Intel Core i9-14900KS

[GothTrashPanda]

It absolutely will, the cross-CCD latency penalty affects the current hybrid system and this is why AMD literally had to write a custom scheduler driver. Having dual X3D CCDs would correct this scheduling problem by nature of the processor. Ryzen currently lacks hardware thread scheduling capability of Alder and Raptor Lake.

The true reason we don't get dual X3D Ryzens is that AMD wants to protect their high-end server business. Processors with that much cache fetch thousands upon thousands on the EPYC segment.

And the only reason we didn't have ECC, VROC and other features as standard is 100% Intel's fault. Has always been. Took a while to get ECC, not sure about VROC now after the disaster of needing to buy a key to do that.

And I quote Linus Torvalds:

And the memory manufacturers claim it's because of economics and lower power. And they are lying bastards—let me once again point to row-hammer about how those problems have existed for several generations already, but these f*ckers happily sold broken hardware to consumers and claimed it was an "attack," when it always was "we're cutting corners."

How many times has a row-hammer like bit-flip happened just by pure bad luck on real non-attack loads? We will never know. Because Intel was pushing shit to consumers.

From the same article

Torvalds takes the bold position that the lack of ECC RAM in consumer technology is Intel's fault due to the company's policy of artificial market segmentation. Intel has a vested interest in pushing deeper-pocketed businesses toward its more expensive—and profitable—server-grade CPUs rather than letting those entities effectively use the necessarily lower-margin consumer parts.

The community punishes AMD heavily for their sins, yet we look the other way when Intel does it. The consumer-grade Intel buyers, are a very vocal crowd.

But if we're going to talk about artificial market segmentation, AMD is much, much better than Intel, they don't have locked CPUs, they don't have locked motherboards, as a Kernel Contributor/Maintainer, I've had my fair share of issues with Intel. Don't even get me started on the transactional memory disaster.

I am an entitled buyer, and I will always be, everyone is entitled nowadays, corporations are entitled too, so I am following the crowd. And as an entitled buyer, I will keep voicing whenever I disagree, because I can, and I must, no one can stop me, and I am totally unable to stop the brand fanactics over there.

I own both AMD and Intel systems, I recently RMA'd my 13900K and I got myself a 14900K. Life goes on, if it is bad, it is bad, if it works, fine.

Why can't we all, as a community just be normal?

 

[dgianstefani]

Why can't we all, as a community just be normal?

Made me LOL.

TPU community -

Artificial product segmentation is bad yes, but it has always and will always exist in a profit driven market.

I think a bit of discussion is good even if it does get heated.

“The purpose of thinking is to let the ideas die instead of us dying.” Alfred Whitehead​

I also own both AMD and Intel, I like to try and objectively look at the advantages of each platform rather than pretend one is superior, whether that's technologically or morally.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I own both AMD and Intel systems, I recently RMA'd my 13900K and I got myself a 14900K. Life goes on, if it is bad, it is bad, if it works, fine.

Why can't we all, as a community just be normal?

So do I, but the problem lies with this image that AMD tries to keep of itself, that they're the "nice alternative", and that their ardent fanbase spreads as religion. Truth be told they're just like any other Fortune 500 megacorp and will do whatever it takes to come out on top.

 

[kapone32]

So do I, but the problem lies with this image that AMD tries to keep of itself, that they're the "nice alternative", and that their ardent fanbase spreads as religion. Truth be told they're just like any other Fortune 500 megacorp and will do whatever it takes to come out on top.

You do the same. I just happen to be over the moon with the performance of my current PC.

 

[Dr. Dro]

You do the same. I just happen to be over the moon with the performance of my current PC.

I never defended any company's "morality", I've been very consistent in saying the contrary - none of these companies are our friends or care about what we DIY consumers think. I'm glad you're happy with your PC, I wouldn't be, but that's the beauty of it - PCs are what you make of them

 

[GothTrashPanda]

So do I, but the problem lies with this image that AMD tries to keep of itself, that they're the "nice alternative", and that their ardent fanbase spreads as religion. Truth be told they're just like any other Fortune 500 megacorp and will do whatever it takes to come out on top.

What should AMD do then? Market themselves negatively? AMD is not perceived as "the nice alternative" because their marketing team decided so. They have, throughout decades, chosen many options that benefited consumers and developers alike. AMD's track record speaks for itself; it is not a secret, it is known.

I never defended any company's "morality", I've been very consistent in saying the contrary - none of these companies are our friends or care about what we DIY consumers think. I'm glad you're happy with your PC, I wouldn't be, but that's the beauty of it - PCs are what you make of them

You're being arrogant, condescending, clearly biased fairly typical of Intel's fanbase attitude. The way you voice yourself on the internet and this forum is extremely relevant, because that is all we have. I am not the smartest person, but I've been around long enough to see where you're coming from and what are your intentions. Iconoclasty does not exist in your dictionary, you accuse the AMD fanboys while it is crystal clear that you're defending your options and your personal choice over logic.

"I think we're moving toward a world where all the consumers under a certain age, will probably tend to identify more with their consumer status, with the products that they consume, than they would with an antiquated notion of nationality"
William Gibson, 1990.

I have yet to see a more biased audience than Intel's consumer-grade-i9-fanbase - they're a different kind of demon, when I bought the 10980XE I was heavily critized, the CPU was portrayed as being a total junk, because of high power consumption, and who were the main defenders of that "10980XE = Trash" thing? No, not the AMD fanbase, but the 9900K owners.

If you want to be perceived as agnostic and rational, act that way.

The stereotype of AMD fanboys as fanatical enemies of Intel purists is a recent invention. the passion of AMD supporters arises from years of enduring disdain and marginalization from certain quarters of the Intel camp, which is exactly what you have done just now.

You know how many of you I have seen? I have seen thousands upon thousands of 'you' out there. If there is a crowd here, you're part of it. Don't see yourself as the rational iconoclast; you can't do that. Be better, act better.

I'm glad you're happy with your PC, I wouldn't be

Despicable.

 

[kapone32]

I never defended any company's "morality", I've been very consistent in saying the contrary - none of these companies are our friends or care about what we DIY consumers think. I'm glad you're happy with your PC, I wouldn't be, but that's the beauty of it - PCs are what you make of them

If none of these companies cared what we thought, the 14900KS would never have been released.

 

[Dr. Dro]

If none of these companies cared what we thought, the 14900KS would never have been released.

What kind of twisted logic is that? Just look at its media coverage. Almost everyone is calling it an utterly pointless product. Hardware Unboxed was particularly harsh. Yet it was released anyway

What should AMD do then? Market themselves negatively? AMD is not perceived as "the nice alternative" because their marketing team decided so. They have, throughout decades, chosen many options that benefited consumers and developers alike. AMD's track record speaks for itself; it is not a secret, it is known.


You're being arrogant, condescending, clearly biased fairly typical of Intel's fanbase attitude. The way you voice yourself on the internet and this forum is extremely relevant, because that is all we have. I am not the smartest person, but I've been around long enough to see where you're coming from and what are your intentions. Iconoclasty does not exist in your dictionary, you accuse the AMD fanboys while it is crystal clear that you're defending your options and your personal choice over logic.



I have yet to see a more biased audience than Intel's consumer-grade-i9-fanbase - they're a different kind of demon, when I bought the 10980XE I was heavily critized, the CPU was portrayed as being a total junk, because of high power consumption, and who were the main defenders of that "10980XE = Trash" thing? No, not the AMD fanbase, but the 9900K owners.

If you want to be perceived as agnostic and rational, act that way.

The stereotype of AMD fanboys as fanatical enemies of Intel purists is a recent invention. the passion of AMD supporters arises from years of enduring disdain and marginalization from certain quarters of the Intel camp, which is exactly what you have done just now.

You know how many of you I have seen? I have seen thousands upon thousands of 'you' out there. If there is a crowd here, you're part of it. Don't see yourself as the rational iconoclast; you can't do that. Be better, act better.


Despicable.

I don't even know where to begin with you, but let's go:

1. No, just market themselves honestly. It was way worse when their marketing guy was Robert Hallock, though, and funnily enough he's working at Intel now. But instead we got a series of nonsense such as that supposed "BIOS ROM size limitation" on AM4 in an attempt to upsell hardware, I had to replace my perfectly working Crosshair VI motherboard because they intentionally withheld X370 support for almost a year, or TRX40 being aborted mid-way and never seeing Zen 3 to begin with... I know people who purchased TRX40 systems and got hosed big time.

2. What on Earth are you on about? Take some time to actually read my posts over time before you make such accusations.

3. ??? simply because I bought a Core i9 it doesn't mean that I have an allegiance to Intel, my previous build had a Ryzen 9 5950X, I just buy whatever I feel like is the coolest option at the time.

4. No, it is not a recent invention. This is called clubism, and it's the same thing that drives people to be fans of a football club or another sports team. It's a feeling driven by emotional investment, whether due to social pressure or a feeling of accomplishment, and it usually gets out of hand fast. Disdain and marginalization? Come on now. It's just some computer hardware. End of the day, no one cares about what's in your box but yourself. Play a little, but never play too rough. Again, since I don't use Linux, I couldn't care less about the moral grandstanding of "we love open source!" amongst others, so it's completely irrelevant to me

5. What's despicable about not liking his PC build? I certainly would have spent my money differently: even if were I building using only AMD parts, it'd be 7800X3D+7900XTX instead of 7900X3D+7900XT (it would be cheaper and perform better at games), but again, like I said, it's the beauty of it: PC builds are what their owners make of them. I chose to buy Intel and NVIDIA this time. I felt that Raptor Lake was a better processor than Zen 4, and having hands-on experience with Zen 2 and Zen 3 as well as AMD's behavior handling their previous generation platform, I also clearly had other reasons. They offered me a better product and got my patronage. That's about it.

 

[kapone32]

What kind of twisted logic is that? Just look at its media coverage. Almost everyone is calling it an utterly pointless product. Hardware Unboxed was particularly harsh. Yet it was released anyway

What does the media coverage have to with Intel releasing a CPU to try to beat the 7950X? Why can you not appreciate that Intel wants it's market share back and as such have released a CPU that they market as the fastest? I guess the processor does not get released unless it has a positive day one review? Where is the logic in that? It is like the person you keep liking of his posts means nothing to the conversation much less all of the traffic any thread that has 14900KS in the title has created.

 

[Dr. Dro]

What does the media coverage have to with Intel releasing a CPU to try to beat the 7950X? Why can you not appreciate that Intel wants it's market share back and as such have released a CPU that they market as the fastest? I guess the processor does not get released unless it has a positive day one review? Where is the logic in that? It is like the person you keep liking of his posts means nothing to the conversation much less all of the traffic any thread that has 14900KS in the title has created.

Overall, Intel beat the 7950X a very long time ago. What it hasn't conclusively beat is the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D, and that's only because of a combination of 3D V-cache + optimal topology. That's all.

 

[kapone32]

5. What's despicable about not liking his PC build? I certainly would have spent my money differently: even if were I building using only AMD parts, it'd be 7800X3D+7900XTX instead of 7900X3D+7900XT (it would be cheaper and perform better at games), but again, like I said, it's the beauty of it: PC builds are what their owners make of them. I chose to buy Intel and NVIDIA this time. I felt that Raptor Lake was a better processor than Zen 4, and having hands-on experience with Zen 2 and Zen 3 as well as AMD's behavior handling their previous generation platform, I also clearly had other reasons. They offered me a better product and got my patronage. That's about it.

I do not like that this thread has been derailed but I have no choice but to respond to this. The 7900XTX is about 7% faster than the 7900XT. Both will give you over 100 FPS in just about every Game native at 4K and yes I have had them both. Now let's talk about CPUs, the 5800X3D is faster in Gaming than the 5900X but you know where it is slower? in feel. I am willing to bet the same thing exists for the 7900X vs the 7700X but AM5 X3D dual CCD chips are different. The fact that one CCD does not have Vcache is actually an advantage over the single CCD chip as that chip cannot do 5.65 GHZ on 6 cores. Now how many CPU cores does the average Game use to render the Game itself? Yeah I thought so. That is why the 14900KS is seen faster than the 7800X3D is some Games that focus on clock speed over Vcache. Now let's talk about price. The 7900X3D was $699 and the 7800X3D was $549. That is a $150 difference, The 7900XT was $1299 and the 7900XTX $1699. That is a difference of $400. I am glad that you think your PC is great but please stop talking like you know what AM5 CPUs are like, much less a CPU that has not even been reviewed on TPU. Once again go and read some user reviews for the 7900X3D on Newegg or Amazon and see the folly in your words. Now can we get back to the thread please.

 

[Shatun_Bear]

Absolutely pathetic product when you consider that power draw Intel needs to still lose gaming performance. I think the way Intel are increasing performance is a dead end. This confirms it, time to copy what AMD is doing.

 

[demirael]

Nice swansong for monolithic.

View attachment 338997


That was referencing when tuned.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...ke-tested-at-power-limits-down-to-35-w/8.html TPU testing shows tuned 14900K indeed being the most efficient. Note this is a simple tune, power limit only. More involved tuning together with a per core overclock and specified voltages will offer good frequencies and in many cases better than stock performance, while also improving efficiency. View attachment 338998

That comparison makes no sense unless you test other CPUs at 35W too. EVERY CPU is more efficient when running lower than stock power limit.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

I came here for the quality content from the other thread deemed unsatisfactory by one moderator....

 

[A Computer Guy]

Holy $hit
View attachment 338996

My Core2Quad Q6600 pulls 160 watts (system) when simultaneously ripping 4 DVD's.
After realizing this I don't see the problem with 14900KS anymore?

 

[azrael]

I know I'm late to the party, but reading this review makes me think of all those derogatory remarks Intel made about Ryzen. Now, this is the end of the line for their monolithic chips and Intel also will move to chiplets (or tiles or whatever they want to call it). I guess Intelliglue (tm) will make the difference compared to AMD's offerings (this statement might contain a hint of sarcasm).

 

[Dr. Dro]

I know I'm late to the party, but reading this review makes me think of all those derogatory remarks Intel made about Ryzen. Now, this is the end of the line for their monolithic chips and Intel also will move to chiplets (or tiles or whatever they want to call it). I guess Intelliglue (tm) will make the difference compared to AMD's offerings (this statement might contain a hint of sarcasm).

No, there's no sarcasm, just a grudge and a whole lot of resentment, actually. As if AMD marketing was comprised of saints and that company not once lied to customers for its advantage, or made fun of their competition - ever.

Intel's skipping 2D chiplets, unless you count aberrations such as Kaby-G "chiplets" (even though EMIB can hardly fall into that category). Meteor Lake onwards uses Foveros 3D packaging.

 

[azrael]

No, there's no sarcasm, just a grudge and a whole lot of resentment, actually. As if AMD marketing was comprised of saints and that company not once lied to customers for its advantage, or made fun of their competition - ever.

I never claimed AMD were comprised of saints, far from it. They do however, at least to me, seem a bit more customer-friendly than Intel. By default they don't fuse off features of their CPUs and let you pay extra for them. And some of those derogatory remarks about the Ryzen came from Pat Gelsinger.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

rear view mirror ... just reminding ...

 

[dgianstefani]

No, there's no sarcasm, just a grudge and a whole lot of resentment, actually. As if AMD marketing was comprised of saints and that company not once lied to customers for its advantage, or made fun of their competition - ever.

Intel's skipping 2D chiplets, unless you count aberrations such as Kaby-G "chiplets" (even though EMIB can hardly fall into that category). Meteor Lake onwards uses Foveros 3D packaging.

View attachment 340136

Yup, Foveros is a whole other level compared to 2D chiplets without a proper interposer, i.e. Zen 1 through 5. Hence the idle issues Zen has and the difficulty scaling up IF (and therefore RAM) frequency, which will apparently be fixed in Zen 6 with a new packaging tech from TSMC. Hopefully that's still on AM5 but we'll see.

I like that Intel took the time to move to chiplets tiles properly, and dialed in the design with Meteor Lake on mobile CPUs first, before bringing it to the higher performance desktop. Arrow Lake/Gen 15 Core will also be introducing RibbonFET/Gate All Around Transistors, and backside power delivery, both very significant for performance and power efficiency.

Besides, the AMD fans criticising Intel's old tech isn't as much of a "so there" as they might think. The fact Intel has remained competitive on it's own process node for so many years, plus the Skylake++++++ era, is also a criticism of AMD, for not leaving Intel in the dust with AMD's use of leading edge TSMC nodes.

I never claimed AMD were comprised of saints, far from it. They do however, at least to me, seem a bit more customer-friendly than Intel. By default they don't fuse off features of their CPUs and let you pay extra for them. And some of those derogatory remarks about the Ryzen came from Pat Gelsinger.

You don't get to play that game when you're the underdog with extremely low market share.

Hence why AMD shouldn't be playing games with RDNA (pun not intended), when they have ~10-15% marketshare.

You'd best believe AMD would be more aggressively price segmenting their products if they had the upper hand, we saw this briefly with Zen 3. We also saw this with Threadripper vs Threadripper Pro. Or the abandoning of sockets such as TRX40.

These are corporations with shareholders, not friendly neighbourhood charity workers.

 

[azrael]

Besides, the AMD fans criticising Intel's old tech isn't as much of a "so there" as they might think. The fact Intel has remained competitive on it's own process node for so many years, plus the Skylake++++++ era, is also a criticism of AMD, for not leaving Intel in the dust with AMD's use of leading edge TSMC nodes.

You don't get to play that game when you're the underdog with extremely low market share.

Hence why AMD shouldn't be playing games with RDNA (pun not intended), when they have ~10-15% marketshare.

You'd best believe AMD would be more aggressively price segmenting their products if they had the upper hand, we saw this briefly with Zen 3.

These are corporations with shareholders, not friendly neighbourhood charity workers.

Pat Gelsinger isn't an Intel fan. He's Intel's friggin' CEO. What fans do I couldn't care less about. There will always be rivalry. Warranted or not.

As for AMD segmenting, last I checked they tried to price-gouge back with Zen 3, but they didn't fuse off features. That's a big difference. Corporations will always try to fleece you of all the money they can. Anyone who doesn't know this hasn't been in the game long enough.

 

[dgianstefani]

Pat Gelsinger isn't an Intel fan. He's Intel's friggin' CEO. What fans do I couldn't care less about. There will always be rivalry. Warranted or not.

As for AMD segmenting, last I checked they tried to price-gouge back with Zen 3, but they didn't fuse off features. That's a big difference. Corporations will always try to fleece you of all the money they can. Anyone who doesn't know this hasn't been in the game long enough.

TR Vs TR Pro were good examples of segmented chips. AFAIK there was no physical reason why TR couldn't have the "Pro" features TR Pro did, it was pure segmentation (I'm not talking about additional RAM/PCIe channels that came with WRX80 and the higher core count variants). Some of the TR Pro chips were also locked to the OEM motherboards they came with, making it basically impossible to sell the CPU on it's own, had to be sold as a system. I'm not saying that Intel selling the same silicon, but one variant with ECC RAM support unlocked, is a good thing, but I'm also not imagining that AMD is any better. They've just not had the marketshare and influence to be able to pull stuff like that off.

Same socket, different features.

PSB Vendor Locking, not just for Threadripper either, any "pro" chip -
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/rpuqj9

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Yup, Foveros is a whole other level compared to 2D chiplets without a proper interposer, i.e. Zen 1 through 5. Hence the idle issues Zen has and the difficulty scaling up IF (and therefore RAM) frequency, which will apparently be fixed in Zen 6 with a new packaging tech from TSMC. Hopefully that's still on AM5 but we'll see.

I like that Intel took the time to move to chiplets tiles properly, and dialed in the design with Meteor Lake on mobile CPUs first, before bringing it to the higher performance desktop. Arrow Lake/Gen 15 Core will also be introducing RibbonFET/Gate All Around Transistors, and backside power delivery, both very significant for performance and power efficiency.

Besides, the AMD fans criticising Intel's old tech isn't as much of a "so there" as they might think. The fact Intel has remained competitive on it's own process node for so many years, plus the Skylake++++++ era, is also a criticism of AMD, for not leaving Intel in the dust with AMD's use of leading edge TSMC nodes.


You don't get to play that game when you're the underdog with extremely low market share.

Hence why AMD shouldn't be playing games with RDNA (pun not intended), when they have ~10-15% marketshare.

View attachment 340139

You'd best believe AMD would be more aggressively price segmenting their products if they had the upper hand, we saw this briefly with Zen 3. We also saw this with Threadripper vs Threadripper Pro. Or the abandoning of sockets such as TRX40.

These are corporations with shareholders, not friendly neighbourhood charity workers.

Good post all around.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Pat Gelsinger isn't an Intel fan. He's Intel's friggin' CEO. What fans do I couldn't care less about. There will always be rivalry. Warranted or not.

As for AMD segmenting, last I checked they tried to price-gouge back with Zen 3, but they didn't fuse off features. That's a big difference. Corporations will always try to fleece you of all the money they can. Anyone who doesn't know this hasn't been in the game long enough.

AMD's the company offering consumer-grade CPUs at $1500-$5000 range, after all. If we're talking about a fleece, look no further.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

AMD's the company offering consumer-grade CPUs at $1500-$5000 range, after all. If we're talking about a fleece, look no further.

If no one bought them, they'd be skint.