• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel "Raptor Lake" is a 24-core (8 Big + 16 Little) Processor

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
41,227 (8.25/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 2700X
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism
Memory 2x 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Microsoft Sidewinder X4
Software Windows 10 Pro
Intel's strategy toward increasing CPU core counts could be to dial up the counts of smaller low-power CPU cores, according to a "Moore's Law is Dead" leak about the next-generation "Raptor Lake" mainstream processor. The chip is said to have 8 larger high-performance cores, and a whopping 16 low-power cores. The eight bigger performance cores will be "Raptor Cove," the successor to "Golden Cove," featuring higher IPC and more instruction sets, although the report only references this as an enhancement to "Golden Cove." The sixteen smaller low-power cores, however, are expected to remain "Gracemont," carried over from "Alder Lake-S." The "Raptor Lake-S" processor is slated for a Holiday 2022 release, and being touted as a competitor to AMD's "Zen 4" based desktop processor.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
2,748 (1.32/day)
Location
Argentina
System Name Ciel / Yukino
Processor AMD Ryzen R5 3400G / Intel Core i3 5005U
Motherboard Asus Prime B450M-A / HP 240 G5
Cooling AM3 Wraith / Stock
Memory 2x 8GB Colorful 2666@3400MHz / 2x 4GB Hynix + Kingston DDR3L 1600MHz
Video Card(s) Asus Tuf 1650 SUPER OC + AMD Radeon RX Vega 11 / Intel HD 5500
Storage SSD ADATA FALCON 512GB PCIe3.0 + HDD WD 4TB / SSD Kingston A400 120GB SATA
Display(s) Samsung S22F350/ Integrated 1366x768
Case Cougar MX410 Mesh-G / Stock
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC892 / Realtek ALC282
Power Supply Sentey XPP 525W / Power Brick
Mouse Logitech G203 / Elan Touchpad
Keyboard VSG Alnilam / Stock
Software Windows 10 x64 / Manjaro x64
What I don't get from this approach is, what if I want 12 big cores instead of useless AVX-less small cores? This is on a desktop PC, not on a laptop.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
6,935 (2.85/day)
Location
USA
Processor i7-7820HK
Memory 2x8gb (16gb)
Video Card(s) gtx 1070
Storage 2TB SSD
Display(s) 17.3" 96hz 1080p IPS
What I don't get from this approach is, what if I want 12 big cores instead of useless AVX-less small cores? This is on a desktop PC, not on a laptop.

can you explain AVX to me in quick summary, I have never understood it... I am guessing it only applies to work stations not actual gamers?
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
50,003 (8.20/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles
Processor Ryzen R7 5800X
Motherboard Asus x570 Gaming-F
Cooling EK 240mm RGB AIO | Custom 280mm EK loop
Memory 64GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @ 3800 C16
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB (0.8v 1.8GHz) - EK Quantum ARGB block w/ active backplate
Storage 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 500GB 850 Evo
Display(s) Gigabyte G32QC + Phillips 328m6fjrmb (32" 1440p 165Hz/144Hz curved )
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Razer Leviathan + Corsair Void pro RGB, Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE
VR HMD Oculus Rift S
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Lots of RGB, so you know it's fast.
can you explain AVX to me in quick summary, I have never understood it... I am guessing it only applies to work stations not actual gamers?

Think of it as hardware dedicated to a certain task, very much the same as hardware accelerated playback for say H264 on a GPU

To programs (games) that dont use it, its useless hardware.
To programs that do use it (workstation stuff) it's a massive speed boost.

Some games are starting to use AVX, but its not common yet (and so many variants of AVX, they may use older standards than modern CPU support anyway)
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
2,748 (1.32/day)
Location
Argentina
System Name Ciel / Yukino
Processor AMD Ryzen R5 3400G / Intel Core i3 5005U
Motherboard Asus Prime B450M-A / HP 240 G5
Cooling AM3 Wraith / Stock
Memory 2x 8GB Colorful 2666@3400MHz / 2x 4GB Hynix + Kingston DDR3L 1600MHz
Video Card(s) Asus Tuf 1650 SUPER OC + AMD Radeon RX Vega 11 / Intel HD 5500
Storage SSD ADATA FALCON 512GB PCIe3.0 + HDD WD 4TB / SSD Kingston A400 120GB SATA
Display(s) Samsung S22F350/ Integrated 1366x768
Case Cougar MX410 Mesh-G / Stock
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC892 / Realtek ALC282
Power Supply Sentey XPP 525W / Power Brick
Mouse Logitech G203 / Elan Touchpad
Keyboard VSG Alnilam / Stock
Software Windows 10 x64 / Manjaro x64
It doesn't need to be focused only on games. Browsers, emulators, compression programs, anything can take advantage of CPU instructions in one way or another.
It's better to have them and not need them than to not have them and crash an app, or make it perform like trash.
yuzu for example will run some games at 3FPS if FMA is missing, precision needs to be lowered to make old CPUs perform well.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
1,975 (0.84/day)
System Name Suffering from random access memory loss.
Processor Intel Core i7 980X @ 4.42 GHz (when becnching op to 4.77 GHz)
Motherboard ASUS P6X58D Premium
Cooling Noctua NH-D14 CPU cooler with 3 x noctua nf-f12 industrialppc-3000 pwm 120 MM fans
Memory 12 GB DDR3 CORSAIR 1600 MHz TIMMINGS 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2 GAMING
Storage 2 x Samsung 950 PRO 256 GB M.2 NVME SSD, Crucial MX300 2 TB SSD, WD RED 4 TB + WD AV-GP 2 TB HDD.
Display(s) 24" SAMSUNG
Case ANTEC TWELVE HUNDRED
Audio Device(s) ONBOARD realtek sound card.
Power Supply THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER 1500 WATT
Mouse Logitech G903 Lightspeed Wireless Gaming Mouse
Keyboard LOGITECH G19s
Software WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BITS
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13514527 https://www.3dmark.com/spy/2333033
The hybrid core part, I think is a good idea for devices using battery or have limited cooling capability. It also makes sense for a office or desktop pc in a store or industrial environment, where a pc just sits on ilde most of the time.

But for a full blown gamer and/or workstation desktop. I would rather like to have fewer but powerful cores. So like 16 cores with smt/ht than like 24 cores and perhaps only 8 cores of them has sms/ht. Hence why I chose to go with a Ryzen 9 5950X and not wait for Intel's alder lake. 5950X seems beffer fitted for my needs.

So i have mixed feelings about this hybrid core thing. Some places it makes sense and in other areas it doesn't make so much sense.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
can you explain AVX to me in quick summary, I have never understood it... I am guessing it only applies to work stations not actual gamers?

In a nutshell it's a CPU Instruction that makes the CPU process more data at once/per CPU cycle.
 

Uroshi

New Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
10 (0.02/day)
I don't understand all the people considering the small cores to be a waste on desktop computers.

Just think of it like having 8 cores at 4.5GHz and 16 cores at 3.9GHz where the 16 cores use as much power as the 8 faster ones. The missing instructions are rarely used ones which again stress the power generated by the CPU.

Even desktops are power bound, not maybe so strictly as notebooks but if you can generate a limited amount of heat than there are many situations where 16 low power cores can do more than 8 megacoreswithsquareballs (TM).

In the end it seems to be like: you got a 150W power ceiling (well, it is Intel ... 250W ... 300W...), you decide how to reach this power limit ... today it is 2 cores superfast or all cores somewhat fast in a dynamic manner ... tomorrow it will be decided when buying the CPU: 8 big and 8 small (average Joe) or 24 small (I do serious stuff) or 12 big (I am a gamer).

I am not so sure the big-little is such a winning idea though. Time will tell.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
85 (0.31/day)
Location
Greece
What I don't get from this approach is, what if I want 12 big cores instead of useless AVX-less small cores? This is on a desktop PC, not on a laptop.
I think we do have other options for small workstations, although 16 cores seem like a better choice (except for price).
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
410 (0.12/day)
Location
Lithuania
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.8 GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z87 Extreme 4
Cooling Lepa NeoIllusion RGB CPU cooler
Memory 2*4GB Patriot G2 Series RAM
Video Card(s) MSI Radeon R9 380 4GB
Storage Transcend SSD 740 256GB + WD Caviar Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung SA 300 24" Full HD
Case NZXT Phantom 530 + Bitfenix Recon fan controller
Audio Device(s) Creative SB0770 X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
Power Supply PC Power and Cooling Silencer MkIII 750W 80+ Gold
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Steelseries Apex RAW
Benchmark Scores IT WORKS
Historically the best CPUs have the highest performance per core and the highest performance per clock ratio.

I don't need regular CPU + 1000 little calculator cores
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
8,857 (2.15/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R7 3800X@4.350/525/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 @bios 2703/?
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu Monoblock Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 32Gb in four sticks./16Gb
Video Card(s) Sapphire refference Rx vega 64 EK waterblocked/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power qlc nvmex3 in raid 0/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
I wasn't sure if I wanted small cores in a desktop pc, and I'm still not sure, but Damn 16 little cores , baffling, why , I have used something close to gracemont core's, I didn't enjoy it, weird.
Time will tell but Intel are baffling ATM.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
962 (0.50/day)
The reality is that big LITTLE is it's best option right now available to deal with heat in terms of managing it better by reducing power draw. That happens to be Intel's biggest setback right now in competing against AMD who's on TSMC's more advanced node and has a clever upper hand in the regard. It's still actually really important when you take into consideration vertical stacking of chips in which dealing with heat with heat transfer will become a more serious concern and something Intel is also working towards.

This could be a big first step towards 3D stacked CPU's from Intel. In fact I feel Intel could stand to have a small, medium, big core type of arrangement with 3 or more core size types possibly even 4 in the not so distant future. In that scenario the best way to 3D stack them is in a pyramid structure you might invert it though and do like AMD has with ZEN 3+ with the structural silicone. It really depends honestly the biggest die might be a smallest cores, but the number of those cores is much higher while the smaller core might be a single core chip at the very top with very highest performance in mind.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
8,857 (2.15/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R7 3800X@4.350/525/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 @bios 2703/?
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu Monoblock Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 32Gb in four sticks./16Gb
Video Card(s) Sapphire refference Rx vega 64 EK waterblocked/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power qlc nvmex3 in raid 0/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
The reality is that big LITTLE is it's best option right now available to deal with heat in terms of managing it better by reducing power draw. That happens to be Intel's biggest setback right now in competing against AMD who's on TSMC's more advanced node and has a clever upper hand in the regard. It's still actually really important when you take into consideration vertical stacking of chips in which dealing with heat with heat transfer will become a more serious concern and something Intel is also working towards.

This could be a big first step towards 3D stacked CPU's from Intel. In fact I feel Intel could stand to have a small, medium, big core type of arrangement with 3 or more core size types possibly even 4 in the not so distant future. In that scenario the best way to 3D stack them is in a pyramid structure you might invert it though and do like AMD has with ZEN 3+ with the structural silicone. It really depends honestly the biggest die might be a smallest cores, but the number of those cores is much higher while the smaller core might be a single core chip at the very top with very highest performance in mind.
First step?!, They're way past first steps on 3D ,what do you think emib is, plus Through silicon vias are already in their repertoire.
They also shipped a stacked big core on some little cores to consumers, admittedly god knows who and where they're a bit unicorny.
 
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
46 (0.02/day)
can you explain AVX to me in quick summary, I have never understood it... I am guessing it only applies to work stations not actual gamers?
Games use AVX all the time. They are specialist instructions that do operations on 8-16 data points at once. They are used for compression, video encoding, deep learning, physics calculations etc. Games use them for compression(textures and models are compressed, and games stream them during gameplay otherwise 150gb games will require 150gb ram) and physics all the time.
Basically:
Normal add: x + y = z
AVX add:
x0 + y0 = z0
x1 + y1 = z1
x2 + y2 = z2
x3 + y3 = z3
x4 + y4 = z4
x5 + y5 = z5
x6 + y6 = z6
x7 + y7 = z7
x8 + y8 = z8
x9 + y9 = z9
x10 + y10 = z10
x11 + y11 = z11
x12 + y12 = z12
x13 + y13 = z13
x14 + y14 = z14
x15 + y15 = z15
AVX Fused multiply add:
x0 * y0 + z0 = w0
.
.
.
x15*y15 + z15 = w15


Current CPUs can execute ~3 AVX or 3 normal add instructions per cycle. So the 16X data points = 16X faster. Often the normal adds are just AVX adds, with only x0 + y0 = z0.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
962 (0.50/day)
First step?!, They're way past first steps on 3D ,what do you think emib is, plus Through silicon vias are already in their repertoire.
They also shipped a stacked big core on some little cores to consumers, admittedly god knows who and where they're a bit unicorny.
I think we can both agree though 3D stacking is still very much in it's early infancy far from being well refinement and perfected upon not that tech is ever really perfect.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
594 (0.87/day)
System Name Neon Master
Processor AMD Ryzen 5900x
Motherboard x570 Aorus Master F33h
Cooling H115i RGB Platinum 280mm/Case Fans NF-A14 x4
Memory G.Skill Neo 32GB @3800 MT/s C16
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 Tuf OC
Storage 980 PRO 2TB / MP600 2TB
Display(s) LG 27GL850-b
Case Phanteks Evolv X
Audio Device(s) DT 770 Pro 250ohm + Scarlett Solo Gen3
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 1000w
Mouse Scimitar Pro
Keyboard K95 Platinum
So they're trying to be like ARM, and x86 will die out because arm does low power better..
I guess expediting the transition this way is better.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
241 (1.49/day)
Location
Exexfirstladyland
Processor i5-6600K
Motherboard Asus Z170A
Cooling some cheap Cooler Master
Memory 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) IGP
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Display(s) 2x Oldell 24" 1920x1200
Case Bitfenix Nova white windowless
Audio Device(s) E-mu 1212m PCI
Power Supply Seasonic G-360
Mouse Logitech Marble trackball, never had a mouse
Keyboard Key Tronic KT2000, no Win key because 1994
Software Oldwin
Think about performance per watt and watts per square centimeter too. Not just in notebooks but in desktops as well.

Two or three small cores will get more work done per watt of power than one large core, and cm² of small cores will get more work done than a cm² of large cores - it's reasonable to expect that, right?

I mean, that's when AVX512 isn't used and with a workload that's highly multithreaded. If it isn't highly multithreaded then you don't need more than 8 SMT cores.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
8,857 (2.15/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R7 3800X@4.350/525/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 @bios 2703/?
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu Monoblock Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 32Gb in four sticks./16Gb
Video Card(s) Sapphire refference Rx vega 64 EK waterblocked/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power qlc nvmex3 in raid 0/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Think about performance per watt and watts per square centimeter too. Not just in notebooks but in desktops as well.

Two or three small cores will get more work done per watt of power than one large core, and cm² of small cores will get more work done than a cm² of large cores - it's reasonable to expect that, right?

I mean, that's when AVX512 isn't used and with a workload that's highly multithreaded. If it isn't highly multithreaded then you don't need more than 8 SMT cores.
Wrong, three small cores won't get more work done "typically" then one big core/per watt.
That would depend on the task , environment and other running applications but I can't see where your getting your ideology at all.
Highly multi threaded and low throughout per core is it's bow string.
They're saving those big cores for directed application battering ie games.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
3,403 (0.76/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television)
Case antec 600
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
85 (0.31/day)
Location
Greece
Historically the best CPUs have the highest performance per core and the highest performance per clock ratio.

I don't need regular CPU + 1000 little calculator cores
Yeah, wrote this before, I'm considering a 8-0-1 or 6-0-1 configuration. Of course that's only me, I don't need a Xeon or Threadripper or even 5950x.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
8,857 (2.15/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R7 3800X@4.350/525/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 @bios 2703/?
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu Monoblock Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 32Gb in four sticks./16Gb
Video Card(s) Sapphire refference Rx vega 64 EK waterblocked/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power qlc nvmex3 in raid 0/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Yeah, wrote this before, I'm considering a 8-0-1 or 6-0-1 configuration. Of course that's only me, I don't need a Xeon or Threadripper or even 5950x.
Well we are talking about the 8/16 part in the Op not the single big core variants soooo, I mean yeh you do you but we're talking about what Might do us ,who needs mooooooooar cores.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,793 (0.63/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Ryzen 7 2700X / Ryzen 7 2600X / AM3 Athlon 645 unlocked to 6 core
Motherboard MSI X470 Gaming Plus Max / ASRock A320M-HDV R4.0 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3
Cooling Νoctua U12S / AMD Wraith / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB G.Skill RIPJAWS 3600 / 16GB G.Skill Aegis 3200 / 16GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX)/ GT 710 / GT 620
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB + SATA SSDs + SATA HDDs / Samsung 256GB NVMe + 2.5'' HDDs / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / 19'' monitor + projector
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Seasonic 400W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
Alder Lake was showing how Intel will move forward. With marketing.
Intel will be touting
- the high frequency of the big cores
- the high performance in games thanks to those big cores
- the low power consumption thanks to the little cores
- the number of cores

And people will be buying the wagon with the 8 horses and the 16 dogs, thinking they are getting 24 horses, while AMD will be trying to sell a cart with "only" 16 horses.
 
Top