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Home network tips needed

Dalkamyr

Dalkamyr

Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
177 (0.05/day)
I've recently started enjoying fiber optic gigabit internet where I live. Im faced with 2 challenges.

1) my 2 in 1 router/modem provided by Bell Canada (hub 3000) is a bit away from my living room downstairs. So I bought an Ethernet cable down there for more stability and speed. Do you guys have tips on how to hang that cable on the walls without making it look nasty? Cause I live in an appartment and I can't do a bunch of big holes in the wall. Also if I use a stapler I fear I'll damage the Ethernet cable

2) when I'm like 1 meter away from the modem router. I get about 400mbps on WiFi. But that drops considerably as I get like 10-14 meters away... Is there a way to take full advantage of my gigabit speed thru WiFi?

Should I get a better router?
Extenders?

What do you think?

The devices I use is a hardcore Gaming PC
I have an htpc which uses lots of bandwidth. And I have an xbox one x. My cell phone is a Samsung note 8.

Oh and yes, I can make use of the gigabit speed for those if you who would say 150 Mbps is enough for most... Which it is. But not for me
 
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Dalkamyr said:
I've recently started enjoying fiber optic gigabit internet where I live. Im faced with 2 challenges.

1) my 2 in 1 router/modem provided by Bell Canada (hub 3000) is a bit away from my living room downstairs. So I bought an Ethernet cable down there for more stability and speed. Do you guys have tips on how to hang that cable on the walls without making it look nasty? Cause I live in an appartment and I can't do a bunch of big holes in the wall. Also if I use a stapler I fear I'll damage the Ethernet cable

2) when I'm like 1 meter away from the modem router. I get about 400mbps on WiFi. But that drops considerably as I get like 10-14 meters away... Is there a way to take full advantage of my gigabit speed thru WiFi?

Should I get a better router?
Extenders?
Click to expand...

1- you can try sticky cable guides. You can also try powerline or moca adapters rather then Ethernet as a last resort but powerline adapters don't work as well as ethernet (better then wifi back haul) and moca needs cable coaxial wall plates installed otherwise you running a cable down the wall again.
https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Mul...538662287&sr=8-5&keywords=sticky+cable+guides

2 - par for the course with AC wifi even on the top of the line routers that peak at around 600mbps (see link) and drop considerably with distance. You can try 160mhz bandwidth (if your router supports it) but you also need a client that supports it which means the latest intel 9260 wifi card (very few devices use it). 4x4 MU-MIMO routers can peak around 700-750mbps but you also need a 4x4 MIMO client, another rarity.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...-wifi-gaming-router-reviewed?showall=&start=3
 
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I'll +1 smallnetbuilder.com
Since you're in an apartment, you may want to be careful of what adhesives you put on the wall. Consider something from 3M Command.
Secondly, if your apartment is carpeted, you should be able to run the cable along the wall, actually tucking the cable in between the wall and the carpet. Be careful of the carpet tack strips.
 
1. There are cable hangers available in any hardware store. Basically a plastic half loop which the cable snaps into with a small nail / tack to affix to wall ... commonly done along moulding. Also adhesive type

https://www.truevalue.com/shop/elec...ries/round-cord-clips-w-clear-adhesive-strips
https://www.truevalue.com/shop/elec...adhesive-mounted-releasable-clamp-3-4-in-2-pk

2. There's also exterior conduit or cable "surface" raceways
https://www.cableorganizer.com/surface-raceways/

3. WiFi is ok for phones at stuff but if your ever gonna sit in that spot for an hour, Id want a cable.

4. There's no sense paying for hi speed internet if the rest of yur network is going to bottleneck it.
 
dirtyferret said:
1- you can try sticky cable guides. You can also try powerline or moca adapters rather then Ethernet as a last resort but powerline adapters don't work as well as ethernet (better then wifi back haul) and moca needs cable coaxial wall plates installed otherwise you running a cable down the wall again.
https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Mul...538662287&sr=8-5&keywords=sticky+cable+guides

2 - par for the course with AC wifi even on the top of the line routers that peak at around 600mbps (see link) and drop considerably with distance. You can try 160mhz bandwidth (if your router supports it) but you also need a client that supports it which means the latest intel 9260 wifi card (very few devices use it). 4x4 MU-MIMO routers can peak around 700-750mbps but you also need a 4x4 MIMO client, another rarity.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...-wifi-gaming-router-reviewed?showall=&start=3
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the recommendations for wall fixtures etc.

As for my speed issues. I've done further testing and a lot of reading on the internet today and it boils down to this:

I tested my wifi speeds in every room. I seem to get a consistant 300-500mbps near the modem itself (like 1 meter away)
I get 260 Mbps in my bedroom but it drops to 5-20mbps in the living room and other areas. There seems to be a lot of other wifi networks certainly causing interference...

Also I'd still like to hear your opinion regarding two questions:

1) how much of an observable difference in wifi speed and STABILITY could I potentially gain by using a stronger and better router? Seeing the bell hub 3000 is an ac router/modem... Would buying a stronger ac router (or ad, ax) increase the RANGE of my coverage?

2) how much by using a wifi extender? (wall plugs) (not hardwire or moca)

3) lastly I've read about mimo 4x4...etc... What exactly are the benefits of mimo? Are my devices compatible with it? Note 8,xbox one x, ipad pro 2nd Gen, pc etc

4) I read about the 5.8ghz frequency. Would a router that uses it help? What about QOS. Whats the benefits of qos
 
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This article should answer all of your questions

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/bas...177-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2018-edition

Just my personal thoughts
1) im not familiar with the bell hub 3000 but looking at some of the various hardware they have used with it on wikidevi; it looks mediocre so I would expect to see better range and throughput from one of the better Asus, netgear, synology routers.

2) using a wifi extender would be a cheaper alternative then buying a new router to increase throughput in your living room

3) MU-MIMO allow your router to talk to clients simultaneously rather then one at a time. You need a 4x4 MU-MIMO router and clients that support MU-MIMO for it to work properly. The Note 8 may support it, not sure on the other clients you listed (currently few support it).

4) QoS allows you to prioritize traffic so things like gaming or video can be prioritized over email. Ive personally never tested something like 5.2 vs 5.8ghz but from what i have read on forums there should be little difference.
 
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dirtyferret said:
This article should answer all of your questions

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/bas...177-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2018-edition

Just my personal thoughts
1) im not familiar with the bell hub 3000 but looking at some of the various hardware they have used on it on wikidevi and it look mediocre so I would expect to see better range and throughput from one of the better Asus, netgear, synology routers.

2) using a wifi extender would be a cheaper alternative then buying a new router to increase throughput in your living room

3) MU-MIMO allow your router to talk to clients simultaneously rather then one at a time. You need a 4x4 MU-MIMO router and clients that support MU-MIMO for it to work properly. The Note 8 may support it, not sure on the other clients you listed (currently few support it).

4) QoS allows you to prioritize traffic so things like gaming or video can be prioritized over email. Ive personally never tested something like 5.2 vs 5.8ghz but from what i have read on forums there should be little difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the interesting comments and the article. That was some TLDR articles lol. But I read most of it anyways.

I think my solution for now will be to get the bell whole home wifi pods for 5$/month. My apartment is weirdly built. I'm on like 3 different floors (long story) so mesh coverage is probably better than a beastly router.

The bell router is actually quite decent. 1gbps plus capable, it's also tri band. But Im pretty sure one of the 5ghz radios is reserved for her TV/PVR boxes which I don't use cause I don't need tv service...

In a perfect world scenario I'd buy a beast 4x4 mu mimo and learn how to bypass the bell hub 3000 which from my research seems to be a very complicated process and get my own mesh network kit

I'll report back the results from the whole home wifi pods results.
 
here is the article in a nutshell

So here are our recommendations in a nutshell:

  • If you have an N class router, it's way past time to upgrade to AC class. This can provide both throughput and range improvement, even with 11g or n devices. See Does An AC Router Improve N Device Performance?
  • If you have a small area to cover and just a few devices, AC1200 class will work fine.
  • AC1900 class / three stream routers continue to provide best price performance if you're looking for the next step up from AC1200.
  • If you want the best shot at coverage from a single Wi-Fi router, choose a four-stream, dual-band router (AC2600, AC3100/3150).
  • Tri-band routers don't provide additional coverage or throughput. They're mainly for increasing capacity, i.e. handling more devices.
  • Don't let MU-MIMO or 160 MHz bandwidth support influence your purchase decision. Both require support on the device side to work.
  • Routers that support DFS can help if you are having a hard time with interference from too many 5 GHz networks.
  • Try a tri-band extender like NETGEAR's EX8000 or Linksys' RE9000, if you like the router you have, or can't change it,
  • Choose a multi-device "mesh" system instead of "tri-band" AC5300/5400 routers, if you have a lot of devices and a large area to cover. Tri-band products like NETGEAR's Orbi, Linksys' Velop or eero Gen 2 have better backhaul performance than dual-band systems, which is key to overall Wi-Fi system performance.
 
dirtyferret said:
here is the article in a nutshell

So here are our recommendations in a nutshell:

  • If you have an N class router, it's way past time to upgrade to AC class. This can provide both throughput and range improvement, even with 11g or n devices. See Does An AC Router Improve N Device Performance?
  • If you have a small area to cover and just a few devices, AC1200 class will work fine.
  • AC1900 class / three stream routers continue to provide best price performance if you're looking for the next step up from AC1200.
  • If you want the best shot at coverage from a single Wi-Fi router, choose a four-stream, dual-band router (AC2600, AC3100/3150).
  • Tri-band routers don't provide additional coverage or throughput. They're mainly for increasing capacity, i.e. handling more devices.
  • Don't let MU-MIMO or 160 MHz bandwidth support influence your purchase decision. Both require support on the device side to work.
  • Routers that support DFS can help if you are having a hard time with interference from too many 5 GHz networks.
  • Try a tri-band extender like NETGEAR's EX8000 or Linksys' RE9000, if you like the router you have, or can't change it,
  • Choose a multi-device "mesh" system instead of "tri-band" AC5300/5400 routers, if you have a lot of devices and a large area to cover. Tri-band products like NETGEAR's Orbi, Linksys' Velop or eero Gen 2 have better backhaul performance than dual-band systems, which is key to overall Wi-Fi system performance.
Click to expand...

Yup. My situation matches best the last paragraph. Big area, many devices, wifi is unstable. My router location is also not optimal... Its near the entrance of the apartment. Which puts it between both floors which was necessary (long story) but it would have been better for me to bring it more to the center of the apartment. But due to cabling issues, that wasn't exactly possible..


So yeah, mesh network makes sense. Due to the high amount of other wifi networks around me I expect a 4x4 would help with more frequency options.

I hear the wifi pods I talked about support dfs so that should also be good.
 
mesh is just fancy repeaters. still have repeater problems like half/bw and co-channel interference and all that... still always best to wire in APs. I recommend either Ubiquiti Unfi AP-AC-LR or Lite. can be had for 100 or less per AP. Also having too many radios in one AP isn't good either. They will still interferre and have other problems. What's better is to do smarter traffic shaping and controls, etc. Also if you got apple devices to disable most of the CTS/RTS protection stuff since the cpu overhead is much higher.
 
remixedcat said:
mesh is just fancy repeaters. still have repeater problems like half/bw and co-channel interference and all that... still always best to wire in APs. I recommend either Ubiquiti Unfi AP-AC-LR or Lite. can be had for 100 or less per AP. Also having too many radios in one AP isn't good either. They will still interferre and have oh er problems. What's better is to do smarter traffic shaping and controls, etc. Also if you got apple devices to disable most of the CTS/RTS protection stuff since the cpu overhead is much higher.
Click to expand...

I hope I won't offend you by saying I barely understood your reply

What do you mean by "half bw"? I presume half bandwidth? What causes the half bandwidth issue?

Co channel? What is it and how is it an issue?

When you say "APs"? You mean appartements?

As for what you said about Apple devices, I'll google it and probably find what you meant

OK I found what you meant with AP... Access points. So your basically suggesting I add a single AP to my main floor? Which is pretty much the same as adding another router there right? It will sorta repeat/extend the wifi signal same as a mesh network would no?

I'm kind of a noob when it comes to networking. But I'm willing to read you and read more content to understand better. I love tech knowledge
 
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Bandwidth is halfed because there's more "hops" to go thru.

Co-channel means that if two or more APs share the same channel the signal degrades.

AP = Access Points
Access points are hard wired to a switch or router. Repeaters/Mesh connects wirelessly to a router. Another reason the speeds are slower. it's like passing buckets of water up or down a mountain or hill.,
Also if anything changes on the original router the repeater loses the signal or connection and needs reconfigured, while Most APs recover on their own. Much easier.
 
I use old routers as APs with a hardwired backhaul. With most dead spots just one or two rooms even an old N router can handle it and offer close to 80 Mbps down via WiFi.
 
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So if understand you guys correctly it would be smarter to connect another router or AP upstairs using an Ethernet cable to boost my WiFi performances than using a mesh network system?

If so, why are mesh networks SOOooo popular right now?
 
Mesh networks are eaisier to use and set up but wired backhaul is better then WiFi backhaul. Also having a bunch of APs in a small space can create more issues. Two APs (I'm including the router) can pretty much cover just about most homes that don't belong on MTV cribs.

I have a Netgear nighthawk router that gives me my full 100 mbps down / 35 up on the main floor and in my basement office. It even covers the kids bedrooms. In the master bedroom I use an old Asus N600 router that has a Roku hardwired to it plus the router covers our phones and tablets in the master bedroom. All it cost me was $40 for the power line adapter set to create the backhaul since I already owned the routers.
 
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Thanks. I understand better now.

When you set up an AP like you are suggesting. Does it create a second wifi network? Or does it operate on the same one? What I mean is for instance you said you have a router (or Ap) in the master bedroom... Do your devices when you take em elsewhere in the house where the main nighthawk router is located connect manually to the nighthawk?

In other words:
Do you need to manually switch from one wifi to the other when you move around the house (considering you have 2 APs if you count the router?)

Also the mesh network I was talking about... The one from bell does NOT create a new wifi networks with a bunch of "Ext" secondary APs

They act as an extension of the main router (HH3000) from bell fibe.
 
if you have the same SSID and password they should hand over ok. depends on how good the WLAN clients are.
 
I create a new signal on a different channel. I use the same SSID name (wifi network) so the client will switch over to the strongest signal in a seamless transition. Most modern client will search for signal strength every few seconds. For example if I use the SSID name of "TPU" my laptop will use the TPU signal from the nighthawk router and hold onto it in the basement office and upstairs bedrooms but it starts to lose the signal in the master bedroom and will automatically switch over to the Asus AP "TPU" signall in the master bedroom.

I know i keep linking SNB articles but they do the best job out there explaining everything.

best way to get whole house coverage (FYI; powerline and moca adapters can handle far more bandwidth now then when the article was originally posted but all the same principles apply)
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/bas...best-way-to-get-whole-house-wireless-coverage

wif roaming and how it works

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33195-wi-fi-roaming-secrets-revealed

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/33180-how-to-fix-wi-fi-roaming
 
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remixedcat said:
mesh is just fancy repeaters. still have repeater problems like half/bw and co-channel interference and all that... still always best to wire in APs. I recommend either Ubiquiti Unfi AP-AC-LR or Lite. can be had for 100 or less per AP. Also having too many radios in one AP isn't good either. They will still interferre and have other problems. What's better is to do smarter traffic shaping and controls, etc. Also if you got apple devices to disable most of the CTS/RTS protection stuff since the cpu overhead is much higher.
Click to expand...


Whats the difference between the LR and Lite version of the Ubiquiti Unfi APs?
 
radio power
 
Why do you recommend ubiquiti specifically as a brand?

I noticed there are a bunch of other less expensive AC access points from other brands.

dirtyferret said:
I use old routers as APs with a hardwired backhaul. With most dead spots just one or two rooms even an old N router can handle it and offer close to 80 Mbps down via WiFi.
Click to expand...

Do your devices automatically switch your (improvised APs) from one router to the next?

Or y gotta do it manually?
 
Ubiquiti gives you enterprise level controls at a very low consumer price. That's why they are doing so well. Mine have been great even when the power blinks during firmware upgrade I was able to recover.
 
I've been using Ubiquiti UniFi deviceds for enterprise purposes for nearly five years now. Solid as a rock and extremely easy to manage. Also cheap, very cheap.
 
Dalkamyr said:
Why do you recommend ubiquiti specifically as a brand?

I noticed there are a bunch of other less expensive AC access points from other brands.



Do your devices automatically switch your (improvised APs) from one router to the next?

Or y gotta do it manually?
Click to expand...

My devices switch automatically.
 
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