Low FPS in games despite low CPU & GPU usage

[setik]

In Deep Rock Galactic my CPU hovers around 35% usage at 75°C and 25 W, and my GPU around 45% usage at 70°C. This doesn’t change even under stress where fps goes below 40. Risk of Rain 2 has similar GPU/CPU values, albeit slightly higher everything. Out of all 12 cores MSI Afterburner displays, ‘CPU3’ is usually the most in use, averaging 70% usage. All cores are at 4000 MHz.

I’m not sure what the ‘bottleneck’ is, but I assume it’s my CPU’s single core performance (presumably CPU3)? I’ve seen similar posts made for GTA and Warzone where responses said the CPU needs an upgrade. If that’s the problem, should I remove my -100 mV CPU core and -50 mV cache undervolt, and could I figure out a way the turbo clock of some cores beyond 4000 MHz? (Additionally could increasing graphics settings somehow alleviate the CPU workload?)

When I run Cinebench I get 100% CPU usage at 90°C and 58 W. I understand that this is using all cores maximally, whereas games aren’t optimised to do so, but it’s still disappointing. Running Unigine Heaven I also get 100% GPU usage at 70°C.

Is there something going wrong or is this the nature of games vs benchmarks?

Specs:

Laptop: Asus ROG Zephyrus M GU502

CPU: Intel i7 9750H

GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti Mobile

RAM: 32GB DDR4 PC4-21300 2666MT/s 260-pin SODIMM Non ECC Memory

SSD: Crucial 2TB P3 Plus

BIOS: ASUS .307

 

[P4-630]

Out of all 12 cores

It's a 6-core CPU with 12-threads

‘CPU3’ is usually the most in use, averaging 70% usage.

Possibly the bottleneck here.

 

[setik]

It's a 6-core CPU with 12-threads


Possibly the bottleneck here.

Alright, so how do I overclock that specific thread? Is it with turbo ratio limits? It won't let me increase them past 45, how can I unlock them? (I don't think I can find an older BIOS version for my laptop model)

 

[unclewebb]

whereas games aren’t optimized to do so

That's the problem. It is difficult to code a game so it can fully take advantage of all the cores and threads that modern CPUs have available.

The FIVR window shows that the 9750H does not support any overclocking.

Setting the turbo ratios higher than the default turbo ratios listed will be ignored by the CPU. You might as well set them to 45, 44, 43, 42, 41, 40 because any higher does not accomplish anything.

Setting the turbo time limit to 3+ million seconds also does not accomplish too much. 40+ days of turbo boost would be a lot but it does not actually work. The CPU ignores these kind of excessive turbo time requests too. The default 28 second turbo time limit is fine. I would clear the Sync MMIO box and I would check the MMIO Lock box instead.

You can set IccMax to the max, 255.75, for both the core and the cache.

The Task Manager graphs you posted do not show CPU usage. They show CPU Utilization. This is meaningless data when you have an Intel mobile CPU that uses a high percentage of turbo boost. Actual CPU usage is a lot lower than those graphs indicate. Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option. A log file is more useful than Task Manger graph data. You can attach a log file of some game action if you want me to have a look.

Unigine Heaven

This benchmark puts very little load on a CPU. It is about as single threaded as a benchmark can be.

 

[Deleted member 232685]

Laptop: Asus ROG Zephyrus M GU502

Have you tried to change your system performance governor ??

I have a similar laptop with the same problem, I changed the governor.
Now it is faster, but it also gets a bit hotter, needing a fan stand.

To change the governor, there is an option to activate in the register and then it is set in the power management settings.

These laptop tries to be more heat efficient, but you lose a lot of FPS in game, the governor automatically switches to high perf when benchmark is detected. Kind of the same joke Volkswagen did with "dieselgate"

 

[ir_cow]

I'm guessing this game doesn't support multi thread, or is like 4 and poorly optimized.

 

[unclewebb]

Have you tried to change your system performance governor ??

I have a similar laptop

Does your similar laptop have an AMD Ryzen cpu? Can you post some more info about the performance governor. I have never heard of this before. His Intel CPU is running at full speed, 4000 MHz. That is as fast as a 9750H can possibly run during most games.

Many games are only programmed with a couple of main threads. They cannot take full advantage of a 6 or 8 core CPU.

Edit - The performance governor seems to be a Linux setting.

 

[Macro Device]

Most probably it's just your games are made by the laziest developers ever.

Download some game with good optimisation, e.g. Mirror's Edge: Catalyst, Doom, Shadow of The Tomb Raider, or whatever. Try as many games as humanly possible.

If every single game behaves like crap it's probably your Windows requires a fix.

 

[Deleted member 232685]

Does your similar laptop have an AMD Ryzen cpu? Can you post some more info about the performance governor. I have never heard of this before. His Intel CPU is running at full speed, 4000 MHz. That is as fast as a 9750H can possibly run during most games.

Mine is AMD powered, I've tested them on Intel Zephyrus that some people I know own, and there's still a significant gain.

Edit - The performance governor seems to be a Linux setting.

Most OS have one, even Android.

This is an example of the microsoft database.

Overview about power and performance tuning for the Windows Server

Overview about Processor Power Management (PPM) tuning for the Windows Server.

learn.microsoft.com

Attached is a screenshot of my Zeph with the governor setting visible. Sorry but my OS is in French.

 

[unclewebb]

with the governor setting visible

I know Windows has lots of settings so you can control the CPU. For setik, his CPU is already running at its maximum speed. The governor settings might be useful to run a CPU at less than its maximum speed but they are not going to help run a processor any faster than its maximum speed. That would be impossible.

 

[setik]

That's the problem. It is difficult to code a game so it can fully take advantage of all the cores and threads that modern CPUs have available.

The FIVR window shows that the 9750H does not support any overclocking.

View attachment 305106

Setting the turbo ratios higher than the default turbo ratios listed will be ignored by the CPU. You might as well set them to 45, 44, 43, 42, 41, 40 because any higher does not accomplish anything.

Setting the turbo time limit to 3+ million seconds also does not accomplish too much. 40+ days of turbo boost would be a lot but it does not actually work. The CPU ignores these kind of excessive turbo time requests too. The default 28 second turbo time limit is fine. I would clear the Sync MMIO box and I would check the MMIO Lock box instead.

You can set IccMax to the max, 255.75, for both the core and the cache.

The Task Manager graphs you posted do not show CPU usage. They show CPU Utilization. This is meaningless data when you have an Intel mobile CPU that uses a high percentage of turbo boost. Actual CPU usage is a lot lower than those graphs indicate. Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option. A log file is more useful than Task Manger graph data. You can attach a log file of some game action if you want me to have a look.


This benchmark puts very little load on a CPU. It is about as single threaded as a benchmark can be.

I've attached the log file for a Deep Rock Galactic (DRG) session.

Most probably it's just your games are made by the laziest developers ever.

Download some game with good optimisation, e.g. Mirror's Edge: Catalyst, Doom, Shadow of The Tomb Raider, or whatever. Try as many games as humanly possible.

If every single game behaves like crap it's probably your Windows requires a fix.

You are right, I loaded up DOOM and all threads seem to be used equally and much more, albeit still nowhere near 100%. I've attached the log file for that too out of interest.

Mine is AMD powered, I've tested them on Intel Zephyrus that some people I know own, and there's still a significant gain.



Most OS have one, even Android.

This is an example of the microsoft database.

Overview about power and performance tuning for the Windows Server

Overview about Processor Power Management (PPM) tuning for the Windows Server.

learn.microsoft.com

Attached is a screenshot of my Zeph with the governor setting visible. Sorry but my OS is in French.

I have minimum and maximum processor states at 100%.


Going forward, if I wanted to buy another laptop better suited for more single-threaded games like DRG, what should I look for? I see the ROG Strix G18 uses an i9-13980HX which has 24 cores and 32 threads, would they be made redundant?

 

[Deleted member 232685]

I know Windows has lots of settings so you can control the CPU. For setik, his CPU is already running at its maximum speed. The governor settings might be useful to run a CPU at less than its maximum speed but they are not going to help run a processor any faster than its maximum speed. That would be impossible.

Don't confuse a processor running at maximum speed with a processor running at maximum performance.
To reduce heat, while maintaining an acceptable response time, it is possible to run a processor at maximum speed, but not to launch a calculation at each cycle. This is what is done in car ECUs.

I've tried the different settings on my zephyrus. between (Efficient Aggressive) and (Aggressive) The maximum frequency doesn't change, but overall processor usage rises from bellow 60% to 80-90%.

So before making any assertions, it would be wise to test.

I have minimum and maximum processor states at 100%.

Yes, but it's not the setting I mentioned, compared to my screenshot, there's a line missing, the one that affects the governor, "mode d'amélioration des performances"
You need to activate this setting in the registers.

 

[unclewebb]

Don't confuse a processor running at maximum speed with a processor running at maximum performance.

I know it is possible to throttle a CPU so even though it is running at max speed, it may not be delivering max performance. I do not believe that this applies to setik and his 8750H. He can look into adding the governor setting to his Windows settings if he thinks it is possible to use this setting to boost performance.

I've attached the log file

DOOM definitely uses more CPU cores compared to DRG. In both games, your CPU is running at its full rated speed of 4000 MHz with zero throttling.

 

[Deleted member 232685]

I know it is possible to throttle a CPU so even though it is running at max speed, it may not be delivering max performance. I do not believe that this applies to setik and his 8750H. He can look into adding the governor setting to his Windows settings if he thinks it is possible to use this setting to boost performance.


DOOM definitely uses more CPU cores compared to DRG. In both games, your CPU is running at its full rated speed of 4000 MHz with zero throttling.

But CPU usage remains below 60% most of the time, which is precisely what I'm talking about with the (Efficient Aggressive) setting, and therefore a form of throttling.

You are right, I loaded up DOOM and all threads seem to be used equally and much more, albeit still nowhere near 100%. I've attached the log file for that too out of interest.

Average % stay low, you should be at least 20% more in Doom

After some research, the colleagues and I found the key and did a little testing. With laptops, it's double or nothing. Using Registry Editor, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\be337238-0d82-4146-a960-4f3749d470c7 and select Attributes. Modify the value of "Attributes" from 1 to 2. Data should read “0x00000002 (2)”. This should uncover the hidden power option.

 

[setik]

But CPU usage remains below 60% most of the time, which is precisely what I'm talking about with the (Efficient Aggressive) setting, and therefore a form of throttling.

Average % stay low, you should be at least 20% more in Doom

After some research, the colleagues and I found the key and did a little testing. With laptops, it's double or nothing. Using Registry Editor, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\be337238-0d82-4146-a960-4f3749d470c7 and select Attributes. Modify the value of "Attributes" from 1 to 2. Data should read “0x00000002 (2)”. This should uncover the hidden power option.

I revealed the power option, turns out it was already in Aggressive. I didn't see any difference trying Enabled instead. On a side note, I changed the power plan in Armoury Crate from Turbo to Manual, setting fans to 100%, and the fans sped up by about 1000 rpm, so good to know that Turbo doesn't seem to actually be optimal.

I might try disabling hyper-threading entirely, but otherwise in view of DOOM performing significantly more efficiently than DRG I'd chalk the issue up to game optimisation. To reiterate my question, which laptop CPUs should I look to buy in the future? One with fewer cores and higher single core performance? One that doesn't use hyper-threading at all?

 

[unclewebb]

which laptop CPUs should I look to buy in the future?

Many enthusiasts seem quite happy with the recent Lenovo Legion laptops that have 13900HX CPUs. These laptops have better than average cooling so you can get the most out of these powerful CPUs.

I would avoid laptops with H series CPUs. The H series have removed CPU voltage control so this useful feature is no longer available. The Legion with HX processors allow voltage control and CPU multiplier adjustment (overclocking). This lets you fine tune the CPU to the game you are playing. You can crank up the CPU speed if games are not well threaded.

 

[setik]

Holy smokes, big news. I disabled hyper-threading in the BIOS and my fps has increased by about 20-30% in DRG, Risk of Rain 2 and even DOOM, the supposedly multi-core optimised game. The cores’ usage percentages are definitely higher, with their clock rate is still fixed at 4000 MHz and power drawn remaining the same. I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m quite happy about it.

Cinebench multi-core testing has understandably taken a hit, getting a score of ~5300 instead of 7000+.

When I’m idling the clock rate now averages 4090 MHz and goes as high as 4490 MHz. I don’t know if this is because there is less overhead after disabling hyper-threading or what, but is it possible for me to get this 4.5 GHz in-game?

One more thing, I downloaded CPU-Z and see that my memory is in dual channel but Uncore Frequency is 3690 MHz, should I find a way to increase it by 300 MHz to match my CPU frequency? (my BIOS doesn’t have AI/Extreme tweaker)

 

[unclewebb]

I disabled hyper-threading in the BIOS and my fps has increased by about 20-30%

Good work doing some testing. I am not sure why more people do not do some testing like you have done.

The cores’ usage percentages are definitely higher

When you disable hyper-threading, your CPU has half as many logical processors. It makes sense that the usage data per core has gone up. You are spreading a task out over half as many workers.

clock rate is still fixed at 4000 MHz

Nothing has changed. The maximum multiplier is still 40 when playing games.

is it possible for me to get this 4.5 GHz in-game?

No, that is not possible. The 40 multiplier is a limitation of the 9750H CPU that you are using. The 9750H does not support any overclocking.

40 X 99.767 MHz = 3990.68 MHz

Uncore Frequency is 3690 MHz, should I find a way to increase it by 300 MHz to match my CPU frequency?

Good question. Many Intel CPUs are not very stable if you try to run the uncore at the same frequency as the core. The Ring Down Bin feature is what keeps the uncore 300 MHz less than the core at all times. If you want to play with this, try clearing the Ring Down Bin box in the ThrottleStop FIVR window. If you immediately lose stability, you will know why.

I have an older laptop with a 4th Gen processor that can run the core and uncore at the same frequency. By 9th Gen, I do not think this is possible. It never hurts to think outside the box and try something new.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Have you tried the command line tags on the icon/short cut?
I had an issue of the gane "Outward" barely using any cpu beloq 40% & either a single 2080 ti or both below 40% usage, even on 2160p/4k. untill I put the command line tag "no-singlethread"for it. Ecept that was a dx11 game. Not sure if would do the same thing on this game engine or dx12.