First Reviews are Live and Snapdragon X Elite Doesn't Quite Deliver on Promised Performance

[Kodehawa]

Define "many".

So far in a quick look of the applications I use the most:
- Jetbrains IDEs (IntelliJ, Rider) work perfectly and have ARM64 versions, as so C# and Java developer tools.
- Many databases can be ran using WSL2 natively on aarch64 ubuntu, and honestly it's also how it's done usually on x86 windows (ex. redis, pgsql usually tell you its better to run them on WSL2 as they're linux-first, obviously)
- Web browsers are fine (Edge, Firefox, Chrome have all WoA versions)
- foobar2000, 7-zip and misc utilities all had ARM downloads, I was also able to find a qbittorrent buildbot.
- Most benchmarking software I have installed have an ARM64 version now
- PowerToys, of course
- HWInfo64 has been contacted by qualcomm and are on ongoing efforts to port it, which also means probably PerfMon will be available
- Syncthing has a WoA version, aswell.
- Office suite also has an ARM version.

With that I wouldn't be missing any programs I use, including developer and work tools.

Outliers:
- Discord (which you can run in your browser)
- Telegram (with plans)

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I read in the Windows Central review of the ASUS model that a some games from the Windows Store refuse to run, giving an unsupported arch message. Ironically, some are MS first party games, like the Halo MCC and Infinite. Running stuff from Steam works, but with graphical issues at times. It just shows the breadth of size and inconsistency at MS, that they won’t emulate stuff with their own name on it, but others will. I get that this isn’t a gaming platform, but still you’d think that MS would help lead the charge, and there’s really no reason something like MCC shouldn’t run pretty well.

 

[wNotyarD]

I read in the Windows Central review of the ASUS model that a some games from the Windows Store refuse to run, giving an unsupported arch message. Ironically, some are MS first party games, like the Halo MCC and Infinite. Running stuff from Steam works, but with graphical issues at times. It just shows the breadth of size and inconsistency at MS, that they won’t emulate stuff with their own name on it, but others will. I get that this isn’t a gaming platform, but still you’d think that MS would help lead the charge, and there’s really no reason something like MCC shouldn’t run pretty well.

If only Qualcomm didn't go out of their way saying how the mighty X Elite beats the Radeon 680M in their marketing since the beginning.

 

[Kodehawa]

If only Qualcomm didn't go out of their way saying how the mighty X Elite beats the Radeon 680M in their marketing since the beginning.

Yeah it's stupid to set the expectations like that. It might be better but it's worthless if no games run.

I think it's a good productivity laptop too, and it's miles faster than every other WoA laptop out there. There's good value for developers here.

 

[trsttte]

some are MS first party games, like the Halo MCC and Infinite. Running stuff from Steam works, but with graphical issues at times. It just shows the breadth of size and inconsistency at MS, that they won’t emulate stuff with their own name on it

They shouldn't emulate anything, they should release versions compiled for arm if they were truly commited to arm. It's been like this from the start, their own tools, basic ones even, took years to get an arm versions, like teams of edge that only got arm versions in 2020

 

[wNotyarD]

They shouldn't emulate anything, they should release versions compiled for arm if they were truly commited to arm. It's been like this from the start, their own tools, basic ones even, took years to get an arm versions, like teams of edge that only got arm versions in 2020

Even Apple resorted to emulation first. Without it, the M processors would get nowhere.

 

[Assimilator]

They shouldn't emulate anything, they should release versions compiled for arm if they were truly commited to arm. It's been like this from the start, their own tools, basic ones even, took years to get an arm versions, like teams of edge that only got arm versions in 2020

You are smoking a special brand of crack if you think that shipping native Arm binaries for games is high priority on Microsoft's list right now.

 

[trsttte]

Even Apple resorted to emulation first. Without it, the M processors would get nowhere.

Keyword is "first", this is not Microsoft's first go at it, I'm not even talking about the failed Surface RT, the original Surface Pro X launched in 2019, that's almost five years. Of course porting games is very low on the totem pole but let's not pretend Windows on Arm is new and excuse when many things still don't work.

 

[Kapone33]

Keyword is "first", this is not Microsoft's first go at it, I'm not even talking about the failed Surface RT, the original Surface Pro X launched in 2019, that's almost five years. Of course porting games is very low on the totem pole but let's not pretend Windows on Arm is new and excuse when many things still don't work.

Much less Centrino. There was no reason to get those due to price and it seems Qualcomm has not learned it's lesson. If they want to gain traction they must sell this for less than a comparable X86 laptop not more.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

You are smoking a special brand of crack if you think that shipping native Arm binaries for games is high priority on Microsoft's list right now.

Why not? Aside from the ARM version of windows having existed for over a decade, games have long been used to demonstrate the power of new platforms and tech. Would a port of halo running natively, and running well, on the ARM platform not be interesting?

Certainly would have more impact then porting office.

Keyword is "first", this is not Microsoft's first go at it, I'm not even talking about the failed Surface RT, the original Surface Pro X launched in 2019, that's almost five years. Of course porting games is very low on the totem pole but let's not pretend Windows on Arm is new and excuse when many things still don't work.

After the clusterfrick that was window s10, and windows 11, and windows 8, i'd be surprised if anyone trusted MS to get any of this right.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

You are smoking a special brand of crack if you think that shipping native Arm binaries for games is high priority on Microsoft's list right now.

But isn't that the issue? If it's a process that not even MS is going to bother to do, then who else is going to? It's the same old issue with MS, they often poorly support their own stuff. Shouldn't they want to showcase that this platform they've been promoting can actually do some games, even if it's just a few older ones? Apple emulated SOTR when they first showcased M1, and people don't even expect to game on a Mac. It told us their emulator was that good, and ready for whatever you had. You gotta give people confidence--show them that WOA has a future that covers all the things people come to expect from Windows. Instead, we're left wondering if they just forgot to make it work, or if they eventually plan to get to it, or they don't think they can or it's not good enough. None of those reasons inspire confidence. MS really shoots off their own feet way too often.

 

[Chrispy_]

Good for browsing, email, online banking and online shopping, netflix and prime video...
That's about it then.

Yeah, it's a $1300 chromebook burdened by an OS that can't handle the new CPU architecture.

WoA is the problem, it gives the impression that you can do x86 things when in fact you can't yet. It's the same dumpster fire WindowsRT was, judging from all these identical problems that tanked WindowsRT 12 years ago.

Microsoft might want to be Apple, but they're clueless about what needs doing - so clueless that the killer feature - seamless emulation that makes Apple Silicon a viable product - is still woefully absent.

 

[Assimilator]

Would a port of halo running natively, and running well, on the ARM platform not be interesting?

No. Nobody plays games on Mac, and nobody is going to play games on WinArm, because that's not the target of these machines. They are intended solely to appeal to the same vapid fools who buy Macbooks as fashion accessories, rather than buying PCs to do actual work on. They are light and pretty and have long battery life and are capable of doing everything a smartphone can do because that is literally what they are: smartphones in a laptop form factor.

 

[wNotyarD]

No. Nobody plays games on Mac, and nobody is going to play games on WinArm, because that's not the target of these machines.

No one is going to play anything as long as they're unable to. If they could they would.

If Apple M had the games and SD X reliably delivered the performance of a mobile GTX 1650, for example, with good battery life and being lightweight, I'd get one in a heartbeat.
Not everyone needs 3060-class performance from a lappy.

 

[Assimilator]

If Apple M had the games and SD X reliably delivered the performance of a mobile GTX 1650, for example, with good battery life and being lightweight, I'd get one in a heartbeat.

Congratulations, you're part of a minority that Apple has no interest in pandering to. The same minority that Microsoft also isn't interested in pandering to with WinArm. The only reason Apple and Qualcomm mention graphics performance in their slides is because that's how marketing works, not because they actually give a shit about making a PC-class GPU.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

A Step Forward for Gaming on Arm Devices - DirectX Developer Blog

This year at Microsoft Build 2024 we announced a new set of Windows devices, Copilot+ PCs. Copilot+ PCs are a new class of Windows 11 PCs, including Arm-powered devices that are powered by the Snapdragon® X Series. These new Arm devices have cutting-edge new processing power coming from the CPU...

devblogs.microsoft.com

This is exactly what I mean. Folks are arguing here that MS doesn't need to worry about gaming on WOA, then they promote gaming on WOA, which they don't seem to be supporting with their own games games out of their own storefront. Getting their own stuff to work would be a step in the right direction, but again, this should have been done before launch. At least fix the flags that keep you from even attempting an install from the Store.

 

[wNotyarD]

The same minority that Microsoft also isn't interested in pandering to with WinArm.

It ain't that MS isn't interested in pandering to this demographic. Like @Darmok N Jalad pointed out, MS is just too incompetent to make what they promise true.

 

[Assimilator]

A Step Forward for Gaming on Arm Devices - DirectX Developer Blog

This year at Microsoft Build 2024 we announced a new set of Windows devices, Copilot+ PCs. Copilot+ PCs are a new class of Windows 11 PCs, including Arm-powered devices that are powered by the Snapdragon® X Series. These new Arm devices have cutting-edge new processing power coming from the CPU...

devblogs.microsoft.com

This is exactly what I mean. Folks are arguing here that MS doesn't need to worry about gaming on WOA, then they promote gaming on WOA, which they don't seem to be supporting with their own games games out of their own storefront. Getting their own stuff to work would be a step in the right direction, but again, this should have been done before launch. At least fix the flags that keep you from even attempting an install from the Store.

Once again, you've discovered that marketing and reality are often completely divorced from one another.

 

[trsttte]

Congratulations, you're part of a minority that Apple has no interest in pandering to. The same minority that Microsoft also isn't interested in pandering to with WinArm. The only reason Apple and Qualcomm mention graphics performance in their slides is because that's how marketing works, not because they actually give a shit about making a PC-class GPU.

Apple is absolutely interested in pandering to gamers, what's required to succeed on that just clashes on how Apple chooses to do business. They've been trying to make gaming on mac a reality with their own graphics API no one is interested in supporting because it only works on Mac. It's a chicken an egg problem and Apple is not willing to compromise with a standard API to ease one part of the problem, if they supported Vulkan more games would be made available for Mac, since they want to push their Metal api publishers won't make the effort for the small addressable market and the addressable market won't increase because no one is going to buy a Mac for gaming when there are barely any games available there.

The Microsoft situation is different though, they're perfectly happy not having any decent gaming performance and nudge you towards xCloud game streaming instead.

 

[starfals]

This is just not for me. Especially cus emulating apps make the battery die faster. Ugh

 

[v12dock]

After extensive usage, I can confirm that the power usage under general conditions, primarily involving Edge and web apps, is absolutely a slam dunk experience. The battery life easily meets and some days exceeds my M2 MacBook. For general usage, this is a fantastic chipset; for example, the wake time for WWLAN far exceeds Intel equivalents. Granted, that use case could be rectified on a software level, but Qualcomm has years of experience manufacturing products that go from a sleep to active state within milliseconds, and in this case, it's paying off.

Moving onto x86 emulation, it is impressive. Now, would I compare it to Apple Rosetta? I would put it within 90%, but I think something to keep in mind is that Windows supports 100 times more peripherals and 1000 times more software than Apple does. Also, Apple has controlled their software ecosystem before ARM with much more stringent control compared to Microsoft. I am honestly eager to see how Prism will improve in the next 6-12 months. I think both Microsoft and Qualcomm understand the ultimate goal is for ISVs to make ARM64 apps available for customers, and their work to provide SDKs and compiling tools in VS has proven that.

Overall, did Qualcomm exaggerate their performance benchmarks? Yeah, a bit. However, is it a strong x86 adversary? Absolutely, especially in power consumption.

 

[micropage7]

as expected, not everything that looks promising in benchmark will act the same in real condition coz there many aspect that could affect it

 

[Max(IT)]

No. Nobody plays games on Mac, and nobody is going to play games on WinArm, because that's not the target of these machines. They are intended solely to appeal to the same vapid fools who buy Macbooks as fashion accessories, rather than buying PCs to do actual work on. They are light and pretty and have long battery life and are capable of doing everything a smartphone can do because that is literally what they are: smartphones in a laptop form factor.

No one should play games on a notebook, tbh. But that’s a different story. The market is full of “gaming notebooks “ that can’t properly run games

 

[TheLostSwede]

For those interested in some game testing.

 

[sixor]

The new intel atoms