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How can I connect a home web server directly into the main internet hub? [closed]

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vawrvawerawe

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I tried googling but due to lack of knowledge of key terms all I come up with is web hosting companies which is the opposite of what I want.

I don't want to get home business internet or go through the ISP at all.

I want to have servers at my home office and bypass everyone and get directly to the internet hub. How can I do this?

Please don't answer like why I shouldn't or alternatives. I don't care about your opinion on doing this. This question is directly asking specifically how I can connect directly to the main internet hub bypassing the third parties.

Update: Ultimately at some point I would like to expand my current web hosting company so that I don't have to rely on a web hosting company with whom to rent my server space. Presently I am renting server space from a colocation company who is connected directly to the internet hub. Basically I already cut out most of the middlemen, and now I want to cut out the last middleman.
 
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Not Going To Happen.
 
Internet Backbones :: Interconnection

You still have to deal with the transport of your data, from you to the IXP...
Then, the cost of the IXP's connection and bandwidth cost... and, so on.
Are you starting you own ISP?

Here is an example of the cost for just the IXP connection at Big Apple IXP:

Pricing:
  • 1-Gigabit Ethernet: 1.0 Gbps: $2,500 Annually. Installation $1,000.
  • 10-Gigabit Ethernet: 10 Gbps: $2,500 Annually. Installation $1,000.
  • 100-Gigabit Ethernet: 100 Gbps: $2,500 Annually. Installation $45,000.
Click to expand...

Here is a lists of IXPs: BGP: the Border Gateway Protocol
Advanced Internet Routing Resources

Internet Exchange Points
 
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95Viper said:
Internet Backbones :: Interconnection
Click to expand...

Excellent link that is very informative. Looks like the keywords here that I am looking for are "backbone provider" and "point of presence".

After reading deeply into that page I'm still having trouble understanding who exactly it is that I am buying from. It looks like of course I provide my own facilities and hardware, and buy bandwidth from the backbone in terms of in $/mbps, but I'm still not sure exactly who it is to pay, where I can go to set it up, what it entails, what the requirements are, etc.

I did find this which is interesting though: http://fibertothehome.hubersuhner.c...de-plant/Access-node-or-point-of-presence-POP
 
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In order to do what you want to do, you basically need to set up a datacenter and establish a single-home network. Viper covered the most. Your biggest obstacle will be the cost which will be astronomical for a single individual.

So, saying no is easier and probably less painful for you. Also note that this is not something a single individual can do due to the cost required. You need to pay backbones to lay cables to your location and you will be in charge of your cables. Maintaining these cables are not cheap and you will need an engineering team as well as equipment.
Additionally, you need university degree of knowledge in networking to set up your network and configure switches and routers. And those cost few grands at least. Even second hand ones will cost hundreds.

Not to mention having to become an ARIN member in order to receive IP addresses. I think IPv4 has run out in NA now. You can still lease blocks and announce them in your location but those won't be yours and the leaser can revoke them at will. IPv6 is certainly an option but it's not widespread.

All in all, no. It's not for a single individual.
 
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No is not an acceptable answer. Yes, it is possible, Yes, it is feasible, and Yes it is within the realm of reason to consider.

You said, "you'll need university level of knowledge in networking", so small-minded, university level of knowledge is cheap and easy.

You said, "thousands" as if that's a big number. It's not. To you it is because you are small-minded and inflexible. $50k, $100k, it's not beyond reason for the long run. $2-3k, that's nothing.

As far as laying cables, that really isn't a big deal, it is a one time thing, if at all. All you need is the cables to connect to the backbone. We're not running a residential internet service!

Can't stand naysayers with small minds and small imaginations. Moving on and hoping for an actual answer to my question...
 
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Belittling others will not get you anywhere on here. Responses like that to others will make your threads become more vacant and answer-less. Food for thought.

Honestly it sounds like you got some answers, and they all point to you pushing more on researching what it will take to connect to an IXP in your area, not sure how much you expect to get from a tech forum that doesn't focus on users becoming an ISP?

As said before, you should contact an IXP to see what kind of deployment options you can have at your current location(s), I am sure for the right price they will have some options, especially if your area has good infrastructure in place, and with so many areas receiving fiber I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to pay for your own direct piece of the pie.

All these ISP and communications companies start somewhere. Maybe if you do some snooping or can rub elbows with a higher level engineer at your CoLo, you might be able to get some info on where they get their service from. Ultimately, you will have a middle man providing you service between you and the Internet. Unless you invest in your own infrastructure, which is totally possible..probably not for 50k or 100k, but still, if you can find a way to finance it, you could totally make it happen.

There's also the possibility of the hot air balloon ISP's, this might be your ticket as well...get into this market while its new, and if it "takes off" you might gain enough pull to get into being a more realistic service provider with fewer middle-men so to speak.

Opportunities await. The question is, what is your next move?

Have you researched IPX options in your area? What kind of funding will you have if you need to provide infrastructure and security options for the service(s) you do or plan to provide? The communications industry as a whole might be tough to get into...but if you have a drive and wallet to dig in, you'll eventually find a spot.

:toast:
 
vawrvawerawe said:
No is not an acceptable answer. Yes, it is possible, Yes, it is feasible, and Yes it is within the realm of reason to consider.

You said, "you'll need university level of knowledge in networking", so small-minded, university level of knowledge is cheap and easy.

You said, "thousands" as if that's a big number. It's not. To you it is because you are small-minded and inflexible. $50k, $100k, it's not beyond reason for the long run. $2-3k, that's nothing.

As far as laying cables, that really isn't a big deal, it is a one time thing, if at all. All you need is the cables to connect to the backbone. We're not running a residential internet service!

Can't stand naysayers with small minds and small imaginations such as yourself. Moving on and hoping for an actual answer to my question...
Click to expand...
Calling anyone "small minded" over one post on a forum is rather small minded and rude. Please have more respect for others in your future posts as not to receive any more warnings.

Thank you.
 
Offtopic: I did get valuable knowledge of this thread.

Ontopic: @vawrvawerawe I get it, you are entrepreneur and planning a new venture. I can relate to the enthusiasm, just use it wisely ;) I hope you succeed in the end. I really do.
 
What are you trying to do? If you're just trying to use a server to host your own web services than going thru a business class ISP is the way to go.. This is one of those just because you can doesn't mean you should kind of things.
 
I seriously doubt that the OP has the means or the capability to setup a BGP gateway which would be required for anything setup over standard residential or business class internet. It's also going to cost a ton, we're talking about thousands a month, not hundreds for access to say, Comcast's 10Gbit optical network. What the OP is asking for is not is probably not realistic.

I'm trying to not let my prior experience with @vawrvawerawe set my tone but, it's hard with a question like this. Simply put, if it was so easy and cheap, everyone would have done it already.
vawrvawerawe said:
As far as laying cables, that really isn't a big deal, it is a one time thing, if at all. All you need is the cables to connect to the backbone. We're not running a residential internet service!
Click to expand...
There in lies the problem. Running cable to the premises could cost tens of thousands of dollars depending on your location. On top of that, you're looking at probably an equal sized bill monthly for the connectivity itself, as another member mentioned, over 2k a month for 10G for one provider. On top of that you have to mange your own BGP gateway which requires a skilled sysadmin who knows what they're doing because a company like Comcast will terminate your contract if you can't do the job correctly.

I understand the entrepreneurial spirit of the request but, to start off you should go smaller until you know for certain that you need the kind of bandwidth that ethernet solutions offer. Any business that buys way more than they needs is a business doomed to failure. You don't make money by wasting it on things you very well don't need yet.

If for some weird reason you need that kind of network access, I would say that Google compute engine already offers more than you as a private mom-and-pop store ever could.

I'm not trying to discourage you but rather inform you that your view is incredibly idealistic and probably isn't based as much in reality as it should.

You know what very well might cost more than the internet? Hiring the people who are skilled at configuring it and managing it.
 
Technically there is no "main internet hub", the "internet" is made up of backbones operated by various companies, usually telco carriers. These converge in the large exchanges like DE-CIX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_exchange_points).

All over the world you will find large datacenters, you probably are colocated in one of those. Building your own datacenter is a multi-million venture, so out of the picture.

You can contact any datacenter operator (e.g. DuPont Fabros), (not a hosting company) to rent space for your servers, and electricity. You are looking for "carrier neutral". Next you will contact various (one is too unreliable) backbone operators and setup agreements with them on what kind of link capacity you want to rent from them, dont bother asking for anything below 1 Gbps commit. At this point the complexity of BGP kicks in and you also have to talk to ARIN to get IPs allocated.

Bottom line, unless you have serious money backing and a staff of experienced people this is not gonna happen.

What exactly are you trying to do? These companies are experts and know how to solve any of your problems.
If you are looking for "best" server hosting, go talk to Softlayer, they are expensive though, still much cheaper than rolling your own. Also consider something like Amazon Cloud that already solved a lot of scalability problems for you, but comes at a higher price than baremetal servers.
 
W1zzard said:
Also consider something like Amazon Cloud that already solved a lot of scalability problems for you, but comes at a higher price than baremetal servers.
Click to expand...
Google Compute Engine has worked well for my employer. Really good price for what you get too. I would suggest GCE to anyone who needs a presence on the web, be it small or large because the price scales accordingly. That isn't to say that Amazon EC2 is bad, I just have had good experience with the Googles on this matter. Cloud storage with Google is dirt cheap too on their SAN, good performance too.

Simply put, Google will probably have more resources than you'll ever need and simplifies cost. So for a start-up, small business, or non-profit, I would say GCE is a no-brainer.

Edit: In fact I'm thinking about having a GCE server myself personally because I would be willing to absorb a 25-35 USD/mo cost for a small cloud server for various things like offsite backup and a static IP on the interwebs for anything I may want to host.
 
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@vawrvawerawe I can see some gold-plated answers here explaining exactly what you're up against. I can't see why you have a problem with that and start arguing with those that are trying to help you. I've also wondered what exactly it takes to connect directly to the internet like an ISP and now I know. :)

In short, unless you're a multi-millionnaire with deep technical knowledge of this kind of thing it's just not gonna happen. And if you were a multi-millionnaire, you wouldn't be asking such a question here ;) so no, it's not happening for you.
 
Aquinus said:
Edit: In fact I'm thinking about having a GCE server myself personally because I would be willing to absorb a 25-35 USD/mo cost for a small cloud server for various things like offsite backup and a static IP on the interwebs for anything I may want to host.
Click to expand...
Google/Amazon/Microsoft/Rackspace cloud services are always more expensive than getting a VPS or small dedicated server somewhere. webhostingtalk forums and lowendtalk are the best places to look. If you have good skills and can live with no/bad support then OVH or Online.net are the cheapest options by far. We have non-mission-critical servers at both companies, zero complaints, but I wouldn't trust TPU main servers to them, where you need fast turnaround times for network/hardware issues.
 
@ OP, if you can actually claim down and be a little more rational, there are ways. You can skip few big steps which are very cost sensitive. But the issue is that, at this point, you don't have a clue. "Taking no for answer" is the evidence of that. Reading up will not help, either. This field requires experience and years of training, and I say again, this cannot be done alone.

What you want, at this point, is setting your own datacenter. That is the only way to get what you need. The problem is that setting up datacenter is something that requires capital and it won't be one-time fee. Backbone cost monthly. Staff will cost monthly. CISCO router/switch service plan have a yearly cost. Power cost, ARIN cost, property tax, etc - you will also need your city permit to lay cables and you own engineering crew to look after the cables. Of course, you can contract the job to someone else but the cost will multiply.

But if you skip the first few steps, let's say by renting your own rack and co-lo in a datecenter, it suddenly becomes a lot cheaper. If that does not satisfy you, you can purchase a portion of a datacenter where you will have physical access to your space. This method is entirely possible by a single person and won't cost as much.

Though seriously tone your attitude down especially when you have so little idea of what you are really asking here.
 
W1zzard said:
Google/Amazon/Microsoft/Rackspace cloud services are always more expensive than getting a VPS or small dedicated server somewhere. webhostingtalk forums and lowendtalk are the best places to look. If you have good skills and can live with no/bad support then OVH or Online.net are the cheapest options by far. We have non-mission-critical servers at both companies, zero complaints, but I wouldn't trust TPU main servers to them, where you need fast turnaround times for network/hardware issues.
Click to expand...
Oh of course but my point is that it simplifies the entire process as you're not managing the cloud infrastructure yourself and that it gets you access to 1Gbps without too much effort and relatively low cost.

A 100GB of SAN storage at google costs 4 dollars a month, pair that with a small n1-standard-2 instance which is dual core and 7.5GB of memory at 7 cents an hour (assuming up 100% of the time,) is 52 dollars, so for 56 dollars you have a presence on the web and 100GB of storage. Throw in an extra 10 dollars for things like static IP, zone ingress, egress, and misc and you have basically 65 dollars a month for a reliable server. You could half all of the specs on the VM which cost half as much at 26 dollars.

My simple point is that Google offers a platform that enables you to scales quickly from cheap to expensive without having to manage the infrastructure yourself. I'm not saying that hosting it yourself isn't worth it, I'm just saying from a management and reliability perspective, GCE offers a good product.

Edit: @W1zzard think HA. You could use GCE servers to spin up more web front-ends at the busiest times of the day and kill them at low usage hours. If you're out of capacity, spinning up another instance is quick.
 
Aquinus said:
Oh of course but my point is that it simplifies the entire process as you're not managing the cloud infrastructure yourself and that it gets you access to 1Gbps without too much effort and relatively low cost.

A 100GB of SAN storage at google costs 4 dollars a month, pair that with a small n1-standard-2 instance which is dual core and 7.5GB of memory at 7 cents an hour (assuming up 100% of the time,) is 52 dollars, so for 56 dollars you have a presence on the web and 100GB of storage. Throw in an extra 10 dollars for things like static IP, zone ingress, egress, and misc and you have basically 65 dollars a month for a reliable server. You could half all of the specs on the VM which cost half as much at 26 dollars.

My simple point is that Google offers a platform that enables you to scales quickly from cheap to expensive without having to manage the infrastructure yourself. I'm not saying that hosting it yourself isn't worth it, I'm just saying from a management and reliability perspective, GCE offers a good product.

Edit: @W1zzard think HA. You could use GCE servers to spin up more web front-ends at the busiest times of the day and kill them at low usage hours. If you're out of capacity, spinning up another instance is quick.
Click to expand...

thanks, i only read the first 5 words on all the other posts, that was enough to see they did not answer my question and I don't have the time to be berates by random people on the internet.

Anyway I read your response, but no i don't need the google engine thing, I already have servers in a datacenter each with 4x 8-core processors, 512gb (gigabytes not mb) ram, and 10tb of storage. moreover i can only use dedicated servers due to sensitive customer data.

If people actually read my post and answered and followed direction then this thread wouldn't be so convoluted. Now I have to ignore a bunch of people to clean up this thread.

(edit: can't block erocker, it's profile goes to an error page.)
 
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vawrvawerawe said:
you can close thread, don't have the time to sort through useless replies trying to find something useful, unsubscribing from thread.
Click to expand...
What a great attitude. :rolleyes:
 
LOL @vawrvawerawe you have no idea what you are doing or talking about and what you have in processing power is not nearly enough of what most companys use today.... You need to understand how the internet works before you can ask such a question...
 
vawrvawerawe said:
you can close thread, don't have the time to sort through useless replies trying to find something useful, unsubscribing from thread.
Click to expand...

Don't have that attitude... Don't get pissed off... You do have people trying to help. Even the ones who answers you do not like are just trying to help in their own way.
You need to remember it is the internet and you have trolls, flame baiters, morons, know-it-alls... but, really don't know jack, etc. on the web... ignore them like you ignore the other minuscule things in the world, like, dust, insects, pollen, etc.
They will tire of not being able to bother you and it will bother them more.

Use the info you want and discard the rest as nada.
It is all in your frame of mind.
Belittling them will just feed 'em.

Just my opinion/advice.
 
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