Help understanding what is wrong in my undervolt (or laptop?)

[Hanzoo]

Hi everyone, I really need some help to understand what's happening with my laptop, I have a Nitro 5 (GTX 1650 & i5-9300h) bought in december/2020, since then I'm trying to get good temperatures but I really don't know what I'm doing wrong and what can be done to fix this issue.

I'll upload the log files (took this today, after 1.5 hour of gameplay) and explain everything that I can, but I'll start this saying that I'm really new to the whole pc thing, this is my first laptop gamer, so tell me if I'm missing some info here. I've never used software for stress test, so my test here is really in games (The Division and R6 Siege atm), in the past week I tried some different settings (never going above 3.5 GHz, haven't touched 4GHz in months... just locking at 3.5 max overall) and the result is this:

• at -0.125v on core and cache, everything is fine but the temps are getting above 90°C sometimes
• at -0.140v everything is the same, but with some improvements
• at -0.150v the same thing happens, but with little improvements, I haven't found any issue with these voltages in this range
• at -0.190v on core and -0.175v on cache everything was fine when browsing and playing R6 Siege, but I got my first and only BSOD when I tried The Division
• I saw on some thread and tried -0.200v on core and -0.125 on cache, didn't used this as much but no BSOD or freezes, so I'll guess that this setting is "stable" atm

These are the settings that I'm trying right now, I just want to avoid going on 90°C (even if 100 is the limit). All the images and the log file are from today, I was playing with -0.150v on core and cache, 3.4ghz overall, with both fans at 5k rpm + and with my laptop cooler (lifting "1 finger" from the desk). I've only worked with the FIVR window, I'll be uploading the TPL window for info but I did nothing there.

I really don't know if something is wrong here on the TS or if it is my laptop (I still have time for warranty and everything else), I just want to understand more about what's happening and do the best to make sure that everything is fine. One more thing, tell me if I'm not being clear and where, I'm brazilian so my "english writing" isn't at the top haha

Thanks for helping!

 

[unclewebb]

Most gaming laptops have barely adequate cooling. They tend to run hot and 90°C or higher is fairly normal when gaming. You can return your laptop but the next one you buy will probably be more or less the same for temperatures.

All CPUs are unique. If your CPU is 100% stable with the CPU core and cache at -140 mV or -150 mV then you have a good CPU. The 8th and 9th Gen mobile CPUs with 4 cores seem to undervolt a little more compared to the 6 core CPUs.

Some users get slightly better results in some software by increasing the core offset to a bigger number compared to the cache offset. I recommend using Cinebench R20 when testing your CPU. If it shows a difference when increasing your core offset to -200 mV and your CPU is still stable then use that new setting. Whatever works best. If you make a significant voltage adjustment and there is no difference in your Cinebench score or temperatures then you might as well leave the voltages set equally. If you have any blue screens at -150 mV then go back to -140 mV.

MAXON Cinebench R20.0 Download

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn

www.techpowerup.com

I would check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box and I would clear the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Your computer is running well. The only way to make it run better is to improve the cooling if that is possible. Some people like trying different thermal pastes. I vote for Noctua NT-H2. Changing the thermal paste might void your warranty so check before deciding to do this.

 

[Hanzoo]

Most gaming laptops have barely adequate cooling. They tend to run hot and 90°C or higher is fairly normal when gaming. You can return your laptop but the next one you buy will probably be more or less the same for temperatures.

All CPUs are unique. If your CPU is 100% stable with the CPU core and cache at -140 mV or -150 mV then you have a good CPU. The 8th and 9th Gen mobile CPUs with 4 cores seem to undervolt a little more compared to the 6 core CPUs.

Some users get slightly better results in some software by increasing the core offset to a bigger number compared to the cache offset. I recommend using Cinebench R20 when testing your CPU. If it shows a difference when increasing your core offset to -200 mV and your CPU is still stable then use that new setting. Whatever works best. If you make a significant voltage adjustment and there is no difference in your Cinebench score or temperatures then you might as well leave the voltages set equally. If you have any blue screens at -150 mV then go back to -140 mV.

MAXON Cinebench R20.0 Download

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn

www.techpowerup.com

I would check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box and I would clear the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. Your computer is running well. The only way to make it run better is to improve the cooling if that is possible. Some people like trying different thermal pastes. I vote for Noctua NT-H2. Changing the thermal paste might void your warranty so check before deciding to do this.

Ty for the response, I'll download Cinebench and check these settings that you recommended on ThrottleStop.

About the CPU frequency, isn't strange that at 3.4GHz I'm getting 90°C already (I would expect this at full speed, but not at lower frequency)? Another thing, is it dangerous to change voltage and frequency without shutting down the laptop? Or we can switch between voltages and frequency between tests, without shutting down, an this wouldn't cause any damage to the CPU?

I really appreciate the help, thanks a lot!

 

[unclewebb]

Intel designs their CPUs so they constantly adjust their speed and voltage hundreds of times per second. No worries. I change voltage and power limits while tests are running.

isn't strange

Not strange. Just poor design. This is common across the laptop industry. They all think that users want a CPU that runs on the edge of thermal throttling. I prefer my desktop computer.

 

[Hanzoo]

Intel designs their CPUs so they constantly adjust their speed and voltage hundreds of times per second. No worries. I change voltage and power limits while tests are running.

That's pretty good. I've been trying here in Cinebench and the good spot seems to be -0.200v on core and -0.140v on cache, so I'll stick to this setting and see what happens when playing. You mentioned before about changing the thermal paste, here we can't do this without crossing the warranty, so I can't try this now, even undervolt seems to be a cross-limit in warranty, but I'll take this risk.

In that Turbo Ratio Limits window, what's a decent setting for the cores? Is there any downside in choosing the same value for all the 4 states, or should I put lower frequency when 3 to for 4 cores are active? I thought that if my frequencys were floating between a range, the temps would get better during gameplay, in some menus and less-demanding situations the frequency wouldn't be at top (idk if this window is responsible for this floating or not, but in some games the frequency is fixed, on other games it changes).

Ty for the help, I've been learning alot from your responses on older threads, I just tried -0.200v and -0.140 on core an cache because I saw you commenting this on other thread.

 

[unclewebb]

In that Turbo Ratio Limits window, what's a decent setting for the cores?

You are already doing exactly what you should be doing. You do not like the temperatures at full speed so you have reduced the turbo ratios to lower power consumption and to lower the temperatures. This is working for you so carry on doing what you are doing.

choosing the same value for all the 4 states

I prefer doing this but it probably does not make any significant difference. Think about the problem you have and how you are trying to fix that problem. When 3 or 4 cores are active, your CPU is running too hot so lowering these turbo ratios to control heat makes sense. When 1 or 2 cores are active, is your CPU running too hot? Probably not. Why are you lowering these turbo ratios? There does not seem to be a reason to do that. Consider leaving these at the full 41 so the CPU can run at its rated speed when lightly loaded. There is no requirement that you have to lower all of the turbo ratios equally but you can carry on doing this if you like. There is no requirement for anything. Do whatever works best for you.

in some games the frequency is fixed, on other games it changes

On screen monitoring data while gaming does not accurately report the CPU speed. With your CPU, all active cores are always locked to the same CPU frequency. When a core enters the low power C7 state, it is actually running at 0 MHz because the core is disconnected from the internal clock and it is disconnected from the voltage rail. Monitoring software that reports MHz without reporting C state data does not give you an accurate look at what the CPU cores are really doing.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option while playing. This data will give you a more accurate look at what speed your CPU is running at and if there are any throttling problems. The log file only reports the multiplier from the active core or cores since that is all that is important.

 

[Hanzoo]

You are already doing exactly what you should be doing. You do not like the temperatures at full speed so you have reduced the turbo ratios to lower power consumption and to lower the temperatures. This is working for you so carry on doing what you are doing.


I prefer doing this but it probably does not make any significant difference. Think about the problem you have and how you are trying to fix that problem. When 3 or 4 cores are active, your CPU is running too hot so lowering these turbo ratios to control heat makes sense. When 1 or 2 cores are active, is your CPU running too hot? Probably not. Why are you lowering these turbo ratios? There does not seem to be a reason to do that. Consider leaving these at the full 41 so the CPU can run at its rated speed when lightly loaded. There is no requirement that you have to lower all of the turbo ratios equally but you can carry on doing this if you like. There is no requirement for anything. Do whatever works best for you.

Honestly, I didn't really thought about leaving 2 cores at 41 and it makes sense because the frequency will drop when 3 to 4 cores are being used, I'll try this.

Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option while playing. This data will give you a more accurate look at what speed your CPU is running at and if there are any throttling problems. The log file only reports the multiplier from the active core or cores since that is all that is important.

Really good to know this, ty.

Right now I'll be sticking with these settings and see if any freezes or BSODs happens, and if everything works fine that's a good spot for me. One last thing, I saw someone having problems with undervolt when using the laptop on batery, I tried this today, booting on batery and running Cinebench. Overall everything seems to be fine, the only thing that is "wrong" (idk if it is wrong or if is completely normal) is the Limit Reasons window, I'll upload the image here, is this normal? I'll upload the image of booting on cable too (obs: I need to uncheck BD prochot, I haven't tested this yet).

Ty for the help, have a great week!

 

[unclewebb]

I saw someone having problems with undervolt when using the laptop on battery

If an undervolt is too aggressive, it might work OK when plugged in but some laptops will freeze when switching to battery power. That is a sure sign that the CPU needs more voltage. A stable CPU will be stable at any speed and it will be stable whether you are plugged in or running on battery power or switching between the two. A stable computer should rarely if ever show a BSOD or randomly lock up. You should be able to run any benchmark test without issues.

Yellow boxes in Limit Reasons after booting up are fairly meaningless. Some power and current limits are not setup soon enough so some records of throttling can be triggered immediately during the boot process. You only need to worry about Limit Reasons when you start seeing red boxes which indicates that throttling is in progress.

Some laptops might set a lower power or current limit when running on battery power compared to when plugged in. Most laptops are not designed to give maximum performance when they are not plugged in. Running extreme stress tests like Prime95 on battery power could reduce the life of a battery and should be avoided. Most gaming laptops are not going to give the same performance when running on battery power compared to when plugged in. I have always recommended not using ThrottleStop to try and force your CPU to perform at maximum speed and maximum power when on battery power.

 

[Hanzoo]

If an undervolt is too aggressive, it might work OK when plugged in but some laptops will freeze when switching to battery power. That is a sure sign that the CPU needs more voltage. A stable CPU will be stable at any speed and it will be stable whether you are plugged in or running on battery power or switching between the two. A stable computer should rarely if ever show a BSOD or randomly lock up. You should be able to run any benchmark test without issues.

Good to know, I'll keep an eye when using battery, if everything is stable I'll apply the same settings to other profiles.

Yellow boxes in Limit Reasons after booting up are fairly meaningless. Some power and current limits are not setup soon enough so some records of throttling can be triggered immediately during the boot process. You only need to worry about Limit Reasons when you start seeing red boxes which indicates that throttling is in progress.

That's pretty good, I'm always cleaning the Limit Reasons after booting to make sure that if anything happens when using, it will be noticed. I haven't seen yet a red flag at all, so this is good news.

Running extreme stress tests like Prime95 on battery power could reduce the life of a battery and should be avoided. Most gaming laptops are not going to give the same performance when running on battery power compared to when plugged in. I have always recommended not using ThrottleStop to try and force your CPU to perform at maximum speed and maximum power when on battery power.

Good to know², I just use battery for normal things like watching a movie or doing some college work out of my desk, the last setting that I was using on battery had a 3.0 GHz limit, I haven't played or forced the CPU when using battery, so what you've mentioned is another reason to not do this.

Now I'll pay attention to everything here and hope for the best haha, I'm completely satisfied with the actual setting so this is a realy good spot for me, if nothing wrong happens. I really appreciate the help and everything you taught here, it's helping a lot haha, ty!

Have a great week!