Help needed with computer shutdowns

[WillbaldMerkatz]

I am a novice in computer builiding and hardware. I own an ASUS laptop. For some time I have been having problems with it shutting down during intensive use of particular games, especially network multiplayer (World of Warships, Vermintide 2, Company of Heroes 2), to the point of some of them becoming unplayable even on lowest settings. Technician called for help identified the problem as thermal throttling (he also changed thermal paste and cleaned the insides of the laptop). ThrottleStop confirms that the problem is yellow Core limit PL1, accompanied by EDP Other on the Ring. I have tried underwolting and few other things I could find articles about in various places but so far nothing works. Can someone help identify and deal with the problem (or at least confirm there is nothing to be done)?

Specs:
ASUS ROG Strix gl502
Nvidia GTX 1070
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz 2.81 GHz
RAM 32 GB
Windows 10 Home

 

[evernessince]

Multiplayer game components typically add more CPU load so it would go with the narrative that your CPU is thermal throttling.

Do you happen to have idle / load temperatures, the frequency the CPU hits at idle / load, and CPU fan RPM numbers? This will give us an idea of how bad the thermals are. For example, if thermals are extremely bad, as in the CPU is going down to or near base clock that might indicate a lack of contact.

You can gather the above data with HWInfo if all of it is not present in throttle stop.

Last, check your event viewer (just hit the windows key and type event viewer) for any critical errors. These might be informative of your system shutdowns.

 

[WillbaldMerkatz]

By "idle" I assume you mean computer right after the start without any significant programs running on it. But what would be the "load" state?

Event Viewer has some errors but I cannot grasp anything that would point directly to the issue. Only thing related to temperature is KernelPower error id 41 - system was booted without being cleanly closed. Aside from that the errors are mostly disk error id 7 - bad memory block.

 

[evernessince]

By "idle" I assume you mean computer right after the start without any significant programs running on it. But what would be the "load" state?

Correct. Best load scenario might be the same games that cause the PC to shut off. Best way to log this information would be to have HWInfo running in sensors only mode (when you first startup the program it'll have two check boxes to the left, one is sensors only and should be the only one checked) with logging enabled. You can enable logging by clicking the blue highlighted button in the picture below which is on the bottom right of the program.

It'll then prompt you to select a filename and destination. I recommended storing on the desktop so it's easy to access. Then you can go ahead a let the PC sit for 1-2 minutes and then attempt to play the games that gave you issues. Should the PC crash, all the needed information will be stored in those log and we can see what's happening.

Event Viewer has some errors but I cannot grasp anything that would point directly to the issue. Only thing related to temperature is KernelPower error id 41 - system was booted without being cleanly closed. Aside from that the errors are mostly disk error id 7 - bad memory block.

KernelPower could be caused by many different things so that's not particularly useful.

The disk errors are interesting. Can you provide a picture of one of them? Could indicate a failing drive, bad memory, or file corruption. You can run CheckDisk to ensure file corruption isn't the cause. You can get a program like CrystalDiskInfo to see if your disk is dying. You can take a screenshot of your disk's health status and post it here if you want me to deep dive through it for you. For memory, MemTest is really good at finding memory issues. That said, it requires that you have a free flash drive.

 

[Bill_Bright]

They can pack the power of a tower PC into those tiny laptop cases, but not the cooling. When you consider even a quality mid or fill tower case is challenged to keep the innards properly cooled, it is no wonder a tiny laptop case can't.

This is why, IMO, there is no such thing as a good gaming (or desktop replacement) laptop. That's all marketing hype - unless you just play solitaire.

Assuming the computer is working fine otherwise, is fully updated and clean of malware and clutter, make sure you operate your laptop on a flat hard surface (not the bed, rug, or your lap). Consider a decent cooling pad that is powered via a wall outlet and not the laptop itself. And if necessary, when tasking the laptop hard, consider blasting a desk fan across it.

I also recommend you watch of your temps. I use and recommend Core Temp to monitor CPU temps in real time. Under Options > Settings > Notification Area, I have mine set to display "Highest temperature" only.

 

[WillbaldMerkatz]

Okay, so it is probably not the case of disk error. HDDSentinel shows disks are fine. Those errors simply show alongside a few others every time a shutdown happens.
I created a log as you instructed. Attaching it here. I took the liberty to separate the columns and make data more readable. If it covers too little time, I can try running the process longer.
Side note - HSWInfo was working from external drive, but I can change that if necessary.

Okay, I used CheckDisk for a "second opinion" on both my disks. While D: drive was all green, C: drive had something like this:

checkDisk will work now with drive: C:
C:\ Volume Label: , File System: NTFS
Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...
1069056 file records processed.
File verification completed.
Phase duration (File record verification): 13.97 seconds.
11426 large file records processed.
Phase duration (Orphan file record recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
0 bad file records processed.
Phase duration (Bad file record checking): 1.10 milliseconds.
Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...
1372 reparse records processed.
Index entry {F3E03562-C9D5-4505-95E5-47DEB470EEDE} - OProcSessId.dat in index $I30 of file 4408 is incorrect.
Index entry {F3E03~1.DAT in index $I30 of file 4408 is incorrect.
Index entry sdxhelper.exe.db-shm in index $I30 of file 74C0 is incorrect.
Index entry sdxhelper.exe.db-wal in index $I30 of file 74C0 is incorrect.
Index entry SDXHEL~1.DB- in index $I30 of file 74C0 is incorrect.
Index entry SDXHEL~2.DB- in index $I30 of file 74C0 is incorrect.
Index entry appinfo.vdf in index $I30 of file 3F727 is incorrect.
Index entry assets.vdf in index $I30 of file 40A2C is incorrect.
1555304 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
Phase duration (Index verification): 41.57 seconds.
Errors found. CHKDSK cannot continue in read-only mode.
Check Disk Callback: 32
Check Disk: Unable to Finish

 

[A&P211]

They can pack the power of a tower PC into those tiny laptop cases, but not the cooling. When you consider even a quality mid or fill tower case is challenged to keep the innards properly cooled, it is no wonder a tiny laptop case can't.

This is why, IMO, there is no such thing as a good gaming (or desktop replacement) laptop. That's all marketing hype - unless you just play solitaire.

Assuming the computer is working fine otherwise, is fully updated and clean of malware and clutter, make sure you operate your laptop on a flat hard surface (not the bed, rug, or your lap). Consider a decent cooling pad that is powered via a wall outlet and not the laptop itself. And if necessary, when tasking the laptop hard, consider blasting a desk fan across it.

I also recommend you watch of your temps. I use and recommend Core Temp to monitor CPU temps in real time. Under Options > Settings > Notification Area, I have mine set to display "Highest temperature" only.

Laptop companies are finally getting better with cooling in most laptops and using better thermal compounds.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Laptop companies are finally getting better with cooling in most laptops and using better thermal compounds.

Sorry, but not really.

What is happening is they are using more conservative power settings and more importantly, more efficient processors and other components that waste less energy and therefore, produce less heat. Note that DDR4 is more efficient than DDR3, thus produces less heat. And DDR5 will help too. They are also using solid state drives instead of power hungry, heat producing hard drives.

Laptop makers are taking advantage of the advances the processor and RAM makers are making. A good thing, but the laptop makers don't get the credit for those more efficient devices.

As far as better TIM (thermal interface materials), they've been doing that for years now. But it is important to note and remember, the best TIMs typically only provide a few degrees of improvement over those just considered good (and there's nothing wrong with "good"). The point here is, "IF" the system needs those few degrees to keep from throttling and crossing thermal thresholds, they are already too high and clearly there's inadequate cooling.

At the same time, there is still the demand (from consumers) for lighter and thinner laptops and that then limits the space for better fans and bigger heatsinks. Even a basic mid-tower case these days typically support at least two 140mm X 25mm (or thicker) case fans, plus the fan in the PSU, and monster (in comparison) CPU heatsink fan assemblies.

Even if they do put 2 x 140mm fans in the bottom of the laptop case, (1) it is likely they will be less than 10mm thick and thus will not be able to scoop up much air and (2) no way there will be a complentary amount (in area) of exhaust vents - thus a limit amount of "flow" through the case.

I am not saying they have not improved at all. They have over the last 10 or so years laptops have been marketed for gaming. But the laws of physics (and thermodynamics) simply dictate limits here. They will never be able to pack the cooling capacity of a mid-tower case into a mobile computer case. And therefore, laptops will always be limited in their capabilities compared to a properly cooled desktop - at least not and remain a "mobile" computer.

 

[WillbaldMerkatz]

Just letting know that I fixed the issue, but I still have no idea how. I was just trying anything I could before giving up on this.

I switched from 5G network to 2G network. Both on the same router. All problems disappeared. I switched from lowest graphics to recommended high and it still works as intended. My face looked like this , but in the end I am happy it worked.

 

[Bill_Bright]

First, let's make sure we use the correct terminology so everyone is on the same page.

You are talking about "bands" not networks. So that is the 5GHz band and the 2.4GHz band. Those are frequencies used by wifi connected devices.

5GHz is generally less crowded and faster. However, 5GHz radio frequencies have a much shorter bandwidth and that results in much less range. So the 5GHz range works best for your wireless devices that are in the same room as your WAP (wireless access point) which is typically integrated into wireless routers.

The 2.4GHz band is much more crowded but also has much longer ranges. So they are commonly used with devices on the other side of the house, or on different floors.

HOWEVER - these have absolutely nothing to do with the computer shutting down. They only affect network performance.