LIMITS and newer generation processors

[Bogus5]

How much can I rely on the "Limits" warnings on 12th, 13th and 14th generation processors?
It is extremely difficult to stabilize these processors on TS 9.6.

 

[unclewebb]

What sort of problem are you having? Is your computer crashing with blue screens or is Limit Reasons lighting up like a Christmas tree?

Your CPU is definitely throttling if you are seeing boxes light up red in Limit Reasons. Thermal throttling or power limit throttling are common. Some benchmarks and some games will have modern Intel CPUs living on the edge of stability.

Post some screenshots and run a log file if you have any questions.

 

[Bogus5]

I'm just waiting for an answer as to whether the ThrottleStop program has implemented unpublished limits for modern processors.
You say many times that you have not had the opportunity to work with these processors so far.

 

[unclewebb]

has implemented unpublished limits for modern processors

All of the Limit Reasons are exactly the same for any Intel 6th Gen or newer CPU. This part of ThrottleStop did not require any changes to correctly support any of the newer CPUs.

You say many times that you have not had the opportunity to work with these processors so far.

That is true. I have done zero hands on testing of ThrottleStop on a 12th Gen or newer CPU.

It is extremely difficult to stabilize these processors on TS 9.6

What problem are you having?

 

[Bogus5]

It's not all that obvious that there aren't any changes, because there must be if I can completely stabilize the i7-9750H, and I can't fix the i9-13980HX. No matter what you try, there's always something wrong, and I've done a lot of Mambo-Jumbo before. It has calmed down a bit after lowering the voltages of its own GPU, but it still displays EDP OTHER in the RING section.

 

[unclewebb]

it still displays EDP OTHER in the RING section.

Some processors constantly show EDP OTHER in the RING section. You can be mostly idle at the desktop, you can press the Clear button in Limit Reasons and a millisecond later the EDP OTHER box will light up yellow again. I am not sure why this happens. This could be a bug or limitation at the CPU level. ThrottleStop is just reporting the information that it finds in the Limit Reasons register.

Some 12th Gen processors used to trigger EDP OTHER in red constantly. This trick was used by some manufacturers to run the cache speed at the same frequency as the base frequency of the processor. They deliberately throttled the cache. Trying to run the cache at full speed caused instability so this was the easiest and cheapest way for a manufacturer to improve stability.

You should not expect to see a totally black Limit Reasons screen all of the time. For some computers you might see a black Limit Reasons screen but for many computers, there is always something in yellow.

completely stabilize

This is not a stability issue. If your computer crashes, that is a problem.

 

[LittleWarlock]

Some processors constantly show EDP OTHER in the RING section. You can be mostly idle at the desktop, you can press the Clear button in Limit Reasons and a millisecond later the EDP OTHER box will light up yellow again. I am not sure why this happens. This could be a bug or limitation at the CPU level. ThrottleStop is just reporting the information that it finds in the Limit Reasons register.

Switching the power mode to "balanced" mode was a solution on some devices I used. It happens for me when Power mode is selected Performance.

 

[Bogus5]

It's not so rosy again, because "EDP OTHER" in the "RING" section, it's the CPU that generates in idle mode, and in turbo mode under load it's much worse.

 

[unclewebb]

VR CURRENT throttling means the voltage regulators are not able to deliver adequate current to the CPU.

Either the voltage regulators are damaged or the manufacturer of your laptop decided to use voltage regulators that are under designed. They might not be able to fully power your CPU during a full load stress test.

What laptop model do you have? Is this your ROG Strix Scar 18? Did your laptop have this problem when it was new?

Post FIVR and TPL screenshots so I can see what settings you are using.

 

[Bogus5]

It's the ASUS ROG Strix G16 (2023) G614 G614JI-N4146W bought 3 months ago.
The only hardware changes are the addition of a 2 TB disk and the replacement of memory modules at 5600 MT/s.

 

[unclewebb]

bought 3 months ago

When did you first start seeing VR CURRENT throttling warnings? If this never used to happen then it is likely one of the voltage regulators is damaged.

If this has been happening since day 1, it is likely bad design. You should never see this type of throttling.

 

[Bogus5]

You should never see this type of throttling.

This happens only under heavy CPU load in Turbo mode, where the manufacturer's default settings are PL1 - 170 W and PL2 - 175 W.
Anyway, these limits seem exaggerated anyway, if the maximum power of the i9-13980HX is 157 W.

 

[unclewebb]

the maximum power of the i9-13980HX is 157 W

Your screenshot shows voltage regulator current throttling is limiting the CPU to 158W. The voltage regulators Asus chose to use seem to be just barely adequate. I can run my desktop 10850K on an Asus Z490 motherboard at over 300W with zero voltage regulator related throttling in Limit Reasons. Desktop computers have better airflow and have more room for bigger heatsinks. Asus high end Z790 desktop motherboards likely use much higher rated voltage regulators compared to what your Asus laptop uses.

When full load testing, as the voltage regulators heat up, the amount of throttling might start to increase. If that is what you mean by trying to get your CPU stable, that would make a lot of sense. You are fighting a battle that you cannot win. Full load power consumption of just the CPU has tripled compared to your 9750H laptop.

Asus might have been forced to use voltage regulators with a lower current limit rating to try and improve battery run time but they probably did this to reduce heat output. A laptop that you can actually use on your lap is a feature that most users appreciate.

 

[Bogus5]

Yes, it's a vicious circle even in TS, because you lower the CPU voltages to reduce the temperature, and at the same time you increase the current in IccMax, which increases the temperature by a few degrees, and that's what this fight looks like in laptops. Correcting CPU power limits inflated by manufacturers is, in my opinion, a mandatory action if someone wants to use the laptop for work and play, and not to break records in benchmarks.

 

[career]

It's not so rosy again, because "EDP OTHER" in the "RING" section, it's the CPU that generates in idle mode, and in turbo mode under load it's much worse.

It's the ASUS ROG Strix G16 (2023) G614 G614JI-N4146W bought 3 months ago.

To be honest, recently i saw a post on another forum which was about an almost correct approach when buying Asus laptop nowdays. The author claimed that his final item was fourth, so first three were having defects, and not all defects were the same by the way. So, the final exchange brings him the laptop that has minimum (or none at all) throttling as well as absence of any issues with other components of the laptop. The model were Asus ROG Strix Scar G18 2023.

I have Asus laptop too, and yes it does have some issues. I do not mean that you have some kind of bad or even worse sample. Just to be noticed, you'd better looked and checked every component twice under buying process. Everything must be well tested before you buy it.

Good luck with it anyway!

 

[Bogus5]

In fact, this is not a disadvantage, but a consequence of using a CPU with a maximum power limit of 157 W. Neither liquid metal nor lowering CPU voltages will cause the power limits to shift significantly for this CPU, especially since the chassis of this laptop is not very airy.
There are optionally liquid-cooled laptops, and that's an option.

The ASUS hardware forum is full of complaining mainly about laptops, but in my opinion these laptops are good, they just have terrible firmware ("Armory Crate") that unnecessarily increases the limits for the CPU in Turbo mode. This may work on slower CPUs, but it doesn't work on the i9-13980HX.

To sum up, I'm going to add information about the i9-13980HX CPU from this forum, because it's worth reading these parameters carefully before you start fiddling with the CPU settings.

Intel Core i9-13980HX Specs

Raptor Lake-HX, 24 Cores, 32 Threads, 2.2 GHz, 55 W

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