Intel Core Ultra 9 185H - PROCHOT

[dlovespuddin]

Hello World!

I'm coming in hot with a curio. I just purchased a 2024 Asus Zephyrus G16 w/4090, Intel Core Ultra 9 185H, and 32mb of ram and noticed it pretty regularly triggers PROCHOT at 95C when CPU is idling, web browsing, or just doing regular things between 35-70C. It also fires it much higher temps, but curious why it flashes at low temps and is that throttling my CPU?

Now they say the Intel Core Ultra 9 185H can reach max temp of 110C over its predecessor at 100C, and yet the BD PROCHOT is set to 95C...

As you can tell in the picture attached its [unchecked] and greyed out here so I can't fiddle with it unless I change its temperature settings in Options.

Anyone have thoughts? Should I be concerned or is this just normal behavior?

 

[unclewebb]

the BD PROCHOT is set to 95C

BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT (processor hot) are two different things that have nothing to do with each other.

As you can tell in the picture attached its [unchecked] and greyed out

What is unchecked and greyed out? The BD PROCHOT box appears to be checked and greyed out. That means the BD PROCHOT feature is enabled and locked so it cannot be disabled.

max temp of 110C

That is correct. The Intel docs show that the Core Ultra 9 185H has a Max Operating Temperature of 110°C.

Intel® Core™ Ultra 9 processor 185H (24M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ Ultra 9 processor 185H (24M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

Intel also says that the, "Maximum observable temperature is configurable by system vendor and can be design specific." That means Asus can choose to lower the maximum temperature when thermal throttling begins. Post a screenshot of the ThrottleStop Options window. It is likely that Asus has set a PROCHOT Offset value of 15. That would tell the CPU to start thermal throttling at 95°C (110°C - 15) instead of the full 110°C that Intel says is OK.

A hot CPU that occasionally needs to thermal throttle is OK according to Intel. I prefer a robust and capable cooling solution but that costs money and cuts into profit margins.

curious why it flashes at low temps

I know the engineers at Lenovo thought it would be a cool idea at times to lower the PROCHOT thermal throttling temperature to something ridiculous like 65°C. This was there zero cost way of creating a cool running CPU. Most consumers were none the wiser when performance tanked because of constant thermal throttling at very low temperatures. I have no idea what Asus is up to. Perhaps they are also adjusting the thermal throttling temperature on the fly.

If the PROCHOT Offset setting in the Options window does not show a lock icon, you can set PROCHOT Offset to any value you like. ThrottleStop includes a feature that lets you lock the PROCHOT Offset value. This feature will help prevent manufacturers from doing dumb stuff to the thermal throttling temperature.

FYI - ThrottleStop 9.6 does not officially support the new Core Ultra processors. Most things look like they are working OK but I can see a few things like the Limit Reasons feature being disabled on these new CPUs. It could be years before I ever get my hands on a computer with a Core Ultra processor for testing purposes. Let me know if you see anything in ThrottleStop that looks completely crazy. PROCHOT lighting up red on the main screen is likely working correctly. There are multiple temperature sensors located throughout the CPU package. When lightly loaded, the peak CPU package temperature may not be coming from one of the individual cores.

 

[vgm]

Hello World!

I'm coming in hot with a curio. I just purchased a 2024 Asus Zephyrus G16 w/4090, Intel Core Ultra 9 185H, and 32mb of ram and noticed it pretty regularly triggers PROCHOT at 95C when CPU is idling, web browsing, or just doing regular things between 35-70C. It also fires it much higher temps, but curious why it flashes at low temps and is that throttling my CPU?

Now they say the Intel Core Ultra 9 185H can reach max temp of 110C over its predecessor at 100C, and yet the BD PROCHOT is set to 95C...

As you can tell in the picture attached its [unchecked] and greyed out here so I can't fiddle with it unless I change its temperature settings in Options.

Anyone have thoughts? Should I be concerned or is this just normal behavior?

Pretty sure it's Asus's power profile. Try running with Quiet or Balance. High and Extreme Perf simply pushes more watts causing temps to hit 99C instantly. Check if it can be replaced by open source community software that ROG/Zephy works. Download link here
Check for BIOS updates from Asus. Disable BIOS updates from Windows updates which also applies last year's model g16 or even mismatched firmware causing black screen.

 

[dlovespuddin]

What is unchecked and greyed out? The BD PROCHOT box appears to be checked and greyed out. That means the BD PROCHOT feature is enabled and locked so it cannot be disabled.

Sorry yes, it was hard to see the [check] in the box, but you are indeed correct.

BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT (processor hot) are two different things that have nothing to do with each other.

Got it so then focusing this on PROCHOT question seems more appropriate here.

Pretty sure it's Asus's power profile. Try running with Quiet or Balance. High and Extreme Perf simply pushes more watts causing temps to hit 99C instantly. Check if it can be replaced by open source community software that ROG/Zephy works. Download link here
Check for BIOS updates from Asus. Disable BIOS updates from Windows updates which also applies last year's model g16 or even mismatched firmware causing black screen.

I was reading about Asus having different power profiles actually for the 2024 G16. Turns out the Turbo mode is not the highest performance profile windows would go to, which imo would only exacerbate this issue as it would be hotter. I actually edited G-helper to test the new higher profile and I get a lot more power, but then it gets hotter, throttles, etc. Fun fact, I get power limiting alarms under intense loads (benchmark/gaming) in ThrottleStop from both Asus and Windows max power profiles, just a lot more often with Windows max one.

Power Profile: Ultimate Performance for those interested

As for the bios, I went ahead and saw there was a recent as of a week ago, which I completed direct from Asus, but nothing in the update made it sound like it was anything but ui/functionality update.

lower the PROCHOT thermal throttling temperature to something ridiculous like 65°C

Well so this got me thinking perhaps this was the case. I went ahead tinkered with the Options settings for PROCHOT Offset adjusting it from [15] -> [10] and then [check] Lock PROCHOT Offset to keep it from changing again and restarted.

I set the fans to max and tried a few power profiles logging activity on HWiNFO64 to see if the problem persisted.

I ran Balanced for 10min and Best Performance w/CPU Boost Aggressive for 20min, excel log attached while just web browsing/idling.

Summary:
Balanced had 2 events
Best Performance w/CPU Boost aggressive had 38 events

I'm sure you all are better at reading the logs than I, but I do not see where the temps would reach over 100C for either test. That being said, since the locking and adjusting of the PROCHOT these events, although I didnt log before hand, are happening far less often by just watching it myself. So either Asus was stuck at some arbitrary lower setting before and now that I set it to 100C and locked it, its actually 100C now or allowing it to creep that extra 5C made it far less frequent.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. If you like I can run benchmarks and log on HWiNFO64 to provide those results as well if they would be useful.

 

[career]

I'm sure you all are better at reading the logs than I, but I do not see where the temps would reach over 100C for either test.

Unlike a few others, Asus usually put lower PROCHOT value in their units. I have seen PHOCHOT value 105 degrees in Asus out of the box only once, though that model had AMD r9-7945hx.

If you are interested in laptops that are engeneered to perform its CPU best with minimum throttling, especially in CPU only workload, you should definitely look at XMG Neo 16, Alienware X16/M16/M18, MSI Titan or some of Lenovo's Pro. Heard that some chinese laptops also can operate at maximum Intel's PROCHET value. Most of the rest laptops in the market these days have performance balance shifted to GPU. Optimisation covers all stuff from cooling system to programmed modes in EC (Embedded Controller).

In case of Asus, it may not be safe to use "0" for PROCHOT Offset because Asus' EC would anyway enforce BDPROCHET at certain temperature which trigger red BD PRO domain in TS Limits window along with significantly performance degradation in the moment.

If you are lucky enough with your CPU unit and having well-applied thermal paste etc, you may go and try to lower your PROCHOT Offset to get maximum power draw out of your laptop under heavy workload.

To do that, you may follow these steps:
- Set Ultimate Performance power plan, enable one like "Performance" in Armoury Crate and use only auto fan mode. Not turbo mode when they are constanty spinning, but the one where they will speed up on demand only!
- Close unnecessary software, unused windows, or everything else that eats up system resources. If you have some antivirus software installed except Windows Defender, turn it off either.
- Uncheck Lock PHOCHET and for the first time set Offset to 10 (like it is currently on your screenshot). Restart your laptop, open TS and go to TS Bench. During bench look after what happening in TS Limits window, what domains are going to red and how often this is happening. Keep an eye on CPU clock, if it is sufficiently decreasing (ie throttling) or not.
- If it is okay, you may continue to lower PROCHET Offset value and testing it simultaneously. Once you see red BD PRO (BDPROCHET) in TS Limits window during bench, it is good place to stop and revert Offset to the last safe value.

In case Intel Core Ultra, within ThrottleStop you may try to do following extra tweaks:
- For that series of CPU there no undervolt is provided, so forget about FIVR.
- In main TS window uncheck SpeedStep and C1E, check Speed Shift EPP and set it to "0", then press Save button.
- In Options: check Nvidia GPU box, check Windows Defender Boost box if you have it installed, set "0" to AC Timer Res, then and press Ok button.
- In C1 window: uncheck any boxes with Demotion/Undemotion stuff, check C States AC, check Off on the right side, then press OK button. Once it is done, that would mean you have C-States disabled. For laptops it works a way different unlike for desktop PC, but surely it works nevetheless.
- In TPL window you may increase of even put to unlimit both Intel's Power Limits (PL1 and PL2). Moreover, there you may enable and test Speed Shift option.

As example, ready to use screenshots with settings for main TS window, C1 window, and TPL window are provided.

Other settings for you to consider to get maximum from the laptop.

For GPU.
Nvidia Inspector https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-inspector/. It is very simple and intuitive like ThrottleStop is. Allows you to overclock your GPU and setup some parameters, but you cannot use it to undervolt since no curve editor is provided.
Asus GPU Tweak III (official) https://www.asus.com/campaign/GPU-Tweak-III/aa/index.php. You can use it to undervolt (via curve) or overclock your GPU.
EVGA Precision X1 https://www.evga.com/precisionx1/Default.asp. You can use it to undervolt (via curve) or overclock your GPU.
MSI Afterburner https://www.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards. You can use it to undervolt (via curve) or overclock your GPU.

For CPU and whole system.
See this as concrete example or how-to https://rutube.ru/video/c4c9196815b8d43ada1d8d8aed8c1801/. Unfortunately, that video was hosted at YouTube in the firstplace, but now it seems that author's channel is no longer exist so as his other socials like Twitch and Twitter. Somebody reuploaded it to new video hosting.

Be noted, no matter what you do, set, or tweak, there is no way you can go beyond Asus' EC predefined limits. Indeed, your laptop will be working faster than by default, although in terms of performance and optimisation possibilities this is not even close to what you get with laptops like XMG Neo 16 based on open platform like Clevo which provides fully customizable bios, top-end cooling solutions, any of overclock/undervolt possibilities existed. All above comes with deep explanation, suggestions and community help.

Do screenshots while testing containing temperatures, Limits window and wattage. This way, for people around it will be much neater to help you.