Help me Obi-Wan - Acer Nitro 7 Issues

[ian315]

You're my only hope!

Been trying to solve the age old problem of laptop heating issues. I have an Acer Nitro 7, which has the unfortunate tendency of running pretty hot. Since I brought the machine I've tried various things, but call it a new years resolution but in 2023 I want to get this sorted once and for all.

So far I've undervolted the GPU, using MSI Afterburner with good success. Performance has improved and the GPU now doesn't normally exceed 70 degrees (centigrade as I'm a Brit).

The issue remains with the CPU. I've repasted, and cleaned the fans, but to no avail as I'm still regularly hitting 90 degrees plus.

I've been using throttlestop for a while, but I'm definitely not an expert, so what I wanted to do was show you my settings currently and then post my log and hopefully together we can maybe find a solution, or a setting I don't know of, which can help.

Failing all this I think I'm going back to a desktop!

ThrottleStop Settings:

Speed Shift EPP - 0
BD PROCHOT - unticked
C1E - ticked
log file - ticked

FIVR:
Turbo Ratio Limits - left at default
CPU Core - offset voltage -135.7
CPU Cache - offset voltage -135.7
ICCMax - at default value of 128

Thermal velocity boost, V-Max Stress and Ring Down Bin all selected (as per default)

TPL:
power limit controls disabled currently
no other areas ticked


It may be the case that there's nothing I can do, and this is just par for the course with this laptop and chipset, but any help will be massively appreciated guys.

Laptop Specs:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz, 2592 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB
Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti

 

[unclewebb]

Can you post a screenshot of the main window and especially the FIVR and TPL windows? That makes it easier for me to spot a problem.

The log file is showing lots of PL2 power limit throttling when power consumption is only around 15 watts. In the TPL window make sure the MMIO Lock box is checked and clear the Disable Controls check box. Run another log file after you do that.

The 9750H has a 45W TDP power rating so I am not sure why your Acer laptop is throttling at only 15W or less. I am not sure if this problem can be fixed by using ThrottleStop. The TPL window might show me something that is not set quite right.

I'm still regularly hitting 90 degrees plus

I think that is a normal operating temperature for an Acer Nitro laptop with a 9750H. Many different laptop models with the 9750H run hot.

 

[ian315]

sure no problem.

I've been trying two different settings, so I've broken them down as Log1 (which are the settings I put in the first message) and Log2 which is a toned down CPU version.

So Log 1:

Log 2:

Final is Log1 Settings with the changes to the TPL requested:

thanks in advance for your help

 

[unclewebb]

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2023-01-07  04:44:37  33.73   98.5  100.0       0   89     300    45   1.1494   56.2   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:38  33.73   98.5  100.0       0   89     300    46   1.0881   56.2   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:39  33.60   98.5  100.0       0   89     300    46   1.0938   56.2   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:40  33.51   98.5  100.0       0   90     300    46   1.1505   56.2   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:41  33.45   98.6  100.0       0   82     300    46   1.1543   56.2   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:42  31.17   98.9  100.0       0   78     300    47   0.9299   45.4   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:43  31.14   98.8  100.0       0   79     300    47   0.9476   45.0   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:44  31.16   98.8  100.0       0   78     300    47   0.9037   45.0   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:45  31.14   98.8  100.0       0   78     300    47   0.8984   45.0   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:46  31.18   98.8  100.0       0   78     300    47   0.9506   44.9   PL2
2023-01-07  04:44:47  31.15   98.8  100.0       0   80     300    47   0.8877   45.0   PL2

That log file was copied from Log 1 New TPL with the new ThrottleStop settings. It initially shows PL2 throttling right at 56.2W and then this instantly changes to PL2 throttling at 45W. The 9750H has a 45W TDP rating and 56.2W is exactly 25% higher. Intel used to recommend to manufacturers to set PL1 equal to the TDP and then set PL2 25% higher so those power limits make some sense.

The MSR PL1 50W limit and the MSR PL2 80W limit that you have requested in ThrottleStop are being ignored. It seems like your laptop is using an embedded controller (EC) to send power limits to the CPU. This is typical of many Acer laptops. The MSR, MMIO and EC power limits are all compared and then the CPU uses the lowest power limit that is requested. There is nothing you can do about this type of throttling.

Intel gave the 9750H a 45W TDP limit so there is nothing too wrong with Acer enforcing this limit. As an enthusiast, I disagree, but I can understand Acer's decision to do this to a laptop. During your full load testing, this 45W limit is costing you almost 900 MHz of performance.

Did you try playing any games with ThrottleStop setup like this? Run a log file while gaming with these settings. 45W is reasonable but you need to check to see if the EC power limits get more severe and drop to 15W. Some laptops enforce a stricter CPU power limit when the Nvidia GPU becomes more active. It would be nice if laptop manufacturers were forced to come clean with consumers and tell them what they should really expect. It is not fair to sell high performance components that cannot actually be used at their rated speeds.

 

[ian315]

Firstly thank you for your help so far it’s been extremely useful.

tonight I’ll download a more CPu heavy game, than football manager which is my normal vice , and then post a log as requested

Random question but are there any laptop manufacturers who are better than the rest in terms of cooling? This is my first gaming laptop, back in the day I’ve always built pc’s so ignored the laptop field. But boy this thing gets hot, especially if you’re using the keyboard

 

[unclewebb]

It is really hit or miss. All manufacturers at times have produced laptops that are junk. Too many gaming laptops either run at sky high temperatures or they are engineered to throttle like crazy. Either way they can be unusable for gaming. Calling these things gaming laptops is kind of a joke.

Next time you think about buying a gaming laptop, do lots of Google research first. Many laptop reviews gloss over any problems. It is better to talk with actual owners for an honest review. Some laptop review sites are afraid to say anything too negative because it can limit their ability to get laptops in the future from a manufacturer for testing purposes.

I mostly use a desktop computer now so I cannot help you with what recent laptop models are good or bad. I would only buy one from a reputable company that offers a full money back guarantee if you are not 100% satisfied. If you take a laptop home and it is a piece of crap, you should be able to take it back for a full refund without it being a big hassle. Some companies try to string customers along for a month with promises of BIOS updates that never happen or they release updates that do not fix the problem. If they can play this game long enough, they will not have to accept your laptop return. It is a sad and screwed up industry.

 

[ian315]

So attached are two log files.

The TPL 1 settings log is the original settings, so no lowering of the CPU down from 45 etc. and the TPL settings are as per the picture below:

as you can see from the log file temps are slightly higher, as is 'performance' although in game I had a much less smoother experience with these settings.

Log 2 is the reduced wattage and performance set: so as per the pictures below:

ironically on Batman Arkham Origins I found this set gave the better performance, even though in my rookie opinion it shouldn't because the cores are tuned down.

question regarding CPU Cache and Core, Do these values need to be the same number?

 

[unclewebb]

The TPL 1 settings log shows lots of TEMP messages which indicates thermal throttling. That is why game play is not smooth.

When you use your reduced power limits, the CPU runs at a steady pace without overheating and throttling. In this situation, slow and steady is best for game play.

Thermal throttling is happening when CPU power consumption is only 21W. The 9750H CPU has a 45W TDP rating. If you have to reduce power consumption to less than half, it is time to do some work on the cooling system. Something is not right. The cooling system is overwhelmed when both the CPU and GPU are active while playing games. That is the real problem here.

What thermal paste did you use? Some thermal pastes can fail in a laptop in as little as two weeks.
Here is an example of thermal paste pump out.

 

[ian315]

Really appreciate the help here. All of this is confirming what I feared about the machine, unfortunately

this is the paste I used

Do you think it’s worth me going back to Acer? I presume they’ll have numerous ‘get outs’ to avoid admission that the machine is faulty

 

[unclewebb]

How did you apply the paste. A thin even layer that covers the entire die is usually recommended on mobile CPUs.

It is a little late to complain to Acer now about a laptop that is three and a half years old.

Poorly engineered laptops are everywhere. It is up to consumers to return laptops immediately if they are thermal and power limit throttling and not fit for purpose. Hardly anyone ever complains so manufacturers have been able to get away with designing laptops that are unusable.

You can try repasting again.

 

[ian315]

How did you apply the paste. A thin even layer that covers the entire die is usually recommended on mobile CPUs.

It is a little late to complain to Acer now about a laptop that is three and a half years old.

Poorly engineered laptops are everywhere. It is up to consumers to return laptops immediately if they are thermal and power limit throttling and not fit for purpose. Hardly anyone ever complains so manufacturers have been able to get away with designing laptops that are unusable.

You can try repasting again.

I did apply a thin layer but as you say the best I can do is reapply and hope for the best

This year I’m going to treat myself to a custom built PC

Any part recommendations are welcomed, my aim would be to build it for around 1.5-2k

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

This year I’m going to treat myself to a custom built PC

Any part recommendations are welcomed, my aim would be to build it for around 1.5-2k

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DRq6bK

You can use this as a start, or customize it as you wish. If you have any more questions, a new thread would probably get you more responses. I have included the 7900X as a price placeholder for the upcoming 7800X3D - most likely the top gaming CPU you can buy.

 

[ian315]

Thanks guys and thanks for the help with the throttling issues. Even though it looks a lost cause doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the help

so thank you