Help - USB DAC drops out after resuming from sleep

[Deleted member 24505]

Just sell it and buy something else, topping or schitt, not fucking cambridge though eh

 

[SpittinFax]

Just sell it and buy something else, topping or schitt, not fucking cambridge though eh

What's wrong with choosing to not throw money at the problem? I can live with this problem myself but I can't live with seeing an issue go unresolved for many users.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

What's wrong with choosing to not throw money at the problem? I can live with this problem myself but I can't live with seeing an issue go unresolved for many users.

Maybe it cannot be resolved, if it's a problem with the components they are using or design flaws, it would mean a redesign which is not going to help you is it. I looked at one of them, glad i never now. Shame as the audio quality is very good.

 

[tabascosauz]

I hate it, absolutely HATE IT, when manufacturers play the "normal behaviour" card. Noctua pulled the same stunt on me when I contacted support with video evidence that my A14 fan is resonating and unreasonably loud. Their explanation was that some people are more sensitive to certain frequencies (ignoring the fact that even a shitty microphone could pick it up!). So basically just ignore it.

I had hope when Ifi said the developers are working on it but it's been over a month now with no patch. Yet another legitimate customer support problem falling on deaf ears.

What's wrong with choosing to not throw money at the problem? I can live with this problem myself but I can't live with seeing an issue go unresolved for many users.

Probably safer to bet on not receiving support in the land of audio. Been using my Scarlett Solo for while now as the interface to my PGA181 mic - Focusrite's own drivers/Control cause audio to pop like a mofo on both output and input. It's no secret but Focusrite just doesn't care enough to fix it. Generic Microsoft drivers always work like a charm so that's what I use - I see that unfortunately didn't make a difference for you though.

AM4 has a weird relationship with USB devices. One of my boards on the Instant60 PCB will be seen but not recognized by Windows about 50% of the time; I threw the whole book at it but gave up. It has a ARM STM32 relatively uncommon in the keeb world, but works fine on Intel. Then in the land of phones, with Xiaomi's MIFlash tool one of the common suggestions to avoid failed flashes/no device detected is literally to not use an AMD platform. I haven't tested that enough to personally verify it, but it did happen to me at one point early on. And then there's the longstanding USB disconnect/other various USB issues on this platform, which should be fixed as of AGESA 1203 but was a pain in the ass for a very long time.

 

[xyphax]

Hello there, i just acquired last week the ifi zen dac v2 and i notice the exact same problem, :
my conf : Proc : AMD ryzen 5 5600X , motherboard : B550I AORUS PRO AX , BIOS version F13k
I notice a second problem this day : I was listening some music with my headphones using the dac then suddenly i got a freeze for few seconds then my screen goes black and then my sound automaticaly switched to my monitor speakers, i didnt do anything in particular... pretty annoying

I did most of the steps you have done to correct this shit but it seems hopeless anyway.

It's a shame because besides that i enjoy the sound quality specially the bass boost on this device.

 

[X71200]

USB DAC is one of the things that can cut out when you put your PC to sleep, I'd just recommend not using hibernation and doing other methods of power saving. Buying a new DAC for this is such an idiotic idea I'd prefer not to waste thoughts upon.

 

[bug]

What's wrong with choosing to not throw money at the problem? I can live with this problem myself but I can't live with seeing an issue go unresolved for many users.

It's probably some power saving or timing issue (or both). If memory serves me well, there were a number of issues with USB on Zen boards. Far from widespread, but it seems you drew the short straw anyway.

 

[SpittinFax]

Hello there, i just acquired last week the ifi zen dac v2 and i notice the exact same problem, :
my conf : Proc : AMD ryzen 5 5600X , motherboard : B550I AORUS PRO AX , BIOS version F13k
I notice a second problem this day : I was listening some music with my headphones using the dac then suddenly i got a freeze for few seconds then my screen goes black and then my sound automaticaly switched to my monitor speakers, i didnt do anything in particular... pretty annoying

I did most of the steps you have done to correct this shit but it seems hopeless anyway.

It's a shame because besides that i enjoy the sound quality specially the bass boost on this device.

Great to know, thanks for posting. Haven't had the second problem myself. I have all audio playback devices disabled except the Ifi DAC to prevent Windows from switching default devices without my knowing. It can happen (very rarely).

USB DAC is one of the things that can cut out when you put your PC to sleep, I'd just recommend not using hibernation and doing other methods of power saving. Buying a new DAC for this is such an idiotic idea I'd prefer not to waste thoughts upon.

Hibernation is okay, it takes a few extra seconds and adds a few extra write cycles to the SSD but it does at least side-step this issue. A lot of users get scared about hibernation reducing their SSD lifespan, personally I've used it a lot and am yet to see evidence of drive degradation. Even if it does happen eventually......it's not really something I'd lose sleep over.

 

[SpittinFax]

I wasted time making another attempt at requesting a solution to this problem.

The Technical Support Advisor is officially denying any problem exists and claiming that it is "standard behaviour".

Well I've tried my best and said what I need to say. I'm done talking to the brick wall of Ifi technical support.

Conversation:

 

[MarsM4N]

The Technical Support Advisor is officially denying any problem exists and claiming that it is "standard behaviour".

"Standard behaviour", LMAO! Yet another crap company that denies obvious product faults. Comsumer protection agencies really need to step up their game.

We are at a time where you have to do thorough research before buying anything. In your case I guess it's too late. So I would do some research and get a replacement from a different company. Test the new item right away, if it's crap send it back. If it's fine, keep it & put your sleeper AMP on eBay.

Btw. I am using a refurbished "FiiO E10K Olympus 2" from eBay for 50 bucks, good sound & no issues so far.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Just buy something else, there are a lot of options.

 

[bug]

I wasted time making another attempt at requesting a solution to this problem.

The Technical Support Advisor is officially denying any problem exists and claiming that it is "standard behaviour".

Well I've tried my best and said what I need to say. I'm done talking to the brick wall of Ifi technical support.

Conversation:

View attachment 246130

You didn't make it clear the behavior is different on Intel systems, thus making it easy for them to play the "standard behavior" card.
And it is possible the problem is not the DAC, but something on the motherboard. So at the end of the day, you still don't know.

 

[MarsM4N]

You didn't make it clear the behavior is different on Intel systems, thus making it easy for them to play the "standard behavior" card.
And it is possible the problem is not the DAC, but something on the motherboard. So at the end of the day, you still don't know.

From their product sheet: USB Input: Phone/PC Input: USB3.0 B Socket (USB2.0 compatible)

If those specs are met, it should work on any PC, be it Intel or AMD. Period.

 

[eidairaman1]

If anything id make sure usb ports are powered at all times within bios, windows power settings are set to not suspend the ports either. Same with hardware properties...

 

[SpittinFax]

From their product sheet: USB Input: Phone/PC Input: USB3.0 B Socket (USB2.0 compatible)

If those specs are met, it should work on any PC, be it Intel or AMD. Period.

Exactly. This is the core reason why interface standards exist, for the purpose of multi-brand and multi-generational compatibility.

And lets just imagine if this happened with HDMI. You buy a brand new LCD monitor, only to find out that it doesn't function properly on AMD graphics cards. The monitor just doesn't wake up from sleep mode unless you cycle the power button. How pissed off would customers be to find out that the manufacturer wasn't proactive enough to conduct compatibility testing on the second-most popular brand on the market? Crowds of users would be going apeshit online after realizing that they have to either change their graphics card or monitor to fix the problem that the manufacturer claims no responsibility for.

Lets have another look at the original response I got from Ifi after lodging my first customer support ticket:

"Thank you for your ticket regarding the Zen Dac V2. This is a known issue that we are looking into, I have passed this information to our development team to look into for a possible future firmware update to fix this issue."

Huh, isn't that strange. They used the word "issue" to describe what I was talking about. And a potential firmware update to "fix" it? It's almost like they're acknowledging that this is not standard behaviour, but instead an actual problem that needs to be fixed! There's a real contradiction here in their communications. And I notice that it's the same Technical Support Advisor (that title still makes me chuckle) who replied, so I can only assume he's changed tactics and stopped acknowledging that this is a problem.

Nick, you're not a very good T.S.A. but you're talented at using a broom. Sweep it under the rug quick smart before somebody notices it!

 

[seaeagle]

I've the original Zen Dac and had the same issue on an Intel desktop: connection was lost after resuming from sleep.
I think I've found a solution: install the older Windows driver, availabe from IFI, designed for USB 2.0 and connect the device to an USB 2.0 port.
Driver Info: V 3.20.0 - Release Build
So far soo good.
Hope this helps.

 

[Mussels]

@SpittinFax - did you try a USB 2.0 port/cable yet?

That actually sounds like a plausible solution

 

[seaeagle]

@SpittinFax - did you try a USB 2.0 port/cable yet?

That actually sounds like a plausible solution

USB 2.0 port with the USB 2.0 drivers. That did it for me. (Intel CPU.)

 

[Mussels]

USB 2.0 port with the USB 2.0 drivers. That did it for me. (Intel CPU.)

Yup, that's why i tagged him and suggested it - the extra notification may get his attention faster

 

[SpittinFax]

I've the original Zen Dac and had the same issue on an Intel desktop: connection was lost after resuming from sleep.
I think I've found a solution: install the older Windows driver, availabe from IFI, designed for USB 2.0 and connect the device to an USB 2.0 port.
Driver Info: V 3.20.0 - Release Build
So far soo good.
Hope this helps.

@SpittinFax - did you try a USB 2.0 port/cable yet?

That actually sounds like a plausible solution

After a lot of testing across the best part of a day, I can confirm that @seaeagle yes you're indeed correct! The USB 2.0 drivers make Sleep mode work without any hiccups. That being said, I tested a bunch of different configurations to see what setups have issues and which ones don't, because there's a bit more to the story. I'll go through my results in order:

1. No drivers installed, USB Type B 3.0 cable, USB 3.0 port - Failed​

​

2. No drivers installed, USB Type B 2.0 cable, USB 2.0 port - Failed​

​

3. USB 2.0 drivers, USB Type B 3.0 cable, USB 3.0 port, 32 bit 48kHz mode (default) - SUCCESS!!​

​

4. USB 2.0 drivers, USB Type B 3.0 cable, USB 3.0 port, 24 bit 96kHz mode - Failed​

​

5. USB 2.0 drivers, USB Type B 2.0 cable, USB 2.0 port, 32 bit 48kHz mode (default) - SUCCESS!!​

​

6. USB 2.0 drivers, USB Type B 2.0 cable, USB 2.0 port, 24 bit 96kHz mode - SUCCESS!!​

I did at least a dozen sleep cycles (sometimes even more) for each configuration to make sure I didn't prematurely call a successful result. Because sometimes you can have a dropout after even 6 - 8 cycles where it initially seems resolved but it actually isn't.

So from my results, the USB 2.0 drivers with a Type B 2.0 cable and USB 2.0 port does fix the problem completely. Notice that while a Type B 3.0 cable and USB 3.0 port does work with the default bitrate of 48kHz, you'll have issues if you change the bitrate to something else (e.g. 96kHz). I'm not sure if it's the cable or USB port that is causing it and I might test that a bit more in due course (UPDATE: It's the USB 3.0 port causing issues.....not the Type B 3.0 cable).

Good work @seaeagle and @Mussels, we all deserve icecream.

As a reference to which driver I downloaded:

 

[Mussels]

Oh they have a specific USB 2.0 driver to use?
Makes me wonder if that driver includes a fix for the issue - is that a replacement driver for the USB DAC itself, or for USB 2.0 controllers on the mobo?

I wonder if half the problem here is if a user has generic or third party USB drivers, because you're far more likely to have non-MS drivers on USB3 ports

This is my system, i have one USB 3.0 hub, and one monitor has a two port hub built in.
Any of these could be on different drivers to the rest and I'd have no clue

 

[lowrider_05]

I Just want to add my findings on this Matter. I have a Ryzen based system and an ifi zendac v1 and had the same issue until i found an old USB 3.0 pcie Card in my stuff, since i Put this Card in my PC and use it to Connect to the DAC, it works fine.

 

[SpittinFax]

Oh they have a specific USB 2.0 driver to use?
Makes me wonder if that driver includes a fix for the issue - is that a replacement driver for the USB DAC itself, or for USB 2.0 controllers on the mobo?

I wonder if half the problem here is if a user has generic or third party USB drivers, because you're far more likely to have non-MS drivers on USB3 ports

This is my system, i have one USB 3.0 hub, and one monitor has a two port hub built in.
Any of these could be on different drivers to the rest and I'd have no clue

It could very well just come down to the implementation of USB drivers. I was able to verify that the cable type isn't causing any problems, it's the USB 3.0 port that won't tolerate anything other than 48kHz default. The driver is definitely installed on the computer side and it's changing the way the PC interacts with the DAC. Strange though because I would've thought that Windows would already have plenty of USB 2.0 functionality already built in to sort these issues out.

 

[Mussels]

It could very well just come down to the implementation of USB drivers. I was able to verify that the cable type isn't causing any problems, it's the USB 3.0 port that won't tolerate anything other than 48kHz default. The driver is definitely installed on the computer side and it's changing the way the PC interacts with the DAC. Strange though because I would've thought that Windows would already have plenty of USB 2.0 functionality already built in to sort these issues out.

sounds like the DAC isn't fully compatible with windows generic USB audio drivers

Check device manager, and see if the DAC has changed to that specific driver - my G560 over USB can work as generic stereo sound device, or virtual 5.1 once changed to logitechs driver that names it

 

[SpittinFax]

sounds like the DAC isn't fully compatible with windows generic USB audio drivers

Check device manager, and see if the DAC has changed to that specific driver - my G560 over USB can work as generic stereo sound device, or virtual 5.1 once changed to logitechs driver that names it
View attachment 255039

Yeah it's hard to tell. Doesn't look like there's any new changes under the USB controllers section.

There's multiple entries related to the same audio device. It's also listed as a "USB Input Device", although you have to look at the VID/PID details to verify that it's the same device:

This is what the "Information" section actually says about the device:

Device USB\VID_20B1&PID_3008&REV_074C&MI_03\0003 was configured.​

​

Driver Name: input.inf​

Class Guid: {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da}​

Driver Date: 06/21/2006​

Driver Version: 10.0.19041.868​

Driver Provider: Microsoft​

Driver Section: HID_Inst.NT​

Driver Rank: 0xFF3202​

Matching Device Id: USB\CLASS_03​

Outranked Drivers: ​

Device Updated: false​

Parent Device: USB\VID_20B1&PID_3008\0003​

So there's some driver-related information in there. Driver provider is Microsoft and the driver date is 2006, so that's going back quite a while.