Intel Meteor Lake Reportedly Delayed Until End of 2023, Will Have Knock-On Effects for TSMC

[HenrySomeone]

Definitely moving to team red when Ryzen 7xxx becomes available...

Why would you move to an inferior cpu? Even Alder Lake will still have the upper hand in single thread (and that's according to AMD's own predictions of Zen4's uplift) and Raptor Lake will be better in...probably everything (maybe, just maaaybe 7950x will be about on par with 13900k in multi thread).
The only "argument" left is therefore the age-old AMD trope of better socket longevity. But the last time around it took nearly 5 years until you could get similar performance (5600x on x370) to what was available with Intel right away (8700k) and that's if you were lucky with motherboard support. I don't know about you, but I want my performance now, not in some uncertain, indeterminable time in the future...

 

[64K]

There are huge problems at Intel.

Manufacturing still recovering (with a question mark).
Sapphire Rapids delays because of a huge list of bugs.
ARC a disaster because of probably hardware and software problems.
Now a delay on a future product that was going to be build by TSMC.

Are coffee shops in Intel's buildings at least running properly?

It is becoming a comical circus.

 

[TheLostSwede]

What did AMD launch in 2021?

Intel has a habit of launching a new CPU line every year though, AMD maybe not so much.

 

[ThrashZone]

Intel has a habit of launching a new CPU line every year though, AMD maybe not so much.

Hi,
Yeah and two chips after amd finally drops theirs

 

[phanbuey]

They need to really iterate more effectively. Their project scopes are so massive, that it's a wonder anything gets accomplished there at all.

Just make a mid-level gfx card that works, and is successfull, then go from there. A regular cadence that consistently delivers is better than having to push back when one of the 121905871325 things you're trying to do (all at once) fails.

 

[usiname]

TSMC should learn their lesson, don't do business with intel, because their delay will reflect to you

 

[Regenweald]

Honestly, this just sounds like non-engineering execs informed engineering of their product timelines, (because everybody else in on 5 so we'll go to 3 ofc, great for shareholder impression), and reality just caught up with them. That was probably a knock down drag out internal meeting.

 

[r9]

2-3 years surely? 6-12 months would be a miracle.

View attachment 256964

We are moving rapidly through 7nm process maturity, with a simplified process and increased EUV. The compute tile for Meteor Lake, a breakthrough 2023 client processor, will tape in next quarter. https://t.co/lY5fO1aYAJ pic.twitter.com/WzkJL0gPRw

— Intel News (@intelnews) March 23, 2021

I think they can totally hit that Q2 2021 depending how far are with the time machine development.

 

[Testsubject01]

Why would you move to an inferior cpu? Even Alder Lake will still have the upper hand in single thread (and that's according to AMD's own predictions of Zen4's uplift) and Raptor Lake will be better in...probably everything (maybe, just maaaybe 7950x will be about on par with 13900k in multi thread).
The only "argument" left is therefore the age-old AMD trope of better socket longevity. But the last time around it took nearly 5 years until you could get similar performance (5600x on x370) to what was available with Intel right away (8700k) and that's if you were lucky with motherboard support. I don't know about you, but I want my performance now, not in some uncertain, indeterminable time in the future...

Got some of that Kool-Aid left there? Seems to be good stuff!
On a more serious note, we don't have any credible tests, benchmarks or reviews of either AMD Ryzen 7000-series or Intel 13-gen, nor will they be available quite so soon™. May we hit the brakes on the crystal balls?

B2T: Really curious what comes out of Intel down the line regarding all those delays/struggles. Supposedly they got the talent and money most certainly can't be an issue. What gives?

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Looks like Intel's underhanded plan of buying up 3nm capacity to keep it from AMD might not work... Looks like they'll actually have to create a good product and release it on time to compete... What a novel idea

 

[Assimilator]

Really curious what comes out of Intel down the line regarding all those delays/struggles. Supposedly the got the talent and money most certainly can't be an issue. What gives?

Money. Intel's management has forgotten it's a technology company, instead convincing themselves it's a company that exists solely to deliver profits to shareholders. The end result is that anything that might not deliver profits - like actual innovation - has long been stifled in favour of iterative improvements that deliver profits. And once your corporate culture has become so rotten that innovation is a dirty word, it becomes extremely difficult to fix that.

That's why Intel's fabrication division has repeatedly fucked up in delivering 10nm.
That's why Intel's management has made the nonsensical and disastrous decision to create and release a discrete GPU that is overpriced with massive quality issues.
That's why Intel's CPU division is incapable of delivering a new CPU design, instead squeezing blood out of the Skylake stone until there's no more blood left.
That's why Intel's memory division has spent half a decade developing Optane and 3D XPoint into a really innovative product, yet management has chosen to shut it down because they aren't willing to spend money to subsidise it to get the market traction to allow it to succeed.

Intel is a rudderless ship that typifies the kind of corporate greed and incompetence that allowed Japanese automakers to destroy their American counterparts in the 80s. Whether Pat Gelsinger can get that ship back on course before AMD completely eats Intel's lunch is the question. Cancelling the debacle that is Arc would be a good start, but whether Gelsinger is able to overcome the entrenched incompetents in Intel's GPU division is anyone's guess.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Why would you move to an inferior cpu? Even Alder Lake will still have the upper hand in single thread (and that's according to AMD's own predictions of Zen4's uplift) and Raptor Lake will be better in...probably everything (maybe, just maaaybe 7950x will be about on par with 13900k in multi thread).
The only "argument" left is therefore the age-old AMD trope of better socket longevity. But the last time around it took nearly 5 years until you could get similar performance (5600x on x370) to what was available with Intel right away (8700k) and that's if you were lucky with motherboard support. I don't know about you, but I want my performance now, not in some uncertain, indeterminable time in the future...

Recent leaks, although should not be taken as 100% fact, show Ryzen 7000 outperforming Ryzen 5000 by 50% in certain tasks, AMD was underpromising in their presentation, the fact that thry hit 5.5+Ghz in their own presentation demonstrated that when the text of their presentation just said 5Ghz+ frequency. It's so funny how you have all the faith in the world in Intel despite them not coming through with a good product in years other than Alder lake, meanwhile AMD has been executing literally every single time for years in a row and you have nothing but doubt and naysaying when it comes to them.... On a serious note, you/we all understand that AMD beating Intel at this moment in time equates to better circumstances for consumers, right? It's not the other way around.... We all saw what Intel did to consumers prior to ryzen beigg released, why would you want to return to 4% generational performance increases, general stagnation, and price gouging? Because that's what you're cheering for when you cheer for an Intel victory and an AMD defeat.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Intel's management has forgotten it's a technology company, instead convincing themselves it's a company that exists solely to deliver profits to shareholders.

[Most] Shareholders really do noit care about products one tiny bit, they care about profits. Its up to Intel management to provide that service.

 

[Assimilator]

Also, next time Intel tries to buy capacity from TSMC, TSMC is going to charge them 50% more, and up front.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Also, next time Intel tries to buy capacity from TSMC, TSMC is going to charge them 50% more, and up front.

That would prudent.

 

[Wirko]

Intel's underhanded plan of buying up 3nm capacity to keep it from AMD

Are they going to keep it from AMD, or have they just taken some inspiration from scalpers?

 

[Minus Infinity]

LOL, I said this a few weeks ago. Even Raptor Lake's so-called launch soon will be basically a paper launch and volume supply won't be until December. Sapphire Raqpids delayed until Q1 2023, Meteor Lake late 2023 means Arrow Lake now 2025 most likely. If Intel delays SR long enough they can get to put it up against Epyc Turin Zen 5 cpu's with 128 cores and 256 with the Bergamo 5c cores. Arc is basically DOA, so they can try and get Battlemage ready for RDNA 4 and post Lovelace. I doubt there has ever been a company so appallingly bad at delivering on timetables. Gelsinger has changed very little in that regard.

 

[HenrySomeone]

Recent leaks, although should not be taken as 100% fact, show Ryzen 7000 outperforming Ryzen 5000 by 50% in certain tasks, AMD was underpromising in their presentation, the fact that thry hit 5.5+Ghz in their own presentation demonstrated that when the text of their presentation just said 5Ghz+ frequency. It's so funny how you have all the faith in the world in Intel despite them not coming through with a good product in years other than Alder lake, meanwhile AMD has been executing literally every single time for years in a row and you have nothing but doubt and naysaying when it comes to them.... On a serious note, you/we all understand that AMD beating Intel at this moment in time equates to better circumstances for consumers, right? It's not the other way around.... We all saw what Intel did to consumers prior to ryzen beigg released, why would you want to return to 4% generational performance increases, general stagnation, and price gouging? Because that's what you're cheering for when you cheer for an Intel victory and an AMD defeat.

OMG, how can some of you be so gullible?!? Yeah sure, they were underselling themselves by a factor of 3 and they'll hit 6 GHz and they will sell for peanuts and your life will improve in all respects upon purchase and more and more! On a serious note now, do some thinking - when was the last time a new series improved around 50% compared to its immediate predecessor? Zen1 over Bullshitdozer in some respects perhaps, but that's just because the latter was ancient by that point and had been absolute crap even on release. And if the latest price rumors are true (7600x going for $200), then you can be sure, they won't be all that great. Previously they were selling their 6 core for $300 (actual price was more like 350 or even more for months, making it more expensive than 10850k, lmao! ) and it didn't even win flat out against competition, especially not in gaming. $200 means it won't even match 12600k, much less 13th gen.

 

[Jimmy_]

A year full of disappointments for intel .... Hope they ll recover soon at a different speed and ll get back on track! As, MTL seems a pretty awesome product from intel side in terms of power, performance and promising intel Graphics with DX12U support to compete ryzen7000 APU n G-series! Sad we have to wait again!

 

[Bomby569]

This just looks like bad management at this point, Gelsinger won't last long.

 

[mahirzukic2]

OMG, how can some of you be so gullible?!? Yeah sure, they were underselling themselves by a factor of 3 and they'll hit 6 GHz and they will sell for peanuts and your life will improve in all respects upon purchase and more and more! On a serious note now, do some thinking - when was the last time a new series improved around 50% compared to its immediate predecessor? Zen1 over Bullshitdozer in some respects perhaps, but that's just because the latter was ancient by that point and had been absolute crap even on release. And if the latest price rumors are true (7600x going for $200), then you can be sure, they won't be all that great. Previously they were selling their 6 core for $300 (actual price was more like 350 or even more for months, making it more expensive than 10850k, lmao! ) and it didn't even win flat out against competition, especially not in gaming. $200 means it won't even match 12600k, much less 13th gen.

It was due to crazy market during the pandemic and chip shortage everywhere. AMD sees what's on the horizon and the impending recession, they gotta lower the prices back to normal. By the looks of it, they just might do that.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Hi,
Yeah guess redesigning to add that awesome 3d cache amd came up with is kicking intel's ass

AMD didn't come up with that. TSMC came up with that.

 

[ModEl4]

It seems to me a 6 month delay if the report is true.
End of May 2021 compute tile tape-in (not whole design tape-out...) means around +2 years for launch, so if it launches at November like Alder Lake it would mean 6 months delay.
It could be not a Meteor Lake problem but an Arrow Lake problem (we still haven't heard about a tape-in, 14 months after the Meteor Lake tape-in) it's possible that for Arrow Lake Intel's transition from Intel3 to Intel20 to caused the 6 month delay.
But in order to delay Meteor Lake also it means that Intel has confidence in Raptor Lake design, otherwise it would just delay Arrow.
I can't wait for Raptor Lake vs Raphael comparisons, I have a feeling that AMD will lose in every segment (13600K vs 7600X, 13700K vs 7700X etc) in both single thread (including gaming) and multi-thread apps...

 

[HenrySomeone]

But in order to delay Meteor Lake also it means that Intel has confidence in Raptor Lake design, otherwise it would just delay Arrow.
I can't wait for Raptor Lake vs Raphael comparisons, I have a feeling that AMD will lose in every segment (13600K vs 7600X, 13700K vs 7700X etc) in both single thread (including gaming) and multi-thread apps...

This is precisely what I've been saying for months now - Zen4 won't be the saving grace that would put AMD on top and there will be a lot of really butt-hurt fanboys.

 

[ModEl4]

This is precisely what I've been saying for months now - Zen4 won't be the saving grace that would put AMD on top and there will be a lot of really butt-hurt fanboys.

But since (according to rumors) Zen4 V-cache models are coming this year, it means that in gaming AMD will have the upper hand (I wonder if AMD's fanboys will still say the same stuff like in the past-that AMD Zen1000/2000/3000 was close enough in gaming in higher resolutions but it was much better in multithreading vs Intel so it was preferable, I wonder if they'll say the same now for Raptor vs Zen4 V-cache...)