Does a bigger case actually run quieter if you’re using the same number of fans?

[QuestionAsker]

For my silent-focused, air-cooled music production PC I'm building:

I’m debating between two cases — the Fractal Define 7 and the Define 7 XL — and I keep seeing claims that the XL is quieter. But here’s where I’m confused…

If I’m using 140mm fans (which both cases support), the total number of fans I can install is the same in both. So wouldn’t the smaller Define 7 actually have better airflow (higher air pressure per volume), and therefore potentially run cooler and quieter at the same fan speeds?

Or is there something about the XL's larger internal space — more room for sound to dissipate, lower turbulence, etc. — that actually makes it quieter, even with the same fans?

Curious what others have experienced or measured here. Anyone done noise or thermal comparisons between the two with identical fan setups?

-------------------

SPECS / NOTE:

(air-cooled, trying to get it as quiet as possible at idle and light-usage. I don't mind higher noise / temps if I'm gaming or doing higher-intensive tasks... just need it as quiet as possible when recording with microphones and light usage)

 

[freeagent]

It really depends on the fans. I like cooling with my Torrent Compact, but I hate working on it. I moved to a PA602 and get roughly the same temps as I had before. I do not hear my case when the system is idle, and is pretty quiet for the most part. I run my fans at full speed. I do not really hear them when I am in game, this is probably one of the quieter setups that I have run.

 

[_roman_]

Did you already bought the case?

I bought a "b-ware" (b-grade in eng?) fractal design meshify 2 dark tint case. There are definitely differences to cheaper be quiet pure base 500, fractal design meshify c or jonsbo D41 cases.
I build similar hardware as my previous am4 platform in a be quiet pure base 500 case. Stuff got much hotter in the be quiet one, but it was 30€ cheaper. I game but the other box is only used for advanced office use.

Think about what you need. Which case fans. I think the fractal design north these days is awesome. You may check out "gamers nexus" on youtube for case selection.

I'm kinda happy with my meshify 2.

(air-cooled, trying to get it as quiet as possible at idle and light-usage. I don't mind higher noise / temps if I'm gaming or doing higher-intensive tasks... just need it as quiet as possible when recording with microphones and light usage)

You may consider going passive or semi passive cooling.

Some power supply unit have a zero fan mode for up to 50% of the rated output load
Some graphic cards offer a zero fan mode
there are some passive cpu coolers on the market. Of course that will not work well with certain intel processors in my point of view.

Most likely a decent mainboard with decent fan curve support will also give you a semi passive mode.

As you want to keep your box quiet you may avoid pcie 5.0 nvme and similar storage which tend to throttle and / or get too hot.

 

[Shrek]

Not sure zero fan mode is a great idea

Post in thread 'TechPowerUp is Hiring a Power Supply (PSU) Reviewer'

Nov 10, 2024

thermally conductive?

Yes. And that potting material is VERY expensive. I've looked into it to create a fanless PSU option, and the current solution of "just sell a 1200W PSU as an 850W PSU" is actually a much cheaper solution.

If a PC uses 300W, the amount of energy it pumps into a room is 300W, regardless of fan speed or cooling efficiency (because 99.9999% of the energy a PC uses is converted to heat - sound and light are very very very low-energy by comparison)

The temperature of that airflow depends on the rate of airflow. 300W dissipated into a small amount of air...

• jonnyGURU

• 

"Zero RPM fan mode will wait until there is so much heat to dissipate, the fan kicks on at 400W and the air coming out of the back can be used to melt heatshrink tubing."

 

[QuestionAsker]

Thanks guys for your input - much appreciated

Did you already bought the case?

I bought a "b-ware" (b-grade in eng?) fractal design meshify 2 dark tint case. There are definitely differences to cheaper be quiet pure base 500, fractal design meshify c or jonsbo D41 cases.
I build similar hardware as my previous am4 platform in a be quiet pure base 500 case. Stuff got much hotter in the be quiet one, but it was 30€ cheaper. I game but the other box is only used for advanced office use.

Think about what you need. Which case fans. I think the fractal design north these days is awesome. You may check out "gamers nexus" on youtube for case selection.

I'm kinda happy with my meshify 2.



You may consider going passive or semi passive cooling.

Some power supply unit have a zero fan mode for up to 50% of the rated output load
Some graphic cards offer a zero fan mode
there are some passive cpu coolers on the market. Of course that will not work well with certain intel processors in my point of view.

Most likely a decent mainboard with decent fan curve support will also give you a semi passive mode.

As you want to keep your box quiet you may avoid pcie 5.0 nvme and similar storage which tend to throttle and / or get too hot.

I haven't bought the case yet, still debating between the Fractal Define 7 and the Fractal Define 7 XL. I'm heavily leaning toward the XL though... might as well go big and have the option to expand in the future.

I wanted to go with the Samsung 9100 2 TB drive (gen 5) for my OS and Programs drive.

And then the Samsung 990 PRO 4 TB drive (gen 4) for my music projects and sample libraries, etc.

If the gen 5 drive will only be used at boot and to load up a few programs, it shouldn't get too hot right? Or would it make a big difference?

 

[_roman_]

In my personal point of view. Very biased. My Kingston KC3000 2tB is still on the very top. I would check before those drive reviews. I would only get something with dedicated DRAM and not host memmory buffer option. PCIE 5.0 is not really worth it as of now. Some PCIE 4.0 nvme are really worth it when tehy have dram.

Samsung NVME - it's your choice. I am very biased. I see so many complaints about SAMSUNG NVME and sATA 2.5" SSDs. Western digital, tehse days SANDISK, also has certain issues with certain hardware combinations.
Backups will not help you, as you will loose data anyway and you will have to restore the box.

Honestly I just checked the case

Define 7 XL

The Define 7 XL sets a new standard for what you should expect from a full tower case in terms of modularity, flexibility and ease of use.

www.fractal-design.com

It does not come with a mesh front. You ask for a quiet box than in my point of view you need a mesh front

--

these days - I only go for functionality - I would take mesh side panel with mesh front. I think that should keep it more cool under low loads.
please ignore that i taken a white case - I'm kinda sure it exists i black also. Not sure about the front though.

North XL

North reimagines the gaming PC, introducing natural materials and bespoke details to make gaming a stylish addition to the living space. Fusing design and airflow engineering, the case features fine-patterned mesh ventilation and an open front with real walnut or oak panels. The design is...

www.fractal-design.com

• The mesh version of the case features a full mesh side panel in addition to the top

I think they call it fan bracket - I did not checked the manual. Could be interesting to have two dedicated fans near the side pandel. Especially with low RPM.

Or is there something about the XL's larger internal space — more room for sound to dissipate, lower turbulence, etc. — that actually makes it quieter, even with the same fans?

checked #1 again

sound properties are complicated. fan sound with certain mounting positions and case vibrations does complicate things in my point of view.

 

[freeagent]

How well the fan is balanced, motor and impeller properties, the gauge (thickness) of the metal used in the chassis, thickness of glass, thickness of fans are all things to consider..

You are screwed

Mesh bad, open good.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

Some. mostly, general thoughts here:

• With a bigger case, there will be some advantages. More room for air to move and while there is more room for sound to also move, it also means more surface area to absorb sound (and if the case surfaces are covered in sound absorption materials this really makes a difference.
• I can't see high air pressure being a target, it is not about feeding an engine or blowing up a balloon. It is about making cool air more over hot surfaces so heat can transfer, the more air that moves the better.
• The amount of pressure in a system will quickly get stable, since it is question of how much air gets pushed in and how much air is allowed to escape. The volume of the case only matters at start up as it will quickly be loaded up with whatever the fans push in, provided of course they are able to push more air in than is allowed to escape.
• A big case also means more room for heat sinks and even having internal fans moving air around the case (that is like more extreme purposes).

Also just in general. In my view a good case has air filters on its intakes and they need to be easy access and clean, not ones requiring to disassemble the case as such. Filtering air means minimizing dust build up in ones system, that means cooling that doesn't degrade over time and fans that doesn't die due to dust.

 

[Vayra86]

Thermal influence numero uno is always ambient temp and second is temp delta. After that I would rank airflow. Case size is some distant fifth or sixth at best; and might even work the other way around: a larger case / more empty case is vulnerable to airflow inefficiency so you would need more fans or better fans before anything else. The noise profile then depends on fan used, number of them and RPM.

I use a small case now, mesh all around and it barely needs anything case fan wise as components are directly cooled from ambient.

All things considered I think larger means less silence.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

Thermal influence numero uno is always ambient temp and second is temp delta. After that I would rank airflow. Case size is some distant fifth or sixth at best; and might even work the other way around: a larger case / more empty case is vulnerable to airflow inefficiency so you would need more fans or better fans before anything else. The noise profile then depends on fan used, number of them and RPM.

I use a small case now, mesh all around and it barely needs anything case fan wise as components are directly cooled from ambient.

All things considered I think larger means less silence.

How do you see a big case being vulnerable to airflow inefficiency in a way that isn't there for a smaller case?

Of course the location of the fans and air exits relative to the components needing cooling matters, but that is no different than with a small case and regardless of size you can have spots with little air flow if air paths aren't right.

 

[Jarmer]

I have the North XL - black mesh version. Just built a new system in it, and I absolutely LOVE it. I have 8 case fans lol ... all bequiet's and all pwm, and the system runs nice and cool and very very quiet.

 

[Vayra86]

How do you see a big case being vulnerable to airflow inefficiency in a way that isn't there for a smaller case?

Of course the location of the fans and air exits relative to the components needing cooling matters, but that is no different than with a small case and regardless of size you can have spots with little air flow if air paths aren't right.

Small and cramped case will force airflow through so its much easier to manage. Large case makes that impossible; even with tons of fans; you are having a much harder time to create air pressure high enough without ludicrous fan speeds. Its why server racks arent spacious either.

 

[docnorth]

Please keep in mind that Define 7 already is a big and heavy case, with enough space for almost everything. I tend to agree with @Vayra86 that with the same number of fans it would be better to choose the large over the x-large case for quieter operation.
About SSD, I agree with @_roman_ , pcie5 is not worth it yet. But Samsung is my first choice for the OS SSD, not that I had problems with WD (especially in the HDD era).
That’s just me and welcome to TPU!

 

[Vayra86]

Some. mostly, general thoughts here:

• With a bigger case, there will be some advantages. More room for air to move and while there is more room for sound to also move, it also means more surface area to absorb sound (and if the case surfaces are covered in sound absorption materials this really makes a difference.

This is just simply not true - I own two different Defines (R4 and C TG) and both were harder to cool with lower TDP components inside of them (!!!). The noise profile is altered by their sound dampening properties; which the R4 and later versions do best, and the C TG is horribly wasteful with because glass is just about the worst case material in the business.

I have a virtually open Lian Li A3 now and the intake fans are my 7900XT (yep... bottom intake with the GPU) while I pull air from the top with T30s. The temp gets to immediate equilibrium and GPU temp never moves up matter how long the system is in use. The Defines? Temp slowly crept up even with just an undervolted GTX 1080 inside (200W max) while I push 280-300W now in a fully filled up mATX case that can simply utilize ambient air straight away and only pulls hot out from the top. The Defines even needed higher fan speeds and I cant really say they kept their silence profile in prolonged use.

 

[BlindZenDriver]

Lets not over simplify.
There is lots of variables when it comes to cooling and noise. The size of the case is just one variable, what matters much more is fan placement, fan types and their individual settings,component placement, where air is allowed to exit, sound dampening properties...

However one thing is simple. Air pressure is going to be about how much force you have pumping air in, how obstructed air flow inside the case and how easy it is for air to exit. Nothing comes from nothing and a case itself doesn't make or reduce air pressure ie. the size is not a factor. Want to claim otherwise, do make sure to account for laws of physics.

As for the size of servers in racks. That is about how them being compact allows for more blades in a rack and noise not being a consideration.

 

[Vayra86]

Lets not over simplify.
There is lots of variables when it comes to cooling and noise. The size of the case is just one variable, what matters much more is fan placement, fan types and their individual settings,component placement, where air is allowed to exit, sound dampening properties...

However one thing is simple. Air pressure is going to be about how much force you have pumping air in, how obstructed air flow inside the case and how easy it is for air to exit. Nothing comes from nothing and a case itself doesn't make or reduce air pressure ie. the size is not a factor. Want to claim otherwise, do make sure to account for laws of physics.

As for the size of servers in racks. That is about how them being compact allows for more blades in a rack and noise not being a consideration.

Of course. Just trying to illustrate how larger does not bring the benefits you think they do. I do assume people always place fans where they should be. I was surprised too about this; smaller enclosures actually do bring advantages.

As for OPs key question; @QuestionAsker
So wouldn’t the smaller Define 7 actually have better airflow (higher air pressure per volume), and therefore potentially run cooler and quieter at the same fan speeds?

The answer is a dead certain yes. A big thing to consider in this case is that music production will not load the GPU and pushes hard on CPU instead; get low RPM case fans with large diameter here, plus a dead silent CPU cooling fan on top of a solid dual tower cooler and you have an optimal solution with a regular Define 7. This is actually also the exact use case I had for my Define R4 back in the day and it worked very well. CPU was a 77W i5 3570k with a simple 25 dollar Gelid Tranquillo rev 2 on top., it was perfect at the time. Current day CPUs burst a bit more so a bigger heatsink is recommended.

Also you will want ALL storage to be SSD and avoid spinners, because resonation of HDDs will be your biggest noise disturbance at that point. After that... your PSU will likely be the source of noise that might be audible; so getting a good 30% extra wattage on that one with zero RPM fan at low loads will be a boon too.

 

[JustBenching]

How do you see a big case being vulnerable to airflow inefficiency in a way that isn't there for a smaller case?

Air pressure drops with distance from fans. In a smaller case you won't even need both an intake and an exhaust fan, just an intake one will manage to push the air out as well.

 

[Scircura]

Aren't fans happier when resistance is lower? Like, free air is ideal. A giant case would hopefully position obstructions further away from the fans. Also could have room for baffles or other sound-absorbing structures and materials, which are bulky. And resonant frequencies could be lower and less obtrusive with the larger dimensions.

I wouldn't expect pressure inside the case to differ with volume, assuming the same intake and outlet area. Maybe case temperature in a larger case would be more stable with less severe temperature peaks. Edit: oops, the mass of air in the case is negligible, so a roomier case won't affect case air temperature peaks. A more massive case might act as a stabilizing heatsink, if there's enough heat transfer to matter?

I'm just talking out of my you-know-what here, since I only have experience with tower PCs. Small builds don't even slightly interest me as they've been "known" from the Silent PC Review days to be harder to silence.

 

[A Computer Guy]

For my silent-focused, air-cooled music production PC I'm building:

I’m debating between two cases — the Fractal Define 7 and the Define 7 XL — and I keep seeing claims that the XL is quieter. But here’s where I’m confused…

If I’m using 140mm fans (which both cases support), the total number of fans I can install is the same in both. So wouldn’t the smaller Define 7 actually have better airflow (higher air pressure per volume), and therefore potentially run cooler and quieter at the same fan speeds?

Or is there something about the XL's larger internal space — more room for sound to dissipate, lower turbulence, etc. — that actually makes it quieter, even with the same fans?

Curious what others have experienced or measured here. Anyone done noise or thermal comparisons between the two with identical fan setups?

-------------------

SPECS / NOTE:

(air-cooled, trying to get it as quiet as possible at idle and light-usage. I don't mind higher noise / temps if I'm gaming or doing higher-intensive tasks... just need it as quiet as possible when recording with microphones and light usage)

Just some thoughts...

If you get the XL I would use some cardboard to block off the front gap to prevent recirculation of internal air.
Since either case has a solid side panel you can line the interior with some kind of sound dampening material.
Bigger cases can fit bigger CPU heatsinks with bigger fans running at lower RPM.

 

[y2faulty]

honestly I don't think there can even be an absolute answer to the question, it's too much situational.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I'm using a AQ OCTO to control my fans. Even when i had my 7000D with 12 fans in it, it can be as quiet or loud as you desire. I guess it all depends how you control the fans. I use the OCTO to control the fan speed by using the GPU temp as a ref for the fan curve. Not a great fan (no pun intrnded) of any motherboard control.

 

[Endymio]

So wouldn’t the smaller Define 7 actually have better airflow (higher air pressure per volume), and therefore potentially run cooler and quieter at the same fan speeds?

Airflow isn't directly related to air pressure per unit volume. For example, a high-pressure air tank high has zero airflow, whereas lowering air pressure along flow direction in a case would actually increase air pressure. You're really interested in the static pressure the fan generates vs. the suction pressure of the case.

But even this calculation doesn't directly answer your question, as the interaction between flow rates, case temperature, and -- your most important criteria, sound intensity -- is determined by dozens of other factors. Speaking on the most general terms, a large case tends to be quieter than a small one -- but the number of counterexamples is beyond count.

 

[_roman_]

I wrote a user review for a Jonsbo D41 Case with Display. I sold the Jonsbo case. I put everything back into my Meshify 2.
I did not saw any difference for a smaller case, but the jonsbo D41 case was not the mesh version one. I do compile a lot with my 2006 gnu gentoo linux. I would have seen better noise or higher /proc/cpuinfo cpuforefrequencies if the smaller case had brought me any positive benefits.

I do agree, on paper, thinking about it, a smaller case has much closer the fans to the components or the intake or outake of the air.

Personally what's even worse is the building experience and changing experience of the components. Certain bend cables because of lack space was not to my liking. I dislike seeing such bend cables with the hardware i bought myself.

 

[Chomiq]

Any case can be quiet if you put quality fans in it and run them at low rpms with fan curves (in FanControl or something similar) ramping ONLY when required. Define 7 XL only makes sense if you're planning to run a custom WC loop or an AIO or absolutely need a ton of storage. Otherwise you'd be better off with something smaller and airflow oriented.

 

[Vayra86]

I wrote a user review for a Jonsbo D41 Case with Display. I sold the Jonsbo case. I put everything back into my Meshify 2.
I did not saw any difference for a smaller case, but the jonsbo D41 case was not the mesh version one. I do compile a lot with my 2006 gnu gentoo linux. I would have seen better noise or higher /proc/cpuinfo cpuforefrequencies if the smaller case had brought me any positive benefits.

I do agree, on paper, thinking about it, a smaller case has much closer the fans to the components or the intake or outake of the air.

Personally what's even worse is the building experience and changing experience of the components. Certain bend cables because of lack space was not to my liking. I dislike seeing such bend cables with the hardware i bought myself.

Yeah.. Ive switched around quite a bit before arriving at the final build for each configuration Ive ran over the years. The Define R4 has seen four different fans throughout... in different orientations and with a new bunch of parts inside. The best practices Ive learned... I share here. One of them is the limited cooling capacity of Defines; you dont want 300W of gpu in there; better find a more open case then instead. Even 350W of total system power is already pushing it; you will need to compensate with higher fanspeeds and lose the noise dampening advantage while doing so.

Its all about finding the right balance per use case.