GTX 1080 - CPU requirments?

[AndyGawg]

Opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Recently I ran into a potential issue with my CPU. I would like to hear some opinions before I do anything, as I'm not 100% confident in this area.

So, I run an i5 3570k at 4.8GHz (won the lottery there!) on a Z77 board, with a single EVGA 1080 FTU with mild (+52MHz core), fan at 60%-65%. (NO GPU OC=similar to below.)
16GB DDR3 GSkill Trident running at 1,820MHz 8-9-9-24 1.56v.

I will give 2 examples of my issue, but there are more. These two fully illustrate my problem/possible problem.

1. Benchmarks: 3DMark Firestrike & Time Spy DX12. I have directly compared numerous other systems to mine with the only variable being the CPU. (Sometimes chipset Z87 etc)
CPU comparisons: 4 + 4 chips. e.g 3770k to 6770k. 8 threads total. vs my 4 cores no HT. i5.
Shocking, consistent findings.Scores for the graphics focused sub-tests are similar. However, for the CPU Sub-test 4 + 4 ave scores are MUCH higher. (Any gen chipset). e.g. Timespy 4 + 4 often 75% higher than mine!!
So, taking into account overclocking, chipset etc I have found that on these tests the CPU score (and therefore total score too) areapprox 45% - 80% betteron i7 than my i5 even with huge stable OC.

2.Gaming. Recently I highly tweaked Fallout 4 ini files. uGrids at 9, shadow map, distant detail etc all 50% to double Ultra settings. Uses 4.5GB VRAM and 6GB DDR3 after 1 hour play.
Since I did this I have had one blue screen. Fast running H100 water cooling fans, audible. Checking dumps and Event viewer the problem was clearly the CPU.

I always run HWIfo 64 background and every session all 4 cores get maxed at 100% with an average usage of over 70%. When the fan screams in wide vistas occasionally large fps drop, which recovers by looking down, back to rock steady. Before tweaks Always rock steady unchangeable fps. BTW the CPUdoesn't throttleor overheat due to tuning and strong cooling.

I think that at these high game settings, and in comprehensive Benchmarks, my i5 3570k @ 4.8GHz is the limiting factor.

Finally. Main Question: I have a spare newish i7 3770k which will run at 4.5GHz, maybe more. So it is easy to swap CPUs.Do you think I should install the i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz?

 

[P4-630]

If you have it?
Sure , just swap it!!
That's a no-brainer.

 

[64K]

Yeah, just put the 3770k in. I'm using a 3570k right now but waiting on 10nm Cannonlake for a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[AndyGawg]

Thanks P4 & 64K. Yeah, you are right. What's making me wait is perhaps silly, but I really like my golden i5. Additionally, how many cores games use is very interesting and bound to improve in future.
The whole topic, not just my case is fascinating and educational. (Well, for me. Ahem.)
Thanks again for your totally logical post. Will do soon.

 

[BirdyNV]

Recommend putting your miracle 3570k in a frame haha

 

[AndyGawg]

Recommend putting your miracle 3570k in a frame haha

Ha Ha, Yes I will when I have to retire it. I'll be using a gold frame.

 

[AndyGawg]

Yeah, just put the 3770k in. I'm using a 3570k right now but waiting on 10nm Cannonlake for a worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks. This will be (i5 to i7) a temporary free measure. Like you I am also looking forward to an upgrade. Cannonlake sounds intriguing. Been with Ivy Bridge for about 4 years I think. I guess you too.
Def time for a full upgrade!

 

[EarthDog]

Here is the answer we gave at OCF...

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/776046-CPU-amp-HIgh-end-Pascal-cards-Optimal-setup

1. Those futuremark benchmarks, the physics tests, are cpu only and factor into the score. The more cores/threads, the higher the score will be.

2. Clearly? Maybe. What was the bsod code?

While it's clear in those benchmarks it's a bottleneck, most games don't use more than four cores. Synthetic benchmarks are not a great way to compare against gaming performance.

As far as if you install the 3770k, it will surely help synthetic benchmarks... as for games, it depends on the title.

 

[AndyGawg]

Hey, Thanks EarthDog! Yes, I am fully aware about the physics test. I know those benches are not really highly relevant to everyday gaming but I included that to illustrate the point.

Your last sentence "it depends on the title." is what interests me. I have been under the impression that games still don't effectively utilize more than 4 cores. But that may be changing already?

BSOD, as I said, clearly. I always erase dumps. I could probably find the error code, but I have no intention of getting back into that. Please understand, I carefully check and search all big errors or BSOD,
but when I have a clear answer. (not always possible for me) I don't revisit it, just depressing. Luckily for me this was clear. Of course you don't need to believe that.

 

[BirdyNV]

I have been under the impression that games still don't effectively utilize more than 4 cores.

Try running a game like Arma III, Metro Last Light, or ARK Survival Evolved. These games are very CPU intensive, my 880K HATES ARK.

 

[Kanan]

Hey, Thanks EarthDog! Yes, I am fully aware about the physics test. I know those benches are not really highly relevant to everyday gaming but I included that to illustrate the point.

Your last sentence "it depends on the title." is what interests me. I have been under the impression that games still don't effectively utilize more than 4 cores. But that may be changing already?

BSOD, as I said, clearly. I always erase dumps. I could probably find the error code, but I have no intention of getting back into that. Please understand, I carefully check and search all big errors or BSOD,
but when I have a clear answer. (not always possible for me) I don't revisit it, just depressing. Luckily for me this was clear. Of course you don't need to believe that.

Well the best aaa games profit from it. Bf4, new bf1, crysis 3... it's a long list now. I would just try it out since you have both cpus. It certainly can't be worse because the 4 extra threads also help background tasks so there are more resources from the 4 cores for the game. I expect it to be about 10-20% better tops.

 

[xorbe]

You might be pushing too hard at 4.8 and it throttles back?

 

[Ebo]

I would go for the I7 any day.

 

[peche]

Recommend putting your miracle 3570k in a frame haha

come on ... i5's are strong processors... and they dont tend to get hoter since they have no HT,

I would go for the I7 any day.

no doubts... its gonna be a real boost...

Opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Recently I ran into a potential issue with my CPU. I would like to hear some opinions before I do anything, as I'm not 100% confident in this area.

So, I run an i5 3570k at 4.8GHz (won the lottery there!) on a Z77 board, with a single EVGA 1080 FTU with mild (+52MHz core), fan at 60%-65%. (NO GPU OC=similar to below.)
16GB DDR3 GSkill Trident running at 1,820MHz 8-9-9-24 1.56v.

I will give 2 examples of my issue, but there are more. These two fully illustrate my problem/possible problem.

1. Benchmarks: 3DMark Firestrike & Time Spy DX12. I have directly compared numerous other systems to mine with the only variable being the CPU. (Sometimes chipset Z87 etc)
CPU comparisons: 4 + 4 chips. e.g 3770k to 6770k. 8 threads total. vs my 4 cores no HT. i5.
Shocking, consistent findings.Scores for the graphics focused sub-tests are similar. However, for the CPU Sub-test 4 + 4 ave scores are MUCH higher. (Any gen chipset). e.g. Timespy 4 + 4 often 75% higher than mine!!
So, taking into account overclocking, chipset etc I have found that on these tests the CPU score (and therefore total score too) areapprox 45% - 80% betteron i7 than my i5 even with huge stable OC.

2.Gaming. Recently I highly tweaked Fallout 4 ini files. uGrids at 9, shadow map, distant detail etc all 50% to double Ultra settings. Uses 4.5GB VRAM and 6GB DDR3 after 1 hour play.
Since I did this I have had one blue screen. Fast running H100 water cooling fans, audible. Checking dumps and Event viewer the problem was clearly the CPU.

I always run HWIfo 64 background and every session all 4 cores get maxed at 100% with an average usage of over 70%. When the fan screams in wide vistas occasionally large fps drop, which recovers by looking down, back to rock steady. Before tweaks Always rock steady unchangeable fps. BTW the CPUdoesn't throttleor overheat due to tuning and strong cooling.

I think that at these high game settings, and in comprehensive Benchmarks, my i5 3570k @ 4.8GHz is the limiting factor.

Finally. Main Question: I have a spare newish i7 3770k which will run at 4.5GHz, maybe more. So it is easy to swap CPUs.Do you think I should install the i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz?

if you have the i7 used, sell the i5 now that you might have a great resale value!

Regards,



Regards,

 

[Komshija]

If you must, than go for i7 3770K. That i5 with such OC still offers reasonable power.

 

[AndyGawg]

Hey guys, I've made a decision based on answers here and on two other forums. It's the i7, next weekend I'll plug her up.

I can't vouch for this, but one guy who seems to "know his stuff," said that with the advent of Pascal (1070 1080 and up) i5 just can't handle pascal. He has seen some videos and tests and I believe him. Another senior member backed this up. BTW they both said it will get worse with time. i7 XXXXk is the standard now and i5 just doesn't do the the Pascal 1070 and higher justice. That's according to them. I didn't know this, and some of you may dis-agree. Fair enough.
I think they are right though simply from what I have observed, even with my juicy OC.

No one, anywhere has recommended sticking with the i5. So many people say go for the i7, a few say try it out. No one says don't bother.

So thermal paste out at the weekend.

I want to thank everyone who posted here. All the posts have been great and useful. So thank you all.

Almost forgot:

You might be pushing too hard at 4.8 and it throttles back?

Amazingly it never throttles. I use H100i water twin fan cooler, and offset voltage, just a tiny above stock, and lower than stock on pll. A few years ago I got it running at over 5GHz. That freaked me out so I didn't go any further, but I will now. (No crashes after Prime 95. Intel Burn test. Realbench and more. Oh 3DMark 7 too. hours at over 5GHz max usage, not one crash, never any throttling.) It was years ago so memory is fuzzy but it was over 5GHz, possibly 5.1GHz. I'll understand if anyone finds that hard to believe. I do too. But done it, seen it. Going to frame it in solid gold, display on the wall over my monitor. I will never sell this chip. I love that silicon gold.

Once again, a big thank you for all the great input. Cheers.

 

[EarthDog]

My suggestion is to stick to a forum you trust. You, essentially, received the same answers at these two places. I'd also suggest not to buy in so easily on hearsay. Many people 'seem to know their stuff', few really do. I'd like to see the videos this guy is talking about personally....

Please don't misunderstand me, the overall take away, to get the 3770k is good advice...however, I am not so sure about ivybridge quads on up really hold back an entire gpu architecture. Will it hd back cpu intensive games that can use more threads, sure it can. Here is one example where a LOWER clocked sandybridge is 3 fps behind the latest generation and quad + HT chips. Or, look at the i5 4690k... same fps as the rest there...yep, it's an i5!!! If any cpu holds these high end pascal gpus back, it's amd cpus no matter what the thread count.

http://www.techspot.com/review/1235-deus-ex-mankind-divided-benchmarks/page5.html

Here is a cpu heavy title..but note it's the game stressing out the cpu, not the gpu...http://www.techspot.com/review/1180-overwatch-benchmarks/page5.html

980ti vs cpu in Doom -
http://www.techspot.com/review/1173-doom-benchmarks/page5.html

It is game dependent. So again, while they were correct with the advice of 3770k, just not sure the 'work' lead them to the right answer.

PS - I am, thankfully, not a moderator here. Just a regular guy posting at TPU.

 

[AndyGawg]

All good points, thanks again! I should have said seeing as I am not well known here that in fact I test and retest almost obsessively! Having built a total of 12 desktops starting with lga1366 x58, and always spending many hours on each trying to get the best possible, but stable performance. (I've even sold a few after letting the buyer test whatever he or she wants).

I suppose I have come across as somewhat naive. My fault. Bottom line on this is I will test the i7 with HT off, then with all on 4+4 with my usual assortment of benches, stress tests, and of course real life use, gaming. Then I'll have 3 sets of data. i5 @ 4.8GHz vs-- i7 no HT @ 4.5GHz/4.6GHz vs-- i7 Full 8 thread utilization at 4.5/4.6GHz. All on the same mobo, same gpu, same everything in fact.
This methodical approach is my normal way, but it hasn't come across like that in my posts here.

Anyway, back on topic:
It will take a while, but it's my hobby so that's great. I should have mentioned in my original post my testing plans. Darn!! But I always like to hear what others have to say. Sometimes a different angle, idea comes up. Finally, I was daft to say, "people seem who know their stuff." No link either, ahh bad start on these forums. You have been a big help in fact pointing stuff out that is very useful. I say that, because I really can't fault anything you say, and I am a newb on these forums. Cheers, EarthDog!!

Edit: Hey thanks for those two links. Good. Reading from now!

 

[EarthDog]

If you are going to test (what others have already tested) make sure it's at the same clockspeed for each cpu HT on/off.

I assure you though, the only relevant testing (for you and what people care about) is what you do, gaming. HT on/off stress testing is pointless. Anyone worth their while here can tell you what that yields (lower temps with HT off and slightly less voltage).

3D Benchmarks, futuremark ones, don't bother there as they use cpu/physics score in overall score. I can beat out a 1080 using a 6700k with a 1070 and my 6950x . Clearly in 99% of gaming situations, that won't happen.

Same thing with encoding/rendering general use... already tested. See the Google machine.

 

[Slizzo]

Yeah, I have a 2500K at 4.5GHz, and I don't see it really holding my gaming back much at all. Sure I don't benchmark great overall in 3dMark, but the GPU scores still are good. The FPS is still good.

Still waiting for Zen to drop however to decide if my next upgrade will be AMD or Intel.

 

[Recon-UK]

Really depends highly on monitor refresh rate, FPS expected and if the game plays smooth.
I noticed between my Phenom II and my XEON that yes there are games that have a massive gain going to the XEON, but i was only unhappy because where it mattered to me i needed higher FPS like Battlefield games.
I could easily max out the GPU and that was a GTX 580 but a 580 can't max Battlefield 4 with above 60FPS so clearly this was a CPU limitation because lowering graphics made a small difference.

Stop looking at benchmarks to gather your so called ideal, if a game is running at refresh or above that's great it's not a bottleneck because it is fulfilling the monitors capability.
On the other end too if it's performance is below 60 look up benchmarks and see how far behind you are or if that particular game has issues on certain hardware.


Bottleneck is thrown around far too much, i am massively bottlenecked in CSGO but that's because it is Source engine with a GTX 670, even a GTX 670 is MASSIVE overkill for CSGO and won't see 100% utility in any case because it is sapping everything from the 2 threads of my XEON and relies only on IPC rather than overall processor performance. 190-500FPS is not a bottleneck.

 

[EarthDog]

It is a bottleneck when with 'modern' cpus it gets a lot more.

 

[Recon-UK]

As i said define it how you will, looking at a GPU utilization number besides getting more than enough FPS to play the game even competitively lol.

But elitism is what it is.

 

[EarthDog]

As i said define it how you will....

....But elitism is what it is.

I mean... I... I just dont know how to respond to that... my mind is blown.

Having enough FPS for a game can still have a bottleneck. It has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with getting the most out of what you buy... removing a glass ceiling if you will.

It's a kick in the pants(wallet), to me, to buy something and not use it to its full potential regardless if it's 'good enough'. This is why I buy modern intel cpus, to get the most out of my system/gpu.

 

[RealNeil]

Hey guys, I've made a decision based on answers here and on two other forums. It's the i7, next weekend I'll plug her up.

Let us know what kind of clocks you get with the i7 part in your system.