HDD Extremly slow but behaving like an SSD?

[RatKing]

So I have recently been having an extreme slowdown on my OS, takes very long to boot, constantly hangs and freezes, installations take ages etc. I probably shouldn't be running an OS in an HDD in 2021 but thats besides the point because I know its slow but not this slow. Anyways, I ran some tests in HD Tuner and the results I got are pretty weird, my HDD is an Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM008.

Benchmark:

So I know the oscilations are due to me doing the benchmark while running the OS but thats not the problem, the problem is that(I think) the graph should start at the max speed and gradually go down to the min speed like a normal HDD would, this is clearly not the case even increasing at around the 1400-1500 gb mark. I am also under the impression from the research I've done that those yellow dots shouldn't be near the bottom of the graph, that is only supposed to happen on an SSD. Coincidently the blue line being kinda stable and not decreasing over time is also an SSD characteristic.

Now I know my HDD is not an SSD because its slow to the point it makes me want to punch my monitor, so wtf is up with the graph above ?

I should also mention a funny thing that happened the first time I ran the HD tuner benchmark, the graph was even weirder but I took it as a bug since it never happened again, I'm gonna leave that graph here just in case it wasn't a bug and its an indication the HDD is faulty.

http://imgur.com/a/GPqrtId

- Imgur link since file is too large

I assume you guys would also request a SMART health screenshot and a error scan screenshot so I also did those and everything appears to be normal.

Last but not least I also did a crystal Disk check

Would really appreciate any feedback because this HDD is driving me insane. Is it faulty ? Should I return it ? Does seagate accept returns on HDDs roughly 1 year and half after buying them?

 

[newtekie1]

Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM008 is a SMR drive according to spec sheet.

And that doesn't matter, because the results look nothing like what a SMR drive should look like.

the drive is in use by the OS at the time, so there is definitely a chance its writing and reading during those results

So, unless it's writing massive amounts of data sequentially all at once, SMR doesn't matter. What this looks like is just a HDD being a slow HDD and not keeping up with the random use of a system drive. This isn't caused by SMR.

Damn didn't expect so many replies.
I am definitly planning on buying a SSD but I just wanted to make sure if the HDD is working correctly or if I should send it back.
Are those benchmarks actually normal ? Because my HDD is definitly not acting normal, I know its slow but it takes like 5 minutes to boot to log in and another 1-2 minutes just to log in. Windows constantly freezes and things crash when opening them and there was one time it took like 2 hours while trying to shutdown(I think it was doing an update).
I also thought the graph was supposed to decrease overtime and not maintain a stable curve, I recently read a thread in this forum where someone seems to have a similar issue to mine

The only way to test a HDD(or really SSD too) for speed is to do it when the drive isn't being used by anything else. Boot Windows from another drive than the one you are testing. If Windows is running off of it, then your results can be totally crazy looking.

SMR is intended for long term data storage and really shouldn't be used as a day to day HDD.

There is really no reason a SMR drive can't be used day to day. It's just HDDs in general shouldn't be used as OS drive anymore. But even in situations where you are writing to the drive a SMR drive often behaves exactly like a CMR drive, most people would never even know they had an SMR drive. SMR drives have a CMR cache, just like a SLC cache in a TLC SSD.

I'm not saying don't buy a 1tb I'm just saying spend £25 and get a 120gb purely for your os

This is extremely bad advise. The current 120GB drives on the market are slower than a nearly full 1TB SSD. Also, a near full SSD only gets slower write speeds, not read speeds. So the slowdown isn't really a big deal. And if you keep the drive about 25% empty, it never really slows down.

Uhm interesting, thought this was what we did back then and that its no longer worth because big SSD aren't as expensive as before and only start slowing down at like 80% capacity but I'll consider it

Yeah, that's basically the case now. Keep it under 80% full and you won't notice write speed decreasing. And even full an SSD won't slow down reading.

However, in your situation I'd get a smallish SSD for the OS now if you can't afford the bigger SSD. Just not too small, don't get a 120GB drive, they are slow as dog shit these days. Get a 250GB drive to use as your OS drive and then just use the HDD for storage of games. Just doing that will actually really improve how that HDD handles loading games. Since the HDD won't have to handle all the background crap that Windows is trying to do, it only has to handle loading games, so they will load way faster.

 

[eidairaman1]

And that doesn't matter, because the results look nothing like what a SMR drive should look like.


So, unless it's writing massive amounts of data sequentially all at once, SMR doesn't matter. What this looks like is just a HDD being a slow HDD and not keeping up with the random use of a system drive. This isn't caused by SMR.

The only way to test a HDD(or really SSD too) for speed is to do it when the drive isn't being used by anything else. Boot Windows from another drive than the one you are testing. If Windows is running off of it, then your results can be totally crazy looking.

There is really no reason a SMR drive can't be used day to day. It's just HDDs in general shouldn't be used as OS drive anymore. But even in situations where you are writing to the drive a SMR drive often behaves exactly like a CMR drive, most people would never even know they had an SMR drive. SMR drives have a CMR cache, just like a SLC cache in a TLC SSD.

This is extremely bad advise. The current 120GB drives on the market are slower than a nearly full 1TB SSD. Also, a near full SSD only gets slower write speeds, not read speeds. So the slowdown isn't really a big deal. And if you keep the drive about 25% empty, it never really slows down.

Yeah, that's basically the case now. Keep it under 80% full and you won't notice write speed decreasing. And even full an SSD won't slow down reading.

However, in your situation I'd get a smallish SSD for the OS now if you can't afford the bigger SSD. Just not too small, don't get a 120GB drive, they are slow as dog shit these days. Get a 250GB drive to use as your OS drive and then just use the HDD for storage of games. Just doing that will actually really improve how that HDD handles loading games. Since the HDD won't have to handle all the background crap that Windows is trying to do, it only has to handle loading games, so they will load way faster.

Yup no pagefile swapping

 

[ThaiTaffy]

This is extremely bad advise. The current 120GB drives on the market are slower than a nearly full 1TB SSD. Also, a near full SSD only gets slower write speeds, not read speeds. So the slowdown isn't really a big deal. And if you keep the drive about 25% empty, it never really slows down

Not sure what SSD's your talking about but I'm talking SATA here the speeds between a 120gb and a 1tb are like 10mbps

There is really no reason a SMR drive can't be used day to day. It's just HDDs in general shouldn't be used as OS drive anymore. But even in situations where you are writing to the drive a SMR drive often behaves exactly like a CMR drive, most people would never even know they had an SMR drive. SMR drives have a CMR cache, just like a SLC cache in a TLC SSD

So installing a game at 10mbps isn't slow as dogshit?

Or writing any large file for that matter

3hours to install most modern games sounds like a slow ass HDD to me.

 

[Shrek]

As a SSD fills up it gets slower

An opportunity to learn! why does it slow up? is the controller busy trying to figure out what goes in what slot that remains?

 

[eidairaman1]

An opportunity to learn! why does it slow up? Is the controller busy trying to figure out what goes in what slot that remains?

More data to look through, just like a HDD

 

[ThaiTaffy]

An opportunity to learn! why does it slow up? is the controller busy trying to figure out what goes in what slot that remains?

SSD save data largely in partially filled blocks when the capacity is almost full the ssd then needs to not only try to write data but also reorganize those blocks from partially full to full.

 

[Shrek]

Ah, I didn't know it was moving stuff around (which causes wear); I am used to hard drives that don't (and so get fragmented).

Or at least that is how I understand it; don't forget I asked this question so as to learn.

More data to look through, just like a HDD

But would that not suggest that larger drives are slower, which I believe is not the case.

I think it is just a matter of words, and I may have misinterpreted those words.

 

[eidairaman1]

Ah, I didn't know it was moving stuff around; I am used to hard drives that don't (and so get fragmented).

Or at least that is how I understand it; don't forget I asked this question so as to learn.



But would that not suggest that larger drives are slower, which I believe is not the case.

They compensate with cache and nvme design

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Ah, I didn't know it was moving stuff around; I am used to hard drives that don't (and so get fragmented).

Or at least that is how I understand it; don't forget I asked this question so as to learn.



But would that not suggest that larger drives are slower, which I believe is not the case.

I think it is just a matter of words, and I have misinterpreted those words.

No it doesn't matter what size the drive is they all only organize the space that they need

 

[Shrek]

They compensate with cache

Ah yes, now I recall that cheap SSDs don't have cache.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Ah yes, now I recall that cheap SSDs don't have cache.

If you want to learn about it in more detail here you go. https://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/

 

[Shrek]

The other question I have is what do SSDs do when all the spare sectors are used up? Anyone ever seen an error message to this effect?

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

3hours to install most modern games sounds like a slow ass HDD to me.

Or a faulty SSD, of course, when you get bit by a bad one or got a cheapo SSD.

 

[eidairaman1]

The other question I have is what do SSDs do when all the spare sectors are used up? Anyone ever seen an error message to this effect?

Windows Warns when the drive is near max capacity and cannot defrag, or has a problem with page file. It is why I manually set the page file(swap space) to 4096MB Minimum and Max, so it has no rubber banding.

 

[Shrek]

If you want to learn about it in more detail here you go. https://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/

Great article, but I am not sure I completely understand TRIM; if one has little space remaining one can't really keep on using it, as that would wear it out, so one has to keep shuffling space around... and I may have just explained to myself why things slow down when little space remains. I imagine one trick is to bring the spare sectors (hidden overprovisioning) into play to ameliorate the problem.

Now it all makes a lot more sense.

And so a further question (will it ever stop); if one puts the OS on an SSD and also has a hard drive; how does one steer the paging to happen on the hard drive and not the SSD?

 

[eidairaman1]

Great article, but I am not sure I completely understand TRIM; if one has little space remaining one can't really keep on using it, as that would wear it out, so one has to keep shuffling space around... and I may have just explained to myself why things slow down when little space remains. I imagine one trick is to bring the spare sectors (hidden overprovisioning) into play to ameliorate the problem.

Now it all makes a lot more sense.

Trim keeps the drive optimized and clean, it is why there is no file fragmentation like on a HDD that needs defragging from time to time, but if there is no room it cant trim either.

Rule of thumb, leave a drive 10-15% empty to avoid trouble

 

[ThaiTaffy]

So easiest way to describe trim is with word processing terms when a file has been copied to fill another block rather than being cut its highlighted then when the ssd is in an idle state the highlighted file is deleted.

 

[Shrek]

Windows Warns when the drive is near max capacity and cannot defrag, or has a problem with page file. It is why I manually set the page file(swap space) to 4096MB Minimum and Max, so it has no rubber banding.

What happens if a program needs more RAM space that you have allowed? the memory request will be denied.

 

[RatKing]

And that doesn't matter, because the results look nothing like what a SMR drive should look like.


So, unless it's writing massive amounts of data sequentially all at once, SMR doesn't matter. What this looks like is just a HDD being a slow HDD and not keeping up with the random use of a system drive. This isn't caused by SMR.

The only way to test a HDD(or really SSD too) for speed is to do it when the drive isn't being used by anything else. Boot Windows from another drive than the one you are testing. If Windows is running off of it, then your results can be totally crazy looking.

There is really no reason a SMR drive can't be used day to day. It's just HDDs in general shouldn't be used as OS drive anymore. But even in situations where you are writing to the drive a SMR drive often behaves exactly like a CMR drive, most people would never even know they had an SMR drive. SMR drives have a CMR cache, just like a SLC cache in a TLC SSD.

This is extremely bad advise. The current 120GB drives on the market are slower than a nearly full 1TB SSD. Also, a near full SSD only gets slower write speeds, not read speeds. So the slowdown isn't really a big deal. And if you keep the drive about 25% empty, it never really slows down.

Yeah, that's basically the case now. Keep it under 80% full and you won't notice write speed decreasing. And even full an SSD won't slow down reading.

However, in your situation I'd get a smallish SSD for the OS now if you can't afford the bigger SSD. Just not too small, don't get a 120GB drive, they are slow as dog shit these days. Get a 250GB drive to use as your OS drive and then just use the HDD for storage of games. Just doing that will actually really improve how that HDD handles loading games. Since the HDD won't have to handle all the background crap that Windows is trying to do, it only has to handle loading games, so they will load way faster.

Do you have any recommendation for an SSD? I have been looking at the "new" gen 4 ones but also read the speed difference is not really noticeable past the normal sata ssd and you only notice it if you're constantly moving large files. Also read this might change in the near future due to direct storage, so are they worth buying now with the price difference or should I just go for a Sata or gen 3 one ?I'm mostly gonna be using it to gaming , programming and running virtual machines.

 

[Shrek]

Rule of thumb, leave a drive 10-15% empty to avoid trouble

Above and beyond the hidden 7%?
Why Solid-State Drives Slow Down As You Fill Them Up (howtogeek.com)

I'm still trying to understand if one can have quantum tunneling (what a SSD uses) without wear.

 

[RatKing]

Samsung Pro SSDs or Crucial MX are what I suggest.


Write lifes are still limited on SSDs, I suggest the SSD for OS and less critical items and HDD for other stuff but a backup is always a must

Yeah I'm thinking about the Crucial mx500 but its a bit expensive considering there are gen 3 nvme for about the same price

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Do you have any recommendation for an SSD? I have been looking at the "new" gen 4 ones but also read the speed difference is not really noticeable past the normal sata ssd and you only notice it if you're constantly moving large files. Also read this might change in the near future due to direct storage, so are they worth buying now with the price difference or should I just go for a Sata or gen 3 one ?I'm mostly gonna be using it to gaming , programming and running virtual machine.

Personally I'd go with something like a 120gb crucial mx500 for your os I can buy them here for less than $20 and work great as a boot drive then it's totally up to you as far as storage I'm pretty much set on buying a WD black sn750 1tb as my next storage drive which is just under $80.

 

[eidairaman1]

What happens if a program needs more RAM space that you have allowed? the memory request will be denied.

I have 16GB, ive yet to max it out. Swap space has been around since I believe Windows 3.1 it was used to compensate for the small expensive ram. Back then ram was not cheap like how gpus are today.

Back then if Ram was saturated with data it would refer to swap space/paging which is very slow. So data would be exchanged between ram and the swap on the hdd.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

@RatKing if you can fill in your system specs by clicking your avatar we can be sure any suggestions we make are compatible.

 

[Shrek]

I have 16GB, ive yet to max it out. Swap space has been around since I believe Windows 3.1 it was used to compensate for the small expensive ram. Back then ram was not cheap like how gpus are today.

I use Mathematica and there RAM requirements can go crazy, depending on the problem one is working on.