Future-proofing my OLED

[Sydneyblue]

Here are my thoughts btw congrats xD
Future proof is a myth
I have a LG 45 OLed and what i do is turn icons off also i get about 10 or 15 wallpapaers and put in a folder title wallpapaers and have them shuffle ever min. also if i am not using the PC i turn monitor off. Brightness in my opinion should be at 100 to get the most out of what you paid for

 

[LabRat 891]

Yea, a lot of people ask me why am I going through the trouble of getting a 5090... think an exceptionally beautiful 55 inch 4K OLED... match made in heaven

I was *seriously* wanting a launch-FE 5090; explicitly to get something capable of driving my 4K OLED w/o FSR/DLSS for most of what I'd be playing.

To me, at what had been released to public prior to launch,
~$2000 for roughly double my ~$1000 XTX's performance, seemed 'a great value'.

My tune changed as soon as endusers and professionals started getting their hands on them, and discovered inexcusable design-level problems and QC issues. NtM, the price...
Regardless of 'technical problems', I just cannot justify (non-jalopy) Used Car Pricing, for a video card (unless, that card is actively helping me make money).

Future proof is a myth

Correct. Been there done that more times than I can count.
In this case however, I think OP was more speaking towards 'proofing' their display against exceptional wear/tear, into the future.

I have a LG 45 OLed and what i do is turn icons off also i get about 10 or 15 wallpapaers and put in a folder title wallpapaers and have them shuffle ever min. also if i am not using the PC i turn monitor off.

I went w/ solid black background*, hidden icons, autohide taskbar. Would the exercise provided by a slideshow desktop, be better than 'pure black'?
[*I kinda enjoy Utilitarian- and Industrial- Minimalism, in moderation]

Brightness in my opinion should be at 100 to get the most out of what you paid for

My (bare) Mk1 Eyeballs cannot endure my 32" OLED @ max brightness.

Unless I'm gaming and need the extra brightness and contrast clarity, I keep mine at 50% brightness. -Sometimes, 75% when I have full sunlight coming thru the windows.

The 80% Brightness of the "FPS mode" in my LG OLED, is about as bright as I can stand; even, in an illuminated room.
If I'm gaming on it @ >75% brightness (esp. at night), I have to wear lightly-tinted glasses to not suffer immediate eyestrain.
-Which is funny since, OLEDs seem to be naturally less-straining, when operated at a moderate brightness.

IMHO, no need for the extra Power, Heat, and Wear of max brightness (unless, you need it, ofc)

 

[Thimblewad]

well from your pic you need more kids then it will be the last oled you get for 20 ish years
(cause either 1. you won't have money for another or 2. no time to use it or both)

I don't have an oled - but set my screen to 120 lumens/nits whatever and have the monitor set to sleep/turn off after 10 minutes of inactivity.
and for the 120 lumens - https://tftcentral.co.uk/category/reviews
cause it's basically an accepted office brightness or something

I hope not... I hope I spawn a gamer like myself. That means we'll both have time to play games and when I'll need an upgrade, well, he'll get my old stuff and I get to buy some new goodies.
The wife is already nagging about it... I'm not even 30 yet

Correct. Been there done that more times than I can count.
In this case however, I think OP was more speaking towards 'proofing' their display against exceptional wear/tear, into the future.

That is exactly what I meant. I know the thing won't last forever and will burn-in eventually, but I'd like it to last as long as possible without issues

My (bare) Mk1 Eyeballs cannot endure my 32" OLED @ max brightness.

Unless I'm gaming and need the extra brightness and contrast clarity, I keep mine at 50% brightness. -Sometimes, 75% when I have full sunlight coming thru the windows.

The 80% Brightness of the "FPS mode" in my LG OLED, is about as bright as I can stand; even, in an illuminated room.
If I'm gaming on it @ >75% brightness (esp. at night), I have to wear lightly-tinted glasses to not suffer immediate eyestrain.
-Which is funny since, OLEDs seem to be naturally less-straining, when operated at a moderate brightness.

IMHO, no need for the extra Power, Heat, and Wear of max brightness (unless, you need it, ofc)

Can confirm my LG is unbearably bright at 100%. 80 is the sweet spot for me, where I don't have to change it no matter what content is displayed. Well, TPU burns my eyes the most, I can keep it around 70%

 

[mechtech]

I hope not... I hope I spawn a gamer like myself. That means we'll both have time to play games and when I'll need an upgrade, well, he'll get my old stuff and I get to buy some new goodies.
The wife is already nagging about it... I'm not even 30 yet

lol yep it doesn't end.............

 

[onemanhitsquad]

3 Oleds in the house ...not concerned about burn in....but I get why someone might be.

 

[JustBenching]

Let me start by saying that burn in (or burn out I guess is the better word) cannot be avoided. The subpixels get worn by usage. The more you use them, the less bright they become. What algorithms do is they detect what subpixels are worn more and increase the voltage going to that subpixel bringing it back to equal brightness with everything else.

The goal is to have as much even burn in as possible. Having a fully red image running for 300 hours will not cause any "burn in" that you can notice because the whole panel has burned in the red subpixel an equal amount.

In order to prevent it as much as possible, hide the Taskbar and use a completely black background.

Burn in isn't really that big of an issue, it will go unnoticeable in normal use case. You have to run a specific test (green red gray etc.) to notice it, in which case does it really matter? If the whole screen not being the exact same color is a problem then non oled monitors come preburned in from the factory.

 

[GerKNG]

my 3rd gen QD OLED had burn in after 1200 Hours.
my current LG OLED has a black wallpaper (just every pixel off), hidden taskbar and icons on the second monitor.
additionally i turn the screenshift to mode 2 which is the most aggressive one out of the 4.

 

[TSiAhmat]

It's not like LCDs don't have reliability issues, like backlighting that goes bad or stuck pixels in the very long run

Is this some sort of jab against me? xd

Spoiler

 

[Jtuck9]

Win + Alt + B

Hopefully something like auto content switching will be implemented in the future

Here's Why You Should Only Enable HDR Mode on Your PC When You Are Viewing HDR Content - TFTCentral

Looking at a common area of confusion and the problems with SDR, desktop and normal content when running in HDR mode all the time

tftcentral.co.uk

I also saw someone recommend "Whoosh! 2.0" to clean the screen

My main concern is what to do with a monitor once it suffers from substantial burn-in. Some sort of decent trade-in program would be welcome with the manufacturers.

 

[Bill_Bright]

What have you guys been doing to prevent burn-in?

Nothing. I let the default settings do their thing.

My LG 55" OLED TV is on a minimum of 6 hours per day, 365 days per year. 8+ hours is more typical. There is no evidence of burn-ins, image retention, degradation of display of the color blue, brightness dimming, or any other image quality concerns.

HOWEVER, I only purchased it May 23, 2017 so it is not even 8 years old. I'll let you know if things change.

BTW, OLED manufacturers have implemented even better mitigation features since I bought mine.

...burn in...cannot be avoided.

That is FUD. I am glad you contradicted yourself, and that blanket statement, by adding,

Burn in isn't really that big of an issue, it will go unnoticeable in normal use case.

No normal person is ever going to display a solid color 100s of hours on end. So to suggest burn in cannot be avoided is nonsense.

The goal is to have as much even burn in as possible.

Ummm, not even. I am afraid you don't understand what burn-in is. The goal is to have no burn in. And with modern OLED technologies, along with normal viewing habits, that is not hard to achieve.

Airport flight schedule or ATM monitors would be a poor choices for OLEDs, as examples, because grid patterns and the exact same text might be displayed in the exact same locations and patterns 24/7/365. But home-use TVs and computer monitors are not used that way.

Pixel shift is very effective at mitigating image retention problems, even with things like the Windows taskbar. But to that, if one ALWAYS displays the taskbar, would it matter if the image is retained? When would you notice it if you always display the taskbar? ???

Yes of course, if you ABUSE your OLED TV or monitor by displaying an image no normal user (and that is 99% of us) would ever subject their OLED to, you might see some image retention issues. So if you are going to abuse your OLED by using it in some manner the manufacturer NEVER intended it to be used, don't buy one.

But if you are going to use your OLED to watch TV or do computer tasks or play computer games, get one and totally enjoy the vastly superior image. And don't let the FUD comments worry you.

 

[JustBenching]

Nothing. I let the default settings do their thing.

My LG 55" OLED TV is on a minimum of 6 hours per day, 365 days per year. 8+ hours is more typical. There is no evidence of burn-ins, image retention, degradation of display of the color blue, brightness dimming, or any other image quality concerns.

HOWEVER, I only purchased it May 23, 2017 so it is not even 8 years old. I'll let you know if things change.

BTW, OLED manufacturers have implemented even better mitigation features since I bought mine.


That is FUD. I am glad you contradicted yourself, and that blanket statement, by adding,

No normal person is ever going to display a solid color 100s of hours on end. So to suggest burn in cannot be avoided is nonsense.


Ummm, not even. I am afraid you don't understand what burn-in is. The goal is to have no burn in. And with modern OLED technologies, along with normal viewing habits, that is not hard to achieve.

Airport flight schedule or ATM monitors would be a poor choices for OLEDs, as examples, because grid patterns and the exact same text might be displayed in the exact same locations and patterns 24/7/365. But home-use TVs and computer monitors are not used that way.

Pixel shift is very effective at mitigating image retention problems, even with things like the Windows taskbar. But to that, if one ALWAYS displays the taskbar, would it matter if the image is retained? When would you notice it if you always display the taskbar? ???

Yes of course, if you ABUSE your OLED TV or monitor by displaying an image no normal user (and that is 99% of us) would ever subject their OLED to, you might see some image retention issues. So if you are going to abuse your OLED by using it in some manner the manufacturer NEVER intended it to be used, don't buy one.

But if you are going to use your OLED to watch TV or do computer tasks or play computer games, get one and totally enjoy the vastly superior image. And don't let the FUD comments worry you.

Organic emmitters (which is the O part of an oled) burn in - degrade or whatever word you want to use - just by using them. Period. There is no avoiding that part. The more hours you use your OLED, the more it wears out. Software mitigators do not stop the monitor from degrading, what they do is they even out so your whole monitor is evenly "burned in", resulting in you not noticing any issues.

A 4k oled monitor has 8m pixels. If you take pixel 1 and display color blue for 10 hours and take pixel 2 and display color red for 10 hours now pixel 1 has a more bright red and pixel 2 has a more bright blue cause those subpixels worn out. Obviously it doesn't happen in a span of 10 hours, it was just an example. That's burn in, and is unpreventable.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Is this some sort of jab against me? xd

Spoiler

View attachment 392055

Dang! That looks bad This is more of what I had in mind, though

Thin LCD TVs Break Faster Under Prolonged Use: Key Findings From Running 100 TVs for Over 10,000 Hours

By dismantling and investigating our edge-lit TVs with issues, we've seen firsthand that it all boils down to heat and thermal management.

www.rtings.com

 

[Bill_Bright]

Organic emmitters (which is the O part of an oled) burn in - degrade or whatever word you want to use - just by using them. Period.

Come on! This is a technical discussion. You cannot just pick "whatever word you want to use" then decide your word makes your argument correct. That is total nonsense! Period.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Take a couple electronics courses, get educated, then come back.

The output of an emitter and burn in are two entirely different, and actually, unrelate things. Both are subject to degradation, yes. But it would be like saying piston wear causes tire wear, or are the same thing.

If you take pixel 1 and display color blue for 10 hours and take pixel 2 and display color red for 10 hours now pixel 1

More total nonsense. "IF" I take a 10 ounce hammer and tap a tenpenny nail for 10 hours, odds are I will hammer that nail in by the end of the day. But is that "normal" usage? Of course not.

NO NORMAL TV OR MONITOR USER IS GOING TO LIGHT UP THE SAME SINGLE PIXEL WITH THE SAME COLOR BLUE OR RED FOR 10 HOURS.

Not to mention, despite your obsessive desire to do so, you cannot ignore the retention mitigation techniques the manufacturers have implemented.

So STOP with your FUD!!!

Do some homework. Use your friend Bing DDG Google and get current! Today's OLED displays are not the same as first generation OLED displays, or even those from 3 - 5 years ago.

OLED TV burn-in: Why you no longer need to worry - Reviewed
After years of owning OLED TVs, I've finally stopped worrying about burn-in | TechRadar
OLED Burn-In: Is it Still a Problem for Laptops? - Easy Tech Solver
Why OLED monitor burn-in isn’t a huge problem anymore - Ars Technica
It's time to stop worrying about OLED monitor burn-in | Digital Trends

Hmmm, I suspect you are one to claim today's SSDs write limitations are a big factor today too. If you disagree, ask yourself why it is not.

 

[JustBenching]

More total nonsense. "IF" I take a 10 ounce hammer and tap a tenpenny nail for 10 hours, odds are I will hammer that nail in by the end of the day. But is that "normal" usage? Of course not.

You don't have to run them for 10 hours. Even if you run it for 5 minutes it will be worn out 5 minutes more than the pixel next to it. How the heck do you think burn in occurs? Your own link says it, check the ars technica link

Burn-in happens when subpixels aren't burning as brightly as before. This causes a shift in color among the pixels or, if they were all affected equally, dimming. Monitor firmware techniques can help mitigate or hide damage, Wooster explained:

By counting the time each subpixel is displayed and at what brightness, a "wear level" can be determined for each pixel, using an algorithm to estimate the luminance degradation this can be compensated for. However, to do this, you must have some spare luminance headroom that gets utilized as the display gets older. Or alternatively, if the display unlocks full maximum luminance when new without saving any headroom, the algorithm would dim the other pixels over time to bring them down to the level of the burned-in pixels, so the peak luminance of the display would diminish over time as the burn-in occurs

Everything in your link is exactly what I said. That the goal is an even burn in, and that the monitor pushes voltages higher to affected subpixels to bring them up in brightness.

 

[R-T-B]

You guys are arguing whether "burn-in" is a technical condition even if it is not visible yet.

I guess all I can ask here is: is this really a worthwhile argument to have? The bottom line, which you both seemingly agree with, is its not a huge deal.

 

[blinnbanir]

Windows 11 latest build changes the background pic every 4 to 6 hours. I feel that is for OLED. Means if you are on Windows 11 24H2 burn in is a thing of the past.

 

[JustBenching]

Windows 11 latest build changes the background pic every 4 to 6 hours. I feel that is for OLED. Means if you are on Windows 11 24H2 burn in is a thing of the past.

Changing background helps with having an even burn in, but black background is optimal simply because a turned off pixel doesn't wear out at all. You are making your oled dimmer by having a background on all the time even if it's rotating every 5 minutes.

 

[blinnbanir]

Changing background helps with having an even burn in, but black background is optimal simply because a turned off pixel doesn't wear out at all. You are making your oled dimmer by having a background on all the time even if it's rotating every 5 minutes.

That is true for any monitor. If you want OLED get it and enjoy it. The technology is not nascent.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I guess all I can ask here is: is this really a worthwhile argument to have?

It is when the ill-informed and fear mongers continue to spread such FUD, false, and greatly exaggerated claims like "burn in...cannot be avoided". That is just wrong.

Misrepresenting the facts with unrealistic what "IF" exceptions to the norm does not help to inform readers of the reality, or help them make informed decisions based on the facts from real-world scenarios.

You guys are arguing whether "burn-in" is a technical condition even if it is not visible yet.

Ummm, no. I have never denied burn-in or suggested it is not a possibility. My point is, contrary to the claim, it can be avoided. And this is especially true with the latest generation of OLED displays.

 

[Dr. Dro]

That is true for any monitor. If you want OLED get it and enjoy it. The technology is not nascent.

We've certainly come a long way since the XEL-1

Changing background helps with having an even burn in, but black background is optimal simply because a turned off pixel doesn't wear out at all. You are making your oled dimmer by having a background on all the time even if it's rotating every 5 minutes.

It's honestly no longer necessary. Modern displays have a very smart wear leveling algorithm, and mitigations are highly effective, and if you keep brightness low you're also applying the "the candle that burns twice as bright burns out twice as fast" axiom in reverse. My G3 will cross the 5000 hour threshold tomorrow, and I've checked a pure white image: zero retention, and no uniformity issues.

 

[JustBenching]

It's honestly no longer necessary. Modern displays have a very smart wear leveling algorithm, and mitigations are highly effective, and if you keep brightness low you're also applying the "the candle that burns twice as bright burns out twice as fast" axiom in reverse. My G3 will cross the 5000 hour threshold tomorrow, and I've checked a pure white image: zero retention, and no uniformity issues.

Mine is at 70% brightness but I'd still prefer a black background for peace of mind.

 

[TSiAhmat]

Dang! That looks bad This is more of what I had in mind, though

Thin LCD TVs Break Faster Under Prolonged Use: Key Findings From Running 100 TVs for Over 10,000 Hours

By dismantling and investigating our edge-lit TVs with issues, we've seen firsthand that it all boils down to heat and thermal management.

www.rtings.com

yeah, BUT I still have warranty on this one. Hopefully MSI can fix it, already send it in for repair.

 

[R-T-B]

Ummm, no. I have never denied burn-in or suggested it is not a possibility. My point is, contrary to the claim, it can be avoided.

It can't be if you accept nonvisible burn in as applicable to the term, because technically he is right, burn in is always happening. Its just usually so minor and managed so well that no one notices or cares.

My point is basically this whole discussion is a silly one, the bottom line (and there'd no FUD as you both have said this at some point) is that burn in in most all common use cases is not noticable enough to be an issue, if even persceptible.

 

[Bill_Bright]

My point is basically this whole discussion is a silly one

And yet you add yet another post perpetuating it! But worse yet, you do so by adding even more misinformation and yes, FUD.

While image retention and burn-in are very similar, and frequent, and long duration image retention events with the exact same display elements in the exact same screen locations can (that's "can", not "will") lead to burn-in, image retention and burn-in are NOT the same thing. Burn-in is permanent (or may take several weeks or even months to go away). Image retention is temporary.

burn in is always happening.

Bullfeathers! Or as another wise person says, "moose muffins!" Your comment is just another example of a blanket statement that is pure FUD!

Burn-in ONLY happens with a fixed image that doesn't move. Essentially every OLED TV and monitor uses pixel shifting. Therefore, it can not "always" happen as your FUD comment claims.

This article is correct when it says,

Much of the screen burn-in rhetoric comes from the LCD camp. They are looking for reasons for you to buy an LCD when OLEDs look better and are becoming more and more competitive in prices.

And do note it does say too (my bold underline added),

it is true that OLEDs can burn-in. If you abuse your OLED, you can experience screen burn-in and longer-term image retention.

So you can continue to perpetuate what you claim to be a silly discussion. But note if you do, then you are just as, if not more silly for continuing it.

The real bottom line is this; if users are looking for a new monitor, they should consider OLED too - unless they plan on displaying a static display (like a company logo) in the exact same place for hours and hours and hours on end - and if they intend to disable the maker's pixel shift and other burn-in mitigation features.

Moving on.

 

[Maxiaid]

Holy shit, it feels weird to use the computer without the taskbar visible at all times... Certainly need to get used to this.
I presume then, using the "full screen" mode while browsing the web is also a good idea? It looks even weirder, feels like I'm watching a youtube video of myself typing this

I can't be bothered. Both my laptop and desktop displays are OLED and I've tried, but no way I'm using my computer like that. I'd rather have it burnt in like a livestock brand than having to place my mouse at the bottom of the screen for the taskbar to show.