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Full time Linux user and gamer?

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Is it really worth the fuss? :)
I don't know how you guys game. I'd imagine most people use their PCs for other things and jump into games for longer sessions when they have time.
I'd also imagine that "more than just a light gamer" also cares for having pretty clean environment for best gaming performance, i.e. he kills everything expendable and doesn't really care what OS is running underneath.

So what exactly is wrong with dual-boot? :) With a fast SSD and clean OS instances, switching will take a minute.
I was a Linux user for a long time - jumping to Windows just for games. It didn't paralyze my life and back then rebooting took 5 minutes, maybe more.

To be honest, gaming kind of makes a mess on a PC anyway. I mean drivers, Steam, GOG and all this crapware. I'm currently playing 2 games on the PC (very occasionally), but I have 5 gaming platforms installed (Steam, Blizzard, GOG, Uplay and Origin)...
I'd rather not think about any of it. I'm getting too old for this. Heh..

But I kind of wish everyone had good options. It should be similar as iOS is compared to Android. They're practically the same, app-store wise. edit: Or XBox vs PS4, for that matter.
 
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When linux came out I can still remember my first thoughts. I was helping teach a class on computer repair at a local college and a friend handed me a floppy that had linux written in a black marker on it and I laughed at the name. Ripoff of unix was my first thought...and this ain't going nowhere was my second. I played around with it for awhile, but ended up treating it like OS/2's kid brother. I 86'd it.

Never....thought I'd be using it full time.....o_O.

Then again, I thought I'd be a programmer in Assembler, Fortran, COBOL, C, or Basic. Ended up in finance....:).

Best,

Liquid Cool
 
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When linux came out I can still remember my first thoughts. I was helping teach a class on computer repair at a local college and a friend handed me a floppy that had linux written in a black marker on it and I laughed at the name. Ripoff of unix was my first thought...and this ain't going nowhere was my second. I played around with it for awhile, but ended up treating it like OS/2's kid brother. I 86'd it.

Never....thought I'd be using it full time.....o_O.

Then again, I thought I'd be a programmer in Assembler, Fortran, COBOL, C, or Basic. Ended up in finance....:).

Best,

Liquid Cool
I kind of wish it never succeeded...or at least, got so huge.. because I like BSD more. Heh. But it came at just the right time, when BSD was having legal issues. I've said this elsewhere, but I think gaming and commercial support would have picked up more if Linux wasn't GNU-based. One look at what Apple and Sony did with BSD shows how quickly the commercial world can work with this.. if they're not constrained.
 
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StrayKAT,

Yes...I can remember you mentioning this...:).

For the record. You didn't receive any disagreement from me.

Albeit...I am not a fan of the way EULA's have gone....that's a whole 'nother topic though.

:),

Liquid Cool
 
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StrayKAT,

Yes...I can remember you mentioning this...:).

For the record. You didn't receive any disagreement from me.

Albeit...I am not a fan of the way EULA's have gone....that's a whole 'nother topic though.

:),

Liquid Cool
I do want to tie it into the topic though, because I think Steam is limited in what they can do to simplify things and truly customize Linux. And part of it is because of licensing and GNU's compulsion to seed back to the open source community. BSD licenses make no such demands.. a company is free to be as proprietary and/or closed as they want with their code and don't have to give it up to open source. It also doesn't scare driver developers away so much. To use FreeBSD's own words, GNU is a "legal timebomb".

In contrast to the GPL, which is designed to prevent the proprietary commercialization of Open Source code, the BSD license places minimal restrictions on future behavior. This allows BSD code to remain Open Source or become integrated into commercial solutions, as a project's or company's needs change. In other words, the BSD license does not become a legal time-bomb at any point in the development process.

In addition, since the BSD license does not come with the legal complexity of the GPL or LGPL licenses, it allows developers and companies to spend their time creating and promoting good code rather than worrying if that code violates licensing.




But I still think Steam can make things "good enough" at least.
 
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I hope no one minds me posting this video in the thread. It actually seemed "somewhat" relevant to the topic. I was actually a little shocked when I saw the title to the video...never thought I'd see Linus commenting on Steam Play/Proton.


Best Regards,

Liquid Cool
 
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Aquinus

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Gaming on Linux is easy! STEP 1: Open Terminal...

Aaaaaaand that's why I'm not using Linux...
Unfortunately, there isn't an easier way to to do things like installing Oibaf or Padoka's Mesa GIT builds because, why in the world would I want to compile it from source myself. To get proton to work, you only need the Padoka/Oibaf PPA and if you're like me using the plain AMDGPU driver, then I need the Mesa vulkan driver as well. Beyond installing those two things, you don't really need to open the terminal but, once those are installed, you don't need to use the terminal at all. If you use a nVidia card or the AMDGPU-Pro driver, you don't need to open the terminal at all IIRC to use Proton.

In all seriousness, Proton is pretty great. It's not perfect but, I can play a lot of games in Steam through it such as DOOM, Skyrim, Supreme Commander 2, and Banished. The only one that hasn't worked for me at all is the "Homeworld Remastered Collection" and all run okay at 4k. Only DOOM can't maintain 60 FPS but, I can run it in Vulkan.

With that all said, I think Linus is a tool and my preference is to not read or watch content from him.
 
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The fact you need to use Terminal AT ALL in year 2018 is the reason I try Linux almost every other year and delete it 15 minutes later because it's designed by morons. But Linux will overtake Windows, next year. For sure! Oh boy I've been listening about this for last 15 years or so...

If Linux wasn't designed by clueless nerds who can't think outside of their tiny little box, Linux would be a superpower used by millions and millions of people. Instead it's this bizarre frankenOS with next to zero regard for unified and standardized design of pretty much anything. And they always have this excuse "uh oh if you don't like this distro, then use some other". This is the exact problem with Linux. I don't want 400 million distros. I want just 1 that actually frigging works. It's why Windows works, it's why MacOS works and it's why Android (even with massive version fragmentation) and iOS work. I always thought sticking with most used distro like Ubuntu would solve these issues, but it just doesn't. It's still this awkward clumsy OS to work with I'd frankly rather pay 300€ for Windows and be done with it. And that's basically exactly what I'm doing and unless makers of Linux get their heads out of their own rears, I'll continue to do so. The saying "You get what you pay for" literally applies 120% here.
 
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Aquinus

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The fact you need to use Terminal AT ALL in year 2018 is the reason I try Linux almost every other year and delete it 15 minutes later because it's designed by morons. But Linux will overtake Windows, next year. For sure! Oh boy I've been listening about this for last 15 years or so...

If Linux wasn't designed by clueless nerds who can't think outside of their tiny little box, Linux would be a superpower used by millions and millions of people. Instead it's this bizarre frankenOS with next to zero regard for unified and standardized design of pretty much anything. And they always have this excuse "uh oh if you don't like this distro, then use some other". This is the exact problem with Linux. I don't want 400 million distros. I want just 1 that actually frigging works. It's why Windows works, it's why MacOS works and it's why Android (even with massive version fragmentation) and iOS work. I always thought sticking with most used distro like Ubuntu would solve these issues, but it just doesn't. It's still this awkward clumsy OS to work with I'd frankly rather pay 300€ for Windows and be done with it. And that's basically exactly what I'm doing and unless makers of Linux get their heads out of their own rears, I'll continue to do so. The saying "You get what you pay for" literally applies 120% here.


Are you scared of the terminal or do you hold that opinion in the same place as all of your rants about things like your E-450 (or was it 350?) ...or maybe it's that you just attack things you don't want to or simply refuse to understand. I understand it not being straightforward but, of all the things to get pissy about... Linux? Really? ...and it's not even really about Linux, you're whining about distros. Just pick one and get over yourself. If you cared (which you don't,) you would learn how to use it instead of whining about it.

You also must have missed this:
If you use a nVidia card or the AMDGPU-Pro driver, you don't need to open the terminal at all IIRC to use Proton.
Also: Remember what sub-forum you're in, buddy. There is a good bet that none of us actually care how much you don't like Linux.
 
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If stuff from Autodesk worked on Linux I'd probably be using it full time. For gaming, most if not all games I want to play work, since I barely play anything new. Other than that I use Mint for word processing and general study/research on my scrap laptop actually pretty often and, apart from an occasional hiccup or the need to search for a solution for a problem, it's pretty straightforward, even for a Linux noob like me.
 
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Gaming on Linux is easy! STEP 1: Open Terminal...

Aaaaaaand that's why I'm not using Linux...
That's because Linus is not the sharpest hammer in the axe rack.
If we ignore proton for a sec, all you need to do is:
a) Install proprietary drivers, which you'll probably find popping-up in the tray soon after your first updates get installed
b) Install Steam from Ubuntu software center or just download the installer from steampowered.com
c) Play games
At least on 4 of my past NVidia cards that's all that is necessary to run games with existing Linux ports.

The reason I and millions of users use terminal in Ubuntu, is because certain things are easier and faster to do this way. Same goes for Windows, especially since Powershell started shipping with the OS and made my life much easier. If you consider yourself a PC enthusiast, then you should embrace the command line and all the stuff you can do with it.
Think of it this way (I'll try to describe it in noob-friendly terms, just to make it easier for you): terminal commands are like keyboard shortcuts - press a combination and you've already performed a task, while more intuitive UI is an equivalent of using mouse context menu for the same operation - even a grandma can do it, but it's painstakingly slow and has many unnecessary steps.
 
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Are you scared of the terminal or do you hold that opinion in the same place as all of your rants about things like your E-450 (or was it 350?) ...or maybe it's that you just attack things you don't want to or simply refuse to understand. I understand it not being straightforward but, of all the things to get pissy about... Linux? Really? ...and it's not even really about Linux, you're whining about distros. Just pick one and get over yourself. If you cared (which you don't,) you would learn how to use it instead of whining about it.

You also must have missed this:


Also: Remember what sub-forum you're in, buddy. There is a good bet that none of us actually care how much you don't like Linux.
It's not just him. He's speaking on behalf of a lot of people, whether he knows it or not. Pushing Linux on to average gamers and people is just misguided and misleading.
 
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Think of it this way (I'll try to describe it in noob-friendly terms, just to make it easier for you): terminal commands are like keyboard shortcuts - press a combination and you've already performed a task, while more intuitive UI is an equivalent of using mouse context menu for the same operation - even a grandma can do it, but it's painstakingly slow and has many unnecessary steps.
That's a funny example. You know why? Because vast majority of PC users don't know any combinations beside the few ubiquitous ones used in text editing (ctrl+z/x/c/v/f). Many PC users don't use keyboard shortcuts at all. AT ALL.
And you're asking people to use a terminal. :-o
@RejZoR is 100% correct in this case.
 
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I'm not scared of the terminal, but I'm also like "Danny Glover".. Getting too old for this sh*t.

Also, I have to laugh that I can't even easily use a Netgear A7000 (usb wifi).. even though the drivers exist. The solution? Even on Ubuntu?

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install git dkms
git clone https://github.com/zebulon2/rtl8814au.git
sudo dkms add ./rtl8814au
sudo dkms build -m rtl8814au -v 4.3.21
sudo dkms install -m rtl8814au -v 4.3.21


lmao.. so I have to connect to the net and Github, in order to install a driver to connect to the net? :shadedshu:

It's still as pathetic as it was 20 years ago.

When people say they want an easier to use Linux, what they want is Mac OS X (which is BSD UNIX). And Jobs accomplished that years before Linux did with NextStep (which is what OS X is based off of). This is 1980s era tech and Linux is still a mess.

And what gamers specifically want in an easy to use *nix is basically the PS4. Which is also BSD. Sony accomplished this within a couple of years.. and conquers the world with it.
 
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It's still as pathetic as it was 20 years ago.
It is, because the whole Linux community would like it to be like 20 years ago. That's the goal.
Of course Linux could be made easier to use, more mouse-operated, automated and so on. But they choose it not to be.
That's the whole point.

MS and Apple make an OS that's for other people. They're making an advanced tech product easy and accessible for non-tech users.
Linux community makes OSes for the Linux community.
And it goes further in the whole FOSS world. Adobe makes a photo editing tool for people that take photos.
Linux community makes (multiple) photo editing tools for other coding geeks.

The whole environment is kind of messed up. :-/
For a long time I didn't really expect any solution to this problem, but there is one now. If Microsoft pushes WSL hard enough, it could force large Linux distros to adjust. We may finally see polished, paid versions for consumers. Canonical should have done that years ago.
 

Aquinus

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It is, because the whole Linux community would like it to be like 20 years ago. That's the goal.
Of course Linux could be made easier to use, more mouse-operated, automated and so on. But they choose it not to be.
That's the whole point.
None of that even has anything to do with Linux itself though which shows how ill-informed you are. What you're describing is how the window managers should work which is something different than the kernel itself. That's a complaint with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, Unity, i3, etc and not with Linux. The problem is that people don't even know what to actually complain about. Kernel development has absolutely nothing to do with what you described. It's not like when Windows 8 came out that people said, "This UI sucks, blame the NT kernel!" So why in the world would you blame Linux itself for a problem like this?

For clarity, lets get this out of the way: Linux is the kernel, not the entire experience.

The simple fact is that if you install Ubuntu and have a nVidia card, you don't even need to touch a terminal to get going. If you have an AMD card, you need it just to install the drivers (if you want something other than the Radeon or plain AMDGPU driver for newer GCN card,) and even that can be made to run automatically.

lmao.. so I have to connect to the net and Github, in order to install a driver to connect to the net? :shadedshu:
That's not any different than needing a wifi driver in Windows but, needing to connect to the internet to get it. Windows doesn't solve that problem. :slap:

I will admit that wifi support needs to be better but, who's fault is it that the driver is crap? The kernel team, the distro, or the device manufacturer? If AMD or nVidia makes a bad driver, who do you blame?
It's not just him. He's speaking on behalf of a lot of people, whether he knows it or not. Pushing Linux on to average gamers and people is just misguided and misleading.
Based on outdated information and pre-existing bias. Good job. :laugh:
 
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None of that even has anything to do with Linux itself though which shows how ill-informed you are.
You lost me already. If you didn't read my input on this thread, I've been using Linux off and on within a couple of years since the first kernel.

Like I said, I'm like Danny Glover. Too old for this. Especially this.
 

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You lost me already. If you didn't read my input on this thread, I've been using Linux off and on within a couple of years since the first kernel.

Like I said, I'm like Danny Glover. Too old for this. Especially this.
Yet the complaint you brought up is about wifi drivers when the thread is to talk about game support and Proton. :laugh:

In case you've forgotten this thread is about:
I am curious to know if anyone considers themselves more than just a light gamer and also a full time linux user. I can't seem to make the full time jump because too many games that I *might* play rely on .NET. I know Steam is pushing their new wrapper but still...
I don't read that as an opportunity to go on some misguided rant about how Linux sucks when you're posting on a thread in the Linux sub-forum.

With that said, I am a full time Ubuntu user, I do light gaming, and I was playing Skyrim last night which required .NET. It works pretty good, even at 4k with my 390. Supreme Commander 2 also requires .NET, that works great as well.

Edit: As a side note, an OS will always be better when you control the hardware that it runs on. That's part of the reason why OS X and iOS are so hands off.
 
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For clarity, lets get this out of the way: Linux is the kernel, not the entire experience.
You see. This is exactly what's wrong with Linux community. You're instantly getting into this patronizing tone that Linux is the kernel and so on. :-D

Simple fact is: a typical user doesn't give a rat's ass. He downloads e.g. Ubuntu. It's and OS. It's a Linux.
He doesn't know what kernel is. He shouldn't know. He shouldn't have any contact this the basic layer.
For him, Linux is the GUI. Just like he sees Windows as a GUI.
And the GUI is bad. And the apps that install by default are bad (and inconsistent - even graphically). And the Office alternatives are bad. And mainstream games are difficult to use and the native ones are awful.
There's hardly any support as well (although with Ubuntu you can pay for it).
The simple fact is that if you install Ubuntu and have a nVidia card, you don't even need to touch a terminal to get going. If you have an AMD card, you need it just to install the drivers (if you want something other than the Radeon or plain AMDGPU driver for newer GCN card,) and even that can be made to run automatically.
That's a best case scenario, which rarely happens.
Sooner or later you'll have some sort of issue, that will send you into a havoc of jumping between a terminal, config files and community forums.
I'm pretty sure I had problems with at least half of Linux software installed on my PC. And I try to buy mainstream, well supported hardware.
It's much better on VM, but there are still problems.

And it gets worse. Software developers are lazy with Linux versions. The same software made for Windows and Linux has drastically different setup processes. On Windows it's made as easy as possible (automated or done by clicking options during setup), with no need to have any coding experience or knowledge about how this software and the OS work.
To install the same software under Linux you often have to go through countless config files, role creation, setting permissions and solving issues that appear during the process.

I will admit that wifi support needs to be better but, who's fault is it that the driver is crap? The kernel team, the distro, or the device manufacturer? If AMD or nVidia makes a bad driver, who do you blame?
Linux, obviously. It's fragmentation. It's lack of commercial support. Linux is just an OS (or as you like: kernel).
Windows is an ecosystem.

Microsoft, Google and Apple support hardware and software makers. That's why stuff works.
You can literally call any of these companies and say that "Hey, I'm John. I work for company X. We're making a new products and we want it to be compatible with your OS."
And they help you directly, or arrange a meeting with a partner, because they care about the "OS something compatible" sticker on the box. It's not always free and large companies have a priority, obviously.

There's no such thing with Linux (especially for consumers, e.g. gamers). Manufacturers have to sort everything out themselves or hire 3rd party consultants.
Of course it's easier with enterprise stuff. If, for example, you're making something for servers or networks, you might have luck contacting e.g. Red Hat or Oracle. But consumer stuff is left alone.
 
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lmao.. so I have to connect to the net and Github, in order to install a driver to connect to the net? :shadedshu:
You can thank hardware/chipset manufacturers, who's directly responsible for driver development. If you want to direct your frustration in the right direction, you can mail a dildo to Netgear, or send a big "Fuck you" postcard to Realtek. None of these complications are related to Linux in general, or any particular distro.
And that's the reason why I'm avoiding anything based on Realtek wireless chipsets.
 
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You see. This is exactly what's wrong with Linux community. You're instantly getting into this patronizing tone that Linux is the kernel and so on. :-D
But I mean, it is. It really isn't up for debate. Being user friendly about that reality can fall to the distro.
 
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None of that even has anything to do with Linux itself though which shows how ill-informed you are. What you're describing is how the window managers should work which is something different than the kernel itself. That's a complaint with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, Unity, i3, etc and not with Linux. The problem is that people don't even know what to actually complain about. Kernel development has absolutely nothing to do with what you described. It's not like when Windows 8 came out that people said, "This UI sucks, blame the NT kernel!" So why in the world would you blame Linux itself for a problem like this?

For clarity, lets get this out of the way: Linux is the kernel, not the entire experience.

The simple fact is that if you install Ubuntu and have a nVidia card, you don't even need to touch a terminal to get going. If you have an AMD card, you need it just to install the drivers (if you want something other than the Radeon or plain AMDGPU driver for newer GCN card,) and even that can be made to run automatically.


That's not any different than needing a wifi driver in Windows but, needing to connect to the internet to get it. Windows doesn't solve that problem. :slap:

I will admit that wifi support needs to be better but, who's fault is it that the driver is crap? The kernel team, the distro, or the device manufacturer? If AMD or nVidia makes a bad driver, who do you blame?

Based on outdated information and pre-existing bias. Good job. :laugh:
Bottom line is, I don't frigging care whose fault it is for garbage user experience. The fact is, no matter which distro you're using with what shell slammed on top, they all behave like shit. If I want to update a driver, I should be able to go to Settings, Devices and manage things there using MENUS. It's a normal thing to search for a function under naturally assumed name in the menus. It literally works this way for all devices in existence, be it a mobile phone, TV, car settings etc. I shouldn't be required to go on 15 forums to figure out 500 characters long noodles that you need to input into a Terminal. And for driver packages, it happened so many times I downloaded a "driver" for Linux, double clicked it and I was asked what program to use to run it. Dude, I don't freaking know, I just need the driver. You'll never see anything like that on Windows. On Windows, it's either EXE where you're basically guaranteed it'll install itself or it's some sort of standard archive like ZIP or 7z and you know you need to manually install it from there on using before mentioned Device Manager of some sort by pointing it tot he driver location and it should do the rest by itself. If that cannot be achieved, the developers of OS have failed.

I'm not one of those people who want Linux to fail, I genuinely want it to succeed, because that would mean a huge competition to Microsoft and it would create this natural state of forced improvement where companies would WANT to make experience better and easier with better driver support for Linux and Linux devs in general would also be forced to move boundaries further. But if you don't gain general public attention, no one will give a crap about those 5 screaming nerds.

I also used CMD and now PowerShell in Windows, but only for things when I'm digging through deep sections of Windows, fiddling with undocumented settings and features, fixing something user isn't suppose to touch. Installing a simple driver for graphic card isn't that kind of scenario. And that's the kind of disconnect people behind Linux distros have in general. They live in their tiny little box not really thinking what's wrong with the OS that it hasn't gained any kind of serious traction in last 15 years. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury, they need to make a product people can use because their profit depends on it. Linux doesn't. It's just the same ever since I can remember it. Windows for example has gone from mediocre (Win9x) to damn good (Win2000/XP) to bad (Vista) back to mediocre (Win8.x) back to damn good with exceptions with Win10. We can bitch and complain over Windows 10, but as a professional, I absolutely understand what they are trying to achieve.

Unification of Windows will provide easier management long term because they'll get rid of massive fragmentation and forced updating ensures people don't run outdated and unpatched systems, creating armadas of zombie systems open to abuse. Byproduct of this is certain level of inconvenience to users when something doesn't work on some systems. But when you round it up, it's massively beneficial to them and to consumers. And Windows 10 is a good experience in general. They are still in phase of moving old things to new menus, but I must say they are doing a good job. Win8 Start menu was a mess and even I used the "old style" Start menu tools to replace it. Then Win8.1 came and that changed a lot. With Win10 it never even crossed my mind to crave for "old ways". I actually prefer the larger Start menu now. I just pin most used apps in it, few folder locations I use the most and it's great. And that's the kind of evolving people expect from Linux. To actually move anywhere. And they'll never achieve it with absolutely retarded fragmentation they have. Whose fault really is, it's up to them to figure it out, not on user shoulders.
 
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Linux, obviously. It's fragmentation. It's lack of commercial support. Linux is just an OS (or as you like: kernel).
Try realtek for not providing and maintaining an actual kernel module that can be installed. nVidia does it, why can't they? If they can maintain a github repo, they should be able to get this into the kernel. The reality is that the manufacturer has to care for it to get into any OS.
Wall of text
The bottom line is that this thread probably isn't the place to be having this misguided discussion.
 
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