I don't think Ryzen 9900x3d is just being announced next month, I think it's launching next month.

[Dr. Dro]

Unless you like experimenting / beta testing.


AMD didn't do a dual V-cache dual CCD R9 because
1. It doesn't improve gaming performance because games don't scale well above 8 cores,
2. It can hinder application performance due to the lower clocks, and
3. It increases production costs and price with little to no benefit.

With that said, I'm not a fan of heterogenous chip design, either.

That's their official excuse anyway.

 

[freeagent]

If it is at least 50% faster than Zen 3, I am in.. if not.. I will wait it out till team Blue drops the beat.

 

[AusWolf]

That's their official excuse anyway.

Considering that the 7800X3D is on par with the 7950X3D in almost every game benchmark, I believe it.

 

[Dragam1337]

your argument makes a lot of sense, only thing I would change is that I believe best bins go to 7950x x3d or non-x3d, it doesn't matter, the 12 and 16 core parts get the best bins regardless, I may be wrong on this though as chiplet design has changed things

It has been like this, yes... but honestly it's a bit stupid / annoying that they do it like this... so if you want the best gaming performance, you gotta buy a 7950x3d and disable the non-3d ccx to get a 5% performance uplift over the 7800x3d...

 

[AusWolf]

It has been like this, yes... but honestly it's a bit stupid / annoying that they do it like this... so if you want the best gaming performance, you gotta buy a 7950x3d and disable the non-3d ccx to get a 5% performance uplift over the 7800x3d...

If anyone considers spending 60% more for 5% better minimum FPS, they're out of their mind.

 

[Assimilator]

If anyone considers spending 60% more for 5% better minimum FPS, they're out of their mind.

Unless they're an esports FPS player.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Considering that the 7800X3D is on par with the 7950X3D in almost every game benchmark, I believe it.

I think it's stupid, they should have released both as an option with anyone who wanted cache on both CCD at least have the option to purchase one at a higher price. Pretty sure it would have sold fine people buy the KS chips even though they are dumb they could have brought back the Black Edition naming and the 7900X3D likely would be more desirable instead of dropping to near 7800X3D price levels.

I'm not sure if it's improved but you use to have to jump through hoops to get windows to behave with a 7950X3D in every game or disable the second CCD.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Considering that the 7800X3D is on par with the 7950X3D in almost every game benchmark, I believe it.

This is due to the hybrid processor's problems rather than any unique strength of the single-CCD model, though. The concept is the same as a Ryzen 7950X or even the 5950X before those. They were never twice as fast as single-CCD Ryzen 7 equivalent at games, but that doesn't mean that there weren't games or applications that didn't benefit from having the extra CCD - having an extra X3D CCD here would make cache resource availability something nuts - and I know at least one game that would delight itself in it, and that's oddly Fallout 4.

Just the fact you'd not have scheduling trouble and the processor would have consistent behavior is justification enough, IMHO. But like I said, AMD wants to ensure that these Ryzen 9 CPUs don't cannibalize any potential sales from higher margin segments.

I think it's stupid, they should have released both as an option with anyone who wanted cache on both CCD at least have the option to purchase one at a higher price. Pretty sure it would have sold fine people buy the KS chips even though they are dumb they could have brought back the Black Edition naming and the 7900X3D likely would be more desirable instead of dropping to near 7800X3D price levels.

I'm not sure if it's improved but you use to have to jump through hoops to get windows to behave with a 7950X3D in every game or disable the second CCD.

Didn't and will never improve, not to mention that custom scheduler driver they developed is a hot mess and even relies on Xbox Game Bar being present.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Didn't and will never improve, not to mention that custom scheduler driver they developed is a hot mess and even relies on Xbox Game Bar being present.

I only got to mess around with one for a couple hours paired with a 4090 and it was a major headache it felt half baked reminded me alot of when 12th gen intel came out.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

This is due to the hybrid processor's problems rather than any unique strength of the single-CCD model, though. The concept is the same as a Ryzen 7950X or even the 5950X before those. They were never twice as fast as single-CCD Ryzen 7 equivalent at games, but that doesn't mean that there weren't games or applications that didn't benefit from having the extra CCD - having an extra X3D CCD here would make cache resource availability something nuts - and I know at least one game that would delight itself in it, and that's oddly Fallout 4.

Just the fact you'd not have scheduling trouble and the processor would have consistent behavior is justification enough, IMHO. But like I said, AMD wants to ensure that these Ryzen 9 CPUs don't cannibalize any potential sales from higher margin segments.



Didn't and will never improve, not to mention that custom scheduler driver they developed is a hot mess and even relies on Xbox Game Bar being present.

It’s about as much of a hot mess as owning a CPU with E-cores.

 

[Dr. Dro]

It’s about as much of a hot mess as owning a CPU with E-cores.

The difference being that the E-cores are clearly labeled as such, and Intel's system has the ability to direct what goes where with much higher accuracy, even if Windows tends not to cooperate

 

[Nordic]

It has been like this, yes... but honestly it's a bit stupid / annoying that they do it like this... so if you want the best gaming performance, you gotta buy a 7950x3d and disable the non-3d ccx to get a 5% performance uplift over the 7800x3d...

Or you can buy a motherboard with asynchronous clock generator.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

The difference being that the E-cores are clearly labeled as such, and Intel's system has the ability to direct what goes where with much higher accuracy, even if Windows tends not to cooperate

In day to day use, the experience is about equal. Not that I would know or anything

 

[Space Lynx]

In day to day use, the experience is about equal. Not that I would know or anything

I do agree with you, that it is a good thing you never stopped at the Microcenter you drove by that one day. I really need to move away further from the one here.

 

[Dr. Dro]

In day to day use, the experience is about equal. Not that I would know or anything

Yeah mostly because of Windows I reckon. Sad.

 

[AusWolf]

This is due to the hybrid processor's problems rather than any unique strength of the single-CCD model, though. The concept is the same as a Ryzen 7950X or even the 5950X before those. They were never twice as fast as single-CCD Ryzen 7 equivalent at games, but that doesn't mean that there weren't games or applications that didn't benefit from having the extra CCD - having an extra X3D CCD here would make cache resource availability something nuts - and I know at least one game that would delight itself in it, and that's oddly Fallout 4.

I don't think it's the hybrid design. More likely games not using more than 8 cores, and/or being hindered by inter-CCD latency.

Just the fact you'd not have scheduling trouble and the processor would have consistent behavior is justification enough, IMHO. But like I said, AMD wants to ensure that these Ryzen 9 CPUs don't cannibalize any potential sales from higher margin segments.

I agree - but I also consider AMD's point of view equally valid.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

I do agree with you, that it is a good thing you never stopped at the Microcenter you drove by that one day. I really need to move away further from the one here.

Oh, I fully admit I have a problem. That's the first step, right?

Yeah mostly because of Windows I reckon. Sad.

My less than clearly made point was trying to say that both Intel with big.LITTLE and AMD with 2 CCD's without or without 3D Cache, each get things wrong at times, but I haven't felt that either rise to 'e-waste cores' or 'hot mess' level of of irritation.

For plug-n-play gaming, a single CCD 3D V-Cache CPU seems to be the answer. Unless you need more than 8 cores for other uses....

'Right Tool for the Job' and 'Horses for Courses' and all that.

 

[SL2]

I don't think it's the hybrid design. More likely games not using more than 8 cores, and/or being hindered by inter-CCD latency.

Yeah, the latter isn't optimal for gaming if more than 8 cores would be needed in games, so the idea of going all out on both chiplets isn't a given, and also for the reasons listed before.

I believe we'll see an increase in CCD core count before 2x8 3D CCD's, especially after seeing the unrelated rumors about Strix Point having 12 cores (even if not having 3D cache). I don't think it will happen with Zen 5 tho, a better scheduler is more likely in the meantime.

It's easy to criticize the current design, when we have zero actual knowledge about the drawbacks of its alternatives (unlike AMD). Calling the design pea-brained is just flame baiting. AusWolf's three points looks reasonable to me, and I have yet to see anyone coming up with better reasons.

The 7950X3D will run as fast as the 7800X3D in some games, that's a fact. Getting it to run faster than that may not be as easy as using 2x3D CCD's, diminishing returns and outlier games aside.

 

[jarablue]

Looks like they say only 10% per IPC. Lets see when it hits what the increase is.

 

[Space Lynx]

Will 9000 series work on my AM5 Asus X670-P WIFI board? Or will it require a whole new motherboard?

you will need to update the motherboard BIOS, but it will work just fine. (update the BIOS before you install it)

 

[jarablue]

you will need to update the motherboard BIOS, but it will work just fine. (update the BIOS before you install it)

Thanks!