Intel Facing Lots of Returns !

[Stephen.]

It appears intel is facing lots of returns due to 13th/14th gen fiasco.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Like I said before everything.... Driver crash, CTD, BSOD, will be blamed on the intel cpu now. The part that is usually the last one somebody suspects is the culprit.

 

[Zach_01]

Like I said before everything.... Driver crash, CTD, BSOD, will be blamed on the intel cpu now. The part that is usually the last one somebody suspects is the culprit.

Sure, most likely. And those will be send back. Will make the life even harder for those that actually have issues as their RMA storage will flood with CPUs.
Maybe Intel shouldn't let board vendors push its products over nominal operation so that they can be on the chart side by side with AMD.
They should've stayed 2nd for this round.

I cannot believe that the great Intel (was...is, its upon debate right now) didnt know about the elevated voltages for so long since 13th gen.
To me it was a bet that has been lost.

When nVidia is coming out publicly and blaming Intel for GPU driver crashes (and other companies too for other reasons) then the issue is real and way beyond the regular failure rate that all products have.
My first 5900X was defective and RMAed. It happens everywhere yes. But this is something else.
In TPU maybe there are not many (if any) examples because I take it that people in here know what they're doing.
But of course these matters should not be left to the hands of the users. Any chip designer should first protect the longevity/reliability of its products with safety features that are actually enabled and not just on paper/specs.

They brought this to themselves alone

 

[Ruru]

The part that is usually the last one somebody suspects is the culprit.

Reminds me when I had a Pentium G4560 with one defective core.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Sure, most likely. And those will be send back. Will make the life even harder for those that actually have issues as their RMA storage will flood with CPUs.
Maybe Intel shouldn't let board vendors push its products over nominal operation so that they can be on the chart side by side with AMD.
They should've stayed 2nd for this round.

I cannot believe that the great Intel (was...is, its upon debate right now) didnt know about the elevated voltages for so long since 13th gen.
To me it was a bet that has been lost.

When nVidia is coming out publicly and blaming Intel for GPU driver crashes (and other companies too for other reasons) then the issue is real and way beyond the regular failure rate that all products have.
My first 5900X was defective and RMAed. It happens everywhere yes. But this is something else.
In TPU maybe there are not many (if any) examples because I take it that people in here know what they're doing.
But of course these matters should not be left to the hands of the users. Any chip designer should first protect the longevity/reliability of its products with safety features that are actually enabled and not just on paper/specs.

They brought this to themselves alone

Both scenario are terrible for intel

Scenario one they knew it was an issue and did nothing.

Scenario two they didn't know there was an issue and are completely incompetent with their own silicon.

I think its the latter personally and they probably thought making more strict power limits and fixing the oxidation issues was enough.

Yeah, they've created a huge issue with RMAs that'll likely negatively affect those with real issue due to getting RMAs over non cpu issues.

 

[R0H1T]

It appears intel is facing lots of returns due to 13th/14th gen fiasco.

View attachment 359175

The only issue I have is that a lot of times in such cases genuine returns may get affected due to scammers. I haven't ever had to return any CPU, or board, but electronics returns over the years have gotten more complicated & a lot less user friendly because of such "unscrupulous" elements

Hope Intel doesn't deny genuine returns just because a few bad ones got through!

Kinda like the saying 'Let a hundred guilty be acquitted, but one innocent should not be convicted'.

 

[Zach_01]

Both scenario are terrible for intel

Scenario one they knew it was an issue and did nothing.

Scenario two they didn't know there was an issue and are completely incompetent with their own silicon.

I think its the latter personally and they probably thought making more strict power limits and fixing the oxidation issues was enough.

Yeah, they've created a huge issue with RMAs that'll likely negatively affect those with real issue due to getting RMAs over non cpu issues.

Cant rule out anything as the cause of this mess.
Depends though on how every individual is taking it.
From a good faith perspective or not.
Clearly I dont when it comes to these big@ss corporations that number 1 goal is profit margins.
I work in one (not so big and on totally different field) in my country and I'm seeing every day how management deals with everything in the name of margins.

 

[Ferrum Master]

People do it for the sake of doing it. Even if there are no current problems, they think damage is still done...

 

[W1zzard]

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

 

[oxrufiioxo]

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

I can picture 5 people in 3 different countries trying to handle the RMAs especially after they plan on cutting so many jobs.

Man it's been a rough couple years in tech especially on the gaming side.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I can picture 5 people in 3 different countries trying to handle the RMAs especially after they plan on cutting so many jobs.

Everything RMA related is outsourced and handled by different companies... every bloody where... not sure why people think it is like that... same like with that ASUS GN case...

The crucial part here is not the amount of people, but logistics and spare part deficiency... they have no replacement SKUs at the needed amount and backorder is created. The swap process itself is made in few minutes.

 

[Assimilator]

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

AKA "fuck you peons, we already got your money, now take whatever scraps we give you".

This is why the fanboys on this forum disgust me. Megacorporations don't care about you, why on earth do you stan for them? Parasocial weirdos.

 

[Ferrum Master]

This is why the fanboys on this forum disgust me. Megacorporations don't care about you, why on earth do you stan for them? Parasocial weirdos.

Well I kinda like how Valve operates... if you can call it Mega...

 

[Vayra86]

Both scenario are terrible for intel

Scenario one they knew it was an issue and did nothing.

Scenario two they didn't know there was an issue and are completely incompetent with their own silicon.

I think its the latter personally and they probably thought making more strict power limits and fixing the oxidation issues was enough.

Yeah, they've created a huge issue with RMAs that'll likely negatively affect those with real issue due to getting RMAs over non cpu issues.

I think its a bit of both honestly, you don't arrive here because you didn't know, that just doesn't exist in this corporate space.

I think they knew it was an issue, but they took a calculated risk. Except their calculations were already skewed by several generations of pushing the boundaries and optimizing every bit around the CPU itself (generally not with the greatest results, think of the IHS changes, and it warping, etc.) to allow more power to be pulled through. Its a similar fiasco, to me, as the 12VHPWR cable. In theory the cable is fine and the connection is fine, but because the tolerances are so thin now, even the slightest deviation from the design (and 'optimal user care') is straight up trouble. With their CPUs they went for the edge of tolerances before they outright degrade out of the box, but obviously every chip is different and apparently different enough to cross that edge.

Its a sign of a company that has clearly ran out of good ideas. Its a sign of desperation, and an arrogant unwillingness to lose a perceived leadership position. The benefit of the doubt doesn't exist here, in my book. Its a big company. There MUST have been voices, a lot of them, mostly from the experts in the field, that certain moves in the recent generations/designs were not safe or good moves forward. And those voices have been silenced or weren't deemed important enough. Its unimaginable that Intel didn't know, just no. They even fab their own shit!

 

[Assimilator]

Its a sign of a company that has clearly ran out of good ideas. Its a sign of desperation, and an arrogant unwillingness to lose a perceived leadership position. The benefit of the doubt doesn't exist here, in my book. Its a big company. There MUST have been voices, a lot of them, mostly from the experts in the field, that certain moves in the recent generations/designs were not safe or good moves forward. And those voices have been silenced or weren't deemed important enough. Its unimaginable that Intel didn't know, just no. They even fab their own shit!

This is what ultimately happens at all engineering companies that allow accountants to take control over engineers (see also: Boeing).

It's also why capitalism ultimately destroys everything it touches, because the end-game is that the balance between "profit" and "quality" ultimately stops being a balance, and instead is skewed only towards the former.

 

[Zach_01]

This is what ultimately happens at all engineering companies that allow accountants to take control over engineers (see also: Boeing).

It's also why capitalism ultimately destroys everything it touches, because the end-game is that the balance between "profit" and "quality" ultimately stops being a balance, and instead is skewed only towards the former.

Yes... I also see this every day in my work.
And wanted to refer to Boeing also but didn't for some reason.
The mentality of take the profit now with some undermining quality, some lack of safety, do stuff with cheaper parts... and so on and on and on... and deal with consequences later... if they come... is growing.
Risk management is the one of their first lessons. But apparently some is taking it too far.

If they let engineers (not govern the world of course but) to actually do their job, things would be so much better everywhere.

 

[Wirko]

I'm wondering what will happen to all the returned CPUs ... If there's enough of them, it makes business sense to re-test, re-label and re-sell them. Intel, Green Computing At Scale, advancing towards the Net-Zero goal!

 

[Laurijan]

Me as a tech grandpa can remember they recalled all frist gen pentium chips due to it having a calculation error. This time it on a much bigger scale though, serverside and customer side and 2 CPU gens.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I'm wondering what will happen to all the returned CPUs ... If there's enough of them, it makes business sense to re-test, re-label and re-sell them. Intel, Green Computing At Scale, advancing towards the Net-Zero goal!

Refurb, for RMA chain... they will loop around the same CPUs for different people to shut them up.

 

[Vincero]

Seeing as L1Techs and some others have ways of identifying when cores aren't working properly, etc., surely Intel would be better off making a validation / check tool available to test the CPU for errors.
I'm not saying it should be used to exclude/validate RMA claims, but surely it would be useful for those who suspect an RMA is needed or those who haven't actually had any meaningful amount of issues but wish to check anyway and may be impacted without knowing...

 

[pressing on]

Seeing as L1Techs and some others have ways of identifying when cores aren't working properly, etc., surely Intel would be better off making a validation / check tool available to test the CPU for errors.
I'm not saying it should be used to exclude/validate RMA claims, but surely it would be useful for those who suspect an RMA is needed or those who haven't actually had any meaningful amount of issues but wish to check anyway and may be impacted without knowing...

For some time now there has been the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool that stresses the CPU, carries out a variety of diagnostic tests and gives a PASS/FAIL result.

 

[Laurijan]

Refurb, for RMA chain... they will loop around the same CPUs for different people to shut them up.

really not the time to escalate the public opinion about intel even more. its time to swallow the pill and pay for the mess

 

[londiste]

Seeing as L1Techs and some others have ways of identifying when cores aren't working properly, etc., surely Intel would be better off making a validation / check tool available to test the CPU for errors.

I am inclined to believe they may do something like that after BIOS updates are available from most vendors and have reached some critical point. There are a number of cases where limiting power and voltage properly (or higher voltages from new update) avoid the issue.

Scenario two they didn't know there was an issue and are completely incompetent with their own silicon.

Which issue? This "instability issues" is a cluster of related potential problems

 

[Vincero]

For some time now there has been the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool that stresses the CPU, carries out a variety of diagnostic tests and gives a PASS/FAIL result.

Maybe, assuming there isn't a problem with if the stress test runs on available working resources without error and it ignores any utilisation oddities, etc.
There doesn't appear to be a core utilisation test as part of it as a specific check. If it's something they weren't testing for previously, unless specifically noted in the testing, I'd assume it's still something they aren't testing for now.

 

[mclaren85]

Is this because we reach the end of Moore's law?