• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Coffee Lake CPUs Have Different Pin Configuration than Previous Generation

Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
1,606 (0.40/day)
Location
Little Rock, AR
System Name Gamer
Processor AMD Ryzen 2600
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B350-F
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce GTX 980ti FTW
Case Fractal Designs
Power Supply 800w CM
Mouse Corsair M65 Pro
Software Windows 10 Pro
Intel is set to release its newest generation of processors, known as code name Coffee Lake in just a few days. Recent controversy has focused around the inability of newer processors to be used with motherboards supporting the previous generation CPUs. Intel has released data sheets for Coffee Lake CPUs, and images of the socket's layout support Intel's statement that Coffee Lake will indeed need a new socket design. Specifically, there are more pins responsible for delivering the main power for the CPU cores, known as VCC pins, with Coffee Lake motherboards sporting 146 VCC pins illustrated in the first image below, compared to Kaby Lake and Skylake's 128 illustrated in the second image.

With these pins responsible for delivering power to the CPU cores, this may suggest that previous generation motherboards allowed for lower power operation than is possible with the higher core count of Coffee Lake processors. Whatever the reason, it definitely confirms that Coffee Lake CPUs are hardware-incompatible with previous generation motherboards, and not simply a software or BIOS-level lock.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,104 (3.35/day)
Typo in third sentence. And interestingly enough, I had suggested a while ago that there would be more power pins, and here they are. I mean, adding two cores would obviously require more power pins, or perhaps clocking would be negatively affected by the existing pads sharing power to more areas of the chip...
 

VSG

Editor, Reviews & News
Staff member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,392 (0.66/day)
Typo in third sentence. And interestingly enough, I had suggested a while ago that there would be more power pins, and here they are. I mean, adding two cores would obviously require more power pins, or perhaps clocking would be negatively affected by the existing pads sharing power to more areas of the chip...
Typo corrected, I'll take responsibility for this one :D
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
2,075 (0.76/day)
Location
Jacksonhole Florida
System Name DEVIL'S ABYSS
Processor i7-4790K@4.6 GHz
Motherboard Asus Z97-Deluxe
Cooling Corsair H110 (2 x 140mm)(3 x 140mm case fans)
Memory 16GB Adata XPG V2 2400MHz
Video Card(s) EVGA 780 Ti Classified
Storage Intel 750 Series 400GB (AIC), Plextor M6e 256GB (M.2), 13 TB storage
Display(s) Crossover 27QW (27"@ 2560x1440)
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Cooler Master V1000
Mouse Ttsports Talon Blu
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 version 1803
Benchmark Scores Passmark CPU score = 13080
This also confirms that it won't work the other way, either. 6th and 7th gen CPUs can't work in Z370 boards, even though they use the same 1151 socket. The new boards would either fry a 6700/7700, or refuse to boot. Strangely enough, they all have identical alignment notches, possibly allowing inexperienced builders to make this mistake. I predict some confusion in a few years, when people building from old parts (dead PCs) cobble together parts that look exactly the same, but are incompatible.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,104 (3.35/day)
This also confirms that it won't work the other way, either. 6th and 7th gen CPUs can't work in Z370 boards, even though they use the same 1151 socket. The new boards would either fry a 6700/7700, or refuse to boot. Strangely enough, they all have identical alignment notches, possibly allowing inexperienced builders to make this mistake. I predict some confusion in a few years, when people building from old parts (dead PCs) cobble together parts that look exactly the same, but are incompatible.
Actually, when situations like this happen, there are usually pretty clear indications on the packaging or even on the boards themselves to warn users of potential problems. Also, retailers should have staff educated enough to avoid this sort of thing if purchases are made in person, but online purchases could be problematic. This can easily addressed though, by a small bit of code that asks questions when people make such purchases...
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
196 (0.18/day)
Location
behind you
Processor Threadripper 1950X (4.0 GHz OC)
Motherboard ASRock X399 Professional Gaming
Cooling Enermax Liqtech TR4
Memory 48GB DDR4 2934MHz
Video Card(s) Nvidia GTX 1080, GTX 660TI
Storage 2TB Western Digital HDD, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD, 280GB Intel Optane 900P
Display(s) 2x 1920x1200
Power Supply Cooler Master Silent Pro M (1000W)
Mouse Microsoft wireless 3500
Keyboard Corsair K70 MK.2
Software Windows 10
Also, retailers should have staff educated enough to avoid this sort of thing if purchases are made in person
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

But seriously, this has always been dealt with by using a different socket. If it must have the same number of pins then it should have different notches and a new name (ala 2011-3). This may not be as bad as the days when the power and cassette drives had the same connector and mixing them up could fry your computer, but it is a similarly bad design.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
1,181 (0.23/day)
Processor 7900
Motherboard Rampage Apex
Cooling H115i
Memory 64GB TridentZ 3200 14-14-14-34-1T
Video Card(s) Fury X
Case Corsair 740
Audio Device(s) 8ch LPCM via HDMI to Yamaha Z7 Receiver
Power Supply Corsair AX860
Mouse G903
Keyboard G810
Software 8.1 x64
At first glance, it still looks compatible as the added voltage pins are just reserved pins on the older socket.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
523 (0.31/day)
Location
In the middle of nowhere
System Name Scrapped Parts, Unite !
Processor i5-2500 @ 3.3 Ghz//Q9300 @ 2.5 Ghz
Motherboard GA-H67MA-USB3-B3// P35 Neo2-FR
Cooling Stock
Memory 10 GB DDR3 1333 // 3 GB DDR2
Video Card(s) Colorful iGame GeForce GTX1060 Vulcan U 6G // ASUS ENGT 220 1GD3
Storage Hitachi 500 GB, Sony 1TB, KINGSTON 400A 120GB // Samsung 160 GB
Display(s) HP 2009f
Case Xigmatek Asgard Pro // Cooler Master Centurion 5
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply OCZ ModXStream Pro 500 W
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores Minesweeper 30fps, Tetris 40 fps, with overheated CPU and GPU
Okay okay.... Intel, we get it
its from technical standpoint that I can't put KL chip onto your new chipset 300 series
clearly not from business motive at all
Gee I thought Intel was greedy company, turn out it wasn't
Thanks Intel /s
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
7,237 (1.97/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R7 3800X@4.350/525/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 @bios 2703/?
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu Monoblock Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in two sticks./16Gb
Video Card(s) Sapphire refference Rx vega 64 EK waterblocked/Rtx 2060
Storage Samsung Nvme Pg981, silicon power 1Tb samsung 840 basic as a primocache drive for, WD2Tbgrn +3Tbgrn,
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync, LG 49" 4K 60hz ,Oculus
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Iksu force fx
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Actually, when situations like this happen, there are usually pretty clear indications on the packaging or even on the boards themselves to warn users of potential problems. Also, retailers should have staff educated enough to avoid this sort of thing if purchases are made in person, but online purchases could be problematic. This can easily addressed though, by a small bit of code that asks questions when people make such purchases...
Your right , and were right but you aren't getting him , he means in a few years people will blow up second hand or old parts, probably true given the variety of intel chips and sockets around atm but not that important to oems or intel.
All in this is the first time intel has shown an imperical socket pin difference comparison like this , it's reasuring and reasonable , it's a shame imho they are not as clear consistently with specs and info but hopefully they might improve.
Oh and after a look at both pics just on a phone i think intels definitely just shown how easily it can puff out a bit of smoke and completely blind those that want to be, to just how devious they are..
Every chip has an interposer attached to its Beol this is a multi layer pcb chip mouting package that connects and defines all of the actual chips connections to the socket, some are virtually pass through , like memory channels others are not ,but this extremely important and unloved part of every chip is an easily changed part , the interposer costs significantly less to design and make then the chip.
It's a play for money in my book still ,but with at least some reasoning and fair play.
 
Last edited:

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
30,377 (6.52/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
We already know this, why is this news again?
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
5,096 (0.91/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MXVI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory 32GB Viper Steel 3600 DDR4 @ 3800MHz 16-19-16-19-36
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080 Gaming OC 8G
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 2TB Viper VPN100, 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/ztiub6
We already know this, why is this news again?
Because now we got the official explanation from Intel? It wasn't clear as to why older CPUs wouldn't work in the new boards, although this seems like a half assed excused imho.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
16,143 (3.14/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 2600x
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling AMD Wraith Spire I think
Memory 2 x 8GB G-skill Aegis 3000 or somesuch
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case Some old Antec
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + slightly modded Sony DR-ZX302
Power Supply Fractal Design Effekt 400W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX-Board 3.0
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores I once had +100 dorfs in DF, so yeah pretty great
Actually, when situations like this happen, there are usually pretty clear indications on the packaging or even on the boards themselves to warn users of potential problems. Also, retailers should have staff educated enough to avoid this sort of thing if purchases are made in person, but online purchases could be problematic. This can easily addressed though, by a small bit of code that asks questions when people make such purchases...
Yeah, that'll happen. Small piece of code. :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
4,143 (1.78/day)
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Gigabyte x470 AORUS Ultra Gamin
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Team T-Force Vulkan DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2060 Super Armor OC
Storage Adata SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case Chieftec AL-01B-OP
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Zalman K500 modded (Gateron brown)
Software Windows 10, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
We already know this, why is this news again?
Because there was no 8th gen datasheet available at that time.

This also confirms that it won't work the other way, either. 6th and 7th gen CPUs can't work in Z370 boards, even though they use the same 1151 socket. The new boards would either fry a 6700/7700, or refuse to boot. Strangely enough, they all have identical alignment notches, possibly allowing inexperienced builders to make this mistake. I predict some confusion in a few years, when people building from old parts (dead PCs) cobble together parts that look exactly the same, but are incompatible.
In the old forum thread we've discussed this thing: this is not something new, and it did happen in the past. Just like the confusion with many iterations of LGA775, just like sAM2/sAM2+/sAM3 etc. etc. etc.
I believe that the leaked picture of the 8th gen CPU retail box design already has a label "Requires 300-series motherboard" or something like that. Same goes for motherboards: all of them have QVL and compatibility lists. So, if someone sticks a wrong CPU in a wrong board/socket - it's their fault. There is no excuse for being illiterate. Plus, there will always be dummies who will stick LGA1155 CPU in an LGA1150 socket, bend PGAs, put TIM on the bottom of the CPU, or clean the debris from LGA socket with their fat dirty clumsy fingers, buy a $300 tablet for their 4 y.o. kid to watch cartoons, perform bend tests on their own smartphones, throwing electronic things into liquid or spilling liquid onto electronic things. If those people did not exist, I'd be out of job right now.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,180 (1.89/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
How difficult would it be to have identically formatted images :/
I get it, these are copypasted out of Intel's datasheet and glued together but still.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
476 (0.42/day)
Because now we got the official explanation from Intel? It wasn't clear as to why older CPUs wouldn't work in the new boards, although this seems like a half assed excused imho.
This isn't an official explanation.

"With these pins responsible for delivering power to the CPU cores, this may suggest"
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,212 (0.55/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair
Processor R5 3600 (PBO maxed, 73c temp limit, FCLK/UCLK 1833)
Motherboard Asus Prime X470 Pro
Cooling Heatkiller VI Pro, VPP755 V.3, XT45 240mm, 2xGentle Typhoon
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000c19 (b-die@3666 14-16/9-16-26-40 1.48v)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 Ti SC
Storage 860EVO 500GB, 660p 1TB, WD Red 3TB, and other stuff
Display(s) BenQ XL2430T, Dell P2417H
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s) Behringer Xenyx Q1002USB, ATH-M50x, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Logitech G502, Razer Gigantus
Keyboard Corsair K70 (MX Blues, dying blue lights)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
They are reserved pins, should have enabled them before

Zzzzzzzz
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,523 (0.63/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Intel i5 4460 / Thuban 1455T(Unlocked 645) @ 3.7GHz @ 1.30V / A6 7400K
Motherboard ASRock Z97 Extreme6 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 / ASUS FM2+
Cooling Modified AM2 Asetek MicroChill / Noctua U12S / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB Kingston KHX1866C10D3 / 16GB Adata 2133MHz / 8GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) GT 710 / XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX) / A6 7400K iGPU
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB, Samsung NVMe 250GB + more / Kingston 240GB + more / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / LG 42''
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Chieftec 560W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
And the 8 core model will be incompatible with 370 motherboards because Intel would use even more reserved pins with that model and when they where making the 6 core model they didn't knew they would use more pins with the 8 core model. So they regret they will have another incompatible platform again in less than a year. Also i5, i3 and Pentium processors, in the Coffee lake family, would also need more power than the top of the line Kaby Lake i7 processors, for stability and overclocking purposes, even the locked models, so it will be logical for those processors to also not work on 270 motherboards for example.

On the other hand they managed to fit an 18 core processor on a socket they where designing for 12 core processors, with no extra pins needed, having much higher power consumption than the 165W TDP limit of that socket. No problems there. But there they didn't wanted to compete with just a 12 core model against a 16 core model, at least from a marketing perspective neither had the time to create/market a new chipset/socket.

As I said in the past.
Does it has to do with Intel? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with Nvidia? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with AMD? The firing squad is ready.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,212 (0.55/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair
Processor R5 3600 (PBO maxed, 73c temp limit, FCLK/UCLK 1833)
Motherboard Asus Prime X470 Pro
Cooling Heatkiller VI Pro, VPP755 V.3, XT45 240mm, 2xGentle Typhoon
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000c19 (b-die@3666 14-16/9-16-26-40 1.48v)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 Ti SC
Storage 860EVO 500GB, 660p 1TB, WD Red 3TB, and other stuff
Display(s) BenQ XL2430T, Dell P2417H
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s) Behringer Xenyx Q1002USB, ATH-M50x, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Logitech G502, Razer Gigantus
Keyboard Corsair K70 (MX Blues, dying blue lights)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
That 3w TDP difference wew...

It's not like every overclocker has been running 200+ watts through this socket for ages...
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
349 (0.18/day)
System Name Marmo / Kanon
Processor Intel Core i5 6600K / Intel Core i7 9700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z270X-Gaming 5 / Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi
Cooling Thermalright TRUE Spirit 120M / Noctua NH-U12S
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 21300C16 / 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 21300C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX1080 Gaming+ X 11Gbps / EVGA RTX2080 Super Black
Storage Intel 760p 512GB, WD Blue 3D NAND 1TB / Samsung 970 Pro 512GB, 860 EVO 1TB
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp U2414H / Dell UltraSharp U2715H
Case Lian-Li PC-60FN / Lian-Li PC-9F
Audio Device(s) Onboard / Creative SB ZxR
Power Supply SeaSonic Platinum 660W / SeaSonic X 750W
Mouse Logitech MX310 / G1
Keyboard Logitech Navigator / G413
Software Win 8.1 Pro / Win 10 Pro
And the 8 core model will be incompatible with 370 motherboards because Intel would use even more reserved pins with that model and when they where making the 6 core model they didn't knew they would use more pins with the 8 core model. So they regret they will have another incompatible platform again in less than a year. Also i5, i3 and Pentium processors, in the Coffee lake family, would also need more power than the top of the line Kaby Lake i7 processors, for stability and overclocking purposes, even the locked models, so it will be logical for those processors to also not work on 270 motherboards for example.

On the other hand they managed to fit an 18 core processor on a socket they where designing for 12 core processors, with no extra pins needed, having much higher power consumption than the 165W TDP limit of that socket. No problems there. But there they didn't wanted to compete with just a 12 core model against a 16 core model, at least from a marketing perspective neither had the time to create/market a new chipset/socket.

As I said in the past.
Does it has to do with Intel? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with Nvidia? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with AMD? The firing squad is ready.
Well said.

While it is true now that CFL pin-out is technically different from SKL/KBL, it still doesn't change the fact that Intel delibrately designed those sockets in such ways because of greed.

This also pretty much confirms the rumor that 8-core CFL and Z390 would not be compatible with 6-core/Z370.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
196 (0.18/day)
Location
behind you
Processor Threadripper 1950X (4.0 GHz OC)
Motherboard ASRock X399 Professional Gaming
Cooling Enermax Liqtech TR4
Memory 48GB DDR4 2934MHz
Video Card(s) Nvidia GTX 1080, GTX 660TI
Storage 2TB Western Digital HDD, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD, 280GB Intel Optane 900P
Display(s) 2x 1920x1200
Power Supply Cooler Master Silent Pro M (1000W)
Mouse Microsoft wireless 3500
Keyboard Corsair K70 MK.2
Software Windows 10
In the old forum thread we've discussed this thing: this is not something new, and it did happen in the past. Just like the confusion with many iterations of LGA775, just like sAM2/sAM2+/sAM3 etc. etc. etc.
Intel's Slot 1 and AMD's Slot A also used the same connector but were very different electrically. I just thought we had moved beyond that stuff by now. LGA 2011 had three versions but all were keyed differently. You can't make something idiot proof but keying a socket differently is such an easy step.
 

Durvelle27

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
5,731 (2.03/day)
Location
Memphis, TN
System Name Black Prometheus
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @4.2GHz
Motherboard ASRock B350 Pro4
Cooling China Rock 4
Memory Oloy 32B(2x16GB) DDR4 3200MHz @3733MHz
Video Card(s) ASRock RX 5700 XT Challenger OC
Storage Sandisk X300 512GB + Seagate 3TB
Display(s) Acer ED323QUR ADIBPX 31.5" Curved 144Hz FreeSync
Case DeepCool Matrexx 55 w/ 3x120mm Intake + 4x120mm Exhaust
Audio Device(s) Samsung 5.1 Setup
Power Supply SilverStone 750W
Mouse Logitech Trackman
Keyboard Dell OEM
Software Windows 10 EDU x64
Because there was no 8th gen datasheet available at that time.


In the old forum thread we've discussed this thing: this is not something new, and it did happen in the past. Just like the confusion with many iterations of LGA775, just like sAM2/sAM2+/sAM3 etc. etc. etc.
I believe that the leaked picture of the 8th gen CPU retail box design already has a label "Requires 300-series motherboard" or something like that. Same goes for motherboards: all of them have QVL and compatibility lists. So, if someone sticks a wrong CPU in a wrong board/socket - it's their fault. There is no excuse for being illiterate. Plus, there will always be dummies who will stick LGA1155 CPU in an LGA1150 socket, bend PGAs, put TIM on the bottom of the CPU, or clean the debris from LGA socket with their fat dirty clumsy fingers, buy a $300 tablet for their 4 y.o. kid to watch cartoons, perform bend tests on their own smartphones, throwing electronic things into liquid or spilling liquid onto electronic things. If those people did not exist, I'd be out of job right now.
But AM2/AM2+ was cross compatibile just like AM3/AM3+
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,212 (0.55/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair
Processor R5 3600 (PBO maxed, 73c temp limit, FCLK/UCLK 1833)
Motherboard Asus Prime X470 Pro
Cooling Heatkiller VI Pro, VPP755 V.3, XT45 240mm, 2xGentle Typhoon
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000c19 (b-die@3666 14-16/9-16-26-40 1.48v)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 Ti SC
Storage 860EVO 500GB, 660p 1TB, WD Red 3TB, and other stuff
Display(s) BenQ XL2430T, Dell P2417H
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s) Behringer Xenyx Q1002USB, ATH-M50x, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Logitech G502, Razer Gigantus
Keyboard Corsair K70 (MX Blues, dying blue lights)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
But AM2/AM2+ was cross compatibile just like AM3/AM3+
Backwards compatibility of CPUs on older boards is not very useful in many cases.

Say Z68 boards supported Haswell CPUs and you had a Z68+2500k which you swapped for a 4790k. You would still be left without USB3.0, only 2 SATA3 ports, PCIe2.0, a small DMI bus, no m.2, more restrictive iGPU display configs. In those cases it would only be sensible to rewire the socket because you are now having to add new interfaces without removing the older ones which may not even be used on the newer socket, may require additional I/O on the CPU chip, etc... And as a user you would upgrade the board as well more often than not...

That said, in this case it's pretty stupid unless I've overlooked something on the diagrams that is actually changed... They added 14% extra Vccin connections for a chip that seems to draw only marginally more power in the first place, on a socket that seems to have no trouble running way out of power spec, on pins that were unused...
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
30,377 (6.52/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Backwards compatibility of CPUs on older boards is not very useful in many cases.

Say Z68 boards supported Haswell CPUs and you had a Z68+2500k which you swapped for a 4790k. You would still be left without USB3.0, only 2 SATA3 ports, PCIe2.0, a small DMI bus, no m.2, more restrictive iGPU display configs. In those cases it would only be sensible to rewire the socket because you are now having to add new interfaces without removing the older ones which may not even be used on the newer socket, may require additional I/O on the CPU chip, etc... And as a user you would upgrade the board as well more often than not...

That said, in this case it's pretty stupid unless I've overlooked something on the diagrams that is actually changed... They added 14% extra Vccin connections for a chip that seems to draw only marginally more power in the first place, on a socket that seems to have no trouble running way out of power spec, on pins that were unused...

Actually it is beneficial, 8100 vs 8300 series FX, 8300 fixed alot pertaining to single core performance, multicore was better too, plus didn't run nearly as hot, it was a drop in upgrade, not needing to change the mobo out helps save money.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
4,143 (1.78/day)
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Gigabyte x470 AORUS Ultra Gamin
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Team T-Force Vulkan DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2060 Super Armor OC
Storage Adata SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case Chieftec AL-01B-OP
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Zalman K500 modded (Gateron brown)
Software Windows 10, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
Backwards compatibility of CPUs on older boards is not very useful in many cases.
I'm talking about stupid people trying to run Piledrivers and Bulldozers on 10y.o. AM2/AM2+ boards in total disregard of an absent DDR2 memory controller and some major architectural changes.
If it fits it should work though? Right? It worked for Phenoms and stuff... :banghead:

P.S. I know, that you cannot do it backwards due to keying, but I've seen some people (clients) with bent CPU pins who tried to install their old CPU into a newer AM3/AM3+ board to save time and money.
P.P.S. People get upset when either Intel or AMD changes something, even though there was nothing engineeringly-challenging (gotta coin this term) to make it fully compatible with an old socket, but I still want to remind you all that it did happen in the past many times, and some of those even went unnoticed. At least today we have a "heads-up" message.

As I said in the past.
Does it has to do with Intel? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with Nvidia? Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Does it has to do with AMD? The firing squad is ready.
Oh... just stop with this "beating on AMD underdog" bullshit. All of those companies get their fair share of criticism, both reasonable and unreasonable.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,523 (0.63/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Intel i5 4460 / Thuban 1455T(Unlocked 645) @ 3.7GHz @ 1.30V / A6 7400K
Motherboard ASRock Z97 Extreme6 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 / ASUS FM2+
Cooling Modified AM2 Asetek MicroChill / Noctua U12S / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB Kingston KHX1866C10D3 / 16GB Adata 2133MHz / 8GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) GT 710 / XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX) / A6 7400K iGPU
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB, Samsung NVMe 250GB + more / Kingston 240GB + more / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / LG 42''
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Chieftec 560W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
You would still be left without USB3.0, only 2 SATA3 ports, PCIe2.0, a small DMI bus, no m.2, more restrictive iGPU display configs.
Maybe there are more examples to base your argument, but the fact is that full ATX boards have a number of PCI and PCIe slots for that reason. They are not there for decoration. You can add USB 3.0 in a PCie slot for less than $10, extra SATA ports for less than $10, M.2 adapters probably for less than $10. The iGPU limitations are irrelevant if you have a dedicated graphics card and the PCIe 2.0 bus is far from a limiting factor in most of those cases.

Oh... just stop with this "beating on AMD underdog" bullshit. All of those companies get their fair share of criticism, both reasonable and unreasonable.
Fair share? "Oh... just stop with this bullshit". In modern society talking about "fair shares" is synonym to naiveness.
 
Last edited:
Top