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General Cryptocoin Discussion

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This discussion belong here...
If you use MasterCard or Visa card, you pay a fee, it's just already included in product price. And it's not negotiable, you always pay. That's how those companies make money. It's little known fact, but fact nonetheless. Not to mention that banks themselves have various small fees everywhere and for almost anything, but that's besides the point I was trying to make.
I AM a retailer and no, those fees are NOT worked into the price. Stores pay that fee. Granted not all all. Some places charge a different price for cash vs card. Either way, the fees are small compared to crypto fees.
 
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This discussion belong here...

I AM a retailer and no, those fees are NOT worked into the price. Stores pay that fee. Granted not all all. Some places charge a different price for cash vs card. Either way, the fees are small compared to crypto fees.
Who cares if they are small, my argument was that they exist and you said no fees.
 
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My main issue with mastercard and VISA is when their policies effectively become extralegal law because well, you need to accept them or bust as a big business.

And yes, there are cases where the law and the payout policy in a locale differs. Mostly relating to drug and various pornography laws (with the card policies being the stricter of the two usually) but the point stands.
 
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Matt Levine has a great post describing the FTT / FTX Token situation. Its a very long post, so I'll cut some stuff out.

Now let’s add one more crypto element. If you are a crypto exchange, you might issue your own crypto token. FTX issues a token called FTT. The attributes of this token are, like, it entitles you to some discounts and stuff, but the main attribute is that FTX periodically uses a portion of its profits to buy back FTT tokens. This makes FTT kind of like stock in FTX: The higher FTX’s profits are, the higher the price of FTT will be.

[snip]

If you think of the token as “more or less stock,” and you think of a crypto exchange as a securities broker-dealer, this is completely insane. If you go to an investment bank and say “lend me $1 billion, and I will post $2 billion of your stock as collateral,” you are messing with very dark magic and they will say no.[9] The problem with this is that it is wrong-way risk. (It is also, at least sometimes, illegal.) If people start to worry about the investment bank’s financial health, its stock will go down, which means that its collateral will be less valuable, which means that its financial health will get worse, which means that its stock will go down, etc. It is a death spiral.

[snip]

The worst case is something like:

  1. You have 100 Customer As who are long Bitcoin on margin: They each have 1 Bitcoin in their accounts and owe you $10,000.
  2. You have 100 Customer Bs who are short Bitcoin on margin: They each have $20,000 in their account and owe you 0.5 Bitcoin.
  3. You have loaned 50 of the Customer As’ Bitcoins to the Customer Bs, and $1 million of the Customer Bs’ dollars to the Customer As. You keep the other 50 Bitcoins and $1 million as collateral.
  4. Your accounts show that you owe clients 100 Bitcoins and $2 million, and that they owe you back 50 Bitcoins and $1 million, and you have 50 Bitcoins and $1 million on hand, so everything balances.
  5. You have one Customer C who says “hi I would like to borrow 50 Bitcoins and $1 million, I will secure that loan with 150,000 FTT, each of which is worth $20.”
  6. You say “sure, sounds good,” and hand over all your collateral.
  7. Now you have 150,000 of FTT, worth $3 million, as collateral (and no Bitcoins or dollars).
  8. Your accounts show that you owe clients 100 Bitcoins and $2 million and 150,000 FTT, and they owe you back 100 Bitcoins and $2 million, and you have 150,000 FTT of collateral, so everything balances.
But then if the value of FTT drops to zero, you have nothing. You have no Bitcoins to give to the customers to whom you owe Bitcoins, no dollars to give to the customers to whom you owe dollars. You just have to call up Customer C and say “hey we need all those dollars and Bitcoins back.” But Customer C will not want to give you back all those valuable dollars and Bitcoins in exchange for now-worthless FTT. Also the fact that Customer C had all that FTT in the first place is not a great sign. It is an FTT whale, and FTT is now worthless. Has it been borrowing elsewhere against FTT? Are all those debts coming due?

[snip]

The reason for a run on FTX is that you think that Alameda is, in my terminology, Customer C. The reason for a run on FTX is if you think that FTX loaned Alameda a bunch of customer assets and got back FTT in exchange. If that’s the case, then a crash in the price of FTT will destabilize FTX.

I should note that everything until step #4 is kosher and fine-ish. Banks have margin calls to keep the situation in step#4 stable. There's risk if BTC/whatever moves too quickly before you can margin call people, but as long as the banks have sufficient margin they should be able to call in the debt from other customers at the right points and keep the books balanced.

Its step#5, where FTT comes in, that made everything unstable. The long-story short seems to be: FTX no longer has dollars or BTC. It lent them all out for FTT (tokens in itself) (see step#8). By the time we get to the last paragraph, where we learn that Alameda Research is Customer C (and Alameda Research is basically FTX, or at least both are owned by Sam Bankman-Fried). And now we basically have a human-centipede structure where the shit of FTX is being eaten by Alameda Research, and that crap is being eaten by FTX.

TLDR: Maybe Sam Bankman-Fried wasn't a 30-year-old financial genius worth $15 Billion, but instead just a dude who made a complex financial mistake and double-downed on it for the past year. Alas, its time to pay the piper and FTX does not have the finances it needs to continue. Whats going on right now is seemingly the unwinding of all of this "Flywheel" as FTT goes to zero. Its looking like the #3 BTC exchange is going the way of Mt. Gox, everything is seemingly gone.
 
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Unless you're reclaiming what was stolen from you in the first place.
Well yeah, there is that caveat of course. Though I never recomend using "find my iphone" to confront a thief... not least of all because of what the typical apple user looks like (zing!)
 
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For fucks sake, someone needs to tell SBF he needs to shut up.

That being said, who likes tasty gossip? Cause I got some gossip for ya. Him coming out and basically saying a lot of his personality from a few months ago was a sham / front that he put in front of the media is... a really bad look.

EDIT: I should note that SBF is supposed to be in the Bahamas, but his airplane last landed in Argentina IIRC. This is the time for him to lay low and try to get heat off of himself. Not the time to be conducting hour+ long interviews with journalists. But what do I know? Actually, you know what? Maybe this is for the best. If this dumbass gets himself caught by Interpol or whatever, this is seriously on himself at this point. He's completely delusional and apparently is dumb as a doornail. I don't know the full extent of what he has done (or if it constitutes a crime), but there's well over a million individuals, some of whom are very rich and well connected, that he just pissed off. I don't even know what country he's supposed to run away to, FTX was an international exchange. He probably has enemies lurking behind every corner.
 
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trickson

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For fucks sake, someone needs to tell SBF he needs to shut up.

That being said, who likes tasty gossip? Cause I got some gossip for ya. Him coming out and basically saying a lot of his personality from a few months ago was a sham / front that he put in front of the media is... a really bad look.

EDIT: I should note that SBF is supposed to be in the Bahamas, but his airplane last landed in Argentina IIRC. This is the time for him to lay low and try to get heat off of himself. Not the time to be conducting hour+ long interviews with journalists. But what do I know? Actually, you know what? Maybe this is for the best. If this dumbass gets himself caught by Interpol or whatever, this is seriously on himself at this point. He's completely delusional and apparently is dumb as a doornail. I don't know the full extent of what he has done (or if it constitutes a crime), but there's well over a million individuals, some of whom are very rich and well connected, that he just pissed off. I don't even know what country he's supposed to run away to, FTX was an international exchange. He probably has enemies lurking behind every corner.
LOL how many got scammed by this scum bag?
I knew this stuff was fake from the gate years ago.
Now you got played! YES!!! Maybe now we can get our video cards at a low price?

Crypto is a Ponzi scheme!
 
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LOL how many got scammed by this scum bag?

Lots.

I knew this stuff was fake from the gate years ago.

Like, what even IS real, man?

Now you got played! YES!!! Maybe now we can get our video cards at a low price?

Nope.


To me, this particular collapse (FTX) more closely resembles a pyramid scheme, but the two are so similar that the specific nomenclature probably isn't important.
 
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For fucks sake, someone needs to tell SBF he needs to shut up.

That being said, who likes tasty gossip? Cause I got some gossip for ya. Him coming out and basically saying a lot of his personality from a few months ago was a sham / front that he put in front of the media is... a really bad look.

EDIT: I should note that SBF is supposed to be in the Bahamas, but his airplane last landed in Argentina IIRC. This is the time for him to lay low and try to get heat off of himself. Not the time to be conducting hour+ long interviews with journalists. But what do I know? Actually, you know what? Maybe this is for the best. If this dumbass gets himself caught by Interpol or whatever, this is seriously on himself at this point. He's completely delusional and apparently is dumb as a doornail. I don't know the full extent of what he has done (or if it constitutes a crime), but there's well over a million individuals, some of whom are very rich and well connected, that he just pissed off. I don't even know what country he's supposed to run away to, FTX was an international exchange. He probably has enemies lurking behind every corner.
While the saying, 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence' is popular, I think in this particular instance, we can ascribe equal parts both.

His company appears to have had little to no financial controls nor any professional accounting personnel to implement and properly categorize transactions, and similarly he does not appear to have any legal counsel because a proper defense lawyer would have kept him out of making these kind of foolish statements to the press. By all accounts, he was a truly incompetent CEO.

However, we can also ascribe malice, because he doesn't seem to care that he damaged so many.
 
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While the saying, 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence' is popular, I think in this particular instance, we can ascribe equal parts both.

His company appears to have had little to no financial controls nor any professional accounting personnel to implement and properly categorize transactions, and similarly he does not appear to have any legal counsel because a proper defense lawyer would have kept him out of making these kind of foolish statements to the press. By all accounts, he was a truly incompetent CEO.

However, we can also ascribe malice, because he doesn't seem to care that he damaged so many.

Just last night I was conversing about this with a friend, and opined that maybe Bankman-Fried didn't start out intending to swindle anybody, but things got too big too fast, and/or he got subsumed and blinded by his own success as so many do. And maybe those things are true. But my "good faith" take looks less and less likely with every statement.
 

trickson

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I tell you what things are getting worse and worse for this Morally empty maggot!
 
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While the saying, 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence' is popular, I think in this particular instance, we can ascribe equal parts both.

His company appears to have had little to no financial controls nor any professional accounting personnel to implement and properly categorize transactions, and similarly he does not appear to have any legal counsel because a proper defense lawyer would have kept him out of making these kind of foolish statements to the press. By all accounts, he was a truly incompetent CEO.

However, we can also ascribe malice, because he doesn't seem to care that he damaged so many.

It's not that he doesn't care in and of itself, it's that he intentionally deceived people into thinking he was something he wasn't at multiple levels.

Markets are always about winners and losers, and varying degrees of both. I don't know why anyone would think any differently.

1668791120580.png
 
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"Mr. Bankman-Fried’s companies had neither accounting nor functioning human-resources departments, according to a filing in federal court by the executive brought in to shepherd FTX through bankruptcy. Corporate money was used to buy real estate, but records weren’t kept. There wasn’t even a roster of employees, to say nothing of the terms of their employment."

 
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Seeing some discussions about how BTC has been "mining at a loss" recently, as well as defaults of mining companies. BTC has come down in price significantly, but difficulty still seems on the up-and-up. https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/charts/difficulty

"Mining for a loss" is possible as long as these guys have spare money. But it seems like a bad idea to me. Eventually, the companies will go defunct and have no choice but to go bankrupt / sell their equipment and fold. It costs real money (or at least, real electricity which costs money) to keep mining BTC after all, even if you have the latest and greatest antminer ASICs.
 
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Not inside the topic, but a lot of chatter that coinbase could be in trouble. That would be another big blow to crypto.

Regarding FTX, the latest from SBF

0thsob4mbm1a1.png
 
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Just last night I was conversing about this with a friend, and opined that maybe Bankman-Fried didn't start out intending to swindle anybody, but things got too big too fast, and/or he got subsumed and blinded by his own success as so many do. And maybe those things are true. But my "good faith" take looks less and less likely with every statement.

We should abandon those 'good faith' takes. If you step into crypto with 'good faith' you're too naive to exist, IMHO. That thought was valid in the earliest years of Bitcoin, with all its promises of a new, utopian decentralized power balance. Some people never left that train... delusional doesn't even cover it proper.

Everyone in this business needs to bleed maximum, no ifs or buts, if they cross the line. SBF might be dumb as a doornail, but the man should not be able to live a good life anymore. And the same applies to everyone who thought to get rich in this shithole. Wherever there are such profits, people should simply know better. Nothing is free and for every winner there is a loser somewhere.

Crypto needs to die period. Luckily that's where its going, a victim of its own, highly questionable, success. It has no purpose apart from trying to get rich with no effort. Ironically, it also just self destructs with no effort; crypto and its friends don't need enemies to make it fail, they can do it pretty well themselves, driven by greed. Note: this is the conclusion banks and other real financial institutions drew many years ago. Just let it happen, problem fixes itself. Its doing so.

Not inside the topic, but a lot of chatter that coinbase could be in trouble. That would be another big blow to crypto.

Regarding FTX, the latest from SBF

View attachment 271397
One by one. Crypto trust issues have reached a new all time high. Not a single exchange is safe. Regulation won't happen, the consumer base won't pay for it and it doesn't fit the culture surrounding crypto either. So what do you have left when the exchange is gone? Lots of coin, and highly impractical ways to use it, making it a worse 'product' in every possible way; as speculative goods, and as transaction vehicle.
 
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