Lenovo T480 Thermal Throttling below 60C

[bavees]

Hello everyone,

I've been having a ton of trouble with various types of throttling on my Lenovo T480. It's mainly used for work so I dont expect to properly game on it but I do like to play the occasional cs:go match or some wow classic dungeons when I'm travelling with it.
So long story short my inital toruble were mostly related to power limit throttling but by undervolting the CPU & raising the power max values in Throttlestop's TPL I seem to have gotten rid of this. At least I no longer see and TDP throttling which is nice.
However I played around some more because the cooling on this laptop is horrendous so any game (even 10-15yr old ones) would just super quickly skyrocket the CPU to over 80C and it would throttle down to 400mhz.
So my current setup is the following. TPFan control is installed and set to put fan at max speed as low as 60C to keep the CPU temp below the 80's when playing. It mostly works and when it reaches 80 TPFan just put the fan at emergency speed and quickyl cools it down in a minute or so. To achieve this I have locked my CPU to not boos over 2.3ghz because it would otherwise boot to 4.2 when playing 15yr old games which run just as good at 2ghz. Thus creating a ton of temp for no reason at all. With this setup everything was working fine. My BIOS is the latest version available from Lenovo as there was a recent fix released because their laptops would severely thottle both CPU & GPU when either hit ~70C. Nvidia control pannel has any possible settings to max performance as well.

My problem right now is that without any changes to the throttlestop settings, nvidia settings, no updates installed and laptop cleaned as recently as last week. The darn thing absolutely randomly Thermal throttles at 50-60C and goes all the way down to 400mhz. I have attached the log file that it generated and also screens from my home page, FIVR and TPL settings in the hope that someone has had similar problems and can suggest why this is throttling at below 60c. Weird thing is that even now I can sometime put in a 6hr session playing with no fps drops and zero throttling. But most of the time as soon as we hit 60c it goes down to 1ghz and then to 400mhz.

Any suggestions are highly apprecited.

PS: Lenovo Intelligent Thermal Solution is turned off, drives uninstalled because I read on a couple lenovo forums that this heavily limits CPU performance. Though keeeping it off did seem to margianlly improve things I woul say it didnt change anything overall.

Specs of the laptop are:
i7 8650U
32GB RAM
Nvidia MX150 GPU
BOIS version: N24ET59W (1.32) from June 2nd 2020

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Tried replacing the thermal paste?

 

[Shou Miko]

Tried replacing the thermal paste?

If the T480 is still under warranty as I assume it is, I wouldn't do it myself if the owner haven't done it before.

Check warranty with the serial number here: https://support.lenovo.com/uk/en/warrantylookup

If still under warranty call Lenovo and ask them to fix the problem if it's under warranty.

 

[bavees]

Yeah it still has 1.5 yrs of waranty as its my company laptop. I'm just trying to fix it myself because we wait 2-3 weeks for any repair and are issued a sub par laptop in the meantime. But its looking all the more likely that I might need to go down that route

 

[Shou Miko]

Yeah it still has 1.5 yrs of waranty as its my company laptop. I'm just trying to fix it myself because we wait 2-3 weeks for any repair and are issued a sub par laptop in the meantime. But its looking all the more likely that I might need to go down that route

Lol WTH why 2-3 weeks to get it fixed? Where in the world are you sir?

Here in europe it's like 1-2 days for normal On-Site warranty and bring-in is more of cause.

But you ain't the only one with this problem because T470 and T580 users also complain about about this even with i5 model: https://www.google.com/search?q=Len...ome..69i57.19455j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[bavees]

I'm in Europe but I work for IBM so we don't give it to Lenovo. They're already on site and I just join the long queue of laptops that need to be serviced on site... And yeah that generation think pads just have awful cooling. I dont think its random that Lenovo seem to push a BIOS every few months or so but it's just not fixing anyhting whatsoever.

 

[unclewebb]

A supposed engineer at Lenovo has dreamed up a truly bizarre throttling scheme. A variety of recent Lenovo laptops are using software that can vary the thermal throttling temperature. Intel sets the default thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the majority of their CPUs but they allow manufacturers to use an offset value so they can lower this slightly. At default settings, Lenovo is using a PROCHOT Offset (processor hot) value of 3°C. This lowers the thermal throttling temperature from 100°C down to 97°C.

That is fine. The problem is when they take this idea to an extreme level. Some Lenovo laptops are setting the Offset value to 35°C. Now instead of thermal throttling at 100°C, the CPU will be thermal throttling at 65°C (100°C - 35°C) or worse. Instead of the CPU running at 4000 MHz, now it is thermal throttling down to 400 MHz because the CPU thinks it is overheating even when its core temperature is nowhere near the Intel specified value of 100°C.

Absolutely ridiculous.

The good news is that the latest version of ThrottleStop has a fix for this. Open the Options window, check the PROCHOT Offset box and set that to the Lenovo default value of 3. Check the Lock PROCHOT Offset option above that, press OK and the problem is solved. This locks the processor hot temperature to 97°C. This register will remain locked whether ThrottleStop is running or not. You will need to reboot to unlock it.

You can add ThrottleStop to your Windows start up sequence using the Task Scheduler.

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@bavees - As for the rest of your ThrottleStop settings, if you are going to use ThrottleStop to undervolt the CPU, you need to undervolt both the CPU core and CPU cache. Set both of these to -100 mV and then start testing for stability. Your screenshot shows that you have set only the CPU core to -240 mV. This will do nothing. The CPU will ignore this undervolt request until the cache is also adjusted.

 

[bavees]

Thank unclewebb that actually sounds super relevant to my use case. Just got TS 9.0 and set the offset to 3 & locked it. Also made the correction to adjust CPU cache voltage as well as I had left that untouched. I'll play around today and tomorrow under some higher loads and see if that helped but I'm pretty hopeful so far. Thanks a lot for the info, appreciate it!

@unclewebb // Been playing around with higher loads a few hours yesterday and this morning. It seems that in a recent update Lenovo may have put back that offset to 30-ish because there was a specific bios update to fix this because of the numerous complaints. But regardless of how it came back the fact is that since setting it back to an offset of 3 I spent a couple hours fiddling around and didnt trip a single limit. Also thanks for the pointe for the CPU cache, now the undervolting is indeed having an effect.
So a big thanks for that suggestion it seems to have solved the pointless throttling!

 

[bavees]

Just to give a final report for any future readers. That seems to have been the cause of my problems.
2 days now and only limit I tripped was PL1 but that was when briefly unplugging the charger while stressing the system so completely normal and avoidable with a bit of fiddling.
Recap of the fix: prochot seems to have been offset by alot more than the default 3 so just set it to be 3 and locked it as suggested above.

 

[ereko]

Let me take a look with teamviewer, I think I can do lot of good things for you in 10minutes. PM with ip and pw if you want

 

[unclewebb]

...unplugging the charger while stressing

It is common for laptops to briefly reduce the power limits or CPU speed when changing to battery power. Doing this keeps the battery from going ka-boom.

Great to see that ThrottleStop has been able to fix the Lenovo random throttling temperature bug. This was a horrible idea from Lenovo and is responsible for killing the performance of many of their recent laptops. I am sure if they ever get caught, it will all just be some sort of big mistake.

Using ThrottleStop to set and lock the PROCHOT Offset value is the only way to fix this issue.

 

[salvattore001]

hi . i'm wondering what PROCHOT Offset would be safe for a ThinkPad T470. i understand that a temperature of ~100° is okay for the CPU, but could that be potentially damaging for other components of the laptop?

 

[unclewebb]

@salvattore001 - The PROCHOT Offset feature was added to ThrottleStop specifically for Lenovo laptops. They are the only company that I know of that is adjusting the thermal throttling temperature while the laptop is running. If you think that Lenovo doing this is a good idea then do not adjust this setting in ThrottleStop. Personally, I think this is a horrible idea. If it was my laptop, I would use the Lock PROCHOT Offset feature to prevent Lenovo from doing this.

 

[salvattore001]

@unclewebb i don't think it's a good idea at all, but being honest i really can't afford a new laptop if it gets damaged. it is said that this model has a deficient cooling system because of its small size, so i'm looking for T470 specific experiencies with the prochot offset. i've been using an offset of 10 in the last month and still looking for more information just to be sure

 

[unclewebb]

i don't think it's a good idea at all

The Intel default value for PROCHOT Offset is 0. It is OK to set this to 10 so your laptop does not exceed 90°C. I would still lock this setting. No other laptop manufacturer is changing the thermal throttling temperature while in Windows. Lenovo should set this to a fixed value and leave it alone.

Check out the forums on Notebook Review. You will have a better chance of talking with someone over there that owns a T470 or T480.

 

[HellzStormer]

Thank you unclewebb!

I have a T490 and have been using Throttlestop since the beginning to make it basically useable for video games. I still had a problem where sometimes, for no reason, when above around 56°C on my GPU, the games would just hang until the gpu got lower. I never could figure it out. The best I could do what throttle my GPU enough to keep it mostly under 56°C. It would usually go a bit above and i could get short spikes when Lenovo decided that it had to go back down to 56.

Thanks to the latest version of ThrottleStop, I could see that prochot dropping to 65°C andsearching with that lead me here. Is there somewhere I can send you some $, ThrottleStop and this latest post made my laptop basically what I expected when I bought it.

As a side note, since ThrottleStop can clearly see the toggling between 65 and 97, I might be a cool idea to show a button for "more info" that basically contains exactly what you wrote in your first post.

 

[scr4bble]

I only managed to solve this problem by checking the "FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits".

 

[unclewebb]

FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits

I always recommend doing that. A lot of laptops are dynamically lowering these secondary power limits way too low. The Disable and Lock option prevents that from happening. ThrottleStop 9.4 now reports the secondary MMIO power limits in the TPL window. You can use the MMIO Lock option in the TPL window or you can use the Disable and Lock option in the FIVR window to prevent these power limits from randomly changing.

If you have a Lenovo laptop, I also recommend checking the PROCHOT Offset and Lock PROCHOT Offset boxes in the Options window. Only Lenovo seems to be dynamically changing the thermal throttling temperature. No other manufacturer seems to be doing this. Not sure why manufacturers dream up these throttling schemes. Severe throttling as low as 400 MHz makes for a miserable user experience.

 

[Burner.Tom]

If you have a Lenovo laptop, I also recommend checking the PROCHOT Offset and Lock PROCHOT Offset boxes in the Options window. Only Lenovo seems to be dynamically changing the thermal throttling temperature. No other manufacturer seems to be doing this. Not sure why manufacturers dream up these throttling schemes. Severe throttling as low as 400 MHz makes for a miserable user experience.

ThrottleStop is new for me but I think I do understand that on Options page, Miscellaneous section I have to check "Lock PROCHOT Offset" and also check "PROCHOT Offset" and set it to the desired temperature offset, 3 for example.
But what about "FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits" - where to set it exactly please?
I'm using Lenovo TP T480 with i7-8550U + MX150.
Thx.

 

[unclewebb]

what about "FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits" - where to set it exactly please?

Press the FIVR button on the main ThrottleStop screen and open up the FIVR window.

I never thought a guide would be necessary.

 

[Burner.Tom]

Press the FIVR button on the main ThrottleStop screen and open up the FIVR window.

I never thought a guide would be necessary.

View attachment 226341

Thx. 4 quick reply.
I figured it meanwhile but then, there is another question - how is this setting related to Memory frequency as it is in "Memory - DDR 4000" (in you case) section please? - this is what confused me.

 

[unclewebb]

how is this setting related to Memory frequency

Good question. This setting locks the power limit register that is located in a Memory Mapped I/O location. No one knows what memory mapped is all about so that got shortened to Memory.

A few years went by and one day, I found out how to read the memory speed from the CPU. I had no idea where to include this useful information. Memory speed is related to memory so I just added this info to where it says Memory.

You are 100% correct. The Disable and Lock feature has nothing to do with memory speed. Realizing this, the Disable and Lock feature got moved into the TPL window. This makes more logical sense now. Checking this box locks the Memory Mapped I/O Turbo Power Limits.

Checking the MMIO (Memory Mapped I/O) Lock box does the exact same thing as checking the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. The Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits check box is no longer needed but it has not yet been removed. So far I have left it as is for backward compatibility. There are 1001 guides and forum posts that recommend checking the Disable and Lock box. When / if I remove the Disable and Lock option in the ThrottleStop FIVR window, I will need to endlessly explain what has happened to this useful feature.

Now I can send them to this post for a full explanation.

 

[Burner.Tom]

Good question. This setting locks the power limit register that is located in a Memory Mapped I/O location. No one knows what memory mapped is all about so that got shortened to Memory.

A few years went by and one day, I found out how to read the memory speed from the CPU. I had no idea where to include this useful information. Memory speed is related to memory so I just added this info to where it says Memory.

You are 100% correct. The Disable and Lock feature has nothing to do with memory speed. Realizing this, the Disable and Lock feature got moved into the TPL window. This makes more logical sense now. Checking this box locks the Memory Mapped I/O Turbo Power Limits.

View attachment 226347

Checking the MMIO (Memory Mapped I/O) Lock box does the exact same thing as checking the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. The Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits check box is no longer needed but it has not yet been removed. So far I have left it as is for backward compatibility. There are 1001 guides and forum posts that recommend checking the Disable and Lock box. When / if I remove the Disable and Lock option in the ThrottleStop FIVR window, I will need to endlessly explain what has happened to this useful feature.

Now I can send them to this post for a full explanation.

Thx. 4 quick reply and detailed explanation.
I can confirm that checking the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box in FIVR window also Lock the MIMO in TPL window.
But because it is not obvious (for newbies like me) that this two differently looking settings are in fact the very same setting, it caused some confusion.
So maybe some tooltip / pop-up window will be useful once you enable either of mentioned setting telling you that in fact it also change the second one setting in another window.