Limited Budget Upgrade Thoughts Please !!

[Haz197]

Ok, so here it is......

I have a limited upgrade budget and was wondering what path would give me the best performance.

My current rig is:

p4 (s478)
DDR1
X1950XT agp.

I was thinking about upgrading to either:

S478 Asrock mobo with PCIE
Using my DDR1 (for now)
and a nice shinny new hd3870x2 (when they come out)

or......

S775 mobo with AGP and PCIE
Q6600
Buy some cheap DDR2
Use my X1950XT AGP

I know the new S775 mobo with PCIE & AGP would be better in the long run but would a hd3870x2 give me more performance on a 3.7 northy than an x1950xt on a q6600 ? I could then get a nice mobo and chip about easter time.

 

[choppy]

you'll be bottlenecked pretty bad on the s478 upgrade, just go s775 and this will give you a much better upgrade option for the future

 

[GruntOrama]

Yeah I had the same problem. All my crap bottlenecked and I have to buy a whole new system basically. You'll be better off going with the S775

 

[freaksavior]

go the S775 route or save a little longer and get a good mobo thats not ddr1/2 and agp/pci-e, instead ddr2 and pci-e

 

[Grings]

i'd avoid any pci-e and agp 775 boards as the pci-e is only 4x, not enough bandwidth for a new dx10 card

 

[Mussels]

at 4GHz, any 478 CPU will struggle to match a core 2 (775) at 2Ghz. seriously, get the CPU upgrade, even if if its one of the cheap models to start with.

oh and as the others said - some of the combo boards look great, but they all have the same flaw, that the PCI-E slot is only 4x, even tho it looks 16x - this is ok for weak cards (upto around the 8600GT/2600XT) but anything faster is hampered.


my advised system
asus P5K-E wifi edition (supports 16x/4x crossfire, thus the 2600xt suggestion below)
core 2 duo 1.8Ghz (E2160 i think)
2GB DDR2 800 (cheap, will let board reach 400FSB)
2600XT (and crossfire two later)/3850/8800GT (in that order, slowest to fastest)

reason being with some aftermarket cooler on that CPU, you can reach 3.2Ghz (400FSB instead of 200, ram runs at 800 and its fast as hell)
its cheap and fast, and you can buy a better CPU later (45nm, when they come out)

 

[choppy]

at 4GHz, any 478 CPU will struggle to match a core 2 (775) at 2Ghz. seriously, get the CPU upgrade, even if if its one of the cheap models to start with.

oh and as the others said - some of the combo boards look great, but they all have the same flaw, that the PCI-E slot is only 4x, even tho it looks 16x - this is ok for weak cards (upto around the 8600GT/2600XT) but anything faster is hampered.


my advised system
asus P5K-E wifi edition (supports 16x/4x crossfire, thus the 2600xt suggestion below)
core 2 duo 1.8Ghz (E2160 i think)
2GB DDR2 800 (cheap, will let board reach 400FSB)
2600XT (and crossfire two later)/3850/8800GT (in that order, slowest to fastest)

reason being with some aftermarket cooler on that CPU, you can reach 3.2Ghz (400FSB instead of 200, ram runs at 800 and its fast as hell)
its cheap and fast, and you can buy a better CPU later (45nm, when they come out)

man seems to be skint hence hes thinking of doing a cheap upgrade! p35-ds3l should be good enough with e2160 and yes ddr2-800 is dirt cheap right now, maybe you can stick to onboard, save up then splash on a 3870x2 when theyr released..

 

[Haz197]

holy crap !! ... didn't expect so many replies so fast !!

1. A 4ghz northy = 2ghz C2D ??? really ? that cant be right..... I'm sure i read somewhere that a 2ghz C2D = 3.2 northy ??

2. yes this is a budget upgrade but I can probably stretch to £400 (1x X800XTPE not so long ago)

the reason I ask about the AGP S775 mobos is that I just spent a ton on my x1950xt agp ( and 60 quid on a 3.4 northy so I do want to get the most from my old parts, or at least sell them to get some cash back.

The general feel seems to be that I should just go the whole hog but if i do get a Q6600 I need a nice mobo to overclock, does anyone know what is best for this, under £50 would be nice? I have p4p800 atm and would like to stay asus but hey

If I got a AGP S775 and a Q6600 would my x1950xt be any quicker? I could wait for a board to overclock and some nice DDR3 or something next xmas (or sooner depending on how I play it with the missus) and would stretch a bit more from my card which btw plays BioShock in 1600x1200 max quality 2x AA 16x AF nice and smooth (22 - 50 fps) and this is the whole thing that gets me .... if I can play a game in the same resolution as those peeps with the same card as me and a better chip (c2d @ 3ghz) I don't see how I'm bandwidth limited ??

anyway I gotta go home now so will take this up tomorrow ....

 

[choppy]

haz,

1. you read wrong! mussels said a 4ghz northy will NOT keep up with a c2d at 2ghz!

2. why spend so much money on old parts?

imo take up s775 and pcie gfx, heres what i think you should buy:

cos ur thinking abt the future, buy a mobo and psu that will last you. p35 will see you through 45nm generation, mobo is a good oc'er, just google it for some reviews. psu shud be powerful enough for hd3870x2 too. all this is at SCAN btw

mobo - Gigabyte P35-DS3L £56
psu - 550w Corsair VX Series PSU £55

buy yourself a cheap c2d and ddr2 ram is cheap anyway. save up then get yourself that quad core if you want. cpu has lots of oc potential too

cpu - intel e2160 £47
ram - 2x1GB Corsair TwinX XMS2 ddr2-800 £38

you may or may not need the following

Samsung SH-S203D/BEBN £17
250 Gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 £42

this is around £250 which leaves you £150, buy a cheapish gfx card (8600gt?)
case?
os?

i assume you have mouse/keyboard, monitor

 

[keakar]

haz,

1. you read wrong! mussels said a 4ghz northy will NOT keep up with a c2d at 2ghz!

2. why spend so much money on old parts?

imo take up s775 and pcie gfx, heres what i think you should buy:

cos ur thinking abt the future, buy a mobo and psu that will last you. p35 will see you through 45nm generation, mobo is a good oc'er, just google it for some reviews. psu shud be powerful enough for hd3870x2 too. all this is at SCAN btw

mobo - Gigabyte P35-DS3L £56
psu - 550w Corsair VX Series PSU £55

buy yourself a cheap c2d and ddr2 ram is cheap anyway. save up then get yourself that quad core if you want. cpu has lots of oc potential too

cpu - intel e2160 £47
ram - 2x1GB Corsair TwinX XMS2 ddr2-800 £38

you may or may not need the following

Samsung SH-S203D/BEBN £17
250 Gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 £42

this is around £250 which leaves you £150, buy a cheapish gfx card (8600gt?)
case?
os?

i assume you have mouse/keyboard, monitor

i think this is your best solution and then upgrade to a q6600 or better later along with a better grafics card or just go for the EVGA 8800gt now

 

[Mussels]

i've only used asus mobos thus my suggestion there - if a gigabyte mobo is cheaper and can still OC, go for it.

Just choose a P35 mobo, so that you can take 45nm quad cores when you do get the money.

 

[spud107]

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=221368&doy=7m12
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=A72HC&DOY=7m12
or
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=220998&doy=7m12
in stock in 7 days
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221899&&source=14&doy=7m12

 

[Haz197]

Hi guys,

Thanks for everyones' replies, i gotta bit to think about !!

I might just go with a cheap c2 and ddr2 as it seems this will be the best bang for buck right now but .... I don't wanna buy something for like £250 - £400 and only get 15 - 20% over my x1950xt which is a great card.

I have seen lots of different models of the Core2 architecture .... are they all the same basicaly apart from fsb and l2 ? if so which should i go for ... the most expensive I can afford?

Also upgrading to an 8600 isn't exactly an upgrade from my x1950xt and I have never really been a fan of nvidia ever since i got ripped on a 4800ti (4400ti with 8x agp bus) and took it back for a 9700pro so I think I would like the hd3870x2 .... or even two of them

but anyway ... the question still remains.... whould i get better performance from a s775 board and ddr2 and my x1950xt with q6600 or.....

s478 board with PCIE (there are some with full 16x), ddr1 and a new gpu (8800gt min) ??

Those are my options at present.

 

[choppy]

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=221368&doy=7m12
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=A72HC&DOY=7m12
or
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=220998&doy=7m12
in stock in 7 days
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221899&&source=14&doy=7m12

spud, 2 things you should realise about maplin, 1.theyr a ripoff 2.theyr a huge ripoff!

the p31-ds3l board is £80!! scan sell it for under £50, the p35-ds3l is a far better board anyway
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=657881

 

[Haz197]

ok so how about this ??

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(18045)Asrock-motherboard-4CoreDualSATA2-LGA775.aspx

and ...

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(27404)Geil-Ultra-DDR2-20GB-PC6400-800MHz-44412.aspx

and

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(21806)Intel-CPU-Core-2-Quad-Pro-Q6600-95W-Energy.aspx

????

£260 and I can still use my x1950xt agp and look at getting a better mobo in the new year and PCIE card.

oh and ..... will this chip out perform my currect 3.7+ northy ?? and by how much in single thread apps ? are there any direct comparisons between northwood and core architectures?

 

[Mussels]

On the core two line: cache matters, and quad is best.

That said, go for the extremes - if you want cheap, the 1.6Ghz 1MB model is cheap as chips (lol@pun), and lets you OC to 2.5GHz+. in 2MB, they arent that good OCing atm, so i'd avoid those. 4MB, that leaves teh E6750, E6850 (good OCer) and then in 8Mb, the Q6600 G0.


I've really ran through a lot of core 2's, and for some reason the latest allendales (e4x00 series) run very hot. they arent good for OCing anymore, so avoid them. E2x and Q/E6x series are the best choices.

 

[Haz197]

On the core two line: cache matters, and quad is best.

That said, go for the extremes - if you want cheap, the 1.6Ghz 1MB model is cheap as chips (lol@pun), and lets you OC to 2.5GHz+. in 2MB, they arent that good OCing atm, so i'd avoid those. 4MB, that leaves teh E6750, E6850 (good OCer) and then in 8Mb, the Q6600 G0.


I've really ran through a lot of core 2's, and for some reason the latest allendales (e4x00 series) run very hot. they arent good for OCing anymore, so avoid them. E2x and Q/E6x series are the best choices.

so the e2xxx are core 2 chips ? thought the were pentium d beasts, hmmmm so a nice motherboard and an e2140 for example would hit 2.5+ ?? thats something to think about, would free up cash for grafix card too.

I been looking today (whilst at work) at the Asus P5E (x38), I could get it with a q6600go and 2gb ddr2 800 and a 8800gt for a shade over 5 ton, and then I got some hardware to sell as well .......... but will my woman agree ?

where is the best place to sell my p4p800, 2.8&3.4 northys, x800xtpe & x1950xt and pc3200 ?? i dont like ebay, my m8s are always ripping peeps off on there.

 

[Darren]

Hatz, calm down, your from the UK, so I feel responsible for making sure you get a good deal. If your going the socket 775 route I recommend going for a quad core and avoiding the core 2 duo's.

As an alternative to a core 2 duo I recommend going Athlon route as you will save money. Although the highend core 2 duo's are good, but in the UK they cost more than the high end athlons. Example E6600 is about £145-160 in the UK, the Athlon 6000+ X2 is £90, and they are equivalent processors. Also AM2 motherboards tend to be a tad cheaper than 775's motherboards. The only time I recommend a core to duo is if your over clocking a low end model such as the Intel E2160 then they are economical beasts!!! But if you got the money an Intel Q6600 is the way to go really.

Why spend money at Micro Direct, when everyone knows Ebuyer is the CHEAPEST computing supplier in the UK with free delivery when you spend over £49. You are going to spend £46 on 2GB memory from Micro Direct you can get 2GB memory for £26.99 at Ebuyer. I recommend getting 4GBs though.

OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz £35.98 inc VAT

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/116755

Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 675MHz/PC2-5400 £26.99

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/98708

If your looking to sell your old components I recommend CEX if you don't trust ebay. http://www.cex.co.uk/

edit: the Q6600 is £10 cheaper on Ebuyer http://www.ebuyer.com/product/131823
edit2: Asrock motherboard is also £1 cheaper http://www.ebuyer.com/product/131143/show_product_specifications

 

[Mussels]

the E2x00 series are called pentium D's, but they're really just a core 2 with 1MB cache. OC'd, they come very close to a 2-4MB CPU (3.4GHz E2x = 3Ghz on a 4MB chip) and yes 2.5G should be damned easy... there are reports of people passing 3.2 all over the place on those chips.


as for selling your hardware, dont know. i usually sell mine to friends.

 

[Haz197]

ok so what do you think of this then ......

Asus P5k IP35 AiLifestyle edition,
E2140 (should hit 3+ ghz)
2gb cheap pc6400 (4-4-4-12)
and a 3850 / 3870 / 8800gt

all for under £300 hopefully.

 

[Mussels]

ok so what do you think of this then ......

Asus P5k IP35 AiLifestyle edition,
E2140 (should hit 3+ ghz)
2gb cheap pc6400 (4-4-4-12)
and a 3850 / 3870 / 8800gt

all for under £300 hopefully.

one thing i know, the P5K-E is the cheapest Ocing mobo of the P5K line (at least when i got mine) as the plain 'vanilla' models dont have as good voltage control, so they cant OC as high.

the rest seems great. i vote for the GT tho, especially with tatty one's bios and cooling mods to overclock them to 'near' GTX speeds.

 

[keakar]

Ok, so here it is......

I have a limited upgrade budget and was wondering what path would give me the best performance.

My current rig is:

p4 (s478)
DDR1
X1950XT agp.

I was thinking about upgrading to either:

S478 Asrock mobo with PCIE
Using my DDR1 (for now)
and a nice shinny new hd3870x2 (when they come out)

or......

S775 mobo with AGP and PCIE
Q6600
Buy some cheap DDR2
Use my X1950XT AGP

I know the new S775 mobo with PCIE & AGP would be better in the long run but would a hd3870x2 give me more performance on a 3.7 northy than an x1950xt on a q6600 ? I could then get a nice mobo and chip about easter time.

as you can see in my specs i am in the same possition as you are, after months figuring ways i can upgrade by reusing some of my components i came to the this conclusion:

cpu - gotta go with the q6600

motherboard - get the gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, i figured out that no matter which way i go i will still need another new motherboard to upgrade the video card because the asrock boards dont have good pcie support, none of the dual use boards do so even though it works it isnt letting you get any performance benefit from the new card.

ram - any 2x1gb ddr2 800 ram costs $50 so forget trying to use your old outdated $150 ram

hard drive - the new 200-300gb sata 2 hard drives with 16mb cache are only $80 and so very much faster than that old IDE you are thinking of reusing

video card - this is where you will spend $, you should go for the EVGA 8800gt its worth every penny

everything i mentioned above can be bought at newegg for $800 and you add in your dvd drive, case + s&h $1000

the bottom line is forget upgrading, use yours as is untill you can afford the new rig. it is actually cheaper in the end to sell your system as it is and build new from scratch, all the time and money wasted upgrading this and that its not worth it. then your going to end up with a bunch of leftover parts you spent $ on and need to try to sell.

 

[Scrizz]

you should try to sell that vid card.
too bad the e4x00 line isn't as good as it used to. Just go get a Pentium Dual-Core e21x0, they're core-2 based and oc easily - even on air.
go for some DDR2 800, ddr2 is cheap as hell now.
and get a decent mobo (ie one of the ones suggested above)

 

[Scrizz]

as you can see in my specs i am in the same possition as you are, after months figuring ways i can upgrade by reusing some of my components i came to the this conclusion:

cpu - gotta go with the q6600

motherboard - get the gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, i figured out that no matter which way i go i will still need another new motherboard to upgrade the video card because the asrock boards dont have good pcie support, none of the dual use boards do so even though it works it isnt letting you get any performance benefit from the new card.

ram - any 2x1gb ddr2 800 ram costs $50 so forget trying to use your old outdated $150 ram

hard drive - the new 200-300gb sata 2 hard drives with 16mb cache are only $80 and so very much faster than that old IDE you are thinking of reusing

video card - this is where you will spend $, you should go for the EVGA 8800gt its worth every penny

everything i mentioned above can be bought at newegg for $800 and you add in your dvd drive, case + s&h $1000

the bottom line is it costs more but is actually cheaper to sell my system as it is and build new from scratch, when you figure all the time and money wasted upgrading this and that its not worth it. then your going to end up with a bunch of leftover parts you spent $ on and need to try to sell. forget upgrading, use yours as is untill you can afford the new rig.

you missed the under 400 part, right?

 

[Scrizz]

ok so what do you think of this then ......

Asus P5k IP35 AiLifestyle edition,
E2140 (should hit 3+ ghz)
2gb cheap pc6400 (4-4-4-12)
and a 3850 / 3870 / 8800gt

all for under £300 hopefully.

sounds good, all but the mobo.