How long can the laptop VRAM last operating under high temperature?

[Dr. Dro]

You clearly make do with a 13980HX and 4080M (which is what, 3070 perf?), so not sure why you would necessarily need a 13900K+4070 Ti as a reference. Yes, prices suck, but that's not making it easy for yourself.

Make do is an understatement, that laptop is ridiculously high spec, no wonder it's so expensive.

4080M an AD104 with 58 out of the 60 units enabled (4070 Ti has all 60), so I suppose a comparison is somewhat valid. 4090M is basically a straight port of the AD103 desktop 4080 with the same unit count and same memory configuration, just limited to 150W or so.

 

[tabascosauz]

Make do is an understatement, that laptop is ridiculously high spec, no wonder it's so expensive.

4080M an AD104 with 58 out of the 60 units enabled (4070 Ti has all 60), so I suppose a comparison is somewhat valid. 4090M is basically a straight port of the AD103 desktop 4080 with the same unit count and same memory configuration, just limited to 150W or so.

Okay, so around 3080 performance under ideal circumstances.

Aside from the repaste (who knows, maybe the stock paste application is pretty bad for the G6 and there are gains to be made), there's not much else to say.

iirc the only other example of 20Gbps GDDR6 we have right now are the two Navi31 cards, and they run scorching hot. Not sure if the G16 uses 16Gbps or 20Gbps packages for its 4080M, but if it's the latter then there doesn't seem to be any surprises (subpar VRAM cooling setup + 20Gbps G6).

 

[EsliteMoby]

You could just try a repaste with K5 Pro or similar. It's not a vapor chamber setup unlike some other recent ROG laptops so I don't think there is a warranty void sticker from taking off the cooling solution. G16 has a third fan in close proximity to the VRAM but the single C-shaped heatpipe covering the VRAM doesn't look like it's connected to the main CPU-GPU cooling solution (or anything else for that matter). Which performance/fan profile are you running?

This laptop is using liquid metal for both CPU/GPU. Taking out the heatsink means I need to repaste the LM as well which is a bit perplexing for me.

Update. I was running the laptop using Ultimate mode (dGPU only) alongside turbo profile with +200 core and +300 mem offset in Armory Crate. I changed to Standard mode (MSHybrid) with the performance profile that ASUS recommended drops the peak VRAM temp to 92 degrees. Still a bit high. I'm using ThrottleStop to undervolt my CPU now and will undervolt my GPU core as well and see if I can get a better VRAM temp.

You clearly make do with a 13980HX and 4080M (which is what, 3070 perf?), so not sure why you would necessarily need a 13900K+4070 Ti as a reference. Yes, prices suck, but that's not making it easy for yourself.

I believe the 4080M is closer to the desktop 3080 Ti performance.

 

[R0H1T]

If you don't count the fake frames it's slower, much slower in fact ~ NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 Mobile Specs

Assuming you meant the full fat 3080Ti not the mobile variant.

 

[JustBenching]

I recently purchased this Rog Strix G16 laptop. After playing several hours of Dying Light 2 while my GPU temperature mostly hovers around low 70, my VRAM temperature heats up to 97 degrees which seems concerning to me. Is it alright if I leave it on like this or do I need to do something about it? I'm using GPU-Z running in the background to monitor my VRAM temp btw.

Don't pay attention, it's absolutely fine. You can lower the power draw of your card if you are concerned with the temps.

Just for reference, 3090s could hit up to 115c. On a DESKTOP. The one they are telling you to get cause laptops get too hot and cant run games

 

[tabascosauz]

This laptop is using liquid metal for both CPU/GPU. Taking out the heatsink means I need to repaste the LM as well which is a bit perplexing for me.

Update. I was running the laptop using Ultimate mode (dGPU only) alongside turbo profile with +200 core and +300 mem offset in Armory Crate. I changed to Standard mode (MSHybrid) with the performance profile that ASUS recommended drops the peak VRAM temp to 92 degrees. Still a bit high. I'm using ThrottleStop to undervolt my CPU now and will undervolt my GPU core as well and see if I can get a better VRAM temp.

I believe the 4080M is closer to the desktop 3080 Ti performance.

If you can verify the G16 uses 20Gbps GDDR6, then even in the high 90s I wouldn't be worried judging from how it behaves similarly on Navi31. 92c is fine, I highly doubt it's gonna go lower. +300MHz VRAM OC sounds like it explains the higher temps... Just leave it alone. 4070 Ti doesn't scale on mem OC, neither should the cut down 4080M that's based on same GPU.

If and only if you just want to be adventurous...

Removing the LM takes a bit of time but Asus tapes off the surrounding substrate on LM laptops so you just gotta take it slow and steady, not nearly as much risk.

Most of the G14 community recommends just using PTM7950 for CPU/GPU and K5 Pro for inductors/DrMOS. Even though Asus uses an automated application process now the LM consistency leaves a lot to be desired and longevity unpredictable. I think most report comparable or better temps compared to stock LM, though for power draw that high 13980HX I'm not sure it will be as positive.

 

[Frick]

Yes, really. And if you read through what I actually said, and what others have said, you would learn the facts. BTW, I was not the first in this thread to suggest getting a PC for gaming. And for sure, creating docs and giving presentations is exactly one of, if not the primary reason ""luggables" then laptops were created long ago.


ROTFL

Yeah, don't listen to the experienced people. They are right, but don't listen to them anyway.

Laptops are "ok"? LOL Yep, "ok" computers make great gaming rigs and desktop replacements. How do we know? Because Frick says so.
Just to add, if you can find a truly portable laptop that allows users to play all the latest games at maximum FPS without throttling, then great. But that surely is the exception, not the norm.

So you missed "most of of them are more or less bad in different ways". And most of my points.

Fine.

Anything that runs on batteries is a toy.

Fine.

 

[emothxughts]

I recently purchased this Rog Strix G16 laptop. After playing several hours of Dying Light 2 while my GPU temperature mostly hovers around low 70, my VRAM temperature heats up to 97 degrees which seems concerning to me. Is it alright if I leave it on like this or do I need to do something about it? I'm using GPU-Z running in the background to monitor my VRAM temp btw.

Yea, laptops, especially gaming laptops, tend to run that hot due to needing to pack lots of computing power into a thin enclosure, and some sacrifices need to be made, specifically cooling.

Anyway, aside from that unfortunate fact and the anti gaming laptop gang here, you should install MSI Afterburner and then use that to undervolt your laptop's GPU, keeping the GPU'S performance more or less the same while running cooler. I forgot the specifics of how I undervolted my (desktop) GPU, but you should be able to find a guide for your GPU on Youtube.

 

[kurosagi01]

Things you can try from my own experience in using a laptop for gaming with my Zephyrus G14.
-You can raise the laptop up from it's original feet to reduce the temps down by 2-3c
-A USB powered laptop cooler will probably net you another 5c all-round.
-Undervolting will net you another 3-5c all-round
-I have not tried this cooler yet, but I have heard the IET GT500 can reduce the overal temps down by 15-20c, this cooler requires power from a power outlet

 

[Veseleil]

Find a compatible cooling pad, as someone already mentioned. If not concerned about warranty, you should replace thermal pads, paste and maybe cut a bigger vent holes if it's possible and provides any gains.
Undervolt everything you can, underclock might do wonders as well.
Ignore the philosophers. Getting "laptop suck for gaming" bs orchestra as a response to a simple question is fascinating behaviour to observe though.

 

[dgianstefani]

When I had a Razer Blade with similar high performance parts, my temps weren't hitting 97°C like yours at stock (large vapour chamber though and my LM application was done by me, and also replaced the pads so who knows), but I still got a laptop stand and fixed a standard 120mm PC fan to it blowing air directly onto the bottom of the laptop, which let that fan do most of the work, and the laptop fans could relax a bit, temps dropped from around 75-80 to around 70, while also being quieter.

Quite a nice bit of kit, aluminium unibody with an inbuilt dock at the back.

Getting one even without the fan would be helpful, as the air intakes will have more room to breathe.

 

[Lei]

Okay, so around 3080 performance under ideal circumstances.

Here's 60% difference in 4090:

80% difference @2k 4080 Hogwarts Legacy

4080 desktop 70% better than mobile in Witcher 3 @2k
A Plague Tale Ratatouille 48%
Forza 140%
Valhalla 32%

4080 desktop is 60% better than 4070 desktop in Witcher @2k
So a mobile 4080 is less performant than desktop 4070

Cyberpunk : 4080 = 4070+51% ..... 4080 = 4080m+38%
4080m=4070+13%

4080=4070ti+22%
4080m=4070ti-16%


Warhammer :
4080=4080m+71%
4080=4070+67%
4080m=4070-4%

4080=4070ti+31%
4080m=4070ti-40%


Dying light:
4080=4080m+39%
4080=4070+61%
4080m=4070+22%

4080=4070ti+27%
4080m=4070ti-12%

Shadow of TR:
4080=4080m+40%
4080=4070+58%
4080m=4070+18%

4080=4070ti+20%
4080m=4070ti-20%


RDR
4080=4080m+38%
4080=4070+48%
4080m=4070+10%

4080=4070ti+26%
4080m=4070ti-12%


On average 4080m is 16% slower than 4070ti

 

[dgianstefani]

I certainly sympathasize but the key word in this statement is "advertised". In other words, that is marketing "hype". There just is no such thing as a good gaming laptop (or desktop replacement). And if given a little thought, one can realize this makes total sense.

Consider this. Laptop manufacturers can pack the horsepower of a PC into one of those tiny, extremely thin laptop cases, but the not cooling required of gaming rigs. Gaming is just about the most demanding task we can ask of any computer. Even quality mid and full-size tower cases, with their massive case fan capabilities and support for HUGE CPU cooling solutions, are challenged to keep the innards properly cooled. Laptops are really designed for road warriors, students and others who who require mobile computers to create Word documents and give Power Point presentations. They are compact devices that, due to the Laws of Physics and thermodynamics, are simply incapable of providing the necessary cooling needed for a gaming machine.


It certainly is PR and brainwash, but it is way beyond, and existed centuries before the "ROG" culture. It is the culture and engrained mindset of every marketing weenie who ever existed. And sadly, it is perfectly legal - when worded carefully. In business law it is called 'marketing "fluff".'

***

@EsliteMoby - You don't mention your CPU temps, how are they? Does your system throttle back it hits these temps? You asked,


If anyone could accurately predict that, they would quickly become zillionaires. "IF" those temps are still "comfortably" within the manufacture's specs for the "normal" operating temperature range, the VRAM should not fail prematurely (or before the warranty runs out! ). But if those temps routinely sit near or above the published specs, you should expect they will fail prematurely as those temps will increase aging.

Are the vents, accessible cavities and bays clean of heat trapping dust? If comfortable opening the case a little more, is the interior clean of heat trapping dust? Beyond that, I agree with eidairaman1 and consider getting a decent cooling pad. I recommend the use of a cooling pad with its own external power supply so you don’t put more strain on the laptop, causing it to generate even more heat. But sadly, pads with external power supplies are getting harder to find. So if the pad runs off USB power only, I recommend using a USB Wall Adapter to power the pad whenever possible.

When home, you could try blasting a desk fan across it.

Other than that, my best advice again echos that of eidairaman1 and I recommend a quality PC when at home for your gaming and just use the laptop for less demanding tasks while you are mobile.

Wendell (and many others) would disagree.

 

[Bill_Bright]

@Bill_Bright can we use a VR headset as monitor. If portability and gaming is in mind?

My experience with VR headsets is limited but I don't think it would work very well - at least not for me. I for one am a touch typist - 99% of the time. This means the vast majority of the time, I don't need to look at the keyboard. But I often do for special characters, F-keys, and several other keys. For those who need to look at the keyboard more often, I think it would be a big problem.

Wendell (and many others) would disagree.

And if they are that willing to compromise their expectations, then that's fine. I am NOT going to dispute their personal "opinions". And for sure, they can still be fully immersed in their games, and fully entertained - which is the point of gaming, right?

But those personal opinions do NOT jive with the technical facts that affect the performance and cooling of power hungry, heat generating electronics jammed into tiny cases - the points I am debating.

There is no denying that is a nice laptop. And the battery runtime is phenomenal. But it is still a tiny, thin computer with a tiny 240W PSU, and tiny 14 inch monitor. And while it has decent performance when plugged in, that is degraded, in some cases significantly (Excel, for example) when on battery.

Of course, a $2,600 laptop will outperform a $1000 desktop. But will a $2600 laptop outperform a $2600 PC? Not likely. Can you upgrade the laptop? That is, can you swap out the GPU, CPU, double the RAM, add another drive? Maybe. But if possible, the options will be very limited. Can you upgrade the motherboard? Nope. Integrated monitor? Nope. Speakers? Nope. Laptops, almost by definition, are proprietary devices.

But a PC (well, a custom, home built PC - that is, not a proprietary factory made PC) allows for nearly infinite upgrade options. The PC is able to "evolve through years generational and performance upgrades.

Sure, you can attach a nice 27" or 32" monitor and full size, mechanical gaming keyboard, and a real gaming mouse to the laptop. But then it is no longer a portable computer. And then there's still the tiny case with limited cooling capacities. Those fans are small in comparison and very thin. Therefore, they must spin considerably faster to move the same amount of air. Ever heard a quiet "gaming laptop" when it is being tasked?

So again, it boils down to one's personal expectations. But please! Don't pretend, as classes of computers, the laptop and PC offer equal high-end performance.

Gaming Laptop vs. Gaming Desktop: The Classic Dilemma - IGN

Gaming laptops and desktops seem to offer similar performance at a glance. They have similar processors and discrete graphics. Most also ship with similar amounts of RAM and storage. Many gamers assume a PC with an AMD Ryzen 7 processor and Nvidia RTX 3070 graphics will perform roughly the same whether it’s a laptop or desktop.

In fact, desktops typically outperform laptops in all demanding situations. This includes not only gaming, but tasks like video editing and AI image processing. But if a gaming laptop and desktop can equip the same hardware, why don’t they have the same performance?

The answer is simple: gaming laptops and desktops don’t really use the same hardware (at least when it comes to the processor and discrete graphics).

In most cases, a gaming desktop is the better choice. Gaming desktops provide more bang for your buck, are less expensive to upgrade and repair, and last longer before they go obsolete.

The wildcard is portability.

Gaming Desktop vs. Gaming Laptop: Which Is Better For You? | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

A gaming desktop is still the most powerful, upgradeable, and, in some ways, affordable way to play games on a PC. You can use full-sized desktop components, swap out almost anything, and, if you build it, save some money.

Bottom line - if mobility is requirement or the top priority, no question, a laptop is the way to go. But if the "best" gaming performance, or the "best" "workstation" task performance is the top priority, a PC in a quality mid or full tower case is the only way to go. That is NOT my opinion - that is just the technical facts.

 

[dgianstefani]

My experience with VR headsets is limited but I don't think it would work very well - at least not for me. I for one am a touch typist - 99% of the time. This means the vast majority of the time, I don't need to look at the keyboard. But I often do for special characters, F-keys, and several other keys. For those who need to look at the keyboard more often, I think it would be a big problem.


And if they are that willing to compromise their expectations, then that's fine. I am NOT going to dispute their personal "opinions". And for sure, they can still be fully immersed in their games, and fully entertained - which is the point of gaming, right?

But those personal opinions do NOT jive with the technical facts that affect the performance and cooling of power hungry, heat generating electronics jammed into tiny cases - the points I am debating.

There is no denying that is a nice laptop. And the battery runtime is phenomenal. But it is still a tiny, thin computer with a tiny 240W PSU, and tiny 14 inch monitor. And while it has decent performance when plugged in, that is degraded, in some cases significantly (Excel, for example) when on battery.

Of course, a $2,600 laptop will outperform a $1000 desktop. But will a $2600 laptop outperform a $2600 PC? Not likely. Can you upgrade the laptop? That is, can you swap out the GPU, CPU, double the RAM, add another drive? Maybe. But if possible, the options will be very limited. Can you upgrade the motherboard? Nope. Integrated monitor? Nope. Speakers? Nope. Laptops, almost by definition, are proprietary devices.

But a PC (well, a custom, home built PC - that is, not a proprietary factory made PC) allows for nearly infinite upgrade options. The PC is able to "evolve through years generational and performance upgrades.

Sure, you can attach a nice 27" or 32" monitor and full size, mechanical gaming keyboard, and a real gaming mouse to the laptop. But then it is no longer a portable computer. And then there's still the tiny case with limited cooling capacities. Those fans are small in comparison and very thin. Therefore, they must spin considerably faster to move the same amount of air. Ever heard a quiet "gaming laptop" when it is being tasked?

So again, it boils down to one's personal expectations. But please! Don't pretend, as classes of computers, the laptop and PC offer equal high-end performance.

Gaming Laptop vs. Gaming Desktop: The Classic Dilemma - IGN




Gaming Desktop vs. Gaming Laptop: Which Is Better For You? | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)


Bottom line - if mobility is requirement or the top priority, no question, a laptop is the way to go. But if the "best" gaming performance, or the "best" "workstation" task performance is the top priority, a PC in a quality mid or full tower case is the only way to go. That is NOT my opinion - that is just the technical facts.

That's not what you were asserting though was it?

They are compact devices that, due to the Laws of Physics and thermodynamics, are simply incapable of providing the necessary cooling needed for a gaming machine.

Laptops can game perfectly fine, with cooling that is more than at the "necessary" level, without being obnoxiously loud either.

Obviously a $2500 laptop won't be as fast as a $2500 desktop, but that's fine.

A good rule of thumb is a current generation top tier laptop can perform about as well as a previous generation top tier desktop. The fact they can do that while being smaller than just the side panel of one of those desktops is the USP.

Overclocked Nvidia mobile RTX 4090 GPU can beat even a desktop RTX 3090 Ti

Although the new mobile RTX 4090 GPU is still limited to 175 W TGP, it still manages to score slightly more points in 3DMar's Time Spy test over the 400+ W RTX 3090 Ti with a bit of tinkering. The generational leap in efficiency is quite astounding thanks to the jump from 8 nm to 4 nm transistors.

www.notebookcheck.net

Framework with their new 16" should eliminate one of the main flaws of gaming laptops, which is upgradability/continuity, bringing it to a similar level as desktops.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It is a clarification of what I initially asserted. Yes, I should have stated initially that I was talking about the two classes of computers. My bad. Sorry for not being more specific from the start.

Framework with their new 16" should eliminate one of the main flaws of gaming laptops, which is upgradability/continuity, bringing it to a similar level as desktops.

No, sorry. That will never happen as long as there remains no ATX Form Factor type standard for laptops. Laptop will always remain highly proprietary with very limited upgrade options.

Look, I get that some simply prefer laptops. And that's okay. But this is not politics or religion. For sure, laptops provide several advantages and conveniences PCs can't pretend to match. PC enthusiasts must accept that. But there are some advantages to PCs laptops cannot match too - and laptop enthusiasts need to accept that in return.

 

[Frick]

And for sure, they can still be fully immersed in their games, and fully entertained - which is the point of gaming, right?

No but you said "Laptops are really designed for road warriors, students and others who who require mobile computers to create Word documents and give Power Point presentations." No room for gaming there buddy. Not CAD wither, or rendering.

 

[Bill_Bright]

No but you said "Laptops are really designed for road warriors, students and others who who require mobile computers to create Word documents and give Power Point presentations." No room for gaming there buddy. Not CAD wither, or rendering.

I stand by that. Nobody "requires" a mobile computer to "play" games. And I really cannot think of a reason someone performing CAE/CAD tasks would need a mobile computer either, except if their job otherwise required them to be road warriors too.

And what do you mean, "No"? The point of gaming is NOT to be entertained? Unless that is how you earn your living, gaming is an form of entertainment.

 

[Calenhad]

Can we all just agree that mr Bill is still stuck in his '00s mindset of what a laptop is, and move back to the question at hand? He is also a great source for walls of text and lots of hot smoke to keep you warm in cold nights, but I digress. And philosophical musings about what a laptop should or should not be is rather outside the topic of this thread anyways.

The vram temperature is fine, it is in the expected temperature range for a laptop. It would be ideal if it was lower, but you bought the wrong product if you wanted low temperatures. Any modern gaming laptop will boost until it is toasty and stay there. This is by design. If the laptop is working as intended, meaning not crashing or showing artifacts, then you should not worry about this. Contrary to the belief of several posters here, Asus do have a certain understanding of what it takes to build a working laptop. And in this case it does not sound like you are in the 0.x% range who got a defective product from the factory.

 

[JustBenching]

I'm enoying more playing on my g14 than my 12900k + 4090 desktop, so there is that

 

[Bill_Bright]

Can we all just agree that mr Bill is still stuck in his '00s mindset of what a laptop is

LOL

Please note that no less than 4 other posters in this thread commented before me that laptops and gaming are not meant for each other. So it is interesting how you decided to join this thread by starting out criticizing only me.

My decades as a formally trained electronics technician just keeps me from being in denial when it comes to hardware controversies and it ensures I don't automatically accept marketing "hype" as the Gospel truth. Until Man is able to produce electronics with 100% power efficiencies, wasted power in the form of heat will always remain a problem. And extracting that heat from tiny places will always be a limiting factor.

Contrary to the belief of several posters here, Asus do have a certain understanding of what it takes to build a working laptop.

Oh? Where did anyone suggest ASUS does not have such an understanding?

 

[sLowEnd]

Laptops can serve as desktop replacements just fine if your needs and expectations fit.

The laptop I used during my undergrad wasn't a blazing fast thing by any stretch of the imagination (i5 4200M, GTX 765m), but I adjusted the scope of my gaming to fit. (Was playing mostly Overwatch, FFXIV, and WoT at the time on med-low.) I had no issue doing assignments on it. Matlab, R, Excel...etc. ran without fuss.

I am back on a desktop now, of course, but that's because I don't need the portability of the laptop anymore and I enjoy the building process and customizability aspect of it. I'm not going to pretend that the laptop wasn't able to do what it needed to do though.

 

[Psychoholic]

To answer OP question those temps are within spec, VRAM runs hot on desktop GPUs also.

For what its worth, i have actually been gaming on my laptop lately more often than my main PC in my system specs and it handles it flawlessly.. the 4080M helps though, its also docked with external display, keyboard, monitors, etc.

Nice to have the portability when needed with it.

 

[EsliteMoby]

When I had a Razer Blade with similar high performance parts, my temps weren't hitting 97°C like yours at stock (large vapour chamber though and my LM application was done by me, and also replaced the pads so who knows), but I still got a laptop stand and fixed a standard 120mm PC fan to it blowing air directly onto the bottom of the laptop, which let that fan do most of the work, and the laptop fans could relax a bit, temps dropped from around 75-80 to around 70, while also being quieter.

Is 75-80 your VRAM temp after hours of heavy gaming? Some guys over at Reddit have the same problem on their high-end 4080/4090 Razor Blade and Lenovo Legion where the VRAM temp would heat up to 95-100 during GPU heavy load.

My GPU temp is mostly fine. The thing is the VRAM is always 12-16 degrees higher than my GPU core temp whether load or idle. I bought a 5-fan cooling pad but it doesn't seem to make that much difference compares to just lifting up my laptop for better airflow.

 

[sLowEnd]

Is 75-80 your VRAM temp after hours of heavy gaming? Some guys over at Reddit have the same problem on their high-end 4080/4090 Razor Blade and Lenovo Legion where the VRAM temp would heat up to 95-100 during GPU heavy load.

My GPU temp is mostly fine. The thing is the VRAM is always 12-16 degrees higher than my GPU core temp whether load or idle. I bought a 5-fan cooling pad but it doesn't seem to make that much difference compares to just lifting up my laptop for better airflow.

Your 97c is still technically safe, but it's very close to tjmax. Micron specifies tjmax for their GDDR6 to be 100c.

(Under technical notes, for anyone curious:

https://www.micron.com/products/ultra-bandwidth-solutions/gddr6/part-catalog/mt61k512m32kpa-14)

A lot of laptops these days have fan profiles that run very close to safe limits, so I wouldn't be too concerned unless your fans are already maxing out and have no further cooling headroom.