Hardware Elitism - a tech scourge that needs to die.

[NaeTrain]

Clap ! Clap ! Props for sticking your neck out. I've been lurking for years but your post actually compelled me to say something.

These days there is no need for top spec gear. The industry dragged a** for so long that it just doesn't matter like it used to. This round of hardware shortages is showcasing the real talent in the community. Anyone with money can buy the most expensive of everything and slap it together for some great numbers / Yawn. Now lets see them do it with used parts and yesterday's tech.

Manufacturers have locked the industry down tight. Crossfire and SLI are all but dead. Intel has all but killed overclocking and AMD leaves no room. When buying used gear I constantly see never oc'ed labels attached to parts obviously made for overclocking. Then why buy K and X cpus? Why buy AIO liquid coolers? Why buy X570 motherboards? Buying the newest part is meaningless. How much potential is just left sitting? Seems like priorities are all smeshed up. Have fun, experiment, push boundaries, be creative and take everything you can. Do something hard.

 

[Mussels]

Clap ! Clap ! Props for sticking your neck out. I've been lurking for years but your post actually compelled me to say something.

These days there is no need for top spec gear. The industry dragged a** for so long that it just doesn't matter like it used to. This round of hardware shortages is showcasing the real talent in the community. Anyone with money can buy the most expensive of everything and slap it together for some great numbers / Yawn. Now lets see them do it with used parts and yesterday's tech.

Manufacturers have locked the industry down tight. Crossfire and SLI are all but dead. Intel has all but killed overclocking and AMD leaves no room. When buying used gear I constantly see never oc'ed labels attached to parts obviously made for overclocking. Then why buy K and X cpus? Why buy AIO liquid coolers? Why buy X570 motherboards? Buying the newest part is meaningless. How much potential is just left sitting? Seems like priorities are all smeshed up. Have fun, experiment, push boundaries, be creative and take everything you can. Do something hard.

the only one of those questions with a reasonable answer was x570 for the PCI-E 4.0 lanes -more expansions lots and high speed NVME slots
people are treating cosmetics like they alter performance, and 1% gains in rare situations like they're the end-all

 

[kapone32]

What bothers me are people that spend a premium for the label of level of product and then lord it over people. The PC space used to be fun in terms of hardware when you could get things for a decent pricing. Unfortunately we now live in a space where propoganda influences everything. Why did several big Youtubers do a challenge of 2 3090 SLI benchmark competition when Nvidia was screaming loud that they no longer supported SLI?

 

[dirtyferret]

Unfortunately we now live in a space where propoganda influences everything

now???

 

[Bill_Bright]

I remember buying my first flat screen 15in . I caught hell from the CRT elitists

That's really odd because it was definitely the exact opposite in my experience. The early LCD buyers were clearly the ones with the elitist attitudes, looking down their noses at us CRT holdouts for still using big, bulky, heat generating, ancient technology, energy hogs.

I sure thought that was a bit ironic at the time considering the image quality of CRTs was superior, and remained superior for several years - unless you were willing to spend up towards $1000 for top-of-the-line LCDs.

It was only after larger screen (17 and 19") LCDs, smaller pixels, digital inputs (the first LCDs were VGA/analog only) and lower prices that LCDs finally started to take over the market. They only finally clinched it when widescreens became affordable and then the norm. There were (and are) still some who prefer the "warmth" (no pun or reference to heat) of the analog image. I am not saying CRTs will make a comeback 'vinyl record' style. But there are still some who would go back to CRT if someone would come out with something in the 22 to 24" widescreen size at an affordable price. But considering CRTs require a couple pounds of lead for shielding, I doubt that will ever happen.

Luckies are less irritating

LOL. I remember those ads. I remember little 4-packs of cigarettes were given out free on airlines. But that ad was right - just like 4 bee stings are less irritating than 5 bee stings is true too.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Marketing tells people "buy our newest shiny stuff or you are shit, not a human" every minute of every day. People who buy the newest shiny stuff feel better than all those shit people who don't, simply because people are genetically programmed to do anything and everything to feel better than others, that's an integral part of tribal culture humans evolved in for a few hundred thousand years. Females feel better if they have more shiny rocks than other females, males feel better the more shiny things with which they can attract those females they have. That's why I consider myself a radical misanthrope and don't consider humans a worthwhile species.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Females feel better if they have more shiny rocks than other females, males feel better the more shiny things with which they can attract those females they have.

The Enchanting Pebble

blog.nus.edu.sg

What makes this penguin so special? To us, pebbles are just ugly stones/rocks found along beaches. To the Adelie penguin, these pebbles are their most prized possession. A pebble to them is equivalent to a diamond for human.

Adelie penguin uses pebbles and other small rocks to make their nests. Because they live on the frozen, barren Antartica coast, pebbles can be scarce and hard to find. Often, these penguins are notorious for stealing each other pebbles and fighting ferociously over these precious little rocks.

Just an FYI: but such behavior is not unique to humans.

EDIT: Ah right, and this part:

These precious pebbles possess yet another enchanting purpose. During courtship, the male will present the female with a pebble as a gift. If the female accepts the generous gift, they bond and mate for life. These pebbles hold considerable value and they are also symbols of affection toward a mate.

 

[EsaT]

Some are. But flight and car simulator programs, for example, are much more entertaining and realistic when 3 monitors provide a full frontal and wrap around view.

Games happening in one more or less flat plane definitely benefit from it greatly.
But military flight sims and especially space sims would also need vertical coverage of field of view.

And in that development is actually going backwards because of fashion and marketing...
Lots of people hype those "ultrawide" screens as some second coming of Jesus, even basically claiming that's needed to be enthusiast/gamer.
While those are really more like ultralow screens consuming more desk space for less vertical image size.

But there are still some who would go back to CRT if someone would come out with something in the 22 to 24" widescreen size at an affordable price.

SED/FED would have operated kinda like flattened CRT. (or panel of tiny pixel size CRTs)
But SED's development was killed by patent trolls, economic downturn and then OLED hype.
And now we're still stuck with old very compromised LCDs, because OLED's permanent problem is fragility of that fancy schmancy organic part...

Well, maybe after another LCD update I can finally buy true good tech flat screen without LCD's scrappy viewing angles, contrast, response times challenges etc...
Bought current monitor in December 2013 thinking that way.

Marketing tells people "buy our newest shiny stuff or you are shit, not a human" every minute of every day. People who buy the newest shiny stuff feel better than all those shit people who don't, simply because people are genetically programmed to do anything and everything to feel better than others, that's an integral part of tribal culture humans evolved in for a few hundred thousand years. Females feel better if they have more shiny rocks than other females, males feel better the more shiny things with which they can attract those females they have. That's why I consider myself a radical misanthrope and don't consider humans a worthwhile species.

You forgot the part of being programmed to make justifications for spending money for absolutely no actual good in performance, features or longevity.

 

[Bill_Bright]

But military flight sims and especially space sims would also need vertical coverage of field of view.

Ummm, civilian aircraft don't have vertical movement?

Any flight sim, not just military can benefit from vertically stacked monitors. I saw a 6 x 32" setup once. It was pretty cool, but way over the top for me. The whole setup, including fancy chair, headphones, controller with foot peddles, was over $15,000. I could not justify in my own head spending that kind of money on a computer. But then I'm no millionaire either.

 

[kapone32]

now???

Hahahaa

Ummm, civilian aircraft don't have vertical movement?

Any flight sim, not just military can benefit from vertically stacked monitors. I saw a 6 x 32" setup once. It was pretty cool, but way over the top for me. The whole setup, including fancy chair, headphones, controller with foot peddles, was over $15,000. I could not justify in my own head spending that kind of money on a computer. But then I'm no millionaire either.

Agreed I feel there is some confusion as some hardware updates do make sense.

 

[Kursah]

So, I'm posting this as a reaction to a few recent threads where I've seen people being ridiculed for having a 'below par' hardware set-up. Whether that be a lower level GFX card, a lower core CPU, or an AIO from DELL, a portion of the community reaction has been absolutely appalling. I made some life choices and have the fortune of a stable, mediocre salary and no kids. My last great PC splurge was a 2080ti. The last time I would spend 4 figures on what to me is a toy (and that came from an inheritance). And I class myself as fortunate. There are more people on this forum who can't buy 'top end' kit than those that do. And occasionally, a thread appears where someone posts about what they've bought. Those who buy something that doesn't meet some magical 'tech standard' appear to be mocked.

It's a disgrace. A despicable representation of the worst of ourselves.

Maybe I'm being harsh but last time I mocked somebody for being less fortunate than myself was... no wait, I'm not that much of an arsehole. And before you all get antsy and say TPU is a tech forum; that doesn't excuse the elitism that has begun to appear. Who cares what somebody buys - what we're here to do is support and advise. TPU is a community that has a broad spectrum of incomes and expenditure. Certainly, as the world has turned, hardware is getting more and more expensive. Not everybody is earning more and more cash. Heads up, I earn less than my nations average income (no kids goes a long way to making it easier to buy shit I actually don't need). It's hard for me to justify a £1000 gfx card these days.

So, when somebody buys something that might not be cutting edge, it's a loser's move to make fun of it. TPU is about tech, whether it's the cheapest, or the most expensive. We should make that person feel happy with their purchase, perhaps advise on future improvements. Certainly, laughing emoji's posted as a response to a purchase are pathetic. They say more about the member's reaction than they do about the OP's purchase. Tech starts as a bargain bucket purchase. Or a hand-me-down. By the way, feel free to Pay It Forward. It can climb all the way to a HOF RTX 3090. And just as the budget scale, it shows weakness to mock someone spending at the other end. Tech is tech. People have different budgets. Whatever that budget, TPU should offer support. Not condemnation. Certainly not mockery.

Just my two cents about some very disturbing recent trends. As a mod. If I see it happening, I'll just start handing out infractions left, right and center.

If you can't support the community, why are you even here?

Would like to see this topic get back on track, OP quoted for reference to what kicked things off.

 

[moproblems99]

If anyone read this thread, all they figured out was it was humans being humans. @the54thvoid , if we people are being assholes, tell them and give em a vacay. Then move on.

If they are still an asshole, ban them again.

If they are an ass hole a turd time, throw asses out the club.

Remember, assholes gonna asshole.

 

[sneekypeet]

If anyone read this thread, all they figured out was it was humans being humans. @the54thvoid , if we people are being assholes, tell them and give em a vacay. Then move on.

If they are still an asshole, ban them again.

If they are an ass hole a turd time, throw asses out the club.

Remember, assholes gonna asshole.

That is just but one side of things. Said rules apply for so long, then they (members) always make their way back in under some guise to improve, which never ends up panning out, but the game must still be played, adding to the stress of the moderation.

Maybe I'm out of line, maybe the reality needed to be said. It is never as cut and dry as you want it to be.

Edit:

I feel this thread is a vent from the team trying to play good cop to you all (me included), rather than having to go to the lengths of what I quoted above. Sort of like explaining commons sense or street smarts to those uncommon folk and those who live on water.

The topic needed to be addressed, and I feel it was handled well.

 

[moproblems99]

That is just but one side of things. Said rules apply for so long, then they (members) always make their way back in under some guise to improve, which never ends up panning out, but the game must still be played, adding to the stress of the moderation.

Maybe I'm out of line, maybe the reality needed to be said. It is never as cut and dry as you want it to be.

I understand. Nothing is black and white and shades of gray. The rules aren't difficult. Most of the people either know the are breaking them or are just assholes. In either case, the result should be the same. Chances don't need to be infinite. No one deserves TPU, TPU is a privilege. If they can't handle it, they don't have it.

 

[sneekypeet]

I understand. Nothing is black and white and shades of gray. The rules aren't difficult. Most of the people either know the are breaking them or are just assholes. In either case, the result should be the same. Chances don't need to be infinite. No one deserves TPU, TPU is a privilege. If they can't handle it, they don't have it.

Text ripped right out of my heart!

I was the bad cop, and you expressed my mantra as a supermod

Also, to be fair, my one warning was for being an asshole!

 

[stinger608]

Here is a perfect example of what's going on and what this thread is all about.

DUDE IT'S A DELL

Hello everybody. Im getting new DELL PC soon my Dad and Stepmom ordered it for me from costco. Even though I just got a hp laptop last summer. I am getting this to replace my aging desktop in my room along with a wireless printer. Specifications Brand Dell Computer Type All-in-One Features...

www.techpowerup.com

I have stopped posting as much as I used to due to many members attempting to start arguing with opinions on things, hardware, or other things.

Not only due I find @the54thvoid 's original post about giving people crap about their choice in hardware, but also about general attitudes toward other members.

 

[lexluthermiester]

i got 2x32" and see no genuine use for two monitors outside of specific 2D workloads

Your use case scenario is clearly different from others. I'm very much with Bill on this one, multi monitor setups fill a need in ways no single display can handle.

Truth is the moment you do something with technology its like outdated the next day.

That's not as true as it used to be.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Here is a perfect example of what's going on and what this thread is all about.

DUDE IT'S A DELL

Hello everybody. Im getting new DELL PC soon my Dad and Stepmom ordered it for me from costco. Even though I just got a hp laptop last summer. I am getting this to replace my aging desktop in my room along with a wireless printer. Specifications Brand Dell Computer Type All-in-One Features...

www.techpowerup.com

I have stopped posting as much as I used to due to many members attempting to start arguing with opinions on things, hardware, or other things.

Not only due I find @the54thvoid 's original post about giving people crap about their choice in hardware, but also about general attitudes toward other members.

Enthusiasts argue about lots of things, maybe senseless things. But that's what makes us enthusiasts: having opinions on different parts! I've been on both sides of this: I've been to communities that were "too elite" and made some people feel unwelcome. But I've also been to communities that were so watered down that no discussion or self-improvement ever happened.

The "elitists", for better or worse, have highly opinionated opinions. This is useful and helpful when debating and discussing different parts. Its unhelpful in the context of newbies or beginners.

At least in video game forums, there are "beginner" and "advanced" communities, or "casual" vs "hardcore". The casuals often talk about story details, art quality, music... while the "hardcore" talk about speedrunning, optimial strategies, or whatever. Both are important for an overall community, but its important to remember that the two sides are completely different people. And a good community needs to serve both sides.

For some websites: they exclusively cater to one side or the other. Its not necessary for one community to serve both needs simultaneously: other websites can form an "alliance" or "rivalry", and help organize / categorize visitors appropriately.

 

[95Viper]

Thread has wandered all over the spectrum of opinions.
It seems to be an off-topic opinion fest of values, personal feelings (un-related to topic), and analogies.

You have been warned by other mods...

Stay on topic.
Stop personal insults.

Thank You.

 

[Wirko]

Thread has wandered all over the spectrum of opinions.
It seems to be an off-topic opinion fest of values, personal feelings (un-related to topic), and analogies.

You have been warned by other mods...

Stay on topic.
Stop personal insults.

Thank You.

But hey, what did you expect? Even @Mussels said "i got 2x32" and see no genuine use for two monitors outside of specific 2D workloads", he's a moderaptor and staff member, and that was a highly opinionated opinion. It's been a long thread, you can't expect everyone to stay narrowly on topic and keep themselves from expressing opinions for several days. Of insults, I've seen very few in this thread, and I wish it were the same in all other threads.
Indeed, forum members are now trying hard to identify certain groups of people that could be called "elitists", rightly or wrongly, based on budget or something else, and others may take this as an offence. But wasn't it the first post that triggered this?

 

[Jetster]

It's not a complement or helpful. And that's not an opinion

e·lit·ist
/əˈlēdəst,āˈlēdəst/

noun
plural noun: elitists

1. a person who believes that a society or system should be led by an elite.
   "critics portray him as an out-of-touch elitist"

 

[basco]

i know i will not make friends here with my saying but i find it very confusing if a mod tells me\everybody this.

If you can't support the community, why are you even here?

 

[Mussels]

You guys cant see deleted posts, it went off topic and started talking about taking morphine and meth somehow.

Since my monitor comments got brought into it somehow: that's because some people see having the full triple monitor setup as something to brag about the elite status for, despite having no actual reason for it. Even when i mentioned that certain 2D workloads (meaning an actual job) benefit i still had people who fit that criteria get offended somehow... which is exactly what this elitist thread is about.

Why it is wrong to say something is not useful or wanted by many?
a 5600x and a 5950x might as well be the same for gaming for a laaaarge amount of situations, and yet people get insulted and judged for having a 'mere' 6 core CPU
16GB is honestly enough for gaming yet why are people judging others for not getting 32GB of DDR4 4000, when the difference from 16GB of 3200 is within margin of error in most tests?


Someone has a shiny pebble and really cares about it, so you think holy crap those things have VALUE!
You go to effort and get a shiny pebble. You love your shiny pebble. You show it off to everyone.
In a deja vu moment someone comes along and sees your shiny pebble, you fluff up your feathers and strike a pose like the moment you first saw one and... they don't care and walk off.
I guess this part is all about social status, because then you MUST convince them your pebble has worth because the moment one person doesnt care, it spread until no one cares... and then you're holding a polished turd and everyones laughing at you.

So you know, aggressively sell the same marketing you fell for so you dont look like an idiot for falling for marketing. which makes you look like a bigger idiot, so you gotta sell it even harder...

 

[Sithaer]

Someone has a shiny pebble and really cares about it, so you think holy crap those things have VALUE!
You go to effort and get a shiny pebble. You love your shiny pebble. You show it off to everyone.
In a deja vu moment someone comes along and sees your shiny pebble, you fluff up your feathers and strike a pose like the moment you first saw one and... they don't care and walk off.

I think this is often the case when I get in 'trouble' with said ppl.

Cause most of the time I just don't care about the stuff they try to show off or impress with and I'm like okay thats good for you and for me that would be the end of the discussion and move on.
But nope they insist that I just don't know what I miss out and further talk about how superior their stuff is yet I still don't care cause I'm perfectly fine with what I own/fits my use case and thats when it gets out of hand/insults thrown at me and whatnot.
Its like those ppl can't get it through their skull that other ppl might have different needs/preferences and that they are good as it is.
Almost like it personally offends them or something.


As for the multi monitor setup, while I can see benefits for some ppl and use case but for me it would be a waste since I don't do anything that would require it and have no plans on ever going down that route.

 

[sepheronx]

I will tell you this. Everyone this.

No one dares to talk bad, or try to diminish my shiny pebble.

I'm also impressed how a conversation talking about trying to keep the hardware team in perfect harmony. With Apple trees and Honey bees and snow white turtle doves.

Moves to to "coke" (drugs). I'm always amazed by such diversion of topics.