Installing Windows 10...and then reverting back. Help!

[satindemon4u]

Hello all. Recently at work we have decided to take on a task. Windows 10 will be offered for free up until July 29th as most of you may already know.

So, our network admin found a way that we can upgrade all of our PC's to 10, then downgrade them back to 7. In doing so, it registers the PC with Microsoft so that in the future we can upgrade back to 10 if we want to, at no cost.

Here is the question though. We recently found out that we can successfully image a hard drive that has Windows 10 on it, to another PC. At the second PC we enter the Windows 7 key that applies to that PC. This registers Windows 10 and even tells us that Windows is now genuine.

Does this sound like it will work?

In short:
1. Install Windows 10 on a PC
2. Image that hard drive to another PC (NOTE: The two PC's are exactly the same in hardware)
3. Register Windows 10 using a Windows 7 key that was supplied with the PC when purchased.
4. Windows is now genuine and everything is working fine.

We would much rather go this route rather than installing Windows 10 fresh on every machine since that takes much longer. With this method we would be able to apply an image in roughly 20 minutes and be done.

The crappy part is, we don't know for SURE that this will work until after the 29th of July lol.

Also, we have found that the key that Microsoft is using is just a "one size fits all" release key. We checked 3 different PC's that have Windows 10 on them (that we did the Win10 upgrade on) and all of them have the same key.

SO: Can we actually install 10, go back to 7 and later go back to 10 just fine? AND, can we image a hard drive to another hard drive as described above?

 

[Ebo]

Win 10 binds itself to some of your hardware, so if all machines have exactly the same hardware, I cant see any problem in making an image or using the upgradetool for it.

 

[R-T-B]

Win 10 binds itself to some of your hardware, so if all machines have exactly the same hardware, I cant see any problem in making an image or using the upgradetool for it.

It binds to the bios id, which is unique per mobo. It then uses a generic key against a hardware activation whitelist bound to said bios id.

Once a bios id is whitelisted, you can clean install as many times as you want, or image/what have you.

 

[Kursah]

What you and your IT guy propose is a lot of work and I feel a lot of wasted time. Why not setup or elect a test system where you upgrade to 10 to verify if all of your company's required resources at your office work appropriately on 10 and then upgrade all systems in small pockets to prevent major losses/outages? We have deployed a few offices in the staggered upgrade method once verifying 10 has no issues and have had 0 issues playing it safe.

I also hope you'll be backing up each system, even if its a simple Macrium Reflect image just in case the upgrade fails...or causes issues. I haven't seen one since the first 10 ISO release last July, but it could still happen. 10 is currently very good and stable...I've been on it since day 1.

I see no point in rolling back to 7 if everything works fine...I've done a couple rollbacks and while they worked fine they took a looooong time. Honestly if someone is uncomfortable with the start menu, throw on Classic Shell and move onward and upward.

 

[satindemon4u]

What you and your IT guy propose is a lot of work and I feel a lot of wasted time. Why not setup or elect a test system where you upgrade to 10 to verify if all of your company's required resources at your office work appropriately on 10 and then upgrade all systems in small pockets to prevent major losses/outages? We have deployed a few offices in the staggered upgrade method once verifying 10 has no issues and have had 0 issues playing it safe.

I also hope you'll be backing up each system, even if its a simple Macrium Reflect image just in case the upgrade fails...or causes issues. I haven't seen one since the first 10 ISO release last July, but it could still happen. 10 is currently very good and stable...I've been on it since day 1.

I see no point in rolling back to 7 if everything works fine...I've done a couple rollbacks and while they worked fine they took a looooong time. Honestly if someone is uncomfortable with the start menu, throw on Classic Shell and move onward and upward.

We are actually creating images of any PC we are unsure about. The purpose for rolling back is that we do have a good number of machines that we know for a fact, don't work well with Windows 10. YET. The software on those machines isn't completely ready for Windows 10. So the idea is to roll back to 7 until that software is all Windows 10 ready. When it is, upgrade back to Windows 10.

 

[Kursah]

Ya that makes sense then. Mind if I ask what software you're facing issues with? I've seen some banking software that required IE rather than Edge...thankfully when you upgrade from 7, IE stays. But it is pretty rare I've seen something running in 7 that won't work in 10, especially the newer versions of 10.

I have seen some WordPerfect issues with some Law Firms as the most annoying to have issues (mostly CTD, which is standard WP affairs regardless of OS).

Still, you are setting yourself up for a lotta work...but if it equates to being cost comparative to saving the $200/machine for 10 Pro licensees (assuming you're on a domain and need Pro) in comparison to your posted labor time doing this task, then sounds like you have a long road ahead, but as you said, at least you'll be ready when its time.

 

[satindemon4u]

Ya that makes sense then. Mind if I ask what software you're facing issues with? I've seen some banking software that required IE rather than Edge...thankfully when you upgrade from 7, IE stays. But it is pretty rare I've seen something running in 7 that won't work in 10, especially the newer versions of 10.

I have seen some WordPerfect issues with some Law Firms as the most annoying to have issues (mostly CTD, which is standard WP affairs regardless of OS).

Still, you are setting yourself up for a lotta work...but if it equates to being cost comparative to saving the $200/machine for 10 Pro licensees (assuming you're on a domain and need Pro) in comparison to your posted labor time doing this task, then sounds like you have a long road ahead, but as you said, at least you'll be ready when its time.

The software that doesn't work currently is in fact some banking software. The company has already stated that they are working on getting a version ready for Windows 10 but it isn't fully ready yet. We tried to force it but it just had a ton of bugs and would have resulted in a lot of downtime. And we are trying to get the upgrade now because yes, at $200/machine it is a big chunk when we are talking about almost 100 machines lol. And yes, they would have to be pro.

So yeah, the entire process will be pretty labor intensive so we were just trying to find the best way to slim it down. Prior to this idea we were just running a usual upgrade which could take anywhere from 2-4 hours. With this idea we can apply an image in about 10 minutes and then just have to make a few adjustments. The only downside to this, we can't do this for EVERY PC. Only those that have the same exact hardware. Even then, we can't do it to teller PC's because those PC's when we purchased them didn't come with Windows Keys. The key is like...baked into the bios I believe. So we can't image 10, then enter a pre-existing key because we don't have it.

 

[Kursah]

With those teller PC's if they're Win8 with the key stored in firmware, 10 will upgrade and recognize it no different than 7.

You're best making an image for each PC, only because you will run into issues with cloned system ID's, IP addresses, configs, domain/non-domain profiles that could create major issues. For over 100 PC's...if you do a Sysprep on a Win10 image, then you could use that image and register it. After a PC is registered with 10, all you need to do is connect it to the web and its HWID will be given to MS and your OS will be activated.

Depending on how you do the image and just how many PC's you have of similar builds, with similar software, you could be OK...but do look into Sysprepping so you don't screw yourself over.

Also, you can use KMS keys to install an OS, these are MS provided keys to allow an OS installation but won't activate: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj612867(v=ws.11).aspx

 

[satindemon4u]

With those teller PC's if they're Win8 with the key stored in firmware, 10 will upgrade and recognize it no different than 7.

You're best making an image for each PC, only because you will run into issues with cloned system ID's, IP addresses, configs, domain/non-domain profiles that could create major issues. For over 100 PC's...if you do a Sysprep on a Win10 image, then you could use that image and register it. After a PC is registered with 10, all you need to do is connect it to the web and its HWID will be given to MS and your OS will be activated.

Depending on how you do the image and just how many PC's you have of similar builds, with similar software, you could be OK...but do look into Sysprepping so you don't screw yourself over.

Also, you can use KMS keys to install an OS, these are MS provided keys to allow an OS installation but won't activate: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj612867(v=ws.11).aspx

Well the teller PC's were actually supposed to come with Windows 8 on them. But we opted to downgrade to Windows 7.

 

[Kursah]

And you can't extract the key with Belarc?

 

[satindemon4u]

And you can't extract the key with Belarc?

Never used Belarc?

 

[Kursah]

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Extracts keys for Windows 7 and older, MS Office software (2010 and older, sometimes 2013), and a lot of other software. Gives you various metrics on the system, network shares, etc. Pretty handy utility. I'd be surprised if your network admin hadn't heard of it before.

 

[satindemon4u]

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Extracts keys for Windows 7 and older, MS Office software (2010 and older, sometimes 2013), and a lot of other software. Gives you various metrics on the system, network shares, etc. Pretty handy utility. I'd be surprised if your network admin hadn't heard of it before.

He isn't here right now haha. But, I did check it out and grabbed it. Took all of about 30 seconds to learn how to use it! Very nifty program! Someone else in our department had heard of it before. Apparently I live under a rock ha.

 

[satindemon4u]

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Extracts keys for Windows 7 and older, MS Office software (2010 and older, sometimes 2013), and a lot of other software. Gives you various metrics on the system, network shares, etc. Pretty handy utility. I'd be surprised if your network admin hadn't heard of it before.

Quick question...

Right now I am installing Windows 10 on some PC's and then will be reverting them back to Windows 7. That's because these PC's will be teller PC's. The reason I am going to 10 now is because of course it is free. However, if all the PC's are the same exact hardware is this even necessary? If they are the same exact hardware, couldn't I simply upgrade them to 10 even after July 29th? All of the PC's have the same Windows 7 key because I am assuming it's volume licensing. So as it stands right now, after upgrading they all end with the same Windows 10 key.

So in short I suppose, later on couldn't I use the Windows 10 key that it is giving them now to upgrade since it is all the same exact hardware? I am just double checking because the last thing I want to do is upgrade these new teller PC's to 10 and downgrade them when I really don't have to.

 

[RejZoR]

Current builds allow direct installation of Windows 10 with Windows 8.1 or 7 keys. Only requirement is that Win7/8.1 keys have been activated before. Once it is registered with MS servers, that's that.

You can do the disk cloning, but you'll have to activate each individual system afterwards. Just to be sure, you can test this on just one workstation, just to be sure and not waste too much time.

I bought unused Windows 7 key and I couldn't clean install Windows 10 because the Win7 key was never activated before. So I had to first install Win7, activate it, upgrade it to Win10 and from then on, I can install Windows 10 clean. No need to activate, Windows links itself to server automatically and activates itself.

 

[satindemon4u]

Current builds allow direct installation of Windows 10 with Windows 8.1 or 7 keys. Only requirement is that Win7/8.1 keys have been activated before. Once it is registered with MS servers, that's that.

You can do the disk cloning, but you'll have to activate each individual system afterwards. Just to be sure, you can test this on just one workstation, just to be sure and not waste too much time.

I bought unused Windows 7 key and I couldn't clean install Windows 10 because the Win7 key was never activated before. So I had to first install Win7, activate it, upgrade it to Win10 and from then on, I can install Windows 10 clean. No need to activate, Windows links itself to server automatically and activates itself.

Well currently all of these PC's are activated with Windows 7. So when I throw 10 on it shows activated when I boot in and check the status of the machine. So right now, I have an image of one of the machines after 10 was installed and confirmed activated, that I then throw on the other PC's. No problems. (as far as I know)

But, do I need to be doing this? Or could I just wait until lets say a year from now and do it then? I ask because it's obviously a lot more time to image, go back to Windows 7 and then at some point later on down the road, go back to 10. Would I be safe to leave them at 7 now and then try to throw 10 on those PC's in let's say a year or something?

 

[Kursah]

Same exact hardware still have different MAC and HWIDs. The HWID is what registers the 10 activation to Microsoft. They all need independently upgraded to have a unique key for their unique ID. You will likely not receive a 10 key that isn't a KMS key to install but not activate. If you read up on 10 you'll find it activates via HW key. That also means should that hardware fail and you upgraded from an OEM (what comes on prebuilt PCs) install...and you only replace the mainboard you will need to buy a new license as the key is tied to the mainboard.

Also u less you're using Sysprep, and know how to use that and DISM. You're better off making an image of each PC. Otherwise you will face headaches. At best a call to Microsoft's automated activation 800 number and likely what will happen is OS activation, software registration nightmares.

You can't use another PCs activated cloned image in the way you want. Sorry...no shortcuts in that way without more advanced management tools from MS or other devs. There's a number of reasons even beyond activation for this. Profiles, personal data, software, registry, drivers, etc. Just because two systems have the same specs, doesn't mean they're the exact same...they're not. There's enough difference where issues can and do crop up when folks try this. My bench tech tried this one 7 clone a few weeks ago against my advice and had to waste a day unfucking the situation for free.

Follow the KISS...which here means backups of each system unless you are not only familiar with but also confident with DISM, Sysprep and Windows Imaging management. Is your admin helping you with this or has this been delegated to you?

What you can do is back em up while on 7. Sure this means upgrading again down the road...but with the big summer update coming and whatever else in the time between now and when you might upgrade...it'll be a fresher 10 image which they update frequently to include recent patches and updates.

If you load from a 10 image..from today a year in the future you'll have a lot of patching to do and won't really save any time. Just food for thought.

Are you able to at least keep a portion of your PCs on 10? Also when you upgraded to 10 on the test PC your IE should've stayed...did the banking software fail in that or did you try Edge? I hate the legacy banking software bit was able to get one working for a client in 10 yesterday in IE on 10.

Hope that helps!

 

[satindemon4u]

Same exact hardware still have different MAC and HWIDs. The HWID is what registers the 10 activation to Microsoft. They all need independently upgraded to have a unique key for their unique ID. You will likely not receive a 10 key that isn't a KMS key to install but not activate. If you read up on 10 you'll find it activates via HW key. That also means should that hardware fail and you upgraded from an OEM (what comes on prebuilt PCs) install...and you only replace the mainboard you will need to buy a new license as the key is tied to the mainboard.

Also u less you're using Sysprep, and know how to use that and DISM. You're better off making an image of each PC. Otherwise you will face headaches. At best a call to Microsoft's automated activation 800 number and likely what will happen is OS activation, software registration nightmares.

You can't use another PCs activated cloned image in the way you want. Sorry...no shortcuts in that way without more advanced management tools from MS or other devs. There's a number of reasons even beyond activation for this. Profiles, personal data, software, registry, drivers, etc. Just because two systems have the same specs, doesn't mean they're the exact same...they're not. There's enough difference where issues can and do crop up when folks try this. My bench tech tried this one 7 clone a few weeks ago against my advice and had to waste a day unfucking the situation for free.

Follow the KISS...which here means backups of each system unless you are not only familiar with but also confident with DISM, Sysprep and Windows Imaging management. Is your admin helping you with this or has this been delegated to you?

What you can do is back em up while on 7. Sure this means upgrading again down the road...but with the big summer update coming and whatever else in the time between now and when you might upgrade...it'll be a fresher 10 image which they update frequently to include recent patches and updates.

If you load from a 10 image..from today a year in the future you'll have a lot of patching to do and won't really save any time. Just food for thought.

Are you able to at least keep a portion of your PCs on 10? Also when you upgraded to 10 on the test PC your IE should've stayed...did the banking software fail in that or did you try Edge? I hate the legacy banking software bit was able to get one working for a client in 10 yesterday in IE on 10.

Hope that helps!

Thank you for all of the good info. So are you saying that we cannot apply an activated 10 PC image to the other PC's? I figured this would be possible since all of the PC's on 7 have the same key. Secondly, the key after installing Windows 10 (even from the windows 10 installer directly from Microsoft) is the same from one machine to another. I figured that was because these machines are probably using volume licensing since we bought 30 of them all at once. Or did I misunderstand you in this part?

As far as loading a 10 image a year later from today, very good point. I didn't even consider all of the patching and things. xD

And at last, we are able to keep some PC's on windows 10. Over half of them actually. The only ones that we cannot are all of the teller PC's. Most of the banking software works fine on 10 but there are only one or two pieces of individual software that don't work, sadly. And yes, we are making sure to use IE always as Edge is god awful and just breaks things even more. lol.

 

[Kursah]

If those machines are using VLSC then you might be fine...but you still wouldn't want to use the same image for the reasons I listed prior. Yes 10 has VLSC and we've done some in-office upgrades on those machines as those companies have volume licenses for 10 as well (mostly schools and other higher educational facilities).

If you use the same image...you will lose profile info for each user (even if they use the same stuff it could be an issue if you dont backup Outlook PSTs and config stuff for that PC), hw ids won't match which can be a pain to resolve, you'll run into network and registry issues. Bad news. Id hate to see you spend more time later on any of that if I can prevent it.

Sounds like you're making good progress and I'm glad to help where I can.