• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Rocket Lake-S Platform Detailed, Features PCIe 4.0 and Xe Graphics

Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
151 (0.06/day)
You are on the brink getting into fanboyish attitude. Calm down. This old arch is a can of worms, it is just a matter of time for another Zero Day class exploit to emerge. The funny move omitting SGX, not fixing it instead to save from the dreaded LVI vulnerability is reason to think about it in general.
I agree with you on Skylake being an old uArch. Ice Lake and Tigerlake are based on it and indeed they are starting to be like an open book for researchers, hence the numerous vulnerabitilies. Still, most of the consumers don't give a damn about this vulnerability craze, including myself. If one's CPU performs better I will buy it. So if Rocket Lake brings enough performance to the table, it will sell no problem.
Regarding the LVI vulnerability, they probably found about it too late in the development process so they just disabled SGX entirely, nothing surprising.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
5,067 (0.90/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MXVI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory 32GB Viper Steel 3600 DDR4 @ 3800MHz 16-19-16-19-36
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080 Gaming OC 8G
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 2TB Viper VPN100, 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/ztiub6

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
That is not the problem. Ice Lake does pretty well. The changes we know about in Tiger Lake will put its single-core performance above Zen2, possibly competitive with Zen3.
Ice Lake is terrible, to be honest. Only 4 cores at 3.6 GHz on the N10+ node.

1584904603471.png


18% IPC improvement on average compared to the 2015 Skylake.

1584904843596.png


Which would put it ~6-7% above Zen 2 but Zen 3 is expected to bring 15-20% IPC improvement when it comes, finally.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
241 (0.70/day)
Location
USA - It's complicated
System Name Daily Driver(gaming, browsing, light web dev.)
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aurus Pro Wifi
Cooling Corsair H60 w/Nidec GentleTyphoon
Memory 16GB(2x8) G.Skill FlareX DDR4-3200C14
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64
Storage Samsung 970 EVO+ 1TB (Boot/OS) | Samsung 860 EVO 1TB (Games) | 2 x WD Spinners 1TB/500GB(BU)
Display(s) 2 X AOC Q3279VWFD8 - 10bit IPS 1440p @ 75hz FreeSync over DP
Case Corsair Graphite 600T w/mesh side
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z625 2.1 | cheapo gaming headset when mic is needed
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Corsair K70 Lux - Blue on Black
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores Not really a benchmark guy...
Didn't Intel downplay PCIe 4.0 when AMD announced it by saying they would be launching PCIe 5.0 with the next generation???
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
1,947 (0.92/day)
VideoCardz have made up stuff in the past. While some of this may not or may be accurate, I wouldn't care too much until we have confirmation from reliable third-parties, or official leaks of course.

I doubt it will be backported to 14nm. Backporting CPU core and GPU core is way too much, especially that Willow Cove need large caches (for example for AVX 512). There may be two platforms at the same time: cheaper 400 series for big volume, and pricier 500 series for enthusiasts.
The caches of Skylake-X/-SP is pretty close in size and is not a problem on 14nm.

Except Intel's problem is not architecture (Sunny Cove looks darn good on paper), it's fab capacity ;)
If what Intel is telling us is true, while 10nm has been a train wreck, 7nm which was worked on in parallel was not. And that would mean 7nm will hit sooner rather than later, making ramping up 10nm at this point rather unattractive. Big if, grain of salt and everything...
Intel is ramping up 10nm as much as possible, and 10nm+ arriving this year (for Tiger Lake and Ice Lake-SP/X) and 10nm++ next year. Demand is much higher than expected in both laptop and server segments, so we shouldn't expect 10nm to reach the full lineup. But 7nm is still far away, low volume 2021 and medium volumes 2022 is a best case scenario.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
What's the point in releasing Comet Lake 10-core in April 2020 and Rocket Lake 8-core in December or November 2020 ? :confused:
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,158 (1.88/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
18% IPC improvement on average compared to the 2015 Skylake.
Which would put it ~6-7% above Zen 2 but Zen 3 is expected to bring 15-20% IPC improvement when it comes, finally.
That was exactly my point. You said Intel needs 5GHz to stay competitive with AMD. It does not. Ice Lake - as you said - has better single-core performance than Zen2. Tiger Lake will bring some smaller improvements. That should put it on par with what we expect Zen3 to be.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
11,365 (5.63/day)
Location
Mars
Processor i7 8700k 4.7Ghz @ 1.26v
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Eizo Foris FG2421
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Power Supply EVGA G2 750w
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Sharkoon MK80 (Brown)
Software W10 x64
Man... you're writing posts from mid 2019 at best. 10nm is profitable already and used for mainstream chips.
They're quite elusive for being mainstream buddy. Its pretty close to a paper launch with some samples out the door.

And profitable 10nm sure as hell is not. After all these years of development? lol

Intel is ramping up 10nm as much as possible
Are there actual numbers of this? And not those of investments in fabs, but of 10nm products sold.
 

Logoffon

New Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
20 (0.16/day)
I might sound dumb here, but what is the exact reason for Intel failing to release 10nm a year after SKL, and then continuously failing to make that node in high yields?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
11,365 (5.63/day)
Location
Mars
Processor i7 8700k 4.7Ghz @ 1.26v
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Eizo Foris FG2421
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Power Supply EVGA G2 750w
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Sharkoon MK80 (Brown)
Software W10 x64
I might sound dumb here, but what is the exact reason for Intel failing to release 10nm a year after SKL, and then continuously failing to make that node in high yields?
That is the million dollar question :D

But 'they were lazy' is not sufficient to me. I do think this is really a difficult node. 7nm didn't come through easily either, new effects come into play as we go this small. Effectively the fabs need new machinery for it (EUV). That also has its early problems.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
That was exactly my point. You said Intel needs 5GHz to stay competitive with AMD. It does not. Ice Lake - as you said - has better single-core performance than Zen2. Tiger Lake will bring some smaller improvements. That should put it on par with what we expect Zen3 to be.
How when Icelake simply doesn't clock anywhere near to the needed levels? You have 3.5 GHz - 4.0 GHz Icelake chips which are supposed to perform as well as the 4.7 GHz Ryzen 9 3900X !

I might sound dumb here, but what is the exact reason for Intel failing to release 10nm a year after SKL, and then continuously failing to make that node in high yields?
The exact reason is that it was a premature jump of 2.3x the transistor density over N14 and there is currently no available equipment that can do it.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,791 (0.83/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
System Name More hardware than I use :|
Processor 4.7 8350 - 4.2 4560K - 4.4 4690K
Motherboard Sabertooth R2.0 - Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H-CF - AsRock Z97M KIller
Cooling Mugen 2 rev B push/pull - Hyper 212+ push/pull - Hyper 212+
Memory 16GB Gskill - 8GB Gskill - 16GB Ballistix 1.35v
Video Card(s) Xfire OCed 7950s - Powercolor 290x - Oced Zotac 980Ti AMP! (also have two 7870s)
Storage Crucial 250GB SSD, Kingston 3K 120GB, Sammy 1TB, various WDs, 13TB (actual capactity) NAS with WDs
Display(s) X-star 27" 1440 - Auria 27" 1440 - BenQ 24" 1080 - Acer 23" 1080
Case Lian Li open bench - Fractal Design ARC - Thermaltake Cube (still have HAF 932 and more ARCs)
Audio Device(s) Titanium HD - Onkyo HT-RC360 Receiver - BIC America custom 5.1 set up (and extra Klipsch sub)
Power Supply Corsair 850W V2 - EVGA 1000 G2 - Seasonic 500 and 600W units (dead 750W needs RMA lol)
Mouse Logitech G5 - Sentey Revolution Pro - Sentey Lumenata Pro - multiple wireless logitechs
Keyboard Logitech G11s - Thermaltake Challenger
Software I wish I could kill myself instead of using windows (OSX can suck it too).
Intel putting out tigerlake quad core leaks...yeah, that's all you need to know about 2020 (poor attempt at fixing the narrative).
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
Intel putting out tigerlake quad core leaks...yeah, that's all you need to know about 2020 (poor attempt at fixing the narrative).
If it depends on Intel, they will increase the single-threaded IPC by 100% and continue to offer the holy quad-cores for another 10 years, at least.
Didn't they officially say that we don't need anything more than a quad-core?!

But when I hear about a quad-core of any type, I become like this:

1584924999228.png
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,158 (1.88/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
I might sound dumb here, but what is the exact reason for Intel failing to release 10nm a year after SKL, and then continuously failing to make that node in high yields?
The exact reason is that it was a premature jump of 2.3x the transistor density over N14 and there is currently no available equipment that can do it.
What is generally being suspected are:
1. Some aspects or measures of Intel's 10nm are the same or even beyond what TSMC's 7nm has (MMP comes to mind out of the major ones). Intel was trying to get there without EUV (this is the equipment availability question) and that backfired.
2. Replacing copper with cobalt is suspected to be a big suspect due to the nature of early errors. Intel has been pretty quiet about this.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,375 (2.47/day)
They're quite elusive for being mainstream buddy. Its pretty close to a paper launch with some samples out the door.
What?
Seriously, you're either not tracking the PC market at all or just ignoring mobile segment on purpose.

Ice Lake is available in normal, common notebooks. It's normally available in stores. And it's been there for a few months already.
You're repreating arguments from half a year ago or older. I don't understand why you're unwilling to just CHECK if they're still valid.
You really like Intel to fail and you're going to hold on to this narrative?
And profitable 10nm sure as hell is not. After all these years of development? lol
Why would it not be? Why would Intel offer Ice Lake for mainstream products if it wasn't making money?
And at the end of the day Intel's profit margin is still way higher than AMD (even higher than TSMC's). And it already includes those years of 10nm development with no sales.
You want to deny that as well?
 
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
41 (0.06/day)
Not all 10th generation laptop processors are 10nm Ice Lake. In fact, most of them are not:

On Geizhals.eu there are 780 10-gen laptops, 527 Comet Lake-U and only 253 Ice Lake-U.

Ice Lake-U also caps at 4 core, 8 threads, and quite low frequency.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
2,039 (1.92/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Biostar X370GTN
Cooling Custom CPU+GPU water loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3200 C16
Video Card(s) AMD R9 Fury X
Storage 500GB 960 Evo (OS ++), 500GB 850 Evo (Games)
Display(s) Dell U2711
Case NZXT H200i
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Lenovo Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint
Software Windows 10 Pro
What?
Seriously, you're either not tracking the PC market at all or just ignoring mobile segment on purpose.

Ice Lake is available in normal, common notebooks. It's normally available in stores. And it's been there for a few months already.
You're repreating arguments from half a year ago or older. I don't understand why you're unwilling to just CHECK if they're still valid.
You really like Intel to fail and you're going to hold on to this narrative?

Why would it not be? Why would Intel offer Ice Lake for mainstream products if it wasn't making money?
And at the end of the day Intel's profit margin is still way higher than AMD (even higher than TSMC's). And it already includes those years of 10nm development with no sales.
You want to deny that as well?
Sorry, but Ice Lake is available only in a rather limited number of SKUs, with Comet Lake making up the majority of current Intel-based ULV laptops. Ice Lake is absolutely out there, but if 10nm had reached high yields and ramped up properly, wouldn't they be reserving the desperately needed 14nm capacity for their server and workstation chips (where 10nm isn't used yet)? The only plausible reason for there still being a prevalent and widely available 14nm mobile lineup from Intel is that they are still struggling with that node.

As for profitability: recouping costs does not equal making money. Intel have spent several billion USD on developing 10nm, and are only now shipping in anything resembling volume. They will likely never make back their R&D costs on this process node, which means it will never be profitable.

Also: Intel's current, shipping, somewhat available 10nm node is ... not very performant. Ice Lake has a ~18% architectural IPC gain from SKL and its derivatives, yet Comet Lake (14nm ++++ SKL derivative) at 15W outperforms Ice Lake (10nm) even according to Intel itself. In other words the power and clock scaling disadvantages of the 10nm node are still significant enough that Intel can't make it faster than their previous offerings despite a significant IPC advantage. Have you seen how ridiculously low base clocks on Ice Lake chips are? Quad core ICL chips are barely faster at base clock than hexa core CML chips (1.3 v. 1.1 GHz). ICL is also the first ever generation where Intel has announced a top-end U-series SKU that is only available at 28W and nothing lower - the i7-1068G7, which btw has yet to ship in any device - and even at 28W it only manages a 2.3GHz base clock.

Ice Lake is looking more and more like a beta release, with Tiger Lake planned to be the proper, widely available and actually performant part. Though we'll see if they manage to refine the node enough for that to launch in a timely manner.

Maybe don't take those silly Cinebench figures as a measure for IPC. Just a thought.
Do you trust SPEC2017? That's about as industry-standard as you get, and AnandTech's testing using it shows Zen 2 to be ~7% faster than Coffee Lake (~5% SPECINT, ~7.8% SPECFP, ~7.1% overall) (or, if you flip that around, CFL is ~6.7% overall/7.2% SPECFP/4.8% SPECINT slower than Zen 2).
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
4,816 (4.10/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) OEM Dell GTX 1080
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 4K Samsung TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
I might sound dumb here, but what is the exact reason for Intel failing to release 10nm a year after SKL, and then continuously failing to make that node in high yields?
Sunk cost fallacy.

10nm should have been canned a long time ago, it's obvious that's never going to be a volume node, there isn't enough time left for that to happen and still stay competitive. The hallmark of a good node stands in server chips not mobile stuff, that's where yields/volume/performance are paramount. Since there are no 10nm Xeons right now, that should give you an idea of how useful this node is.

14nm could have carried them to next node, ironically that's what is happening right now. They tried to boost 14nm capacity and work on 10nm at the same time, that was a mistake as well.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,375 (2.47/day)
Not all 10th generation laptop processors are 10nm Ice Lake.
Of course. I've never said all are.
On Geizhals.eu there are 780 10-gen laptops, 527 Comet Lake-U and only 253 Ice Lake-U.
That's a very unorthodox way of measuring availability.
From what I've seen, this site sometimes shows different versions as separate items. For example, the 72 notebooks with Ice Lake-Y (which you forgot about) are all variations of Macbook Air.

That's why I'm suggesting a more qualitative approach, i.e. looking at what kind of notebooks get Ice Lake. Few months ago, at the moment @Vayra86 stopped updating, these were just a few low-volume products (expensive 2in1s).
Today 10nm is in many mainstream / bestselling lines.
Also, just the fact that Apple puts it into Macbook Air and Dell into XPS is a sign there are no quality / supply issues. They wouldn't take that risk.
Ice Lake-U also caps at 4 core, 8 threads, and quite low frequency.
Which is an optimal configuration for 15W SoCs - the most popular type of consumer CPU we have today.
Smaller 10nm SoCs will arrive this year. Larger - this or next year.
Big desktop CPUs will come last... or never.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
2,039 (1.92/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
Motherboard Biostar X370GTN
Cooling Custom CPU+GPU water loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4-3200 C16
Video Card(s) AMD R9 Fury X
Storage 500GB 960 Evo (OS ++), 500GB 850 Evo (Games)
Display(s) Dell U2711
Case NZXT H200i
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Lenovo Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint
Software Windows 10 Pro
Of course. I've never said all are.

That's a very unorthodox way of measuring availability.
From what I've seen, this site sometimes shows different versions as separate items. For example, the 72 notebooks with Ice Lake-Y (which you forgot about) are all variations of Macbook Air.

That's why I'm suggesting a more qualitative approach, i.e. looking at what kind of notebooks get Ice Lake. Few months ago, at the moment @Vayra86 stopped updating, these were just a few low-volume products (expensive 2in1s).
Today 10nm is in many mainstream / bestselling lines.
Also, just the fact that Apple puts it into Macbook Air and Dell into XPS is a sign there are no quality / supply issues. They wouldn't take that risk.

Which is an optimal configuration for 15W SoCs - the most popular type of consumer CPU we have today.
Smaller 10nm SoCs will arrive this year. Larger - this or next year.
Big desktop CPUs will come last... or never.
While I agree that counting available SKUs is problematic (as you say, there are dozens of Apple models as they have 3-5 options each for CPU, SSD and RAM, with GPUs added to that for higher end ones, making for a whackton of SKUs for each laptop line), but saying "they're in premium lineups so there's wide availability" is a fallacy. They're in premium laptop lineups because they're new and fancy and can sell on novelty (and not "Skylake 7.0!" or whatever). Premium devices are flagships and generally not mass-market devices (even if some lineups do sell a lot) - Dell XPS and Macbook Air are not "mainstream" by any stretch of the imagination, even if they aren't the most expensive devices out there. All this tells us is that there's enough availability for Intel to guarantee supply for these premium lineups, but nothing more. The true proof of wide 10nm availability would be that most/all laptops moved to this, or if cheaper, more mass-market SKUs adopted it. They have generally not, and will likely never do so.

And if we're talking putting chips where the profits are, Intel would have been pushing 10nm to the server world as soon as they could. Margins there are much higher than in the mobile space, and volumes dramatically higher too. And desktop chips would then follow as soon as supply and demand evens out - desktop chips are essentially derivatives of low-end server chips, after all.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
11,365 (5.63/day)
Location
Mars
Processor i7 8700k 4.7Ghz @ 1.26v
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Eizo Foris FG2421
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Power Supply EVGA G2 750w
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Sharkoon MK80 (Brown)
Software W10 x64
What?
Seriously, you're either not tracking the PC market at all or just ignoring mobile segment on purpose.

Ice Lake is available in normal, common notebooks. It's normally available in stores. And it's been there for a few months already.
You're repreating arguments from half a year ago or older. I don't understand why you're unwilling to just CHECK if they're still valid.
You really like Intel to fail and you're going to hold on to this narrative?

Why would it not be? Why would Intel offer Ice Lake for mainstream products if it wasn't making money?
And at the end of the day Intel's profit margin is still way higher than AMD (even higher than TSMC's). And it already includes those years of 10nm development with no sales.
You want to deny that as well?
Well, since you seem to know, give us some numbers? What did Intel sell?

As for the second question, Intel offers Ice Lake for many more reasons than just 'profit'. Profit is also branding and mindshare. Not releasing 10nm is a failure and damages that. Another argument that isn't profit related is fab capacity. 14nm is still under pressure, so any available 10nm capacity, even if the yields aren't optimal, is still welcome to relieve pressure.

With 7nm this close, Intel is in a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't' situation, I think. Its not like I'm sitting here rubbing my hands and smiling for it. Its just my analysis of how this node develops for them. How it relates to AMD's market share is not even in my mind tbh.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
7,268 (4.10/day)
Processor Intel i5-6600k (AMD Ryzen5 3600 in a box, waiting for a mobo)
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Extreme7+
Cooling Arctic Cooling Freezer i11
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V (@3200)
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 3TB Seagate
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
316 (5.27/day)
System Name ARF System 1
Processor AMD Athlon 64 4400+ X2
Motherboard ASRock 939A790GMH 790GX
Cooling Arctic Freezer 13
Memory 4 x 1 GB DDR400
Video Card(s) Radeon ASUS EAH4670/DI/512MD3
Storage ADATA XPG SX900 128 GB
Display(s) LG 24UD58-B
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus
Software Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit, all updates installed
Top