play the market, but you can also instead of investing say $500 in crypto directly, you could instead buy a GTX1070 and mine. Sure, it'll take about 9 months at the current rate to hit ROI (and this of course can go up or down). But then, you'll be in the black, and you can play the trading game all you want with what you earn from it, and the card continues to mine and earn more.

I suppose the idea behind that is it's quicker to earn just playing the trading game... but I chose the long road, I guess. The trading game is also riskier, I think. Even if the market devalues, you can still mine and earn something...

late last summer i spent about £4000 building a mining machine.. at the time that amount would have bought me one whole bitcoin.. i am over my return on investment just about but hindsight still tells i would have been better off buying the bitcoin..

but as you say my miner is still earning and will probably keep doing so for some time to come.. my 10 x 1070 cards are currently at $15 dollars per day.. less the leccy of course..

i am still one of those people that expect the crypto price to start going up again.. rightly or wrongly i am still a hodler.. he he..

trog
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
late last summer i spent about £4000 building a mining machine.. at the time that amount would have bought me one whole bitcoin.. i am over my return on investment just about but hindsight still tells i would have been better off buying the bitcoin..

but as you say my miner is still earning and will probably keep doing so for some time to come.. my 10 x 1070 cards are currently at $15 dollars per day.. less the leccy of course..

i am still one of those people that expect the crypto price to start going up again.. rightly or wrongly i am still a hodler.. he he..

trog

You are seriously missing out... how in the world could 10 1070's only make 15$ per day? You should be making $20 minimum right now.
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
9,105 (1.30/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
You are seriously missing out... how in the world could 10 1070's only make 15$ per day? You should be making $20 minimum right now.
Probably due to UK Electricity Prices Per Kwh Being expensive
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
Probably due to UK Electricity Prices Per Kwh Being expensive

I'd think so, except he said it was $15 per day minus electricity. He should be grossing at least $20 per day. (Then again, I'm assuming he means USD... no idea on conversions, so that may be my confusion, if he's talking about another currency.)
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
9,105 (1.30/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
US Dollar to British Pound Sterling currency exchange rates

15 USD = 11.2604 GBP
15 GBP = 19.9816 USD


well he may be just converting wrong :) he will have to enlighten us
He may also be quoting in $$$ as he may think its easier to quote $$$ So Americans understand Better
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.30/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Declining for the foreseeable future but can't rule out the possibility of another round of manipulation. There may be another bubble in the future but it won't be as big. Most people are familiar enough with the concept of cryptocurrencies to know the risks. Ignorance drove the dot-com bubble and the cryptocurrency bubble. In both cases, there was a specific example after the fact to point to and say, "this has happened before." It tampers expectations greatly.


So was the dot-com industry. Bubbles form when the public at large get ensnared in it. That's exactly what happened to cryptocurrencies. You could argue that dot-com bubble and burst took years rather than months. I would retort that extreme volatility isn't in NASDAQ's nature like cryptocurrencies. Money tends to move between shares rather than into and out of the market entirely like cryptocurrencies.
the dot com bubble didnt ever burst its kept growing?? facebook google and amazon are just the biggest companies in the world after all and still new companies have room to grow, just a bad analogy and very arguable, and the this has happened before scenario(bubble) already happened twice to bitcoin ??, i wouldnt count out another, I've told anyone who asks me this.

the markets a rollercoaster till mid to late july then its going to steadily increase upto december, that's what i think and still it's not dying, neither is mining.

i think i saw a coin debut on crytocompare at something like 2,333,000 ea earlier today with a market cap of 20 billion after a minute, again i wish i had just one of those at that minute ,doh.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
the dot com bubble didnt ever burst its kept growing??
Most of the companies responsible for the bubble went under or merged. NASDAQ at large did and other tech companies emerged from the rubble and kept growing. There was never a second dot-com bubble.


facebook google and amazon are just the biggest companies in the world after all and still new companies have room to grow, just a bad analogy and very arguable, and the this has happened before scenario(bubble) already happened twice to bitcoin ??, i wouldnt count out another, I've told anyone who asks me this.
Of the three, Apple is the highest on Fortune 500 in fourth place. These are companies that have a lot of mindshare (high market cap) but they're not a critical part of the US economy, nevermind the world.

Bubbles require public interest to form (a huge influx of low-knowledge traders). The two events you're talking about were caused by internal struggles in the market. Bubbles...real bubbles...only happen once per sector because the bubble itself informs the public (huge media coverage and huge scare when it bursts).


i think i saw a coin debut on crytocompare at something like 2,333,000 ea earlier today with a market cap of 20 billion after a minute, again i wish i had just one of those at that minute ,doh.
Probably a glitch.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
To use the dot com bubble as a reason to believe that crypto will die is to ignore the fact that AFTER the dot com bubble burst, and all the snake oil and ghost products were weeded out, the IT sector had massive and stable growth to become one of the most important business sectors on the planet.

If you're going to use the dot com bubble example, don't ignore the post-2005 side of the graph. Because if we're saying that the crypto bubble is just like the dot com bubble and will behave the same way, then we're saying that in the next 10-15 years, crypto will enjoy huge and stable growth.

Pretty convincing argument you've got there.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,811 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11
I feel like "bubble" has become Ford's latest buzzword, honestly.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.30/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Most of the companies responsible for the bubble went under or merged. NASDAQ at large did and other tech companies emerged from the rubble and kept growing. There was never a second dot-com bubble.



Of the three, Apple is the highest on Fortune 500 in fourth place. These are companies that have a lot of mindshare (high market cap) but they're not a critical part of the US economy, nevermind the world.

Bubbles require public interest to form (a huge influx of low-knowledge traders). The two events you're talking about were caused by internal struggles in the market. Bubbles...real bubbles...only happen once per sector because the bubble itself informs the public (huge media coverage and huge scare when it bursts).



Probably a glitch.
I did think it was a glitch ,i have'nt bought one ,cant even remember the name.

bubble whatever, i just disagree , the .com bubble ended up with a fair few corpses but those that weathered did better then your insinuating and it is still not fitting to me as an example , it fits in some regards but not on the whole.

" Bubbles...real bubbles...only happen once per sector because the bubble itself informs the public (huge media coverage and huge scare when it bursts)."

i don't share that opinion as being definitive ,that's the typical expected path perhaps but not definitive , what Big scare was there?.

the many hacks etc, they have'nt dented the crypto economy, as much as the same, in fiat land would, imho.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.23/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
i am mining eth like i mostly have been.. currently my 10 x 1070 at just over 30 mhs a piece just over 300 in total are showing just under $15 US dollars per day.. pretty much what i expect them to..

nicehash shows about the same.. maybe i should be mining something else.. i dont swap about just keep mining eth..

so if some folks think i am doing something wrong (there is fair difference between 15 dollars US and 20 dollars US) please tell me what i am doing wrong.. he he

this is as i said before minus electricity costs..

i eagerly await whatever information there is that will turn my 15 dollars US into 20 dollars US..

i talk in US dollars because most folks on here think in US dollars.. in fact where crypto is concerned so do i.. :)

trog

ps.. actually my round figure of 15 US dollars per day was very generous.. its currently nearer 13 US dollars per day.. and i am still waiting.. :)
 
Last edited:

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
To use the dot com bubble as a reason to believe that crypto will die is to ignore the fact that AFTER the dot com bubble burst, and all the snake oil and ghost products were weeded out, the IT sector had massive and stable growth to become one of the most important business sectors on the planet.
And what gives you the impression a purely speculative market like cryptocurrencies could ever achieve any notion of stability? IT had products and services to sell. All cryptocurrencies have is demand for itself.

i don't share that opinion as being definitive ,that's the typical expected path perhaps but not definitive , what Big scare was there?.
Regulation of Bitcoin Will Cause the Bubble to Burst

Article dated January 22, 2018. That was absolutely the case.
Once Bitcoin is regulated, much of the attraction stemming from its decentralized nature as well as independence from governments, central banks, fiat currencies, and the traditional banking monopoly will evaporate. That, along with its lack of utility, inability to be objectively valued, and failure to become a widely accepted currency, will bring the bubble to a sharp and savage end.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
And what gives you the impression a purely speculative market like cryptocurrencies could ever achieve any notion of stability? IT had products and services to sell. All cryptocurrencies have is demand for itself.

That's because you have no imagination. Crypto has plenty of utility. Even if it didn't, a US dollar isn't a product or service either, and yet is valuable.

Obviously this conversation is going to go round and round in circles, because at this point you're going to go back to "US dollar has something backing it and crypto doesn't." Then I'll say "Yes, it has the people investing in it backing it, same as the US dollar" and we'll start this whole thing over.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.03/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
That's because you have no imagination. Crypto has plenty of utility.
Cryptocurrency evangelists keep saying this, yet I've still not seen a single actually useful application of this tech outside of cryptocurrencies. Cryptography is massively useful, but in no way new. Open, distributed ledgers are kinda-sorta new, but only really the "open" part. And so on. Do you have any examples? If not, at least I'm going to keep my skepticism. I'll gladly be proven wrong, but can't say that seems likely for now.

Even if it didn't, a US dollar isn't a product or service either, and yet is valuable.

Obviously this conversation is going to go round and round in circles, because at this point you're going to go back to "US dollar has something backing it and crypto doesn't." Then I'll say "Yes, it has the people investing in it backing it, same as the US dollar" and we'll start this whole thing over.
You kind of have a point here, but there are some major differences. The US Dollar is a bad example, though, as it's the most-used and most accepted currency out there. Let's compare Bitcoin to something smaller and more comparable: the Norwegian Krone.

-The NOK has ~5 million people "accepting" it as their default means of quantifying value, and for everyday transactions of various kinds. BTC probably has far more people involved than that, but roughly zero of those rely on it entirely, or even for the majority of things they use money for.
-The NOK has the support of a country, its government, and thus any and all business conducted inside of and out of that country shores up its value. BTC has a heap of hobbyists, a few companies, and another minor heap of investment bankers (read: gambling addicts putting money into pretty much anything that might score them a win, but who also cut their losses and run for the hills at the first sign of danger).
-For scale: On the 21st of December 2015, there were 24 411 085 digital payment transactions processed in Norway, of which the vast majority were in NOK (yeah, we're a largely cashless country). At the time, that was a new record - it's probably been beaten by now. BTC has yet to reach 450 000 transactions in any single day.
-Comparing total value is tricky, as the total value of a currency is meaningless, but as BTC isn't really treated as a currency (which makes sense, as it's barely accepted as one anywhere) but rather as a tradeable good with its value defined by the market. As such, the most meaningful comparison for me (who knows next to nothing about macroeconomics or finance, that is) is GDP (as the NOK is a national currency) vs. market capitalization. The GDP of Norway in 2017 was 3'299'005'000'000 NOK (~404'787'913'500 USD). The current market cap of BTC is 127'275'455'176 USD.
-Of course, the GDP of a country is a far more stable and predictable amount than a market cap, which is entirely dependent upon the whims of the herd of semi-panicked animals that investment bankers often resemble. As such, the NOK is a far more stable and reliable entity compared to BTC (even if the relation between GDP and currency is loose at best, and a whole host of other factors impact it more directly (such as the price of oil, in our case)).

In other words: on a global economic scale, BTC is a flyspeck. Its market cap is quite large, but as a currency, it's barely used at all. Its primary purpose used to be storing value, but now that has turned more towards gambling on that value increasing. It's essentially useless for trading and exchange, and both expensive and massively impractical. While the distributed ledger system theoretically gives it some advantages compared to centralized currencies, those are entirely negated by the fact that its value is essentially determined by coked-up Wall Streeters. In addition to this, the "creation" of whatever unit of cryptocurrency you choose is reliant upon burning energy for no practical reason whatsoever (outside of generating this potentially valuable, potentially not "currency") and thus causing massive pollution in the process. I really don't see many advantages to this, truth be told.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
Cryptocurrency evangelists keep saying this, yet I've still not seen a single actually useful application of this tech outside of cryptocurrencies. Cryptography is massively useful, but in no way new. Open, distributed ledgers are kinda-sorta new, but only really the "open" part. And so on. Do you have any examples? If not, at least I'm going to keep my skepticism. I'll gladly be proven wrong, but can't say that seems likely for now.


You kind of have a point here, but there are some major differences. The US Dollar is a bad example, though, as it's the most-used and most accepted currency out there. Let's compare Bitcoin to something smaller and more comparable: the Norwegian Krone.

-The NOK has ~5 million people "accepting" it as their default means of quantifying value, and for everyday transactions of various kinds. BTC probably has far more people involved than that, but roughly zero of those rely on it entirely, or even for the majority of things they use money for.
-The NOK has the support of a country, its government, and thus any and all business conducted inside of and out of that country shores up its value. BTC has a heap of hobbyists, a few companies, and another minor heap of investment bankers (read: gambling addicts putting money into pretty much anything that might score them a win, but who also cut their losses and run for the hills at the first sign of danger).
-For scale: On the 21st of December 2015, there were 24 411 085 digital payment transactions processed in Norway, of which the vast majority were in NOK (yeah, we're a largely cashless country). At the time, that was a new record - it's probably been beaten by now. BTC has yet to reach 450 000 transactions in any single day.
-Comparing total value is tricky, as the total value of a currency is meaningless, but as BTC isn't really treated as a currency (which makes sense, as it's barely accepted as one anywhere) but rather as a tradeable good with its value defined by the market. As such, the most meaningful comparison for me (who knows next to nothing about macroeconomics or finance, that is) is GDP (as the NOK is a national currency) vs. market capitalization. The GDP of Norway in 2017 was 3'299'005'000'000 NOK (~404'787'913'500 USD). The current market cap of BTC is 127'275'455'176 USD.
-Of course, the GDP of a country is a far more stable and predictable amount than a market cap, which is entirely dependent upon the whims of the herd of semi-panicked animals that investment bankers often resemble. As such, the NOK is a far more stable and reliable entity compared to BTC (even if the relation between GDP and currency is loose at best, and a whole host of other factors impact it more directly (such as the price of oil, in our case)).

In other words: on a global economic scale, BTC is a flyspeck. Its market cap is quite large, but as a currency, it's barely used at all. Its primary purpose used to be storing value, but now that has turned more towards gambling on that value increasing. It's essentially useless for trading and exchange, and both expensive and massively impractical. While the distributed ledger system theoretically gives it some advantages compared to centralized currencies, those are entirely negated by the fact that its value is essentially determined by coked-up Wall Streeters. In addition to this, the "creation" of whatever unit of cryptocurrency you choose is reliant upon burning energy for no practical reason whatsoever (outside of generating this potentially valuable, potentially not "currency") and thus causing massive pollution in the process. I really don't see many advantages to this, truth be told.


Aaand there we are, back to page 2 of the thread.

Called it.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.03/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Aaand there we are, back to page 2 of the thread.

Called it.
Hmm. It's almost like this was the topic of the discussion. Hm. Let me check.
crypto.PNG

Yep, that looks right to me.

Or are you having issues with people questioning the foundations of your convictions? Oh dear, so sorry about that, that's really too bad. I'll stop right away, of course. One should never, ever question one's convictions. That's horrible.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.62/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Even if it didn't, a US dollar isn't a product or service either, and yet is valuable.
It is a product (commodity) and service (the entire US financial industry which is 13% of the US economy as of 2002).
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
Hmm. It's almost like this was the topic of the discussion. Hm. Let me check.
View attachment 102093
Yep, that looks right to me.

Or are you having issues with people questioning the foundations of your convictions? Oh dear, so sorry about that, that's really too bad. I'll stop right away, of course. One should never, ever question one's convictions. That's horrible.

I said nothing of the sort. I said we've already been through this, in this and other threads.

It is a product (commodity) and service (the entire US financial industry which is 13% of the US economy as of 2002).

Ok that's fine, but by that logic, then so is crypto, and its associated services and products.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.03/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
I said nothing of the sort. I said we've already been through this, in this and other threads.
Well, it's still the topic up for discussion here, unless language has suddenly lost all meaning. If you have issues with people staying on topic, that's on you. Apparently you see this discussion as "finished" somehow, yet I've not seen anything to indicate that. If you're tired of having to defend your convictions, that's understandable, but also not an excuse to end the discussion.
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
9,105 (1.30/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
It is a product (commodity) and service (the entire US financial industry which is 13% of the US economy as of 2002).

Of Course it is
Simple irrefutable Fact :)
Many people including Some Nation states will go to great lengths to produce Forgarys /fakes ect because its a Real Product that can be handled copied and reproduced and passed on

CAN that be Said of ...............
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,778 (0.32/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard AsRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX/AX
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) ASRock Radeon RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming D
Case Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
Well, it's still the topic up for discussion here, unless language has suddenly lost all meaning. If you have issues with people staying on topic, that's on you. Apparently you see this discussion as "finished" somehow, yet I've not seen anything to indicate that. If you're tired of having to defend your convictions, that's understandable, but also not an excuse to end the discussion.

I agree completely. You're free to discuss as you please. I don't see the discussion as finished at all. But you quoted me directly, right after I had said that we were going to go back to the beginning of the conversation. I simply said that I was correct in the assumption. There doesn't seem to be much point in rehashing the same arguments over and over again is all I'm saying.

i am mining eth like i mostly have been.. currently my 10 x 1070 at just over 30 mhs a piece just over 300 in total are showing just under $15 US dollars per day.. pretty much what i expect them to..
nicehash shows about the same.. maybe i should be mining something else.. i dont swap about just keep mining eth..
so if some folks think i am doing something wrong (there is fair difference between 15 dollars US and 20 dollars US) please tell me what i am doing wrong.. he he
this is as i said before minus electricity costs..
i eagerly await whatever information there is that will turn my 15 dollars US into 20 dollars US..
i talk in US dollars because most folks on here think in US dollars.. in fact where crypto is concerned so do i.. :)
trog
ps.. actually my round figure of 15 US dollars per day was very generous.. its currently nearer 13 US dollars per day.. and i am still waiting.. :)

I see. You're just mining ether. I would recommend going back to Nicehash, if you can stomach using them again after the hack. A 1070 should gross at least $2 per day on average. (Nevermind what the profitability calculator on their website says.) Or just mine Zcash or Bitcoin Cash instead.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
3,984 (1.19/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
Cryptocurrency evangelists keep saying this, yet I've still not seen a single actually useful application of this tech outside of cryptocurrencies.

Have you ever tried to send money internationally?
 

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,732 (3.41/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
Both my 1070s are currently mining Lyra2REv2, 68.454MH/s combined, for .43499BTC/day or $3.32USD/day. That's $1.66 each.

If I could be making $4/day instead of $3.32/day I'd like to know how... heh.

That said, my trusty box fan quit working on me. I've had it blowing air in the side of my case for about a year now. Looks like next time I go to wal-mart I'm also grabbing a fan...

A long term dream of mine is to have a rack/open air miner kinda like @trog100 has in my garage or basement or something... preferably garage. Unfortunately I have none of those things, and a garage would mean I'd also have a mortgage... ouch!
 
Top