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Handling thermal throttling on I7-11800H

R-Zer0

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Feb 8, 2023
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Dear community. I am "happy" user of MSI Creator Z16. But I became unhappy when my laptop started BSODing during playing games with high temperature. I am not experienced with undervolting but found this can help me to reduce my processor temperature during games. I don't actually need make my PC run stable, but when I started trying to change this settings based on what I managed on this forum and redit. For some time it was successful. But yesdterday my PC started BSODing again. SO I am here seeking for help to improve my settings and stabilize my PC.

My configuration is I7-11800H and RTX 3060
Attached Throttle stop screenshots and log
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
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When setting the turbo power limits, check both Clamp boxes.
This can help keep your maximum power limit at 40W like you have requested.

1675878014881.png


As long as Clamp is checked and working correctly, you should be able to set PL1 to 45W or 50W and you can set PL2 to 60W. Update these settings and then run another log file so I can see if the power limits are being enforced.

The default 28 second turbo time limit is too much for most laptops. Consider reducing that to about 8 seconds.

In the FIVR window I like to set IccMax for both the core and the cache to the maximum, 255.75. This helps avoid any IccMax throttling issues.

The log file shows that when your CPU is allowed to run at between 70W and 75W, it heats up to 95°C at which point it starts to thermal throttle. Allowing a CPU to constantly thermal throttle like this can cause stability issues. If using Clamp does not solve this problem then you need to improve cooling or lower the turbo ratios some more to reduce the amount of heat your CPU is producing. Less maximum performance is not ideal but it is better than randomly crashing because of too much heat.

The 11800H is a powerful mobile CPU. Too bad MSI did not include better cooling. You need better cooling to take full advantage of its performance.
 

R-Zer0

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Feb 8, 2023
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Updated Core and Cache IccMax to 255,75, set boss checkboxes like that :
1675883184022.png

After some time playing I end up with BSOD

Reduced values
1675885263087.png

looks like more stable bust still temp throttle
 

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Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Messages
595 (1.46/day)
System Name Asus G16
Processor i9 13980HX
Motherboard Asus motherboard
Cooling 2 fans
Memory 32gb 4800mhz cl40
Video Card(s) 4080 laptop
Storage 16tb, x2 8tb SSD
Display(s) QHD+ 16:10 (2560 x 1600, WQXGA) 240hz
Power Supply 330w psu
Dear community. I am "happy" user of MSI Creator Z16. But I became unhappy when my laptop started BSODing during playing games with high temperature. I am not experienced with undervolting but found this can help me to reduce my processor temperature during games. I don't actually need make my PC run stable, but when I started trying to change this settings based on what I managed on this forum and redit. For some time it was successful. But yesdterday my PC started BSODing again. SO I am here seeking for help to improve my settings and stabilize my PC.

My configuration is I7-11800H and RTX 3060
Attached Throttle stop screenshots and log
Your MSI laptop has advanced bios that lets you undervolt the processor.
When you start up the laptop, press "delete", then press Alt, control, shift, and F2.
*If throttlestop doesnt work.

I wonder if throttlestop works on 11th gen processors.
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
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I wonder if throttlestop works on 11th gen processors.
ThrottleStop works correctly on 11th Gen CPUs.

@R-Zer0
Your log file shows that when the Nvidia GPU is active, the CPU running at less than 35W is enough to trigger thermal throttling. You need to improve cooling or lower the power limits more to prevent constant thermal throttling.

It looks like things are getting worse. When did you last replace the thermal paste? What did you use? If your first answer is never then it is time for some house cleaning inside your laptop.
 

R-Zer0

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It looks like things are getting worse. When did you last replace the thermal paste? What did you use? If your first answer is never then it is time for some house cleaning inside your laptop.
The problem it is new laptop that I bought last summer, and this problem was present from the beginning, I did some undervolting as I described in the first post and was able play without BSOD, but seems like it doesn't work anymore. I guess the only option is warranty service, ask them to check, I was hoping to avoid this, since I know it can take months ...
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
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warranty service
I would not waste time shipping my laptop to anyone for warranty service like this, especially if it is going to take many weeks or months. Watch a YouTube video. Learn how to do this basic maintenance procedure yourself. Someone at a shop might have lots of experience doing this but that does not mean they are any good at it. They might make things worse and then what? Send it back to them so they can try harder next time? Go buy a screw driver kit and get to work.

this problem was present from the beginning
That is the real problem. No one bothers to return laptops that are defective. Manufacturers are not motivated to improve what they sell if no one ever complains.
 

R-Zer0

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That is the real problem. No one bothers to return laptops that are defective. Manufacturers are not motivated to improve what they sell if no one ever complains.
I was complaining twice in the official MSI support they suggested me to apply for the service:) . The problem if I open it I will loose warranty, that is mine concern.
 

ProgUn1corn

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Hi, I maybe late to this but I'm also using Creator Z16 and I'm running fine. This are my settings:
Profile 1 is pretty much unlimited in FIVR, basically maximizing performance and I use this with DAW which requires minimum latency, also in Davinci Resolve or something like them where GPU isn't prioritized and the laptop is capable of cooling;
Profile 2 is for gaming where CPU power isn't needed 100%, I limit it in FIVR to maximum about 35-40w and it's pretty enough for games I play. This will leave more headroom to GPU and stress less CPU.
Profile 3 is for battery where all things I do are web browsing and office work, so no need to be super fast and maximum of 22w is more than enough. Although 185 speed shift is a bit much, but it worked fine.
Profile 4 is for emergency battery saver where everything is tuned down and it only activate at 5% battery.
All profiles set ICCmax to 255.75 except 4, with 50mv undervolt. Speedshift is 0 on profile 1, 82 on 2 and 185 on 3. TPL is PL1 66w and PL2 90w, turbo time is 8sec which I find at least my model can do this without problem. Also PROCHOT to 100 degree but you can be conservative at 98 or 99. I use FIVR to manually limit max power to prevent unnecessary heat and power draw.
I uninstalled every MSI app like Nahimic and Center Pro. Also flashed ROG M16's Vbios so the GPU is 80w at base. For some reason (Dynamic Boost I guess) it won't go upto 95w as the Vbios, but it could get 85W. When stressing both CPU and GPU, I get stable 45w+80w load.
This is without a thermal paste repaste. I can guarantee that you will find even better result with something like Honeywell 7950. I did this to my Prestige 15 which has 10710u and I get at least 5 degrees temp drop. MSI uses pretty bad thermal paste. Change paste in Creator Z16 could be a bit more hassle because the motherboard is reversed but doable with your own.
The problem I get is I can't get C0 lower than 1% at idle, the CPU always consume about 1-1.5w of power. This is probably I have some programs that are needed in the background. DisplayCal and my audio interface's control panel.
 

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Joined
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apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!

This is without a thermal paste repaste. I can guarantee that you will find even better result with something like Honeywell 7950. I did this to my Prestige 15 which has 10710u and I get at least 5 degrees temp drop.
do you mention that paste as it's good for high temperature use? i heard that different thermal materials are better suited for different temp ranges, so it makes sense to use something specific for high temp when dealing with laptops and passive systems

apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!
 

ProgUn1corn

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apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!


do you mention that paste as it's good for high temperature use? i heard that different thermal materials are better suited for different temp ranges, so it makes sense to use something specific for high temp when dealing with laptops and passive systems

apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!
Any thermal paste for laptops should be good in the range of a CPU. Laptop CPUs will typically run from 40c to about 100c, within that range it should be good. Actually performancce is not the only thing we look for, longevity is another important thing for laptop. Unlike desktop CPUs where you have IHS to spread heat, laptop are basically direct die contact and that will have focused high temperature, and really fast changes since the burst workload is more important on a laptop. Traditional thermal paste is not good for that because after cycles it become dry. PTM 7950 can retain the thermal performance after a year or two, so it's a good option.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Messages
595 (1.46/day)
System Name Asus G16
Processor i9 13980HX
Motherboard Asus motherboard
Cooling 2 fans
Memory 32gb 4800mhz cl40
Video Card(s) 4080 laptop
Storage 16tb, x2 8tb SSD
Display(s) QHD+ 16:10 (2560 x 1600, WQXGA) 240hz
Power Supply 330w psu
apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!


do you mention that paste as it's good for high temperature use? i heard that different thermal materials are better suited for different temp ranges, so it makes sense to use something specific for high temp when dealing with laptops and passive systems

apparently average gen 11 undervolt is much lower than 8th and 9th gen, still nice to see it's working again after the gen 10 lock

anyone tried to tune memory timings? I will work on a 16z soon hopefully, and will try to squeeze every inch of performance out of it!
The 11th gen was completely different processor than the 8,9,10th gen. New node and new architecture, 6-10th gen are pretty much the same architecture and same node.
 
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I don't think high temperature alone can cause BSOD, I would just RMA that rather than try to fix it myself.
 
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The 11th gen was completely different processor than the 8,9,10th gen. New node and new architecture, 6-10th gen are pretty much the same architecture and same node.
Well.. yeah, i know? But desktop gen 12 is again running in the range of -150 for locked cpus. So, 11th gen is really an outlier - back to double digit offsets on the cpu only shortly.

Anyway, for 11th gen most important thing is set gear mode to 1, that gives a 30% improvement in latency.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Messages
595 (1.46/day)
System Name Asus G16
Processor i9 13980HX
Motherboard Asus motherboard
Cooling 2 fans
Memory 32gb 4800mhz cl40
Video Card(s) 4080 laptop
Storage 16tb, x2 8tb SSD
Display(s) QHD+ 16:10 (2560 x 1600, WQXGA) 240hz
Power Supply 330w psu
Well.. yeah, i know? But desktop gen 12 is again running in the range of -150 for locked cpus. So, 11th gen is really an outlier - back to double digit offsets on the cpu only shortly.

Anyway, for 11th gen most important thing is set gear mode to 1, that gives a 30% improvement in latency.
If you know so well, then you cant also put the 12th gen in there, the 12th gen is different from all others by adding e-cores.
 
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If you know so well, then you cant also put the 12th gen in there, the 12th gen is different from all others by adding e-cores.
I build 90% of the systems with 12400f / 12500 / 12600 so... not relevant at all

11 gen notebook seem similar to 5th gen notebook, wich also undervolts in the 60-80 range similar to haswell but unlike Skylake that was more in the 80/150 range
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Messages
595 (1.46/day)
System Name Asus G16
Processor i9 13980HX
Motherboard Asus motherboard
Cooling 2 fans
Memory 32gb 4800mhz cl40
Video Card(s) 4080 laptop
Storage 16tb, x2 8tb SSD
Display(s) QHD+ 16:10 (2560 x 1600, WQXGA) 240hz
Power Supply 330w psu
I build 90% of the systems with 12400f / 12500 / 12600 so... not relevant at all

11 gen notebook seem similar to 5th gen notebook, wich also undervolts in the 60-80 range similar to haswell but unlike Skylake that was more in the 80/150 range
You cant build a laptop.
 
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These are 12th gen desktop CPUs with no E Cores

in the end:

70 mv on cores

50mv on cache

70 mv on igpu

25mv on System Agent / Uncore, as i run 3200mhz ram in gear1 mode (huge improvement in performance there)

really amazing to be working on MSI Notebooks with advanced menu!
 

Wolfsko

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These are 12th gen desktop CPUs with no E Cores

in the end:

70 mv on cores

50mv on cache

70 mv on igpu

25mv on System Agent / Uncore, as i run 3200mhz ram in gear1 mode (huge improvement in performance there)

really amazing to be working on MSI Notebooks with advanced menu!
how do you set ram in gear 1 mode?
 
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