Getting Less MultiCore Ghz on i5 13400F

[AlirezaGhanbari]

here is the information about my CPU if it can help.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

Hi again
according to this video:

Intel i5 13400 Review - Gaming, Thermals, Power Usage, Content Creation

4:23

my i5 13400F should get 4.6Ghz on All the Cores.

but I ran a test and it turns out it's on 4.1Ghz. can someone help me with this in a simple way so I can fix it?

the E cores are running on there maximum Speed but the P cores nah.

 

[Tatty_Two]

No, 4.6Ghz is the max single core frequency ...............

Intel Core i513400F Processor 20M Cache up to 4.60 GHz Product Specifications

You will also see from that spec sheet, that your base frequency power limit is 65w and your max turbo limit is 148w, I think this may be why you have seen a drop in performance after your bios flash. I asked you in my post 13 that you have stated that you have power limits set to default, and I asked what are those default PL1 and PL2 settings because I have the feeling that your Bios flash reduced your PL2 power limit, I may be wrong but were you to change PL1 and PL2 manually to the Intel spec shown in the link above (65w/148w) you may revert to your previous performance, especially as you have also said that your CPU runs a little cooler since the flash.

It is difficult to help however if you don't answer questions and then continue to ask the same questions without providing relevant information.

 

[N/A]

Intel Core i5-13400F Review - Force of Efficiency

The Intel Core i5-13400F is only $200, but comes with six Performance Cores and four E-Cores, bringing the total thread count to 16. Performance is good, as expected, but what's even more impressive is the energy efficiency as confirmed by the detailed testing in our review.

www.techpowerup.com

4.5 GHz up to 8t on the p-core with float - point / SSE load
4.5 GHz up to 6t with AVX load
4.1 GHz up to 12t

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

No, 4.6Ghz is the max single core frequency ...............

Intel Core i513400F Processor 20M Cache up to 4.60 GHz Product Specifications

You will also see from that spec sheet, that your base frequency power limit is 65w and your max turbo limit is 148w, I think this may be why you have seen a drop in performance after your bios flash. I asked you in my post 13 that you have stated that you have power limits set to default, and I asked what are those default PL1 and PL2 settings because I have the feeling that your Bios flash reduced your PL2 power limit, I may be wrong but were you to change PL1 and PL2 manually to the Intel spec shown in the link above (65w/148w) you may revert to your previous performance, especially as you have also said that your CPU runs a little cooler since the flash.

It is difficult to help however if you don't answer questions and then continue to ask the same questions without providing relevant information.

hi, Sorry but i'm a noob in terms of Bios Settings. how can I check this information? i have Prime Z790 D4 WIFI.
after the Bios Update I set reset everything to the default setting.

Intel Core i5-13400F Review - Force of Efficiency

The Intel Core i5-13400F is only $200, but comes with six Performance Cores and four E-Cores, bringing the total thread count to 16. Performance is good, as expected, but what's even more impressive is the energy efficiency as confirmed by the detailed testing in our review.

www.techpowerup.com

4.5 GHz up to 8t on the p-core with float - point / SSE load
4.5 GHz up to 6t with AVX load
4.1 GHz up to 12t

damn this was helpfull.♥

but why does Task manager Say 3.88Ghz? is it because it mixes the P and E cores?

 

[Tatty_Two]

hi, Sorry but i'm a noob in terms of Bios Settings. how can I check this information? i have Prime Z790 D4 WIFI.
after the Bios Update I set reset everything to the default setting.


damn this was helpfull.♥

but why does Task manager Say 3.88Ghz? is it because it mixes the P and E cores?

In your bios you should have an "advanced" or maybe "overclocking" tab, different manufacturers can have different names for them, in there you should find your power limit settings, as you have said, this should read as default but if you click on it you should get the option to manually input PL1 and PL2.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

In your bios you should have an "advanced" or maybe "overclocking" tab, different manufacturers can have different names for them, in there you should find your power limit settings, as you have said, this should read as default but if you click on it you should get the option to manually input PL1 and PL2.

Hi,
thanks and I should put 65 in PL1 and 148 in PL2 as you said.
but one more thing to ask before doing this:

What does it do? In the max Usage in AIDA64 and HWM my CPU only Uses 88W at max, do u think the Default PL2 is set to 90W and that's why I'm not getting the max?
because as https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-13400f/24.html says on 16t, 4.1Ghz it's the max speed of my CPU.

I am only confused about the Task Manager, I know it's not the best app to see your Clock Speed but I want to know if it's showing the Right or if My CPU needs work to be done in the Bios xD. Sorry!

edit: I'm a little scared that pushing my CPU to 148W may cause damage to it. is it not? or my motherboard doesn't have the build quality for it? ( Asus Prime Z790 ). one more thing is that Why is it not set on 148W by default? Do you mean I was not using my CPU full Speed for the past 7 8 months? xD

 

[Tatty_Two]

Yeah, it appears that your CPU has possibly been limited by that Bios flash to around 80 - 90w, I assume you took those readings whilst running something intensive like Cinebench to give it an all core load? Not sure if you read the Intel spec sheet for your CPU that I posted earlier, your spec is PL1 @ 65W and PL2 @ 148W, it won't use that 148W limit all the time, only when it is needed and not necessarily all of it. Think of it another way, before the flash you were getting more boost/speed than you are now, it was operating to spec to give you that boost, it still will be now if you make the tweak which is why you came here for help.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

Yeah, it appears that your CPU has possibly been limited by that Bios flash to around 80 - 90w, I assume you took those readings whilst running something intensive like Cinebench to give it an all core load? Not sure if you read the Intel spec sheet for your CPU that I posted earlier, your spec is PL1 @ 65W and PL2 @ 148W, it won't use that 148W limit all the time, only when it is needed and not necessarily all of it. Think of it another way, before the flash you were getting more boost/speed than you are now, it was operating to spec to give you that boost, it still will be now if you make the tweak which is why you came here for help.

Hi, no before the Bios update i was getting the same 3.88Ghz, but now that I see I think I was power limited from the bios from the beginning of my purchase.

I'm gonna go take a look at the bios and I'll update you ♥

one more thing: what about the Package Power Time Window? Should I change it to something else?

I just got back from my Bios.
why is PL1 and PL2 defaults are 4095Watt !! shouldn't it be 65 and 148? or something around this !
i changed from ASUS to Intel profile and it was the same.

anyway if this is not a problem. should I Put 65 at the top and 148 at the bottom right? but now it's not even limited to anything!

Understanding Intel power limits?

So Intel turbo, to my understanding, works by increasing the clock frequency as long as temps are fine and the processor isn't drawing too much power. But what exactly defines and enforces that control over power draw? My 2600k, a 95w chip, was constantly drawing 110w+ according to coretemp...

www.techpowerup.com

here is one about the 4095Watt


Edit: if I set my Time Window to something like 60, is it better? i have no problem with cooling and to my information that I just learned xD setting Time Window to higher Number will make CPU to Stay at the PL2 more, right? but how does it gonna effect the performance of my Ghz?

after changing my PL and PL2 the same problem that I had earlier came again. as you can see without no issue my CPU drops down to even 3.07Ghz Total.

 

[Tatty_Two]

In that case it may well be your package power time limit, my default was 56 seconds before tweaking so try it on that, it will allow your CPU to maintain boost speeds for longer under heavy workloads. I see you got the CPU to 110W, what did you use to stress it? I only ask because as I said earlier, the CPU can take what it needs but does not always what it has if that makes sense.

You did state that since the flash you have lower boost clocks but yes, they should be higher before and after. The reason why you have different "default" power settings are because the board manufacturer determines them, my board came with similar but I manually adjusted them to my liking.

What is your windows powerplan set to?

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

In that case it may well be your package power time limit, my default was 56 seconds before tweaking so try it on that, it will allow your CPU to maintain boost speeds for longer under heavy workloads. I see you got the CPU to 110W, what did you use to stress it? I only ask because as I said earlier, the CPU can take what it needs but does not always what it has if that makes sense.

You did state that since the flash you have lower boost clocks but yes, they should be higher before and after. The reason why you have different "default" power settings are because the board manufacturer determines them, my board came with similar but I manually adjusted them to my liking.

What is your windows powerplan set to?

hi, yes I adjust the Time Window to 56 - 58 (I think ). I don't see a difference in my performance but for the first couple of minutes from the Windows Boot my Speed is going from 3.4Ghz to 4.2Ghz all the time and it's around that too.
but when it comes to Full Usage, the Speed is the same at 4.1 GHz. I Set the PL1 and PL2 to the Manual Numbers but it didn't change a thing.

I use BenchMate y-Crhncher and Aida64 Stress Test, I'm an Editor and I use PR all the time for the rendering, the numbers are the same as 4.1GHz on the HWM and 3.88GHz on Task Manager.

Can I Set my PL1 to something Like 90? Like how can I Get the 148W even just for a second to make sure I'm not limited by anything?
I don't have a Cooling Problem as I mentioned and with all the settings and changes I made, my CPU is around 70c under.

My Windows Power Plan is Set On High Performance, I tried to change it to Balanced or even manually added Ultimate Power Plan. nothing changed.

Edit: New Attached file ♥

 

[Tatty_Two]

You are now boosting to 4.4/4.5+Gig across all P cores with 100% utilisation running Cinebench, not 4.1Gig.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

You are now boosting to 4.4/4.5+Gig across all P cores with 100% utilisation running Cinebench, not 4.1Gig.

Hi,
I just flashed my bios to the 1663 Bios update and the Power Limit got fixed.
btw if you check the current value of the cores they are on 4090Mhz and the Max is 4.4Ghz. the app was open for the past like 1hour that's why it got picked the 4.4Ghz 4.6Ghz on the Max. otherwise, it's on 4.1 GHz.

let me just run a quick R23 again to see if the new bios did something or not xD

Update: the R23 Score got higher and my CPU was able to pull 100W instead of 80~90W. but the temps got up to around 80c. and the CPU just did the exact something again and dropped from 4.1Ghz to3.4Ghz.
the PL1 and PL2 are on Default ( 65 - 148 ).

Update 2:
I just found out that when my CPU reaches 78c it drops from 4.1Ghz to around 3.1Ghz to 3.4Ghz. but it happened now and before that, it never touched 75c even and did the same thing that it's doing right now. but shouldn't it go up again after it cools down? it goes around 60c when it's on 3.4Ghz but it won't boost to 4.1Ghz again!
is there a way to change the power limit from 78 to something around 85c? I don't think my CPU is gonna get hurt at 85c and it's not even gonna reach there. I'm gonna play with the fan curve asap.

 

[N/A]

Set both PL to 148, because as you noticed 65 is cutting it too close, motherboards are not precisely showing this. set ot to at least 90 and up to 4095. Why are you bothering with this time frame.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

Set both PL to 148, because as you noticed 65 is cutting it too close, motherboards are not precisely showing this. set ot to at least 90 and up to 4095. Why are you bothering with this time frame.

Hi, but doesn't it mess the CPU up? if the lowest power that it can draw is 148 or 90 instead of 65?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Hi, but doesn't it mess the CPU up? if the lowest power that it can draw is 148 or 90 instead of 65?

No of course not, it's up to that setting which is the highest not lowest, setting PL2 to 4095 does not mean it will pull 4095w to perform a very minor single thread background task and in any case at those upper limits the CPU would throttle back before it exceeds 100C. Even if you wanted to be conservative setting for example PL1 @ 100w and PL2 @ 200w would just give a little more headroom when needed.
Have a play with power limits to see what is best for you, run CB23 monitored, check boost clock, package power and temps and tweak if needed.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

No of course not, it's up to that setting which is the highest not lowest, setting PL2 to 4095 does not mean it will pull 4095w to perform a very minor single thread background task and in any case at those upper limits the CPU would throttle back before it exceeds 100C. Even if you wanted to be conservative setting for example PL1 @ 100w and PL2 @ 200w would just give a little more headroom when needed.
Have a play with power limits to see what is best for you, run CB23 monitored, check boost clock, package power and temps and tweak if needed.

since the update, I can see that my CPU is pulling 10 to 15W more power but no higher Clock speed.
how does intel say 148w when it barely reaches 100W?
can't I change the Power Limit from 78c to something like 85c?

it's weird because doesn't the CPU just boost back up to the max speed when it's cooled down? i know it does but my CPU gets from 4.1Ghz on 78c to 3.2Ghz on 60c and won't get back up to 4.1Ghz to reach the 78c point and do the cycle over again.

 

[Tatty_Two]

78C is an odd number to throttle, I think most Intel CPU's have a Max Temp at 100 - 105C, the Intel Spec sheet for your CPU says 100C. Not knowing your motherboard and as you have a locked CPU I don't know if your motherboard will allow you to undervolt using a negative offset, take a look to see if that option is available and/or locked.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

78C is an odd number to throttle, I think most Intel CPU's have a Max Temp at 100 - 105C, the Intel Spec sheet for your CPU says 100C. Not knowing your motherboard and as you have a locked CPU I don't know if your motherboard will allow you to undervolt using a negative offset, take a look to see if that option is available and/or locked.

Hi, maybe I'm wrong but there should be a way to make my CPU use 148W power! but how. even R23 can't make my CPU push maximum TDP.

Update: you won't believe what causes the CPU to go under 4.1Ghz after several seconds! the ASUS Multicore Enhancement Tool in the Bios, I set it to remove the limit ( 90c ) and changed the PL1 to 90 and PL2 to 148 Default.

Now I'm getting the Full 4.1Ghz but after reaching 78c it gets dropped to 3.6Ghz With 85~90W usage and boosts backup after it gets under 70c. it's normal, right?

I have an Asus Prime Z790-P D4

Update 2:
I just changed the PL1 to the default 65W and after testing the CPU I realized that it would Drop to the PL1. So if I Put PL1 to 100 ( it was 90w and it dropped to 90w too on 3.6Ghz)


I'll update this if anything changes but so far I found out that the Window Time and PL1 are the main factors for my CPU if 78c Temp is not limiting it. but the 4.1 GHz is the maximum speed that I can get no matter What I do and it's fine as far as I can get the 4.1 GHz for more time I'm down for it.

btw is 80c a good temp? think it this way my PC would sometimes render for like 4h max and it's gonna be 80c for like 4h. it should be fine right?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Hi, maybe I'm wrong but there should be a way to make my CPU use 148W power! but how. even R23 can't make my CPU push maximum TDP.

Update: you won't believe what causes the CPU to go under 4.1Ghz after several seconds! the ASUS Multicore Enhancement Tool in the Bios, I set it to remove the limit ( 90c ) and changed the PL1 to 90 and PL2 to 148 Default.

Now I'm getting the Full 4.1Ghz but after reaching 78c it gets dropped to 3.6Ghz With 85~90W usage and boosts backup after it gets under 70c. it's normal, right?

I have an Asus Prime Z790-P D4

Update 2:
I just changed the PL1 to the default 65W and after testing the CPU I realized that it would Drop to the PL1. So if I Put PL1 to 100 ( it was 90w and it dropped to 90w too on 3.6Ghz)


I'll update this if anything changes but so far I found out that the Window Time and PL1 are the main factors for my CPU if 78c Temp is not limiting it. but the 4.1 GHz is the maximum speed that I can get no matter What I do and it's fine as far as I can get the 4.1 GHz for more time I'm down for it.

btw is 80c a good temp? think it this way my PC would sometimes render for like 4h max and it's gonna be 80c for like 4h. it should be fine right?

As I said before, Intel spec is up to 100C, personally I like to keep mine to 85 max, 80 is fine, if it concerns you being well within spec you might want to consider my earlier suggestion of seeing if your motherboard can undervolt your locked processor, setting a fixed negative offset of just 0.50mv can reduce temps by 5 - 7C and if done correctly not hinder performance, because assuming you have your core voltage set to auto all this does is tell the motherboard to give a little bit less than it thinks it needs on auto which often can be actually a little more than it needs.

 

[iameatingjam]

Before Updating my Bios to the latest version, the microcode X129 from intel. my i5 13400F gave me 3.88Ghz on 100% Usage without the Drop.
but since the update, I only get this speed for just like 10 to 15 sec and then it drops to 3.5Ghz or 3.2Ghz.
I checked my CPU power with AIDA64 and it goes from 89W to 35W when it clockes down. ( should I put the Voltages too? )
I have a 240MM Cooler but my CPU is around 55 to 68c on full load so I'm not terminal-limited.
I'm just worried that my CPU is cooked or not. I have tested my CPU with Benchmate and it passes just fine.

Sounds like you might have go into the bios and put long term power limits (PL1) at whatever short term power limits are at (PL2) or I might be mixing those two up again. Just find the one thats higher and make it so they match.

EDIT: intel says max turbo power for that cpu is 148 watts, so you could put them both at that. You also might be constrained by something else (iccmax?)

but why does Task manager Say 3.88Ghz? is it because it mixes the P and E cores?

Yes.

Hi, maybe I'm wrong but there should be a way to make my CPU use 148W power! but how. even R23 can't make my CPU push maximum TDP.

Update: you won't believe what causes the CPU to go under 4.1Ghz after several seconds! the ASUS Multicore Enhancement Tool in the Bios, I set it to remove the limit ( 90c ) and changed the PL1 to 90 and PL2 to 148 Default.

Now I'm getting the Full 4.1Ghz but after reaching 78c it gets dropped to 3.6Ghz With 85~90W usage and boosts backup after it gets under 70c. it's normal, right?

I have an Asus Prime Z790-P D4

Update 2:
I just changed the PL1 to the default 65W and after testing the CPU I realized that it would Drop to the PL1. So if I Put PL1 to 100 ( it was 90w and it dropped to 90w too on 3.6Ghz)


I'll update this if anything changes but so far I found out that the Window Time and PL1 are the main factors for my CPU if 78c Temp is not limiting it. but the 4.1 GHz is the maximum speed that I can get no matter What I do and it's fine as far as I can get the 4.1 GHz for more time I'm down for it.

btw is 80c a good temp? think it this way my PC would sometimes render for like 4h max and it's gonna be 80c for like 4h. it should be fine right?

Why do you keep putting pl1 to 65w thats whats causing the sudden drops in performance. If you don't want that, change it to 148 or 90 or whatever. Don't worry, if your cpu gets too hot it should throttle itself. Even if this was a b0 stepping, the lower the tier the lower the incidence rate, and this is pretty much as low as b0 goes. 80 is a fine temperature. If its too hot for you, there are other things you can do to reduce it ( turn up the fans), do a small voltage offset, slightly reduce the ac/dc loadline.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

Sounds like you might have go into the bios and put long term power limits (PL1) at whatever short term power limits are at (PL2) or I might be mixing those two up again. Just find the one thats higher and make it so they match.

EDIT: intel says max turbo power for that cpu is 148 watts, so you could put them both at that. You also might be constrained by something else (iccmax?)


Yes.


Why do you keep putting pl1 to 65w thats whats causing the sudden drops in performance. If you don't want that, change it to 148 or 90 or whatever. Don't worry, if your cpu gets too hot it should throttle itself. Even if this was a b0 stepping, the lower the tier the lower the incidence rate, and this is pretty much as low as b0 goes. 80 is a fine temperature. If its too hot for you, there are other things you can do to reduce it ( turn up the fans), do a small voltage offset, slightly reduce the ac/dc loadline.

Hi, thanks but how can I Under Volt my cput? because as far as I know I can't change the Voltage of the Non-K Intel Cpus.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Hi, thanks but how can I Under Volt my cput? because as far as I know I can't change the Voltage of the Non-K Intel Cpus.

Some Z790 boards allow you to I believe which is why I suggested you check your motherboard bios to see if you get the option, it would be under the advanced tab within the voltage group of entries.

 

[iameatingjam]

Hi, thanks but how can I Under Volt my cput? because as far as I know I can't change the Voltage of the Non-K Intel Cpus.

Ah yes you are right, you can't set offsets, my bad, I was just thinking about your Z board. But you can change your ac/dc loadline, which is similar. The default is 110. Try 90 and see if you see an improvement, if not try 80 or 70. Oh and see if you can turn CEP off ( before it was restricted to k chips on z boards, but thats recently changed to b boards and nonk chips, I'm just not sure if that would include a technically alder lake chip - did you ever find out your stepping?). But even with CEP on, it should still work as long as you don't take it too far ( by setting it to 40 for example).

First step would be turning up the fans though, make sure there's no dust in the case, obstructions in front on the fans, stuff like that. What about repasting, whens the last time you did that? Some pastes can dry out over time and become less effective.

That all being said. Its not like 80 is a dangerous temperature. Quite normal under load. As long as you didn't mean 80c idle, you don't really need to do anything.

 

[AlirezaGhanbari]

Ah yes you are right, you can't set offsets, my bad, I was just thinking about your Z board. But you can change your ac/dc loadline, which is similar. The default is 110. Try 90 and see if you see an improvement, if not try 80 or 70. Oh and see if you can turn CEP off ( before it was restricted to k chips on z boards, but thats recently changed to b boards and nonk chips, I'm just not sure if that would include a technically alder lake chip - did you ever find out your stepping?). But even with CEP on, it should still work as long as you don't take it too far ( by setting it to 40 for example).

First step would be turning up the fans though, make sure there's no dust in the case, obstructions in front on the fans, stuff like that. What about repasting, whens the last time you did that? Some pastes can dry out over time and become less effective.

That all being said. Its not like 80 is a dangerous temperature. Quite normal under load. As long as you didn't mean 80c idle, you don't really need to do anything.

Hi, What is AC/DC? And yeah 80c Max under Load, Idle is 39c.
I clean my PC every Week it's like my baby xD

one thing that confuses me is that if my CPU is only Pulling 100W and doing the Maximum Ghz that it can, why should I Put PL1 on 148? When 100w is giving me the full speed?
What's the benefit of it? Is it going to make my CPU go higher Ghz? because 4.1Ghz is the maximum frequency across all the P Cores