Epic Wins Store Spat Against Google, Jury Holds Google Play Guilty of Monopolistic Practices

[randomghost]

Oh yeah cant wait to have bunch of app stores on phone just like i love all launchers on pc. Really a fucking progress and somebody has to be brain dead to think that. Oh wait they will get some useless shit so its all good.

 

[JohH]

Oh yeah cant wait to have bunch of app stores on phone just like i love all launchers on pc. Really a fucking progress and somebody has to be brain dead to think that. Oh wait they will get some useless shit so its all good.

Bot post

PC has done fine without a monopolized application store forever. It just works.
Malware is just as much of a recurring problem on Google's official Android application store. It doesn't solve any problem except distribution of updates.

 

[trsttte]

There are no winners here. Apple, Google, Epic are all asshole corporations who value you as money piñatas with no freedom or rights.

Lawyers, those are the winners

Its an interesting set of cases.

Wikipedia has the details, and what struck me is this one:

Epic Games v. Apple - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Legal review of the cases identify the key issue is whether Apple's control of the iOS App Store is a monopoly or not. Epic Games has argued that Apple maintains a monopoly for iOS-enabled devices, and thus its behavior in restricting alternative payment systems and storefronts are anticompetitive. Apple contends that the marketplace that Epic participates in is multiple platforms, not just the iOS, and in that perspective, Apple does not have a monopoly.[13][14]

Now, let's consider that, in light of what happened in the Google case. If the judge had let Google win... what would be the effect? Effectively, Sweeney would still be bound to a 30% revenue cut and would even have to allow that to extend to in app purchases (one of the focus points in these cases is the ability to offer your own payment service within apps). Effectively, then, Apple and Google would be able to determine between themselves that 30% is the new norm. That's not a healthy market right there. That's a cartel.

There are no longer any ways out of this if you ask me. If the rules count for Google, they also do count for Apple, and when taken together, its the only possible outcome or you can't possibly defend that we have a system that tries to preserve healthy market conditions.

It just takes a bit long to figure that out, but this will happen, because now Google is facing unfair competitive position versus Apple

I agree with all that, but they're separate cases and the case against google is not setting any precedent because the situation is quite different, so Epic will need to keep litigating against Apple that is a much worse offender than Google in this scenario: you can't do anything on iOS without Apple's say, on Android you can, you're able to distribute your own app store (like Samsung does) and bypass all google fees, where Google was found guilty was by offering bribes so other players didn't start competing app stores, but it's still possible to do so, on iOS it's simply not.

Apple hasn't stopped anyone from opening a alternative store "doubt it's worth it" google did "much larger user base" , there's your difference in judgements.

Yes it has, you simply can't do it. The only way to install apps on iOS/iPadOS is through the appstore and every app available on the app store is vetted by Apple. Alternative appstores are simply blocked.

Both Apple and Google are terrible but Android allows for options, iOS does not. Regardless of Epic, Apple is already in hot waters with the EU because of this, the Epic case brought more attention to the issue but unfortunately didn't help fast track the hole thing. It's completely ridiculous Apple has not simply been forced to open up the platform and allow users to install whatever the fuck they want.

 

[theouto]

Doesn't google allow third party apps on android anyways? Isn't google play just the default app store? Is epic stupid? Is the jury even more stupid? Or maybe, no, epic wouldn't be doing this out of sheer greed, would day? Unthinkable!

 

[Totally]

Google is going to have a hard time they actually compete with Apple as both ecosystems are completely divorced and insulated from one another.

 

[AusWolf]

Epic sued for Google's and Apple's exclusivity on their respective platforms (exactly what Epic is doing on Windows). The hypocrisy!

I hope either Google or Apple file an appeal that they win, and Epic goes bankrupt.

 

[Totally]

Doesn't google allow third party apps on android anyways?

Only as long as Google exclusively gets to handle payment processing. The Epic games launcher opening a web portal in order to buy v-bucks is a no-no

Epic sued for Google's and Apple's exclusivity on their respective platforms (exactly what Epic is doing on Windows). The hypocrisy!

I hope either Google or Apple file an appeal that they win, and Epic goes bankrupt.

That's not why epic sued. See above, Epic tried cutting out the middle man and Google gave them the boot.

 

[persondb]

Its an interesting set of cases.

Wikipedia has the details, and what struck me is this one:

Epic Games v. Apple - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Legal review of the cases identify the key issue is whether Apple's control of the iOS App Store is a monopoly or not. Epic Games has argued that Apple maintains a monopoly for iOS-enabled devices, and thus its behavior in restricting alternative payment systems and storefronts are anticompetitive. Apple contends that the marketplace that Epic participates in is multiple platforms, not just the iOS, and in that perspective, Apple does not have a monopoly.[13][14]

Now, let's consider that, in light of what happened in the Google case. If the judge had let Google win... what would be the effect? Effectively, Sweeney would still be bound to a 30% revenue cut and would even have to allow that to extend to in app purchases (one of the focus points in these cases is the ability to offer your own payment service within apps). Effectively, then, Apple and Google would be able to determine between themselves that 30% is the new norm. That's not a healthy market right there. That's a cartel.

There are no longer any ways out of this if you ask me. If the rules count for Google, they also do count for Apple, and when taken together, its the only possible outcome or you can't possibly defend that we have a system that tries to preserve healthy market conditions.

It just takes a bit long to figure that out, but this will happen, because now Google is facing unfair competitive position versus Apple

Monopolies aren't illegal though. It's abusing the market power given by the monopoly that is in fact illegal.

The app stores might be a case of natural monopoly too. Probably even more so for the case of Apple, who provides all tools and everything necessary for things to run in iOS.

Google also does the same thing but in Android case it's open source. Technically speaking, for android at least there is no reason why Epic can't release their own EGS app, except not being on Google store.

 

[trsttte]

Doesn't google allow third party apps on android anyways? Isn't google play just the default app store? Is epic stupid? Is the jury even more stupid? Or maybe, no, epic wouldn't be doing this out of sheer greed, would day? Unthinkable!

There's 2 main points, one of them is very dumb but the other is a very real problem and google is super guilty.

The first problem is can you install stuff on android without the play store? Yes, yes you can and you don't need to pay anything to google. You can even create a completely separate app store where you make all the rules, i.e. the samsung or amazon app stores. The argument from epic is that google makes this too difficult and "scary" for consumers with warnings and such - this is a very dumb argument and should not hold any water. Hopefully the news headlines are just focusing on the more sensationalistic loss part and this was dismissed.

The second problem is google actively tries to discourage anyone who thinks of creating their own app store, both through bribes and other penalties within their power in the android ecosystem - i.e. One Plus when they wanted to pre-install fortnite and I think were considering also doing an app store. They're super guilty and there's dozen of smoking guns.

The news are focusing on the anti competitive part but the case was huge, hopefully as the dust settles more information that can be understood by laymen starts to appear.

 

[R0H1T]

Doesn't google allow third party apps on android anyways? Isn't google play just the default app store? Is epic stupid? Is the jury even more stupid? Or maybe, no, epic wouldn't be doing this out of sheer greed, would day? Unthinkable!

It's not a wrong argument ~ the biggest money makers in the world today are platforms/brokers who facilitate transaction of good/services through them. Like banks/app stores/Amazon/trading platforms et al. The more times you are on that "loop" of exchanging money the more you make, if you're closer to the endpoints or one of the end points you can make a lot more! This is where Apple/Google/Alibaba/Steam/Amazon (even AWS) make trillions in terms of combined revenues & their "finder's fee" is ludicrous in most cases

While on the surface the ruling is great I bet Google or Apple will squeeze in some other areas of their revenue stream to make up for that "lost" profits ~ I still believe that there should be a cap on profits/margins for these megacorps but since most of the legislators across the globe are already bought I doubt that'd ever come to pass!

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

Hmm this bolsters the PS store anti trust case as well.....

May be a good thing in the short/mid term for gamers etc. Not sure how this will shake out in the longer term.

 

[bug]

I don't want to defend google, they're clearly in the wrong, but damn, how the in hell did Apple win their lawsuit???

So google is monopolistic for paying incentives (aka bribes) so other companies don't develop their own app stores - but you still can install whatever the fuck you want with a simple option clearly accessible - whereas with apple you can't install shit, even if you're a developer you need to pay for the privilege and renew the few installs you can do at the same time every 2 weeks. No ifs or buts!

This shit is ridiculous.



Apple was first and they won the most relevant parts!



It was the same thing with extras, because Apple banned epic from the appstore all together.

Yeah, I feel it's one of those moments that shakes your entire belief in the justice system

 

[Minus Infinity]

Google needs to be broken up given their stranglehold on online advertisement, search engine, mobile OS, web browser and online video hosting platform(Youtube). Good to see Epic finally taking a massive win.

+1000000000000000

We broke up Bell and they were one billionth the monopolistic scumbag company Google has become.

 

[R0H1T]

You'd have to breakup Amazon, MS, Apple & probably Meta as well ~ these are all natural monopolies in their areas largely in part due to their first mover advantage!

 

[randomghost]

Bot post

PC has done fine without a monopolized application store forever. It just works.
Malware is just as much of a recurring problem on Google's official Android application store. It doesn't solve any problem except distribution of updates.

Oh yeah sorry forgot npcs cant understand most obvious sarcasm

its funny if somebody thinks epic fights some good fight and it will benefit users they just don’t want share

 

[Kapone33]

I am glad that Epic is fighting Google for themselves. Why they get nothing from me as a user is my QOL on the service. I guess we should be happy with Epic being the only launcher that does not remember or at least let you get your files back after upgrading your PC. Steam has shown that it does not take much.

 

[Dr_b_]

Hopefully this and government regulations deal a death blow to these app stores, 30% cut is outrageous

 

[AusWolf]

That's not why epic sued. See above, Epic tried cutting out the middle man and Google gave them the boot.

Sure. I just don't get why the court sided with Epic. Android is Google's platform, and iOS is Apple's, they do as they please.

I still think Epic suing for exclusivity is the biggest hypocrisy of the decade.

 

[Frick]

Wait... you actually BOUGHT things in the Epic store?

Why is that bad?

 

[chrcoluk]

Hopefully this and government regulations deal a death blow to these app stores, 30% cut is outrageous

If Epic dont like it and they think the 30% cut isnt reasonable for the efforts Google put in to Android's success, why dont they put setup their own Phone OS and own phone to sell then? Must be trivial right?

 

[Vayra86]

Why is that bad?

Part in jest, but honestly? My faith in their continued existence is pretty low and you know how I feel about their launcher/store quality... I can't say EGS's state instills faith.

 

[AusWolf]

Part in jest, but honestly? My faith in their continued existence is pretty low and you know how I feel about their launcher/store quality... I can't say EGS's state instills faith.

Agreed. The only things I've ever bought there are the forever exclusive Alan Wake Remastered and Alan Wake 2 games, and I hope I can keep it that way.

Although, Return to Moria and that new Avatar game look extremely appealing - I just hope they'll drop on to Steam in the not so distant future.

If Epic dont like it and they think the 30% cut isnt reasonable for the efforts Google put in to Android's success, why dont they put setup their own Phone OS and own phone to sell then? Must be trivial right?

Excellent point! Imagine owning a pub (bar) and some local brewery filing a complaint against you for selling their beer with a profit margin. How dare you?

 

[Chry]

Sounds like a victory for the consumer. But perhaps too early to celebrate as Google and Apple have their roots really well entrenched and will only drop what they already have in mouth VERY reluctantly (namely, if forced). At the same time it is a very necessary step for a healthy market to exist.

Imagine owning a pub (bar)

imagine there only existing 1-3 pubs worldwide with no local ones whatsoever. They would be able to dictate their own profit margins however they'd like and yes that would be a problem for the local breweries that would need antitrust intervention to fix and regulate.

 

[AusWolf]

Sounds like a victory for the consumer. But perhaps too early to celebrate as Google and Apple have their roots really well entrenched and will only drop what they already have in mouth VERY reluctantly (namely, if forced). At the same time it is a very necessary step for a healthy market to exist.

How is it a victory for the consumer? How is buying an app for $5.99 on Epic a victory for you over buying it for $5.99 on the Google or Apple store?

Epic's exclusivity deals on Windows games are definitely not a victory for me, but a major setback.

imagine there only existing 1-3 pubs worldwide with no local ones whatsoever. They would be able to dictate their own profit margins however they'd like and yes that would be a problem for the local breweries that would need antitrust intervention to fix and regulate.

Nothing prevents you from opening another pub. Oh, you don't have the financials, the manpower and the IP to do that properly? Poor you!

 

[Chry]

How is it a victory for the consumer? How is buying an app for $5.99 on Epic a victory for you over buying it for $5.99 on the Google or Apple store?

Epic's exclusivity deals on Windows games are definitely not a victory for me, but a major setback.

The victory will be if Google's margins will decrease. This may translate to lower prices for customers and/or higher profits for developers (= more or better products). It is a win for the customers.
Buying apps on Epic or Epic's exclusivity deals for Windows games is another topic.

Nothing prevents you from opening another pub. Oh, you don't have the financials, the manpower and the IP to do that properly? Poor you!

When an industry is expensive and difficult enough that few new players ever enter it, it is government's job to protect the customers from that monopoly and to curb anything that might be unfair to the customers and/or any potential new entrees into that field (who may be afraid to enter because of the strength and ruthlessness of the existing monopoly).

The ruling discussed seems to be out of your favour - could you tell us why? And I don't mean explaining why Epic is good or bad, but just about this ruling specifically. I fail to see how new restrictions for Google's margins could possibly hurt anyone while I see millions of customers and developers who may find this to be a small victory which will hopefully one day end up in lower altogether margins for all Google apps or something like that.