FreeSync / Gsync flicker

[FoulOnWhite]

Why do I not have that button (GPU scheduling)? I've tried reinstalling the GPU driver, but no luck.
My settings menu looks like this for some reason:
View attachment 316983


That might explain it. I don't see it at high frame rates when the refresh rate is the same as the frame rate, and I also don't see it at very low frame rates when LFC is constantly on. I only see it at very specific scenarios when my FPS hovers around 50. This is my main reason for not wanting to tinker with CRU - it's not really worth it.

On a different note, I've just plugged in the Club3D cable. Tests are coming.

I found the gpu scheduling thing and turned it off, my cable should come today, be interested to see if there is/i notice any difference.

 

[AusWolf]

I found the gpu scheduling thing and turned it off, my cable should come today, be interested to see if there is/i notice any difference.

Probably not if you're not using FreeSync (VRR).

 

[tabascosauz]

I also don't see it at very low frame rates when LFC is constantly on

This is literally the whole objective of changing VRR range and what i have been talking about all this time lol

I don't know why all this was so hard to find when I was first grappling with the issue, but now there's apparently AMD and Nvidia specific info on this.

In hindsight, it now makes a lot of sense why 60fps force locked games suffer the most, because apparently they sit right on that 60Hz LFC boundary for G-SYNC Compatible. The same games on what limited Radeon experience I had with Freesync Premium, weren't quite as bad.

AMD:

Let’s say you have a 144Hz VA gaming monitor with brightness flickering in some of your games. There are two main reasons you get brightness flickering: LFC and frequent FPS fluctuation.

So, you might be able to increase the VRR range to 30-144Hz on one monitor, while another unit of the same monitor might not even go to 47-144Hz.
In the latter case, you can try decreasing the range instead so that LFC doesn’t get triggered — or you can disable LFC completely by decreasing the range to 73-144Hz.

In fact, LFC with AMD cards only works if the lower end of the VRR range is at least 2x the maximum refresh rate. For instance, 30-60Hz VRR range means that LFC works, but with 31-60Hz, there’s no LFC support.

Nvidia:

When using FreeSync with a supported NVIDIA graphics card via the G-SYNC Compatible mode, LFC behaves a bit differently than it does with AMD cards. LFC gets triggered regardless of the monitor’s FreeSync range.

Further, the LFC threshold is usually different when using an NVIDIA GPU. For instance, with many 48-144Hz FreeSync monitors, LFC kicks in at around 60FPS with NVIDIA cards! Due to this, FPS fluctuations around the LFC threshold will cause the monitor to rapidly go up and down with refresh rates thus causing brightness flickering.

https://www.displayninja.com/what-is-freesync-brightness-flickering/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/ap6i5l/one_big_difference_in_nvidias_adaptive_sync/

 

[AusWolf]

This is literally the whole objective of changing VRR range and what i have been talking about all this time lol

I don't know why all this was so hard to find when I was first grappling with the issue, but now there's apparently AMD and Nvidia specific info on this.

In hindsight, it now makes a lot of sense why 60fps force locked games suffer the most, because apparently they sit right on that 60Hz LFC boundary for G-SYNC Compatible. The same games on what limited Radeon experience I had with Freesync Premium, weren't quite as bad.

AMD:


Nvidia:


https://www.displayninja.com/what-is-freesync-brightness-flickering/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/ap6i5l/one_big_difference_in_nvidias_adaptive_sync/

This is very interesting and useful, thanks!

I might have to do just that, as there seems to be some flicker even with the Club3D cable. Even lowering the desktop refresh rate to 60 Hz doesn't solve it (tested with Youtube), as in that case, it just keeps jumping between 48 and 60 Hz when playing a video. The only solution without CRU is disabling VRR and running a constant 144 Hz.

Edit: Is it possible to disable LFC?

 

[tabascosauz]

This is very interesting and useful, thanks!

I might have to do just that, as there seems to be some flicker even with the Club3D cable. Even lowering the desktop refresh rate to 60 Hz doesn't solve it (tested with Youtube), as in that case, it just keeps jumping between 48 and 60 Hz when playing a video. The only solution without CRU is disabling VRR and running a constant 144 Hz.

Edit: Is it possible to disable LFC?

Hmmmmm. If the info in the article is true, the possible methods (lower VRR lower limit, higher VRR limit) need CRU. Not gonna lie, I don't really understand the reticence to use CRU haha, you only have to set it once.

Are you sure it's Freesync flickering and not something else VA-specific? iirc Freesync straight up doesn't work in windowed mode (unlike G-sync which has an option (not on by default) that is mediocre). Neither Freesync nor LFC should be in play while you're just in your browser watching Youtube.

 

[AusWolf]

Hmmmmm. If the info in the article is true, the possible methods (lower VRR lower limit, higher VRR limit) need CRU. Not gonna lie, I don't really understand the reticence to use CRU haha, you only have to set it once.

I just don't want to have another program installed. I have way too many already.

I also don't want to be messing with the monitor's properties. Its lower VRR limit is 48 Hz for a reason, I assume.

Are you sure it's Freesync flickering and not something else VA-specific? iirc Freesync straight up doesn't work in windowed mode (unlike G-sync which has an option (not on by default) that is mediocre). Neither Freesync nor LFC should be in play while you're just in your browser watching Youtube.

It's only like that with a full screen video. Playing in a window keeps the refresh rate at 144 Hz and there's no flickering.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I just don't want to have another program installed. I have way too many already.

I also don't want to be messing with the monitor's properties. Its lower VRR limit is 48 Hz for a reason, I assume.


It's only like that with a full screen video. Playing in a window keeps the refresh rate at 144 Hz and there's no flickering.

What game is it flickering, as we have the same monitor i could test on mine. Not sure it would work ok though as we have differing GPU's, I have Freesync off as i am not sure if it even works with Nvidia.

 

[AusWolf]

What game is it flickering, as we have the same monitor i could test on mine. Not sure it would work ok though as we have differing GPU's, I have Freesync off as i am not sure if it even works with Nvidia.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but only in areas where my frame rate is around the 50s. Also noticed some in fullscreen 30 FPS Youtube videos.

But you won't have any flicker without FreeSync, as that's what triggers it. If I turn it off, everything's smooth on my end, too.

Edit: Whether FreeSync works on Nvidia or not depends on whether the Nvidia driver supports this monitor or not.

 

[BicycleBicycle]

I just don't want to have another program installed. I have way too many already.

I also don't want to be messing with the monitor's properties. Its lower VRR limit is 48 Hz for a reason, I assume.


It's only like that with a full screen video. Playing in a window keeps the refresh rate at 144 Hz and there's no flickering.

The program is standalone executable file (no install). You're also not messing with the monitor's hardware or anything, just modifying the profile in Windows and how it interacts with the monitor. The default profile is derived from the monitor/drivers, all CRU is doing is telling Windows to modify that profile to use this VRR range instead.
Once you edit the range with CRU, it becomes your new native profile in Display settings.
CRU does not need to run constantly, nor does it even need to remain on the computer. After modifying the profile, you can just delete CRU if you wish.

 

[r0ach]

I get what you're saying though. Games in general, esp first person feel consoley, and even if its not input lag 'sauce' you feel, its just the half-drunk camera movement whenever characters move around, or all the 'natural' delays built into every activity (hold button to use...).

- Which is why the first thing I do in every single game is turn off Ambient occlussion, Depth of field, Vignette, Bloom, Anti-Aliasing, and even use trilinear filtering instead of anistropic because there's a larger lag hit with anistropic in many games for some reason (YMMV with different GPUs and drivers, though).

- I also used to hate the existence of middleware engines like Unreal because it makes every game 'samey,' but I've noticed the gunplay in UE4 is pretty good (with all post-processing disabled) compared to a lot of other engines.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I got the new cable, not sure if there are any tests i can do to see how good it is though. It is a nice cable though.

 

[rodrigoxm49]

Nvidia:
When using FreeSync with a supported NVIDIA graphics card via the G-SYNC Compatible mode, LFC behaves a bit differently than it does with AMD cards. LFC gets triggered regardless of the monitor’s FreeSync range.

Further, the LFC threshold is usually different when using an NVIDIA GPU. For instance, with many 48-144Hz FreeSync monitors, LFC kicks in at around 60FPS with NVIDIA cards! Due to this, FPS fluctuations around the LFC threshold will cause the monitor to rapidly go up and down with refresh rates thus causing brightness flickering.

Wow. This is probably why 45~60FPS is really terrible in my VRR panel. I have a RTX and a Freesync monitor. Is there something I can do to fix it? CRU? 48-144 to 38-144 will help me?

 

[AusWolf]

Wow. This is probably why 45~60FPS is really terrible in my VRR panel. I have a RTX and a Freesync monitor. Is there something I can do to fix it?

Using CRU to change the low VRR limit has been suggested. Otherwise, disabling VRR seems to be the only option.

 

[rodrigoxm49]

Using CRU to change the low VRR limit has been suggested. Otherwise, disabling VRR seems to be the only option.

Changed from 48~144 to 38~144.

I don't know if its placebo, but I have tested in 5 games now and god... Completely playable at 50FPS. So very different experience than before. I noticed that games with good motion blur implementation works even better. Like Control or Jedi Fallen order. Amazingly smooth. Games with bad or no motion blur implementation are better too, but not that much.

 

[tabascosauz]

Wow. This is probably why 45~60FPS is really terrible in my VRR panel. I have a RTX and a Freesync monitor. Is there something I can do to fix it? CRU? 48-144 to 38-144 will help me?

The idea on Nvidia is to raise the VRR floor to 80-90, not lower it, to prevent LFC from turning off. Though if lower works, great. Didn't do jack on either one of mine. Takes a while to tell for sure when testing this stuff, keep an eye on it.

 

[AusWolf]

Changed from 48~144 to 38~144.

I don't know if its placebo, but I have tested in 5 games now and god... Completely playable at 50FPS. So very different experience than before. I noticed that games with good motion blur implementation works even better. Like Control or Jedi Fallen order. Amazingly smooth. Games with bad or no motion blur implementation are better too, but not that much.

The idea on Nvidia is to raise the VRR floor to 80-90, not lower it, to prevent LFC from turning off. Though if lower works, great. Didn't do jack on either one of mine. Takes a while to tell for sure when testing this stuff, keep an eye on it.

I just did a test myself.

Lowering to 36 doesn't work. The monitor turns off as soon as VRR activates.
Lowering to 40 doesn't work, either. The monitor worked for a few seconds before turning off, although the flickers were still there during that time.
Raising it to 72 makes LFC flickers a lot less noticeable, but they're still there.


I guess CRU helps with some monitors, but it doesn't with others. I'm one of the unlucky ones, it seems. Oh well...

 

[tabascosauz]

I just did a test myself.

Lowering to 36 doesn't work. The monitor turns off as soon as VRR activates.
Lowering to 40 doesn't work, either. The monitor worked for a few seconds before turning off, although the flickers were still there during that time.
Raising it to 72 makes LFC flickers a lot less noticeable, but they're still there.


I guess CRU helps with some monitors, but it doesn't with others. I'm one of the unlucky ones, it seems. Oh well...

Yeah but you don't have Nvidia either. That's what the AMD specific info up there is for. As for lowering, unfortunately, it is a panel lottery crapshoot.

80 is not perfect for me. I have to start at 90 to be safe.

 

[AusWolf]

Yeah but you don't have Nvidia either. That's what the AMD specific info up there is for. As for lowering, unfortunately, it is a panel lottery crapshoot.

The AMD info says that LFC only works if the high end of the range is at least 2x the low end. So if I understand it right, a 30 FPS fullscreen video with a 72-144 Hz VRR range should trigger LFC to be constantly on (or to stay off). But it doesn't. Even with the standard 48-144 Hz, it should theoretically trigger LFC to force 60 or 90 Hz, but instead of that, it keeps jumping all over the place, which results in backlight flickers.

I guess I drew the short straw on the panel lottery. I'm giving up. I'll try to put up with LFC for now. If I can't, I'll just disable FreeSync and call it a day. I'm not mad at my choice of buying this monitor, but it boggles my mind that hardware manufacturers manage to get away with shipping with features that don't, or just partially work, and nobody calls them out in the reviews.

Edit: Okay, a 96-144 Hz range completely disables LFC... but with such a short range, I might as well just have FreeSync off.

 

[tabascosauz]

The AMD info says that LFC only works if the high end of the range is at least 2x the low end. So if I understand it right, a 30 FPS fullscreen video with a 72-144 Hz VRR range should trigger LFC to be constantly on (or to stay off). But it doesn't. Even with the standard 48-144 Hz, it should theoretically trigger LFC to force 60 or 90 Hz, but instead of that, it keeps jumping all over the place, which results in backlight flickers.

I guess I drew the short straw on the panel lottery. I'm giving up. I'll try to put up with LFC for now. If I can't, I'll just disable FreeSync and call it a day. I'm not mad at my choice of buying this monitor, but it boggles my mind that hardware manufacturers manage to get away with shipping with features that don't, or just partially work, and nobody calls them out in the reviews.

Edit: Okay, a 96-144 Hz range completely disables LFC... but with such a short range, I might as well just have FreeSync off.

I guess the two immediate solutions would be to go to Nvidia where LFC doesn't get disabled and doesn't flicker in Youtube, or a hardware G-sync monitor, but neither are cost-effective at all I personally considered it at one point but it just doesn't make sense for 1 or 2 games.

Like I said, I can't really speak much for Radeon gaming due to lack of experience, but I can speak for YouTube, and I didn't have any issues with flickering there or Freesync even being engaged in that case. Maybe it's a browser thing. Or a monitor specific issue.

Or keep a 60Hz monitor on the side for these few games? I would if I could but the GW2765HT is needed elsewhere.

Regrettably, although the flickering is pretty much a "feature" of Freesync Premium, it still varies greatly from monitor to monitor and game to game, so I don't expect most reviewers to be able to report reliably on the issue.

Did you remember to restart64.exe after every CRU change?

 

[AusWolf]

Did you remember to restart64.exe after every CRU change?

Yes. It didn't do anything otherwise.

I guess the two immediate solutions would be to go to Nvidia where LFC doesn't get disabled and doesn't flicker in Youtube, or a hardware G-sync monitor, but neither are cost-effective at all

Well, I've still got a 2070 on the shelf.

I've also got a really strange idea. What if I put a single-slot Nvidia card into the secondary x16 slot and connected the monitor to it through HDMI? That way, I could swap between Nvidia and AMD with the touch of a button. It might even be possible to configure the system to only use the Nvidia card as monitor output and do the rendering on AMD, like it does in dual GPU systems.

Or keep a 60Hz monitor on the side for these few games? I would if I could but the GW2765HT is needed elsewhere.

I still have my old 1080p monitor, as I generally don't bother selling stuff for pennies. They do much better service as spare parts if something goes wrong. Desk space (or the lack of it) is a bigger problem.

Regrettably, although the flickering is pretty much a "feature" of Freesync Premium, it still varies greatly from monitor to monitor and game to game, so I don't expect most reviewers to be able to report reliably on the issue.

It feels very "premium" indeed. (the feature - not the monitor - the monitor is actually great except for this tiny thing with LFC)

 

[FiftyTifty]

With my Vega 56, I noticed that I get flickering with Freesync when in Borderless Windowed (on Windows 10 LTSC 2021). But Exclusive Fullscreen does not. Saw this on all three of my Freesync monitors: HP Omen W9S97AA (FreeSync), IIyama Prolite XB3288UHSU-b1 (Freesync), and on my current Samsung Odyssey G32A (Freesync Premium).

The worst case of it for me is in Total War Warhammer 2 and 3 during loading screens.

 

[AusWolf]

With my Vega 56, I noticed that I get flickering with Freesync when in Borderless Windowed (on Windows 10 LTSC 2021). But Exclusive Fullscreen does not. Saw this on all three of my Freesync monitors: HP Omen W9S97AA (FreeSync), IIyama Prolite XB3288UHSU-b1 (Freesync), and on my current Samsung Odyssey G32A (Freesync Premium).

The worst case of it for me is in Total War Warhammer 2 and 3 during loading screens.

Yeah, loading screens and the first couple of seconds of gameplay seem to be the worst, but only if my FPS is in the low 50s - no flicker above, or below that, except in Youtube fullscreen.

Speaking of which... I installed the new Radeon driver (23.10.1) yesterday. I just watched a Youtube video, and it didn't seem to flicker as much as it has before, so there's something fishy here with the drivers as well.

 

[Waldorf]

uninstall all drivers incl chipset, reboot to safe mode, clean with DDU,
reinstall chipset/gpu driver..

 

[BicycleBicycle]

Yeah, loading screens and the first couple of seconds of gameplay seem to be the worst, but only if my FPS is in the low 50s - no flicker above, or below that, except in Youtube fullscreen.

Speaking of which... I installed the new Radeon driver (23.10.1) yesterday. I just watched a Youtube video, and it didn't seem to flicker as much as it has before, so there's something fishy here with the drivers as well.

Just out of curiosity, Is it possible to enable/disable VRR on per app basis? can you exclude Chrome from using VRR?

Also just a heads on that driver, I don't know what games you play but I would avoid using Anti-Lag+ for any competitive games. Apparently it's causing issues from crashing to getting banned and the driver was pulled by AMD until it's updated.

 

[AusWolf]

Just out of curiosity, Is it possible to enable/disable VRR on per app basis? can you exclude Chrome from using VRR?

I didn't think it was possible because Chrome didn't appear on the app list. Now that you mentioned it, I just found that you can add games (programs) manually. It worked like a charm. Thank you!

Also just a heads on that driver, I don't know what games you play but I would avoid using Anti-Lag+ for any competitive games. Apparently it's causing issues from crashing to getting banned and the driver was pulled by AMD until it's updated.

I don't play competitive games, but thanks for the heads-up.