Intel 10700K system - need advice

[cucker tarlson]

even at 1080p with high to ultra settings its debatable with current gpu's how much it matters beyond a 12 thread with 8th/9th/10th gen Cpu or 3000 series.



i don't know my 5820k was struggling in a lot of modern games before I replace it... not so much with avg frame rates but with 1% low performance.

cause it's a haswell and not a very high clocker at that

 

[oxrufiioxo]

cause it's a haswell and not a very high clocker at that

Yeah capped out around 4.6ghz.... Lasted 4+ years though.

 

[sepheronx]

He games at 1080p. I told him his next upgrade should be a new monitor 1440p or 4K, he said he will eventually. He doesn't stream but he does love to play Star Citizen as the dumb dumb man spent $500 on some ship. It has become a way for his roommate and I to tease him over. So he is building it around that game and judging how poorly optimized it is, if he can play that game, he will play any. (I know that isn't entirely true but...)

So you guys say the Asus motherboards? I gotta check but ones I looked at didn't have the USB C header on the motherboard for front panel. I thought the MSI boards were good in terms of VRM for Intel?

 

[thesmokingman]

So you guys say the Asus motherboards? I gotta check but ones I looked at didn't have the USB C header on the motherboard for front panel. I thought the MSI boards were good in terms of VRM for Intel?

For me it comes down to the bios and Asus 9 out 10 times wins in this dept, especially the ROG branded boards.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

He's probably going to need 3080 ti in sli to run that game at 1080p

 

[cucker tarlson]

For me it comes down to the bios and Asus 9 out 10 times wins in this dept, especially the ROG branded boards.

bios layout is something you can get used to.

 

[sepheronx]

bios layout is something you can get used to.

I won't be playing in the bios much at all besides maybe with memory.

 

[cucker tarlson]

I won't be playing in the bios much at all besides maybe with memory.

which is just selecting xmp and pressing F10

 

[tabascosauz]

It is indeed mostly gaming. I was aiming at Intel currently simply because Its close to same price (x570 motherboards all seem to be sold out for something half decent and hard to come by), with the Intel being slightly better at gaming. I was also thinking that it would be cheaper to use AMD just because it comes with a stock cooler.

As for the 8 cores / 16 threads it is mostly because since the new consoles will be using 8c/16t was trying to "future proof" as best as I can without going the extreme (12 core / 24 threads or 10 core / 20 threads).



Heck, even Memory Express is jacking up prices. If I can get free shipping I would be looking at Canada Computers.

ME prices are alright. Problem is that the products they stock get rarer and rarer by the minute and has been the case for well over a year now, to the point that I outright can't find the brands I want anymore. CC has a stock variety comparable to NCIX back in the day, but often doesn't show up in PCPartPicker results.

Keep in mind that while you can pay in store with credit/debit at CC (no cash due to human malware), I don't think the web checkout process supports debit, or at least MC debit. You may have a different experience with Visa. I ran into this wall a couple of times last year trying to use my info to reserve an order for payment upon store pickup.

 

[sepheronx]

Where abouts are you? No CC here in Alberta that I am aware of. We are at the total whim of MC. While they are decent, their stocks are absolute trash now.

 

[tabascosauz]

Where abouts are you? No CC here in Alberta that I am aware of. We are at the total whim of MC. While they are decent, their stocks are absolute trash now.

I'm in the Vancouver area. Fortunately for me, CC has multiple stores here, although ME has one that's close to my house (pointless without products).

I think I'd trust CC with shipping, but they do have an amended returns policy as indicated by the banner on their site. Check with that first if you buy CC.

ME is straight up crumbling under the weight of 'rona. They refuse to ship anything unless it's available in their Online Store inventory. Months ago there were 10+ SN750 1TBs at stores, yet none at the warehouse and they refused to ship to me so I had to go wait outside at the store to pick one up.

 

[Vayra86]

games are getting bigger and more complex in size and geometry,I say they'll both be slouches in 4-5 years time,no matter if it's 6/12 at 5G or 8/16 at 4.5.
it'll just not happen overnight,it'll happen gradually.
people quote 4 threads vs 6/8 but the results we have suggest that the transition in the future will be far smoother than that.

Neither of those CPUs will be slouches in 4-5 years time. We have 12 threads available and games do their threading better. Its no longer the pure need for physical cores, but mostly threads. Same goes for the development on consoles. You need a baseline of physical cores and additional threads can run just fine through SMT. Consoles even reserve some grunt for the OS, not unlike a PC.

It echoes the development we saw when HT/SMT was NOT used by games. There was one fat game thread, and a few smaller ones running on the other cores. The net gain from additional cores wasn't there. We're past that now, and this core count doubling will not be going on indefinitely for MSDT either. I struggle to see how that mixes with dual channel RAM, at some point the bandwidth is saturated when you load up.

6/12, or 8/16 right now is a matter of choices between cost and usability. As in, if you have something you run ALONGSIDE your games, then definitely get some extra cores over 6 physical, because you will be having more hot threads to run that won't fare well over SMT alone. At that point they start fighting with game performance.

If we look back to the quad core era. The i7's with HT are even today still not completely obsolete. You still see people defend them for gaming and that is because in MOST situations they can still produce 60 FPS. The odd stutter, MAYBE, but that is situational. It is a writing on the wall. But at the same time, it is also 2020 now - 7-8 years (!) past quad core mainstream. Going by that timeline, in 5 years time, 12 thread CPUs will be as relevant as an i7 quad is today. There is no denying that even you still game on it

 

[evernessince]

futureproofing is a myth to a large extent.
you've got an intel 10/20 outperforming 8/16 by a little which in turn outperforms 6/12 by a little which in turn outperforms amd's 8/16 by a little which outperforms intel's 6c/6t by a little and then intel's 6c/6t outperforms amd's 4/8 by a little.
No 6/12 cpu is gonna fall off a cliff next year,or the year after that and after that.


10600kf OC can drive a 2080Ti just as fine as 9900K/109000K stock even in most cpu bound tests out there.No need to make any more confusion.
10700F is a nicer cpu though,both for all round use and for gaming.It's hittting frequencies just shy of K-skus and should stay cool in gaming as it's an 8/16,it's gonna have to deal with a lower cpu load in gaming.

Don't know about that one. The way the 7700K bombed in performance 3 years later says otherwise.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

7700k does fine.... it's the 7600k that has terrible 1% lows.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Don't know about that one. The way the 7700K bombed in performance 3 years later says otherwise.

6700k pretty much matches 3600 all round,avg and min.

6700k at 4.8 is a tad faster than 3600 OC

 

[sepheronx]

So I contacted my friend about the Intel 10700 (non K and non F as given input by both @Assimilator and @cucker tarlson ) and he really likes it overall (I placed in the CM Hyper 212 Black Edition in as the CPU cooler) and it came to just a shy over $1000 CAD. But he also wanted me to price out a AMD system.

System Builder

ca.pcpartpicker.com

I prefer the Intel system myself. Heck, I may even go for it as well.

Here is the initial Intel system:

System Builder

ca.pcpartpicker.com

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I would at least pair them with equal motherboards the Tuf is a lot better than the A pro.


Also you really need to remove all power limits on the 10700 and I'm not sure an h212 is gonna handle 220 watts of heat.

 

[sepheronx]

I would at least pair them with equal motherboards the Tuf is a lot better than the A pro.


Also you really need to remove all power limits on the 10700 and I'm not sure an h212 is gonna handle 220 watts of heat.

I dont think you quite understand but the issue at hand is availability, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. Motherboards, x570 especially, are nearly none existent right now and otherwise, they are expensive or have just unneeded functions. This isn't even my first x570 system I built either. I will be building this machine about this Friday. Maybe next week as latest. So that means if the availability isnt there, then he isn't getting it.

Also, for what my friend is doing, there is no need for something fancy in terms of motherboard. He will need a USB-C header port which doesn't exist on that x570 board either. And why would I remove power limits? My friend isn't doing anything special. He isn't overclocking, he is just playing games and I need something stable but good and cheap enough.

As for the cooler, I will keep my eye out for something better.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It really isn't that great of a chip with its power limits in place and most motherboards actually remove them by default other than Asus I believe.

 

[sepheronx]

It really isn't that great of a chip with its power limits in place and most motherboards actually remove them by default other than Asus I believe.

OK, so I will seek out a cooler that will be sufficient. Cant be AIO.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

OK, so I will seek out a cooler that will be sufficient. Cant be AIO.

the 120mm noctua cooler seemed to be more than capable in the tpu review.

 

[sepheronx]

the 120mm noctua cooler seemed to be more than capable in the tpu review.

all depends on the price. If the price is too much I may just opt for a cheap 240mm AIO for him and just tell him to keep an eye on it.

Major issue is Intel not providing a cooler for their CPU. At least AMD does provide a half decent one.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

They do actually provide a cooler on non K chips it just sucks.... You will definitely be thermal throttling with it without the power limits.

it's similar to the stealth cooler amd provides which also sucks lol.

 

[tabascosauz]

all depends on the price. If the price is too much I may just opt for a cheap 240mm AIO for him and just tell him to keep an eye on it.

Major issue is Intel not providing a cooler for their CPU. At least AMD does provide a half decent one.

Our TPU review on the 10700 is just out. Stock, the load tenperatures are unreal, it's like a fridge. Without power limits, it ends up between the 3700X and 3900X.

Intel doesnt regulate itself on temps like Ryzen, so even 76C will be fine. This chip doesn't have TVB so you don't have to worry about staying under 70C. The review is done on a U12S, so within spitting distance of a 212 EVO.

Besides, you'll be shelling out $130 CAD guaranteed for the big boys like the U12A, D15 and DRP4.

 

[sepheronx]

Well, seems the noctua cooler is $100 CAD here. Yeah, I doubt he will buy that. I will have to convince him if I can save money elsewhere.

Our TPU review on the 10700 is just out. Stock, the load tenperatures are unreal, it's like a fridge. Without power limits, it ends up between the 3700X and 3900X.

Intel doesnt regulate itself on temps like Ryzen, so even 76C will be fine. The review is done on a U12S, so within spitting distance of a 212 EVO.

Besides, you'll be shelling out $130 CAD guaranteed for the big boys like the U12A, D15 and DRP4.

Ah, so I dont have to spend that much on a cooler then.