d44ve
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2007
- Messages
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Processor | Intel E6600 @ 4.2GHZ Wo0t! |
---|---|
Motherboard | ASUS Striker Extreme & eVGA 680i A1 |
Cooling | Phase Change !! |
Memory | OCZ SLI 1066MHZ (2GB) |
Video Card(s) | EVGA 8800 GTX |
Storage | Western Digital 320 GB |
Case | Antec 900 |
Power Supply | Lian-Li V2000 |
Software | Vista Ultimate |
Now I didnt write this... just found this on another board. I thought it had some great information in it.
I almost didnt want to post this just because I know there will be someone out there saying how bad nVidia is and how great ATi is.
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT. I am just trying to help out.
Well after a lot of reading, trying, assembling and disassembling ive come to find the main reason of why we are all seeing BSODS on your cards, the main reason is not one but a combination of many factors which i will explain below, I can almost guarantee you that if you follow the instructions ill post here, you will solve your BSOD problem.
Since I got tired of having to look at a billion pages to find this information i decided to put it all in a nice troubleshooting list for everyone to follow, starting with the most common general problem down to the most specific based on what ive seen here and what ive personally tested.
Nature/Origin of the problem:
Just telling you how to fix it would be pointless, so ill try to dig in more as in why this problem is happening and whats up with the research behind this whole post.
After much testing I've come the same conclusion as a guy named dubbo07 on these forums, that the 8800GTX/GTS does not interface well with any high speed memory that uses the high performance Micron D9 chips and/or similar specs chips. Main reason? Timing and Voltages, not necesarily the Rams, its the entire board's, Graphics applications constantly store and read data from the video memory and system memory, the video driver attempts to access the system memory randomly for what ever reason and does this in a way most ram chips dont like, and BAM, hardware crash "insert 10 diff blue screen errors here" messages, ranging from IRQ, to Page fault and flat out hang.
So after reading a bit people had no clue WTF was causing this i decided to grab the 10 8800GTX Cards i had here from BFG. XFX. EVGA you name it, Air cooled, water cooled, overclocked, stock etc. and give them a spin, to try to find out what in hell is causing this, i was using cloned windows installations, so to avoid actual drivers being the cause.
The 10 test systems were as follows:
Intel D975XBX2 Bad Axe 2 Motherboards
8800GTX 768MB Random Brands and Cooling Systems but same overall card chip
E6600 Conroes 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo Retail
1,2,4 GB Ram Configs using Kingston PC6400 DDR2 HyperX Ram in 1 2 4 stick configs
Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro Gamer Series Audio and onboard Sygmatel Audio
Hiper Type R 580W Modular PSU - $85 buck PSU (which isnt very uber, if this thing could run it any can)
I tried every single config I could, and I came up with This troubleshooting list on some machines some points fixed some of the bsods, on others the others fixed it, eventually they all got fixed, it wasnt one thing but multiple things that were causing the bsods.
Heres the list be sure to try it from top to bottom.
1: Heat
Cause:
Nvidia "Nerfed" the fan control speed and its now SET at 60% fixed speed and WILL NOT MOVE
How to fix?:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=163
Download Rivatuner from guru3d.com and hard overide the NVidia fan control to set it to 100% at all times, yes its noisy but even at 100% damn thing wont go under 65c IMHO still to hot but def better than 100+ water boiling.
Extra info on the problem:
Nvidia says the GPU is fine up to 147celcius, IMHO, i dont care what Nvidia says, if i cant handle it with my hands, i dont want it inside my case, and since they "decided" to "nerf" the fan controller the card runs hotter than ever, this is usually the most common cause for the "it hangs every 30 mins or so of gaming" problem, if its not the actual nvidia card overheating thats causing the hang its somethign else in your board locking up due to the nvidia card overheating it way over its intended heat range, namely your PCI-E controller, chipset or some other circuit getting 100c air being blown direcly over itand making IT lock up.
2SU Wiring
Cause:
Massive flat out raw power draw from this card under heavy load
How to fix?:
Give Your Majesty its own personal rails for its sole and exclusive use, do not let any other "peasants" get near its personal rails.
Extra info on the problem:
This card is insane, it REQUIRES 2 full rails ONLY for itself. so make sure the 2 rails you are connecting to the cards power plugs are 100% independent of each other and do NOT use rails with other devices in them, the cables have to be straight PSU to Vid card and thats it nothing else, i put 3 rails SPECIFICALLY for the card on mine and works fine.
3river
Cause:
Nvidia needs to learn to play and learn to code when it comes to drivers
How to fix?:
Get the new beta driver
ForceWare 160.03 (Yes 160.03)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1633
Extra info on the problem:
Nvidia loves to keep good stuff unavailable and make us hate it even more, somehow guru3d got a hold of the 160.03 leaked beta drivers and modded them SPECIFICALLY to fix most BSODS, by changing the way it reads and writes to system memory, install these and be happy ever after, no more BSODS.
4: Windows Settings
Multisampling off
Cause:
No idea, im guessing its related to how system memory is read when this setting is on.
How to fix:
Turn off Multisampling, it is said BSODs stop in most situations when this is turned off
5: IRQ Conflicts
Cause:
Windows is retarded, Plug and Play Bios are retarded, and seems none of them can figure out that putting a MONSTER in a jail cell with a puny man both sharing the same toilet, wont end up nicely.
How to fix":
1:Reset your BIOS to clear the PnP PCI IRQ assignment tables and force it to reassign new ones.
2:Change the "Offending" card from slot and pray it gets assigned a new IRQ (im saying offending because HOW DARE HE use up the 8800's personal IRQ, its blasphemy)
3:Slap it into the last PCI slot, with luck your board is one of those "Last PCI slot has no IRQ set or will get a personal IRQ" and youll be in buisness.
3isable it. Give up, The 8800 is to powerfull, what ever is sharing the interrupt with the 8800 has to die, Disable it and let Ms 8800 have its own IRQ at the cost of killing what ever else was there in the first place, if you dont like this you can thank Mr Bill Gates for it.
Extra info on the Problem:
I wonder when SOMEONE will come up with a MANUAL way to set interrupts instead of this Jack-in-the-Box rat suprize way of doing it. (NO, the "Properties" way of doing it stopped working back in 1998 and ISA card slots, in case you hadnt noticed so please stop saying theres a "way" to manually set interrupts when there CLEARLY isnt, if there was one i think wed know about it already and wouldnt be asking for one)
6: Audigy X-fi,
Cause:
Theres SOMETHING in the way the X-Fi reads memory that the 8800 doesnt like.. it feels like it has to compete so it constantly takes jabs at the X-fi untill they both crash. add that to the X-fi being just as/or worse than/ the 8800 when it comes to IRQ assignment and you got a helluva mix
How to fix:
Theres 3 ways to fix this:
1: Remove it, unless you REAAAAAALLY need/want your X-fi and are willing to spend the next 3 days making it work then proceed with step 2 otherwise just remove it right now and rid urself of a pain.
2: Change it from PCI Slot untill it hits an IRQ that is not as critical and disable what ever is sharing an IRQ with it.
2: Stick in last slot and pray. it MAY work... if it doesnt, go back to step 1
Extra info on the problem:
Creative is as paranoid as the RIAA with its software and licenses and as bad at making drivers as Nvidia and/or ATI, what do you get when you combine both? you dont wanna know.
7: PCI-E 16x 75w+ power drain
Cause:
your board doesnt support heavy draw cards on its PCI-E Bus
How to fix:
Get a new Board
Extra info on the problem:
Some boards got spare juice connectors on them to power the extra draw some cards generate on the PCI-E slots, if yours has this, use it.
8: Stick of RAM Removal
Cause:
Something with the memory interface doesnt work right with the 8800 drivers
How to Fix:
Remove a stick of ram or move it to the oposite channel to force the computer into Single Channel mode.
Extra info on the problem:
By removing a stick of RAM and "downgrading" the machine to Single channel instead of dual channel, forces the 8800 to "calm down" and "play fair" when it reads the system memory bus so BSODS magially stop when the 8800 stops being a pain with the other peripherals
9: PCI-E Slot
Cause:
The PCI-E Slot you are plugging it in either is not 16X or the board isnt making it work properly
How to fix:
Change the card from slot into a secondary or slave slot and see if it works there.
10: Bios Updates
Cause:
Crappy Bios releases (See Bad Axe 2 Original Bios or Asus Stryker Original Bios) make the computer not know WTF to do with the 8800 or how to even read memory properly
How to fix:
Install your motherboards latest Bios.
Extra info on the problem:
When my board came out the damn thing couldnt even boot up properly, it had all kinds of errors, with the new BIOS its working fine, hell the Asus striker a friend had wouldnt even load up vista because it refused to properly detect the DRAMM Timings of its very expensive ram causing it to lock up so always keep your bios up to date, Motherboard manufacturers, release hardware first and suport later so dont expect stuff to work right out of the box
11: DRAMM Timing/Voltage
Cause:
The 8800 driver has a Paris Hilton complex, in which it believes it owns the computer and all its resources, and it can take what ever it wants without needing to ask.
How to Fix?:
Increase your Dram Voltage to 2.1 Volts and 5-5-5-15 (for DDR2 800) for other RAMs check ur provider, make sure the ram has spare leeway for "accidents" and dont time it too tight, this is to give it a small cushion for when the 8800 draws data from the system ram, when it does this it wreaks havock on the rams timings and voltages, causing ram errors and eventually BSODS
Extra info on the problem:
The 8800 driver design is crap, it basically acts like a 4 year old bully when playing in the motherboard sandbox with other peripherals, when it wants to read the system memory directly from the PCI-E bus it just goes ahead and forcefully takes the data without asking anyone, usually Cheap crappy RAM being the Hobo that it is gets bullied and doesnt complain, but Expensive high performance RAM doesnt like to put up with that kinda crap from anyone, expecially not comming from Ms. 8800 Paris Hilton so whats it do? its tells the 8800 he can go ahead and take its memory "request" and shove it up its.... and well the Mommy windows doesnt like when kids fight so she takes the ball from them both and tells them game is over in the form of a nice BSOD in your face.
12: Underclocking
Cause:
Nvidia Cannot overclock its own chips for its life.
How to fix?:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=163
Install Riva Tuner and Software Underclock your Factory overclocked card back to its INTENDED SPEFICICATIONS. and watch as magically the BSODS stop.
Extra info on the problem:
Out of 2 factory overclocked cards (1 EVGA, 1 BFG) both gave me BSODS, i manually Under-Clocked them back to their intended original speed and guess what? no more BSODs.. how strange.... ive read if you overclock the cards yourself is fine but never buy a factory overclocked card, after this im sure as hell learning from my mistakes.
Myths about this card (At least the ones i found)
1: Its NOT your PSU
If you have a decent NEW PSU that says SLI ready and has 480+ Watts your good to go, despite what other people tell you its NOT the PSU, its the 8800 Card.
2: Its NOT your RAM
As long as you got NORMAL, STOCK ram that hasnt been touched by a dirty overclocker, you are fine, DO NOT MESS WITH YOUR RAM, the 8800 is VERY picky when it messes with your ram, if you mess with it and then it messes with it youll have serious BSODS comming up.
3: Its NOT your CPU
Self explaining, as long as you got a 3 year old or less CPU your good to go
4: Its NOT your Motherboard
Unless you have an Nvidia chipset board or some other cheap chinese board, then your problem is your motherboard which isnt compatible even with itself, but thats another story. As a rule of thumb on boards that has yet to fail me, if it costed 150+ bucks, then its good, if it costed less and thats its REAL MSRP price then you have a crap board and I suggest you get a new one.
5: Its NOT your other cards
Unless you got a creative X-fi card, then u got serious issues.;
I almost didnt want to post this just because I know there will be someone out there saying how bad nVidia is and how great ATi is.
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT. I am just trying to help out.
Well after a lot of reading, trying, assembling and disassembling ive come to find the main reason of why we are all seeing BSODS on your cards, the main reason is not one but a combination of many factors which i will explain below, I can almost guarantee you that if you follow the instructions ill post here, you will solve your BSOD problem.
Since I got tired of having to look at a billion pages to find this information i decided to put it all in a nice troubleshooting list for everyone to follow, starting with the most common general problem down to the most specific based on what ive seen here and what ive personally tested.
Nature/Origin of the problem:
Just telling you how to fix it would be pointless, so ill try to dig in more as in why this problem is happening and whats up with the research behind this whole post.
After much testing I've come the same conclusion as a guy named dubbo07 on these forums, that the 8800GTX/GTS does not interface well with any high speed memory that uses the high performance Micron D9 chips and/or similar specs chips. Main reason? Timing and Voltages, not necesarily the Rams, its the entire board's, Graphics applications constantly store and read data from the video memory and system memory, the video driver attempts to access the system memory randomly for what ever reason and does this in a way most ram chips dont like, and BAM, hardware crash "insert 10 diff blue screen errors here" messages, ranging from IRQ, to Page fault and flat out hang.
So after reading a bit people had no clue WTF was causing this i decided to grab the 10 8800GTX Cards i had here from BFG. XFX. EVGA you name it, Air cooled, water cooled, overclocked, stock etc. and give them a spin, to try to find out what in hell is causing this, i was using cloned windows installations, so to avoid actual drivers being the cause.
The 10 test systems were as follows:
Intel D975XBX2 Bad Axe 2 Motherboards
8800GTX 768MB Random Brands and Cooling Systems but same overall card chip
E6600 Conroes 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo Retail
1,2,4 GB Ram Configs using Kingston PC6400 DDR2 HyperX Ram in 1 2 4 stick configs
Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro Gamer Series Audio and onboard Sygmatel Audio
Hiper Type R 580W Modular PSU - $85 buck PSU (which isnt very uber, if this thing could run it any can)
I tried every single config I could, and I came up with This troubleshooting list on some machines some points fixed some of the bsods, on others the others fixed it, eventually they all got fixed, it wasnt one thing but multiple things that were causing the bsods.
Heres the list be sure to try it from top to bottom.
1: Heat
Cause:
Nvidia "Nerfed" the fan control speed and its now SET at 60% fixed speed and WILL NOT MOVE
How to fix?:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=163
Download Rivatuner from guru3d.com and hard overide the NVidia fan control to set it to 100% at all times, yes its noisy but even at 100% damn thing wont go under 65c IMHO still to hot but def better than 100+ water boiling.
Extra info on the problem:
Nvidia says the GPU is fine up to 147celcius, IMHO, i dont care what Nvidia says, if i cant handle it with my hands, i dont want it inside my case, and since they "decided" to "nerf" the fan controller the card runs hotter than ever, this is usually the most common cause for the "it hangs every 30 mins or so of gaming" problem, if its not the actual nvidia card overheating thats causing the hang its somethign else in your board locking up due to the nvidia card overheating it way over its intended heat range, namely your PCI-E controller, chipset or some other circuit getting 100c air being blown direcly over itand making IT lock up.
2SU Wiring
Cause:
Massive flat out raw power draw from this card under heavy load
How to fix?:
Give Your Majesty its own personal rails for its sole and exclusive use, do not let any other "peasants" get near its personal rails.
Extra info on the problem:
This card is insane, it REQUIRES 2 full rails ONLY for itself. so make sure the 2 rails you are connecting to the cards power plugs are 100% independent of each other and do NOT use rails with other devices in them, the cables have to be straight PSU to Vid card and thats it nothing else, i put 3 rails SPECIFICALLY for the card on mine and works fine.
3river
Cause:
Nvidia needs to learn to play and learn to code when it comes to drivers
How to fix?:
Get the new beta driver
ForceWare 160.03 (Yes 160.03)
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1633
Extra info on the problem:
Nvidia loves to keep good stuff unavailable and make us hate it even more, somehow guru3d got a hold of the 160.03 leaked beta drivers and modded them SPECIFICALLY to fix most BSODS, by changing the way it reads and writes to system memory, install these and be happy ever after, no more BSODS.
4: Windows Settings
Multisampling off
Cause:
No idea, im guessing its related to how system memory is read when this setting is on.
How to fix:
Turn off Multisampling, it is said BSODs stop in most situations when this is turned off
5: IRQ Conflicts
Cause:
Windows is retarded, Plug and Play Bios are retarded, and seems none of them can figure out that putting a MONSTER in a jail cell with a puny man both sharing the same toilet, wont end up nicely.
How to fix":
1:Reset your BIOS to clear the PnP PCI IRQ assignment tables and force it to reassign new ones.
2:Change the "Offending" card from slot and pray it gets assigned a new IRQ (im saying offending because HOW DARE HE use up the 8800's personal IRQ, its blasphemy)
3:Slap it into the last PCI slot, with luck your board is one of those "Last PCI slot has no IRQ set or will get a personal IRQ" and youll be in buisness.
3isable it. Give up, The 8800 is to powerfull, what ever is sharing the interrupt with the 8800 has to die, Disable it and let Ms 8800 have its own IRQ at the cost of killing what ever else was there in the first place, if you dont like this you can thank Mr Bill Gates for it.
Extra info on the Problem:
I wonder when SOMEONE will come up with a MANUAL way to set interrupts instead of this Jack-in-the-Box rat suprize way of doing it. (NO, the "Properties" way of doing it stopped working back in 1998 and ISA card slots, in case you hadnt noticed so please stop saying theres a "way" to manually set interrupts when there CLEARLY isnt, if there was one i think wed know about it already and wouldnt be asking for one)
6: Audigy X-fi,
Cause:
Theres SOMETHING in the way the X-Fi reads memory that the 8800 doesnt like.. it feels like it has to compete so it constantly takes jabs at the X-fi untill they both crash. add that to the X-fi being just as/or worse than/ the 8800 when it comes to IRQ assignment and you got a helluva mix
How to fix:
Theres 3 ways to fix this:
1: Remove it, unless you REAAAAAALLY need/want your X-fi and are willing to spend the next 3 days making it work then proceed with step 2 otherwise just remove it right now and rid urself of a pain.
2: Change it from PCI Slot untill it hits an IRQ that is not as critical and disable what ever is sharing an IRQ with it.
2: Stick in last slot and pray. it MAY work... if it doesnt, go back to step 1
Extra info on the problem:
Creative is as paranoid as the RIAA with its software and licenses and as bad at making drivers as Nvidia and/or ATI, what do you get when you combine both? you dont wanna know.
7: PCI-E 16x 75w+ power drain
Cause:
your board doesnt support heavy draw cards on its PCI-E Bus
How to fix:
Get a new Board
Extra info on the problem:
Some boards got spare juice connectors on them to power the extra draw some cards generate on the PCI-E slots, if yours has this, use it.
8: Stick of RAM Removal
Cause:
Something with the memory interface doesnt work right with the 8800 drivers
How to Fix:
Remove a stick of ram or move it to the oposite channel to force the computer into Single Channel mode.
Extra info on the problem:
By removing a stick of RAM and "downgrading" the machine to Single channel instead of dual channel, forces the 8800 to "calm down" and "play fair" when it reads the system memory bus so BSODS magially stop when the 8800 stops being a pain with the other peripherals
9: PCI-E Slot
Cause:
The PCI-E Slot you are plugging it in either is not 16X or the board isnt making it work properly
How to fix:
Change the card from slot into a secondary or slave slot and see if it works there.
10: Bios Updates
Cause:
Crappy Bios releases (See Bad Axe 2 Original Bios or Asus Stryker Original Bios) make the computer not know WTF to do with the 8800 or how to even read memory properly
How to fix:
Install your motherboards latest Bios.
Extra info on the problem:
When my board came out the damn thing couldnt even boot up properly, it had all kinds of errors, with the new BIOS its working fine, hell the Asus striker a friend had wouldnt even load up vista because it refused to properly detect the DRAMM Timings of its very expensive ram causing it to lock up so always keep your bios up to date, Motherboard manufacturers, release hardware first and suport later so dont expect stuff to work right out of the box
11: DRAMM Timing/Voltage
Cause:
The 8800 driver has a Paris Hilton complex, in which it believes it owns the computer and all its resources, and it can take what ever it wants without needing to ask.
How to Fix?:
Increase your Dram Voltage to 2.1 Volts and 5-5-5-15 (for DDR2 800) for other RAMs check ur provider, make sure the ram has spare leeway for "accidents" and dont time it too tight, this is to give it a small cushion for when the 8800 draws data from the system ram, when it does this it wreaks havock on the rams timings and voltages, causing ram errors and eventually BSODS
Extra info on the problem:
The 8800 driver design is crap, it basically acts like a 4 year old bully when playing in the motherboard sandbox with other peripherals, when it wants to read the system memory directly from the PCI-E bus it just goes ahead and forcefully takes the data without asking anyone, usually Cheap crappy RAM being the Hobo that it is gets bullied and doesnt complain, but Expensive high performance RAM doesnt like to put up with that kinda crap from anyone, expecially not comming from Ms. 8800 Paris Hilton so whats it do? its tells the 8800 he can go ahead and take its memory "request" and shove it up its.... and well the Mommy windows doesnt like when kids fight so she takes the ball from them both and tells them game is over in the form of a nice BSOD in your face.
12: Underclocking
Cause:
Nvidia Cannot overclock its own chips for its life.
How to fix?:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=163
Install Riva Tuner and Software Underclock your Factory overclocked card back to its INTENDED SPEFICICATIONS. and watch as magically the BSODS stop.
Extra info on the problem:
Out of 2 factory overclocked cards (1 EVGA, 1 BFG) both gave me BSODS, i manually Under-Clocked them back to their intended original speed and guess what? no more BSODs.. how strange.... ive read if you overclock the cards yourself is fine but never buy a factory overclocked card, after this im sure as hell learning from my mistakes.
Myths about this card (At least the ones i found)
1: Its NOT your PSU
If you have a decent NEW PSU that says SLI ready and has 480+ Watts your good to go, despite what other people tell you its NOT the PSU, its the 8800 Card.
2: Its NOT your RAM
As long as you got NORMAL, STOCK ram that hasnt been touched by a dirty overclocker, you are fine, DO NOT MESS WITH YOUR RAM, the 8800 is VERY picky when it messes with your ram, if you mess with it and then it messes with it youll have serious BSODS comming up.
3: Its NOT your CPU
Self explaining, as long as you got a 3 year old or less CPU your good to go
4: Its NOT your Motherboard
Unless you have an Nvidia chipset board or some other cheap chinese board, then your problem is your motherboard which isnt compatible even with itself, but thats another story. As a rule of thumb on boards that has yet to fail me, if it costed 150+ bucks, then its good, if it costed less and thats its REAL MSRP price then you have a crap board and I suggest you get a new one.
5: Its NOT your other cards
Unless you got a creative X-fi card, then u got serious issues.;