EK seems to be having major issues

[gurusmi]

Also as text. Not only as a video:

EK Issues Official Statement Acknowledging Past Issues, Plans Corrective Actions - ekwb.com

In light of recent video content by different media outlets and overall public sentiment concerning the company's operations, EK takes the situation very seriously. EK's founder and CEO, Edvard König, issued the following statement.

www.ekwb.com

 

[P4-630]

Statement Der Bauer regarding EKWB

 

[BoggledBeagle]

I like the willingness to sort out of the problems visible in the video of the owner(?) and now again director of the company mr. König, and also the positive acceptation this video seems to have according to the comments on Youtube, however I think it should also be noted that the financial situation of the company may have been caused also by the amount of money the owners of the company have been extracting from the company. So the image of mr. König as the savior of the company may be questionable, when you realise, that it might be (also) him who has been milking the company so hard that he nearly killed it.

I tried to look in the Slovenian company register, but it seems, that the information about the company is not publicly available and you cannot see, who owns it.

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

The fact deBauer has ended his involvement with their new AMD products is telling IMO

EK has a lot of work to do to rebuild trust and the want to work with them again.

 

[Vya Domus]

I get that they have the "premium brand image" and that comes with a tax but some of their products are literally 2x times as expensive as equivalent products from other companies, that's nuts, no wonder they can't clear their inventory.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

.... some of their products are literally 2x times as expensive as equivalent products from other companies, that's nuts, ....

A lot of companies (incl. for example Alphacool) make their products in China. If EK makes some of their product in Europe, these products must be more expensive.

BTW Alphacool may make more money on 100€ chinese CPU waterblock than EK on european made 200€ waterblock.

 

[Vya Domus]

A lot of companies (incl. for example Alphacool) make their products in China. If EK makes some of their product in Europe, these products must be more expensive.

This isn't really relevant to anyone but themselves, if other companies can undercut you by a lot then it's your problem. And I sincerely doubt EK's suppliers are based in EU anyway.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

... if other companies can undercut you by a lot then it's your problem. And I sincerely doubt EK's suppliers are based in EU anyway.

As a european I view european and chinese made goods differently and I am willing to pay more for a european made product.

I believe that they make a lot of stuff in Europe. Radiators are made in China I believe.

 

[Kapone33]

This is my take on it. EK thought that they had as much mind share as Nvidia and Corsair, without realizing that they did not. When those 2 Companies decided to hose us, I will use examples. Corsair TX850 was $99 for the longest time. Now it is on sale for $169. Do I even need to talk about their AIOs? Nvidia is not worth talking about as we know what happened.

I guess EK thought that as long as it was not as expensive as the product that they should triple their Water block prices. What about a CPU block for $300 US when the Alphacool C1 is stellar for $99.

The worst is the "quality" of the workmanship. It used to be that buying EK meant you were getting like Noctua. Nice add ons and great packaging. I really have to give them the single slot GPU block kudos. Until my PC looked like Niagara Falls at night, when the Gasket failed. It made an interesting illusion with the liquid interacting with the RGB. When the EK rep told me that my Aplhacool Quick connect tubing was the issue. I asked him why my Byiski card never did that and he could not respond. Needless to say I did not get my warranty. No problem sending it from Slovenia to Canada in 2 days but weeks to send it back and triple the shipping costs.

It is not just them though. EK was the most famous of the Water cooling Compnaies that existed before AIOs. AIOs have made one part of Water cooiling moot. I mean who is going to spend $400+ on a CPU loop when AIOs from Arctic, Thermalright and Deep cool can be had for less than $100 for a 360.

That leaves GPU blocks. With GPU blocks the rise of Byiski is where EK suffers. I mean Byiski will even do the budget lineup of some GPUs. There is also no difference in performance once a water block is installed properly. Then Alpahcool with the re design of their blocks gives you more capacity on the block vs the EK model I have. I mean you could literally buy the block/pump/res/rad/tubing, filled combined for your GPU from Alphacool for the price of just the GPU block from EK.

This is a clear example of what vote with your wallet means.

 

[gurusmi]

My ranking:
1. Made in Baden (Area in germany next to france)
2. Made in germany
3. Made in Europe
4. made anywhere in the world

Burt to be honest. Some prices of EKWB are silly. Also i don't think that a lot is produced in Europe. Btw. I got 4 AlphaCool SSD Coolers. The screws are integrated in the cooling plate. They shouldn't be on top. But at one cooler the screws are partially on top. It is mounted on top. Nasty quality made in china. The highest quality i have seen is produced by Watercool. And their prices are (at cpu coolers) much below EKWB.

 

[Vya Domus]

they make a lot of stuff in Europe

Is there any evidence that's actually the case ?

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Is there any evidence that's actually the case ?

As a part of the reconstruction of the company they could and should be very opened about how and where are their products made to support pricing of their products.

I have a pack of fittings from them and I can look on the package where are they made, if it helps.

 

[Vya Domus]

As a part of the reconstruction of the company they could and should be very opened about how and where are their products made to support pricing of their products.

The reason I seriously doubt anything they sell gets made in Europe is because EK, like Alphacool and others, also sell products for industrial applications and that sector is even more competitive on margins and pricing and it's pretty much guaranteed that they use China based suppliers.

 

[Kapone33]

Is there any evidence that's actually the case ?

I remember reading an article about EK moving some of their production to Europe. I am not sure what the minimum wage is in the EU but I am sure it could not constitute the increase of all of their products. Some of them have a 200%+ markup vs what was priced before.

The reason I seriously doubt anything they sell gets made in Europe is because EK, like Alphacool and others, also sell products for industrial applications and that sector is even more competitive on margins and pricing and it's pretty much guaranteed that they use China based suppliers.

I could see things like the Plexi that is used for their distro blocks, only thing is those are some of the most expensive products that EK sells.

 

[Vya Domus]

Anyway, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day, I don't think using local manufacturing is enough of a justification for their often absurd prices. I've seen lots of people complain about the quality control as well, so it's not like this guarantees perfect quality.

 

[Kapone33]

Anyway, it doesn't even matter at the end of the day, I don't think using local manufacturing is enough of a justification for their often absurd prices. I've seen lots of people complain about the quality control as well, so it's not like this guarantees perfect quality.

A distro plate for $400 US when the manufacturing costs could not be more than $20 is crazy. It is not even like those have PCBs,

 

[BoggledBeagle]

A distro plate for $400 US when the manufacturing costs could not be more than $20 is crazy. It is not even like those have PCBs,

Like this for example?

EK-Quantum Reflection² PC-O11D XL D5 PWM D-RGB - Plexi

EK-Quantum Reflection² distro-plate for the Lian Li O11D XL case

www.ekwb.com

This is almost a half meter big precision machined part, do you want to know how many hours it spent on how expensive machines??? They clearly state that it is made in Slovenia.

Some water cooling parts are simply VERY EXPENSIVE TO MAKE.

 

[gurusmi]

I remember reading an article about EK moving some of their production to Europe. I am not sure what the minimum wage is in the EU but I am sure it could not constitute the increase of all of their products. Some of them have a 200%+ markup vs what was priced before.

Institute of german economics: https://www.iwkoeln.de/fileadmin/pu...nds_2016-03-03_industrielle_Arbeitskosten.pdf
Take a look at their page 44.

But there has been a chage within the last month/years. Stihl, a well known german brand for chaiinsaws outsourcetheir production to the swiss as it is in comparism to germany cheaper to produce there. A lot of other companies also take a look towards asia and america to produce there because of the german costs and burocracy.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

Former EKWB Employees say company has racist, hostile work environment, withholds overtime pay

Multiple employees describe racist jokes, wage theft and unsafe conditions.

www.tomshardware.com

Sorry, but a lot of things point just at the errors and incompetence of the US branch.

“There were lots of inventory issues. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock were not accounted for,” Henderson said. “It could say we have 50 distro plates in stock, and we have no distro plates in stock.”

According to former Regional Sales Manager Jemari Serraty, employees often spent hours trying to count products on the shelves in an attempt to make up for the shortcomings of poor product management software. However, some members of the management team in Slovenia accused the American staff of stealing inventory as a way of explaining the problems.

This is just a gross incompetence in the US branch and the parent company should have done much better job in assuring a proper conduct in the US branch, than just criticizing them.

 

[Kapone33]

Like this for example?

EK-Quantum Reflection² PC-O11D XL D5 PWM D-RGB - Plexi

EK-Quantum Reflection² distro-plate for the Lian Li O11D XL case

www.ekwb.com

This is almost a half meter big precision machined part, do you want to know how many hours is spent on how expensive machines??? They clearly state that it is made in Slovenia.

Some water cooling parts are simply VERY EXPENSIVE TO MAKE.

How much were the parts used? I cannot see a plexi based part being too expensive. If you have access to the Tech dept at your local high school you could put one together yourself. The thing is the part you referenced has a PCB on the pump. I am talking about raw distro plates with no pump but just plexi and latex.

Former EKWB Employees say company has racist, hostile work environment, withholds overtime pay

Multiple employees describe racist jokes, wage theft and unsafe conditions.

www.tomshardware.com

Sorry, but a lot of things point just at the errors and incompetence of the US branch.

“There were lots of inventory issues. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock were not accounted for,” Henderson said. “It could say we have 50 distro plates in stock, and we have no distro plates in stock.”

According to former Regional Sales Manager Jemari Serraty, employees often spent hours trying to count products on the shelves in an attempt to make up for the shortcomings of poor product management software. However, some members of the management team in Slovenia accused the American staff of stealing inventory as a way of explaining the problems.

This is just a gross incompetence in the US branch and the parrent company should have done much better job in assuring a proper conduct in the US branch, than just criticizing them.

One of the truths about Europe is the farther East you go from England the worse the racism is.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

I cannot see a plexi based part being too expensive.

Plastic parts are inexpensive only if they are injection molded in mass numbers. Machined plexi distro plate would be similarly expensive as aluminium machined distro plate - the highest cost is the machining time.

These are low volume high end products. They cannot be cheap.

If you have access to the Tech dept at your local high school you could put one together yourself.

Right. Just buy a sheet of plexi glass, glue, drill bit and a thread cutter and show us your result.

I know that nobody would want my hand made distro plate even if I was giving it away for free.

 

[maxfly]

Plastic parts are inexpensive only if they are injection molded in mass numbers. Machined plexi distro plate would be similarly expensive as aluminium machined distro plate - the highest cost is the machining time.

These are low volume high end products. They cannot be cheap.


Right. Just buy a sheet of plexi glass, glue, drill bit and a thread cutter and show us your result.

I know that nobody would want my hand made distro plate even if I was giving it away for free.

Machining costs zilch for plexi. They can crank out plexi parts by the ton. The dies and R&D are where the money is spent.

There's a dude here on the forum that makes his own blocks. If you want to find out where the money is spent, he's the one to ask. Iirc al bundy is his username.

 

[A Computer Guy]

A distro plate for $400 US when the manufacturing costs could not be more than $20 is crazy. It is not even like those have PCBs,

For the high price of distro plates custom to particular cases I would feel better about the products if they included some design amenities in the machining process such as

• flow enhancement
  • Such as rounded channel ports. Currently always hard 90 degree fluid paths to the fitting - yuck!
• noise reduction
  • Cased by pump noise reflection opposite side of the pump mount. EK's distroplate for original 011D is even worse with noise with the metal plate on the opposite side of the pump.
  • Also pump noise reverberation within the fluid chamber can be a problem
• purposeful shape optimization
  • Doesn't leave channels for RGB cable routing around the distroplate
  • Screwdriver access to mounting holes for adjacent fans
  • Recessed optimization with fittings such as EK's drain port
  • Recessed areas for noise reduction pads near surface contact points
• somebody actually doing test fitment with the intended case design options and making design changes for better compatibility
  • Pump location not optimal and inhibits case configurations for fans and rads
  • Shape inhibits case configurations in annoying ways like preventing access to mount points
  • Port placement inhibits case configurations un-necessarily limiting rad and fan placement
  • Having the distroplate replace the glass (like in the 011D)

These problems didn't become apparent to me until after I got my first distroplate for my 011D. If I knew about these issues I would have probably stuck with my tube/pump combo and saved the money. (one of the items I happened to by that didn't get on discount) On a positive note when I ordered my first distroplate it got shipped to the wrong address and DHL wouldn't or couldn't retrieve it. EK eventually recognized the issue after I opened the ticket with them and two weeks later sent me another via UPS.

 

[Ayhamb99]

And the situation seems to get worse now

 

[cvaldes]

And the situation seems to get worse now

If you watch Der Bauer's video (post #27 in this discussion) he states that he believes Steve is being completely truthful.

Perhaps more troubling is Der Bauer's comment that the original GN video just scratched the tip of the iceberg.

Roman (Der Bauer) doesn't have the personality to launch into hyperbole at the drop of a hat. It is apparently really, Really, REALLY BAD.

As the kids say, it is an absolute sh!tshow.