First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

lexluthermiester · Oct 13, 2021

stimpy88 said:
So anyone wanna bet that all Alder Lake benchmarks (that compare to a Ryzen CPU) are done on the release version, or build 258 of Windows 11???

Wintel is back.

Oh, please. Can we have done with this kind of fanboy nonsense already?

Turmania said:
The theory that, microsoft can be bribed by intel to favour them is just ridiculous and beyond rational thinking.

Exactly! Especially considering that microsoft is a HUGE AMD customer with the XBox using AMD SOC's exclusively!

billeman · Oct 13, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Oh, please. Can we have done with this kind of fanboy nonsense already?

Exactly! Especially considering that microsoft is a HUGE AMD customer with the XBox using AMD SOC's exclusively!

Yeah I don't follow the conspiracy theory either, not on Microsoft's side anyway. Intel, not so sure

But the major responsability has to lie with Microsoft anyway since it's their product and these AMD cpu's are not exactly new.

neatfeatguy · Oct 13, 2021

I'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?

HD64G · Oct 13, 2021

neatfeatguy said:
I'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?

Who is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...

DeathtoGnomes · Oct 13, 2021

lexluthermiester said:
Oh, please. Can we have done with this kind of fanboy nonsense already?

Exactly! Especially considering that microsoft is a HUGE AMD customer with the XBox using AMD SOC's exclusively!

Come on! put your tinhat on and have some fun with it! Just because m$ was caught being incompetent doesnt mean its 'state' sponsored. Or does it? :kookoo:

bug · Oct 13, 2021

HD64G said:
Who is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...

Whether you realize it or not, AMD also had access to Win11 development builds. If they're not crying foul, are you sure you should?

Makaveli · Oct 13, 2021

emigrant said:
So on my side (6th October) Windows 11 :
View attachment 220596

13th October Windows 11:
View attachment 220597

And just for compare Window 10 (about June 2021):
View attachment 220600

Your memory latency also went up and is very high for a Zen 3 chip at 1800 Bus speed.

70 ns is in Zen 2 range

HD64G · Oct 13, 2021

bug said:
Whether you realize it or not, AMD also had access to Win11 development builds. If they're not crying foul, are you sure you should?

Don't be hasty. Let's see what happens with the AL reviews and we will discuss again about that.

bug · Oct 13, 2021

HD64G said:
Who is surprised? Most here are just sure that, as usually in the past, MS favors Intel and harms AMD products and their owners. I don't remember such persistent bugs on the Intel side of the scheduler, especially when there was an imminent launch of a CPU generation from one of those companies...

HD64G said:
Don't be hasty. Let's see what happens with the AL reviews and we will discuss again about that.

Who's hasty?

HD64G · Oct 13, 2021

bug said:
Who's hasty?

You are the one who needs to see AMD and MS quarreling publicly even before the damage is done for AMD. In AMD's shoes would you open a public war on MS before the damage is proven or would try to correct them behind the scenes in order not to worsen or even brake you relationship? And believe me, I oversimplify muchly this situation by writing those thoughts about such a complicated condition.

phanbuey · Oct 13, 2021

neatfeatguy said:
I'm surprised folks are surprised that MS broke stuff in Windows 11....

It almost makes me wonder if any of you haven't had or seen issues about Windows 10 and then you expect things to be okay on 11?

Haha brutal but true.

bug · Oct 13, 2021

HD64G said:
You are the one who needs to see AMD and MS quarreling publicly even before the damage is done for AMD. In AMD's shoes would you open a public war on MS before the damage is proven or would try to correct them behind the scenes in order not to worsen or even brake you relationship? And believe me, I oversimplify muchly this situation by writing those thoughts about such a complicated condition.

Can you imagine there's stuff between saying nothing publicly for months (which is what AMD has done so far) and "open a public war"?

All I said is that if there was foul play (which you seem convinced it was), AMD had ample opportunity to raise a flag. Which they didn't.

thesmokingman · Oct 13, 2021

Mussels said:
I'm always anti-conspiracy, but this ones really weird
patches that make it worse when the fix is already on the dev channel?
Right before windows 11 is required to review alder lake CPUs?

If it's not malicious, its massive incompetence.

It's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?

dicktracy · Oct 13, 2021

AMD should fix their own broken crap. Their tiny market share doesn’t warrant anyone to bend to them. See TSMC 3nm as an example hehehehehehe

DeathtoGnomes · Oct 13, 2021

thesmokingman said:
It's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?

IDK about dumb coincidence, maybe Miraculous, or Imaginary.

bug · Oct 13, 2021

thesmokingman said:
It's just a dumb coincidence that the timeline really benefits AMD's chief rival and long long time MS partner. Am I right?

Which timeline is that? This has been reported 6 months ago (see above). If you plan to do a dick move like this, you sneak it in at the very last moment and blame a rushed change.

Prima.Vera · Oct 13, 2021

Hopefully they will fix the language bar, which now floats anywhere except taskbar, where it supposed to dock, but it doesn't...

yotano211 · Oct 13, 2021

So they need a patch to fix the patch.
wow..........
I'm staying with win10

ThrashZone · Oct 13, 2021

Crackong said:
Windows update break things again and even worse.....surprised ?

Hi,
Everyone rushes to install these updates cheering they installed on old hardware
I've yet to install them yet doubt I will seeing if updates mini tool works on 11 as well as it does on 10

Matter of fact I removed 11 and 10 off my m.2 and put both on separate sata 2.5" ssd's this morning so I'm ready for shit to hit the fan lol

11 screwed the permissions up on 1 small hdd I use for a few images for 10 & 11 I couldn't even see it under computer only on disk management and free minitool would show it but showed it as logical not primary
So yeah I couldn't even create a folder or delete an old image.

R-T-B · Oct 13, 2021

FireFox said:
Did anyone force you to buy AMD?

No one is forcing you to use Windows 11 either.

This is pisspoor logic as most Ryzens are supposedly supported by MS.

lexluthermiester said:
Those two things are not related. Kernel level drivers are created for CPUs just like any other piece of hardware and the code is compiled for each as needed for the capability of each CPU family. These problems are very specific to the way Windows interacts with Ryzen CPU's. It is not related to anything Intel.

I'm not buying it. It's too coincidental that it's been fixed for months in the dev branch, but they can't bother to push the fix until after the Alder Lake launch.

I'm normally a critic of conspiracy theories but this one stinks... bad.

And if it's not that, it's massive incompetence that will still impact reviews for AMD on launch day of AL. It's not like incompetence with good intentions is much better if the end result is the same...

FireFox · Oct 13, 2021

R-T-B said:
No one is forcing you to use Windows 11 either.

I don't get your point.
Isn't me complaining about W11, maybe i misunderstood your post?

zlobby · Oct 13, 2021

R-T-B said:
I'm normally a critic of conspiracy theories but this one stinks... bad.

Mhm. It's tinfoil hat wackos until their theories start to have merit and a sound logic. This doesn't automatically make all conspiracy theories true, just saying sometimes it's useful to cast the prejudice aside and take an unbiased look deeper inside.

Bubster · Oct 13, 2021

Windows 11 was very fast in snappy upon rollout, i tried it on 1 of my 3 machines and it was fantastic until the early august update and then they fucked it up with some crappy update that ruined that fast and snappy experience. I thought the Microsoft of Ballmer is long gone. Alas

R-T-B · Oct 13, 2021

FireFox said:
I don't get your point.
Isn't me complaining about W11, maybe i misunderstood your post?

Maybe I misunderstood yours?

Ah no worries, who cares mate no harm done... lol.

Why_Me · Oct 13, 2021

If you install a new OS when its first released then you deserve all the misery you get imo.

System Name	Personal / HTPC
Processor	Ryzen 5900x / Ryzen 5600X3D
Motherboard	Asrock x570 Phantom Gaming 4 /ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming
Cooling	Corsair H100i / bequiet! Pure Rock Slim 2
Memory	32GB DDR4 3200 / 16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s)	EVGA XC3 Ultra RTX 3080Ti / EVGA RTX 3060 XC
Storage	500GB Pro 970, 250 GB SSD, 1TB & 500GB Western Digital / lots
Display(s)	Dell - S3220DGF & S3222DGM 32"
Case	Titan Silent 2 / CM HAF XB Evo
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G35 headset
Power Supply	850W SeaSonic X Series / 750W SeaSonic X Series
Mouse	Logitech G502
Keyboard	Black Microsoft Natural Elite Keyboard
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64 / Windows 10 Pro 64

Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W
Motherboard	MSI B550 Tomahawk
Cooling	ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA
Memory	2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB
Storage	Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB
Display(s)	AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz
Case	SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK
Audio Device(s)	Realtek 7.1 onboard
Power Supply	Seasonic Core GC 500W
Mouse	Sharkoon SHARK Force Black
Keyboard	Trust GXT280
Software	Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux

System Name	Dumbass
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling	Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory	G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s)	GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage	Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s)	1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case	Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s)	onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply	Corsair HX1000i
Mouse	Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard	Corsair K100
Software	windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores	https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2

Processor	Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard	Asus H670 TUF
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 34
Memory	2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage	500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s)	Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case	Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s)	Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply	Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard	G.Skill KM780R
Software	Arch Linux + Win10

System Name	The Expanse
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D
Motherboard	Asus Prime X670E-Pro Wifi BIOS 3222 AGESA PI 1.2.0.3a
Cooling	Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT
Memory	64GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 6000 CL 30-40-40-96 1T
Video Card(s)	XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air (25.5.1)
Storage	WD SN850X 2TB / Corsair MP600 1TB / Samsung 860Evo 1TB x2 Raid 0 / Asus NAS AS1004T V2 20TB
Display(s)	LG 34GP83A-B 34 Inch 21: 9 UltraGear Curved QHD (3440 x 1440) 1ms Nano IPS 160Hz
Case	Fractal Design Meshify S2
Audio Device(s)	Creative X-Fi + Logitech Z-5500 + HS80 Wireless
Power Supply	Corsair AX850 Titanium
Mouse	Corsair Dark Core RGB SE
Keyboard	Corsair K100
Software	Windows 10 Pro x64 22H2
Benchmark Scores	https://valid.x86.fr/0412jp https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11073923

System Name	stress-less
Processor	9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard	MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory	64GB DDR5 6600 1:2 CL36, FCLK 2200
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 FE
Storage	2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s)	Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case	Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s)	Yes
Power Supply	Corsair SF750
Mouse	DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard	65% HE Keyboard
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	They're pretty good, nothing crazy.

Processor	AMD 5900x
Motherboard	Asus x570 Strix-E
Cooling	Hardware Labs
Memory	G.Skill 4000c17 2x16gb
Video Card(s)	RTX 3090
Storage	Sabrent
Display(s)	Samsung G9
Case	Phanteks 719
Audio Device(s)	Fiio K5 Pro
Power Supply	EVGA 1000 P2
Mouse	Logitech G600
Keyboard	Corsair K95

Processor	Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15
Memory	32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s)	KUROUTOSHIKOU RTX 5080 GALAKURO
Storage	2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s)	Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case	NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s)	Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply	Corsair 850W
Mouse	Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software	Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores	30FPS in NFS:Rivals

System Name	MSI GP76
Processor	intel i7 11800h
Cooling	2 laptop fans
Memory	32gb of 3000mhz DDR4
Video Card(s)	Nvidia 3070
Storage	x2 PNY 8tb cs2130 m.2 SSD--16tb of space
Display(s)	17.3" IPS 1920x1080 240Hz
Power Supply	280w laptop power supply
Mouse	Logitech m705
Keyboard	laptop keyboard
Software	lots of movies and Windows 10 with win 7 shell
Benchmark Scores	Good enough for me

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen 9 9950X
Motherboard	MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk Wifi
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon, Phanteks and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	128GB (4x 32GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-4200(Running 1:1:1 w/FCLK)
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 5800X Optane 800GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs, 1x 2TB Seagate Exos 3.5"
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64, other office machines run Windows 11 Enterprise

Processor	Intel i7 10700K
Motherboard	Asus ROG Maximus XII Hero
Cooling	2x Black Ice Nemesis GTX 480 - 1x Black Ice Nemesis GTX 420 - D5 VPP655P - 13x Corsair LL120 - LL140
Memory	32GB G.SKILL Trident Z RGB 3600Hz
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEFORCE RTX 3080 XC3 Ultra
Storage	Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 500GB/1TB - WD Blue SN550 1TB - 2 X WD Blue 1TB - 3 X WD Black 1TB
Display(s)	Asus ROG PG278QR 2560x1440 144Hz (Overclocked 165Hz )/ Samsung
Case	Corsair Obsidian 1000D
Audio Device(s)	I prefer Gaming-Headset
Power Supply	Enermax MaxTytan 1250W 80+ Titanium
Mouse	Logitech G502 spectrum
Keyboard	Virtuis Advanced Gaming Keyboard ( Batboard )
Software	Windows 10 Enterprise/Windows 10 Pro/Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores	My PC runs FiFA

System Name	BUBSTER
Processor	I7 13700K (6.1 GHZ XTU OC)
Motherboard	Z690 Gigabyte Aorus Elite Pro
Cooling	Arctic Freezer II 360 RGB
Memory	32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4 4800MHz 2x16GB
Video Card(s)	Asus GeForce RTX 3070 Super Dual OC
Storage	Kingston KC 3000 PCIE4 1Tb + 2 Kingston KC 3000 1TB PCIE4 RAID 0 + 4 TB Crucial gen 4 +12 TB HDD
Display(s)	Sony Bravia A85 j OLED
Case	Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar Essence STX II
Power Supply	Corsair AX 850 Titanium
Mouse	Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB + Razr Taipan
Keyboard	Asus ROG Strix Flare Cherry MX Red + Corsair Gaming K65 lux RGB
Software	Windows 11 Pro x64

First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday Makes Ryzen L3 Cache Latency Worse, AMD Puts Out Fix Dates

The Power Of Intel