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HDMI Forum Rejects AMD's HDMI 2.1 Open-Source Driver Proposal, No 4K@120 Hz or 5K@240 Hz on Linux

TechLurker said:
I mean, that sort of happened in the past, and the result was either "buy an adapter" or "use included adapter". Heck, for awhile, some 1st and 2nd generation HDMI monitors came with a DVI or VGA to HDMI adapter while entirely using HDMI ports, and some 2nd and 3rd generation HDMI TVs eventually dropped RCA/S-Video ports and buyers had to either buy an adapter with the TV for 30-50 bucks, or spend time shopping around for similar TVs that still could use analog.

So companies can drag consumers forward kicking and screaming the whole way. It's just that right now there isn't sufficient incentive to do so.
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If I were to predict a change, it would be to usb-c which uses displayport the first tv's supporting it are hitting the market, at some point tv's will include it if only to easily connect to a laptop. At that point other tv oriented devices sich as console may also decide to go down that road. This gains traction and at some point makes hdmi obsolete.

Switch 2 I am sure will work regularly over usb-c for example. As do pc handhelds.
 
qlum said:
If I were to predict a change, it would be to usb-c which uses displayport the first tv's supporting it are hitting the market, at some point tv's will include it if only to easily connect to a laptop. At that point other tv oriented devices sich as console may also decide to go down that road. This gains traction and at some point makes hdmi obsolete.
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That would be a good shout!

Single cable from PC to TV that can power/charge it while being able to us it to send screens would be a good thing for the consumer. No more looking for chargers + Display cables etc.
 
Welp. Time to ban HDMI from ever being used in my household. Good riddance. From now forward every purchase I make will be connected with a different connector.
 
MarsM4N said:
"...implementation is not possible without violating HDMI Forum requirements." What requirements? :confused: Really lacking context. Is this of technical or political nature? Maybe the HDMI copyright protection doesn't work like it should on Linux or their members are in the pocket of Microsoft. Let's see if we get some more info down the road.
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Impossible to tell, since the specs are not available to the public. But since this is about high-res and refresh, we can only guess it has something to do with signalling or maybe some compression scheme. Lame anyway.

Funny thing is, AMD is a member on the forum, they helped build those specs and requirements.
 
There was a brief period where some TVs had DVI on them, and those were probably CRTs or early LCDs, but otherwise HDMI has been The Standard since the move from analog connections. Heck, HDMI was first designed in 2002. It's old enough to drink now.
 
qlum said:
If I were to predict a change, it would be to usb-c which uses displayport the first tv's supporting it are hitting the market, at some point tv's will include it if only to easily connect to a laptop. At that point other tv oriented devices sich as console may also decide to go down that road. This gains traction and at some point makes hdmi obsolete.
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Realistically, this is the most likely endpoint; esp. with Intel having opened up Thunderbolt to USB and USB-C becoming the standard. Between the two, the capability to sustain high-bandwidth transmissions AND power would make USB quite valuable as a dual-purpose connection. Moreso given that this will likely be driven with Europe's push for standardized connectors, whether it's USB-C or some future USB derivative (USB-D?).

So even if the US or China or Japan isn't taking the lead, Europe is with their desire to reduce e-waste on some level, and by default it'll end up becoming DP-through-USB. And since everyone's already used to USB-C (and all the stupid 0.5 variations with and w/o TB capability), the change won't really affect many. At worst, just getting a DP to USB-C adapter.
 
For now, AMD continues pushing open-source as the best approach, while the HDMI Forum refuses to budge on compliance demands. Both sides seem firmly entrenched, leaving consumers caught in the middle.
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This is a poorly worded conclusions, consumers are not in the middle at all, they're firmly on the side of AMD and demand an open solution for HDMI 2.1 compatibility in Linux.

MarsM4N said:
"...implementation is not possible without violating HDMI Forum requirements." What requirements
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Best guess would be because of money, having an open source implementation would allow or at least facilitate the inclusion of HDMI 2.1 capable ports on devices without paying the corresponding royaltees and licensing fees to HDMI Forum. It's a standard that needs to die, DisplayPort today is better in every way.

Panther_Seraphin said:
"Sorry your brand new $2000 AV reciever? Yeah dump it and get this new one in 6 months cause it supports the "new" connector standard.....Does nothing new.....just has the "new" connector"
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That already happens today because of HDCP

bug said:
we can only guess it has something to do with signalling or maybe some compression scheme
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HDMI is using the DSC compression scheme from Vesa, and we know enough about their signalling to know it sucks and it's not worth copying. Only reason that could make sense is money.
 
Noyand said:
Tbh, I don't quite understand why the HDMI standard gained so much traction over display port ? Was there something that HDMI solved in the past that Display port couldn't do ?
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Yes. HDMI-ARC is the key here. ARC allows to connect a Sound System, gaming console, any multimedia device and used with the TV and TV remote at the same time. I have an 5.1 surround system on HDMI, which if I wouldn't connect it to the ARC port I would not be able to use TV remote to control the sound
 
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Voodoo Rufus said:
Just another example of why HDMI is for the TV realm and Displayport is the real PC interface.

I do use HDMI on the PC for several applications, but it's mainly multi-PC setups where the monitors just only have on DP in and one or two HDMI ins. Alternative is to use DP switches.
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It's only a sad thing that some of the best monitors for use with your gaming PC are exclusively HDMI (LG OLEDs)
 
Noyand said:
Tbh, I don't quite understand why the HDMI standard gained so much traction over display port ? Was there something that HDMI solved in the past that Display port couldn't do ?
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Most likely money, thinking SONY have some thing to do with it copyright were DP don't have HDCP crap. Sadly Receivers are behind too.
 
What a dick move by HDMI forum. Can we have our GPUs without that useless port in the future AMD? Make it a buying choice for TV guys, and leaving the rest of us free of that crap? There's probably some subconscious reason that made me pissed of each time I see 2x DP and 2x HDMI combo on a GPU. :laugh: Three DP ports or GTFO.
 
Redwoodz said:
Welp. Time to ban HDMI from ever being used in my household. Good riddance. From now forward every purchase I make will be connected with a different connector.
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Time to dust off the SCART cables... oh wait.
 
We already knew DisplayPort was better, this just seals the deal. If only the industry would move to DP And abandon HDMI.
 
Ferrum Master said:
Basically f*ck HDMI. Even PS5 uses a DP to HDMI transcoder IC to bypass this nonsense.

The only mystery why consumer TV makers are so turn on by HDMI.
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HDCP.

TV makers are trying to appease their lifeblood - the streaming content providers that insist on content protection in order to validate their app for your Smart TV.

It's likely the reason why the HDMI Forum rejected AMD's Open-source driver proposal, as that's the first step to blowing HDCP wide open and making piracy even easier than it already is.
 
Chrispy_ said:
as that's the first step to blowing HDCP wide open and making piracy even easier than it already is.
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HDCP will be useless forever as long it has two hardware points and splitters will exist forever as long any receiver device exists and thus making able to de/encode the stream. It is flawed logic in the core that HDCP solves anything. You can look in torrent sites yourself. Is there lack of anything? Does it solve anything? No, it ain't HDCP. It is only about royalties and dollars paid about each device having this port.
 
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Ferrum Master said:
HDCP will be useless forever as long it has two hardware points and splitters will exist forever as long any receiver device exists and thus making able to encode the stream. It is flawed logic in the core that HDCP solves anything. You can look in torrent sites yourself. Is there lack of anything? Does it solve anything? No, it ain't HDCP. It is only about royalties and dollars paid about each device having this port.
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It did "solve" one problem back when HDMI 1.4 could not support higher resolutions streaming, because the HDCP overhead ran you over the available bandwidth.

Like you said, it's about royalties. And when you sell billions of devices, that's about A LOT of royalties.
 
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So, I am all for DP but I have always found the physical plug for HDMI easier to use. And I use it by default on everything.
 
capdauntless said:
So, I am all for DP but I have always found the physical plug for HDMI easier to use. And I use it by default on everything.
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I find the connectors so similar, I always have to look when connecting either to a laptop. To me DP seems a bit better since it latches into place, but that's a minute difference.
 
Ferrum Master said:
HDCP will be useless forever as long it has two hardware points and splitters will exist forever as long any receiver device exists and thus making able to de/encode the stream. It is flawed logic in the core that HDCP solves anything. You can look in torrent sites yourself. Is there lack of anything? Does it solve anything? No, it ain't HDCP. It is only about royalties and dollars paid about each device having this port.
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Oh I'm not here to defend HDCP. It's utterly useless and it only serves as an obstacle to unfairly trip up people who aren't pirating or interested in viewing pirated content.

If you want to watch pirated content, HDCP isn't even part of the discussion because it's irrelevant and HDMI splitters are just one of so many completely trivial ways to circumvent it. It is however, enough of a reason to interfere with AMD's open-source driver proposal because the HDMI Forum needs to prove that it's trying - no matter how useless its efforts are - just to appease the MPAA, BBFC and other media consortiums who operate the global movie and film production cartel.
 
AMD is legally forbidden to use HDMI 2.1 drivers that *AMD* developed to support HDMI 2.1 features under Linux? Have I misunderstood something? Else it would mean EVERY hardware device manufacturer could legally forbid someone writing driver support for Linux, which is ridiculous. AMD isn't asking for permission to open-source someone else's proprietary code, so I don't know why the HDMI forum has got its knickers in a twist over this.
 
Fierce Guppy said:
AMD is legally forbidden to use HDMI 2.1 drivers that *AMD* developed to support HDMI 2.1 features under Linux? Have I misunderstood something? Else it would mean EVERY hardware device manufacturer could legally forbid someone writing driver support for Linux, which is ridiculous. AMD isn't asking for permission to open-source someone else's proprietary code, so I don't know why the HDMI forum has got its knickers in a twist over this.
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Those HDMI hardware is closed source. AMD Drivers are open source. So they would expose that closed hardware. That's why it is forbidden. ;)

I'm happy that i have since years one philosophy. HDMI is entertainment. My PC's are professional. So they use DP. I only and explicitly use DP to connect my Monitors to the GPU. I also don't connect my TV to my PC. I also don't connect my receuver to the PC. For sound I have a DAC/KHV (Headphone Amp) connected via USB/Optical.
 
Fierce Guppy said:
AMD is legally forbidden to use HDMI 2.1 drivers that *AMD* developed to support HDMI 2.1 features under Linux? Have I misunderstood something? Else it would mean EVERY hardware device manufacturer could legally forbid someone writing driver support for Linux, which is ridiculous. AMD isn't asking for permission to open-source someone else's proprietary code, so I don't know why the HDMI forum has got its knickers in a twist over this.
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That is correct, it's a matter of patent and rights holders' interests coming into conflict with the nature of free and open source software. The HDMI Forum gets its knickers in a twist because it's an open-source implementation of something that they own the patents to, and AMD licenses from them. They pay a few bucks to the HDMI Forum for every Radeon GPU made so they can have the HDMI port at all.
 
Dr. Dro said:
That is correct, it's a matter of patent and rights holders' interests coming into conflict with the nature of free and open source software. The HDMI Forum gets its knickers in a twist because it's an open-source implementation of something that they own the patents to, and AMD licenses from them. They pay a few bucks to the HDMI Forum for every Radeon GPU made so they can have the HDMI port at all.S
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Okay, so it doesn't sound like any patent is being infringed. But regardless, the HDMI Forum is saying to AMD 'if you provide open-source HDMI 2.1 drivers then we will revoke your license to implement HDMI hardware on your cards.' That's very unfortunate. How would allowing AMD to release open-source drivers negatively impact the HDMI Forum's revenue?
 
Fierce Guppy said:
Okay, so it doesn't sound like any patent is being infringed. But regardless, the HDMI Forum is saying to AMD 'if you provide open-source HDMI 2.1 drivers then we will revoke your license to implement HDMI hardware on your cards.' That's very unfortunate. How would allowing AMD to release open-source drivers negatively impact the HDMI Forum's revenue?
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This is about Linux device drivers not windows ones. I don't think that there is nobody out there changing the GPU to NVidia and their closed sh*t drivers. So there might be a change of the revenues by HDMi cables. Hopefully in future there will be 3 DP Ports in general. If having 2 Monitors connected by DP would want to have a third port in spare.
 
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