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Help me calculate the UPS power

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WilliamParks

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Hi! I am planning to start a gaming center in Canada. I want to know how much power will my ups need for a backup of 3-5 hours. I will be getting a commericial ups from Staticon Ltd. I want the following to work on the UPS

7 x Computers + 1 Server
1 Ton AC x 1
Led Bulbs x 4
Modem + Switch


How much power will my ups need to give a backup of 3-5 hours? Can someone help?
 
Welcome to TPU!

Sounds like you need a commercial emergency generator, not a ton of batteries. What you want to do is in contravention to what a UPS is for in a power outage. It is meant to allow you a safe and orderly shutdown, not game for hours and power AC.

I did check out the company, and indeed they have those massive industrial UPS units, but I still think they are not designed for all the workers to just keep working. I think their purpose is the same as a home one: To regulate and condition the power delivery, and to provide emergency power long enough to safely shut down computers and servers, or for emergency power generators to kick in.

Maybe @Bill_Bright can shed some light on this.
 
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3-5 hours = gas/diesel generator

We'd need the specs to guesstimate the computers and server. LED bulbs should say right on them how many watts they use. The brick powering modem and switch will say how much it draws (should be next to nothing). The AC should have a rated wattage too.
 
There are rackmount UPS' that can satisfy most of those requirements however, if the AC uses split-phase, you're options become limited rather quickly. It's not a tall order to run the 6 computers and 1 servers for that long. At work we have 4 rackmount UPS' that can keep 7 servers up for 2.5 hours when balanced properly but, our 28k BTU AC dies in the interim. Usually the UPS power runs out before the server room warms up too much as well but, I guess that depends on ambient temperature and the size of the room as well as how much load the servers have on them.
 
Power outage/cut need ups till your back up standby generator kicks in

No back up standby generator then your ups should be used to cover safe shut downs till mains suppy returns
UPS should not be used in the way you think it can or want it to
 
Aquinus said:
There are rackmount UPS' that can satisfy most of those requirements however, if the AC uses split-phase, you're options become limited rather quickly. It's not a tall order to run the 6 computers and 1 servers for that long. At work we have 4 rackmount UPS' that can keep 7 servers up for 2.5 hours when balanced properly but, our 28k BTU AC dies in the interim. Usually the UPS power runs out before the server room warms up too much as well but, I guess that depends on ambient temperature and the size of the room.
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Most servers use a lot less power than a gaming pc though, correct? And you're talking a lot less time than he is with less power. Personally I think he's misunderstanding the concept.
 
rtwjunkie said:
Most servers use a lot less power than a gaming pc though, correct?
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Depends on the hardware. Our newer Xeons are much lighter on the power, the older ones suck a lot of power down even at idle. I could see any of the servers eating as much as my PC under load with the exception of some of the lower power ones but, full load isn't realistic in our situation. Our only 4U box probably would have no problem drawing as much as a gaming PC whereas our newer 2Us probably consume half as much (95w TDP per CPU versus 140w TDP on the 4U, both have dual CPUs installed.)

Either way, UPS' should only be considered a stop gap measure. I would argue that any longer than 2 hours is the turning point for considering a generator because the cost of UPS' will probably exceed the cost of a generator for less benefit.
 
WilliamParks said:
Hi! I am planning to start a gaming center in Canada.
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Sad to say but This is a commercial Venture that seems to be doomed to failure as the OP does not understand the Back up Power systems he will need to have in place

You Need Some form of Back up or stand by power in the form of switch on by Demand ( Petrol/diesel generator capacity ) to Support some form Surge protection and UPS.

Aquinus said:
UPS' should only be considered a stop gap measure. I would argue that any longer than 2 hours is the turning point for considering a generator because the cost of UPS' will probably exceed the cost of a generator for less benefit.
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in your situation if you don't have back up generators then several power outages close together will deplete your UPS and your venture is powerless UPS take time( hours ) to recharge their Battery s while a gen can be refueled in minutes
 
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What he's asking can be done. But it will be much more economical to get a diesel generator than a full fledged battery solution.

Either way, we need to know the actual peak wattage to advise. Then it's simply some math from there.
 
dorsetknob said:
in your situation if you don't have back up generators then several power outages close together will deplete your UPS and your venture is powerless UPS take time( hours ) to recharge their Battery s while a gen can be refueled in minutes
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We're not in a position where we can have a generator wired in, our servers are also not mission critical. Everything important is running on Google Compute Engine, it's cheaper to scale up cloud servers than investing in hardware and infrastructure.
 
Aquinus said:
We're not in a position where we can have a generator wired in, our servers are also not mission critical. Everything important is running on Google Compute Engine, it's cheaper to scale up cloud servers than investing in hardware and infrastructure.
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was not referring to your position @Aquinus
but using your quote to refer to the OP as a point

For a Gaming venture on site power is a must either supplied by the local utility company or in case of their failure by Back up/stand by generators
"" Gameing machines" for a gaming commercial venture strike me as quote "mission critical"
this is a case where that marvelous cloud thing cannot cope
no power to your machine then the cloud is useless :)
 
dorsetknob said:
was not referring to your position @Aquinus
but using your quote to refer to the OP as a point

For a Gaming venture on site power is a must either supplied by the local utility company or in case of their failure by Back up/stand by generators
this is a case where that marvelous cloud thing cannot cope
no power to your machine then the cloud is useless :)
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Oh, I know. I'm just making it clear that different needs result in different solutions. All our employees can work while being mobile. When power goes out in the office for too long everyone works from home, it's why everyone has a laptop. I personally only go into the office 3 days out of the week, I work from home the other two.
 
You aren't going to run an A/C off a UPS. The kind of motors that are in the compressor don't like the modified sine wave that comes out of the inverter. It'll end up overheating and burning out.

I don't know what your setup will be but for that kind of load for that kind of time, you just aren't going to find a UPS - or even a stack of UPS's - that will suit your needs. Even the largest UPS with extra batteries and a fraction of its rated load will only run for about 2 hours. What you will need to do is get a couple large power inverters - the kind they install in yachts and RV's (Xantrex SW3000 comes to mind), which have built-in chargers and automatic transfer switches - and a few banks of gel-cell/AGM batteries. That'll run you probably $9,000 and you still can't use the A/C.

The much more sensible alternative is to install a 8kW hardwired natural gas/diesel generator (DO NOT use gasoline, it goes stale quickly and can varnish up the carburetor) with an automatic transfer switch, and put a small UPS on each machine just to carry the system from the time the power goes out to the time the generator kicks in.
 
taz420nj said:
(DO NOT use gasoline, it goes stale quickly and can varnish up the carburetor)
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he is in Canada where in winter the temp will plunge way below the point where diesel turns to wax or solid
petrol stays liquid and usable way after diesel turns solid
as for stale petrol and varnishing there is this thing called "MAINTENANCE "
 
dorsetknob said:
he is in Canada where in winter the temp will plunge way below the point where diesel turns to wax or solid
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He said nothing about where in Canada but, you're right, it's a consideration. There are plenty of places in Canada where that's not the case though. Vancouver is a great example.
 
dorsetknob said:
he is in Canada where in winter the temp will plunge way below the point where diesel turns to wax or solid
petrol stays liquid and usable way after diesel turns solid
as for stale petrol and varnishing there is this thing called "MAINTENANCE "
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Maintenance.. LOL! Most people can't even remember to change the batteries in their smoke alarms twice a year..

And the trucking and railroad industries must grind to a halt during winter if there isn't a winterized diesel or blend for the temp range up there..... ;)
 
The point of this thread is in my opinion worst case possible power outage and keeping his venture running
bearing in mind where he is ( Canada and winter ) i would not recommend a Diesel generator

Trucks usualy have tank heater for their winterised vehicles and yes trucks still grind to a halt with frozen Diesel
 
All I'm saying is that diesel fuel sold for use in cold climates is treated not to gel in the temperature range where it is sold.

And even if it's not, why couldn't one put a thermostatically controlled heater in the generator's diesel tank?
 
taz420nj said:
You aren't going to run an A/C off a UPS. The kind of motors that are in the compressor don't like the modified sine wave that comes out of the inverter. It'll end up overheating and burning out.
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It's almost certain at the wattage he's talking he'll be dealing with true sine wave generating pro UPS units.

And I doubt he's that deep in Canada. Otherwise why use an AC? Mount a climate controlled window fan, lol!
 
It is possible to use lead acid batteries like in a car batteries linked together connected to a large enough inverter. It is the same way how Solar Panels are build into houses that I learned, minus the solar panels since we are just looking for backup power.

The crucial thing we need to know is how much power or amps would your computers draw out? I am going to guesstimate that it is would take 3000w/hr? It is a very conservative estimate. I have excluded the Aircon. That is a huge power guzzler in itself. So for 5 hours you need a system than can have enough energy to supply 15 000w capacity for the battery if you go that route. Also there is inverter efficiency to be taken account of. So you need more batteries again. Assuming that you are buying this lead acid battery here. Assuming inverter efficiency is at 80%. A 3000w inverter assuming you can get one that huge.

Battery capacity = 660W
Power for batteries needed after inverter inefficiency = 15 000w X 100/80 % = 18 750W

Batteries required = 18 750 / 660 = 29 batteries approximately

The cost for a battery solution would maybe in the $8k range in total if you to do the construction too. Most possibly even more. You'll need a wiring plan for the place. You can do this on your own my I recommend discussing your ideas with a licensed Electrician as we are dealing with high voltages here and expensive equipment. I still have not considered the source for charging yet. i would assume you charge from the ac wall. I have not included a rectifier yet in the cost to charge the batteries from ac power.
A simple diagram below.

CIRCUIT.png
 
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I actually think the OP does need AC. Many parts of northern North America get incredibly hot, and frequently humid for short periods of time, despite the widespread belief evident here that it's a winter wonderland 12 months a year.

I'm inclined to believe the OP is setting this up in a type of building that had NO airflow if the power goes out so, because of the air conditioning requirement mostly I feel his battery only idea is doomed.
 
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rtwjunkie said:
I actually think the OP does need AC. Many parts of northern North America get incredibly hot, and frequently humid for short periods of time, despite the widespread belief evident here that it's a winter wonderland 12 months a year.

I'm inclined to believe the OP is setting this up in a type of building that had NO airflow if the power goes out so, because of the air conditioning requirement mostly I feel his battery only idea is doomed.
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I agree with this. Airconditioning is way to power hungry!. It would at least be 3 times more than just his pc alone unless he his willing to make do with just regular fans.
 
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