Matisse (Ryzen 3000) overclocking/undervolting

[Wavetrex]

(Please excuse me if this was posted already somewhere else and I missed it, If not, here we go

Findings on how to make Ryzen 3000 CPUs go faster, or cooler, or more power efficient.
Sure, the internet is full of reviews, but why not have our little corner.

--- My findings today on a R7 3700x ---

It's "boost" speeds (both single and multi thread) depend on... Voltage ?
- On "Auto" my mobo was setting 1.4 (ish) or something, it boosted to 4.2-4.25 multi core and 4.4 single thread... but the thing gets very hot (90+) degrees in multi-core tests.
- I gave it 1.1 volts manual in bios, the computer worked FINE. No crashes, nothing... but it was slower, barely cracking 3.9 multi core and a slow-ish 4.1 single thread
- I gave it 1.3 volts, the boosts increased more
... I stopped at 1.45 due to reaching thermal throttling even with all fans (case+cpu) turned to max. But it was boosting to 4.4 (advertised speed) A LOT (single thread), and sustained 4.3 Ghz on all cores !! (at least until the temperature took over)
(Using boxed cooler right now, no fancy AIO so I can try even more. But I'll probably need to buy one if I want that sweet 4.4 Ghz to happen)

Using PBO +OC ( +100 Mhz) I've seen it boost to 44.5, but ONLY on 1.45 volts. If I lower the voltage, it simply doesn't go there, doesn't matter what temp it has.

So...
First day of findings ... Automatic CPU clock depends directly on the Voltage given to it.

~~~
This is quite different from Intel, or even my previous 1700... which were simply crashing if it didn't have enough volts for stability.
I'm still puzzled on how these new things work...

What's your experience ?

Experiment - Over/Undervolting and running Cinebench R20

How low can it go before I'm unable to run CB ... or boot in windows ?
( Before anyone asks, the CPUz screenshots were taken WHILE CB WAS RUNNING... so that's the 16-threads operating voltage )

1.45v (THROTTLY THROTTLY)

CPUz:

Temp:

(going nuclear)

(Will try 1.425 just for science at the end)

1.4 v (let's get cookin')

CPUz:

Temp:

(smokin' !!)

1.375 (not getting any faster) ( ran out of attachments ... max 30)
CB: 4800 | CPUz Volts: 1.395 | Temp: 89 degr.

1.35v (BOOM baby ! Seems to be the sweet-spot - for my CPU at least)

CPUz Volts: 1.363 Temp: 86 degr. (toasty)

1.325v ( getting faster, but not that much faster)
CB: 4786 | CPUz Volts: 1.341 | Temp: 84 degr.

1.3 v ( now we're getting some speedz ! )

CPUz:

Temp:

(hottie)

1.287 v (found it ! This is the magic voltage where it starts to boost higher)
CB: 4252 | CPUz Volts: 1.297 | Temp: 76 degr.

1.275 v (nope, still slow...)
CB: 4046 | CPUz Volts: 1.286 | Temp: 74 degr.

1.25 ( hmm, not any better than the lower voltage )
CB: 3966 | CPUz Volts: 1.264 | Temp: 71 degr.

1.2 v ( beats me... seems that the CPU really doesn't like 1.1v-1.275 ... )

CPUz:

Temp:

(steamy)

1.1 v

CPUz:

Temp:

(warmish)

1.05 v (Yes, it's slower than 1.00 or 0.925) !! Ran it several times

CPUz:

Temp:

1.00 v

CPUz:

Temp:

0.975 v

CPUz:

Temp:

0.95 v

CPUz:

Temp - The same, doesn't drop more on my system. It's quite hot here in my room...

0.925 v

CPUz:

Temp:

(just chill)

0.9 v
(Cinebench crash as soon as I hit RUN, followed by Bluescreen)


So, it doesn't seem it got any slower until 0.925v, below that... Volts-> <- 3700x

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

If it really is that adaptable to voltage, you might get really low on a functional voltage, but you won't get much for clocks!

 

[Wavetrex]

Disclaimer: These are tests on my CPU /mobo and may or may not apply to anyone else. (R7 3700X is shoved into a cheap board - Asus Prime X370-Pro)
Also, it is Cinebench R20 only, I haven't checked for stability in other applications at any of the voltages.
Tests were done in a closed case (but with 5x 140mm fans, and boxed cooler AMD Wraith Prism RGB), in my attic where it's quite hot !

Conclusions for the wall of stuff above:

• Ryzen 7 3700X (and my guess the entire series) seems to overclock itself simply based on Core Voltage. By just changing the core voltage to different values, the CPU gets slower or faster
• The CPU worked without any crashes for the entire range, from 0.925 volts to 1.45 volts (where it was throttling). At no point it showed instability (in Cinebench R20 anyway)
• It appears to work as low as 0.925 volts, while being VERY cool (just a few degrees above minimum). Will redo power consumption tests at this insanely low voltage !
• No performance improvement all the way up to 1.275 volts (even regressions at around 1.1v-1.2v - tests were repeated)
• Going from 1.287 all the way to 1.35 seems to improve performance significantly - 4826 cb / 4092 cb is 18% )
• The CPU stopped getting faster at voltages higher than 1.35, but I will test at "near" that voltage later, to see if there's a "max sweetspot" on my system, and also test for stability in other applications around those voltages
• Max Temperature increased constantly with every voltage point, from as low as 56 to the throttling point: 95
• I'm quite convinced that with a much better and expensive cooler more performance can be extracted at around 1.375-1.4 volts, but these tests are done without spending any more $$$
• ASUS is f*cked up with their 1.4+ default "Auto" voltages, they seem to be NOT NEEDED for this CPU, and it can be made to run cooler and more efficient at lower (1.35 or so)

I hope my efforts here help you find your own voltage/performance sweet-spots.

Good luck and please share the findings !

---
One final test after finding that voltage sweet-spot:

@1.3625 volts (bios setting) - I think this is as high as it would go.
Will stick with this voltage and run other tests and play games to see if stable, and come back with any significant observation.

 

[Bruno_oc]

Overclocking depends greatly on temperature, so having an AIO or even a custom loop will increase the max clocks. I tried a 3700X that runs below 90C at 1.4v, on custom loop, and it's stable at 4350 on all cores. No throttling.
I also have a 3900X that runs 4450 @ 1.425v on all cores, but it goes slightly over 90C. Yet, no throttling, but it's rather high temp.

 

[Wavetrex]

Overclocking depends greatly on temperature

It -depends- indeed, but not "greatly". At most 200 Mhz all-cores can be gained by going really extreme with cooling very near ambient (most powerful custom loop etc.)

I think a decent 240mm AIO would be more than sufficient to bring 75% of that gain, so running the chip at 60 degrees instead of 85-90, for minimal cost. (There are plenty less than $100).
This would also help with the noise, because the boxed cooler isn't exactly silent, especially when it ramps up.

My next acquisition will probably be exactly that, a decent 240mm AIO, as only half a day after installing this 3700x the fan noise at full load is starting to bother me...

---
Anyway, I will redo testing around certain voltages which proved interesting in previous testing but with all the fans turned on and a room fan blowing air directly into the open case.
Get it as "cold" as possible with the equipment I have. It's doubtful it will have much of an impact, but there might be one nevertheless.

Edit:
"Hold my beer"

During an all-core workload...

I turned this on at maximum speed and....

.... this happened

Gained around 50 Mhz all-core boost by applying a little hurricane over the computer.
Will probably need to redo a lot of the testing, under different temperature conditions.

This generation is the "Pascal" (GTX 1000 series) of CPU's...

Around 10 minutes - clear increase in clockspeed (not by much, but it exists), for just 10 degrees less:

I just remembered I still have some Thermal Grizzly Cryonaut ... will attempt to repaste the box cooler with higher quality paste to see if it makes any difference.
But tomorrow, I'm after almost 16 hours of testing and tweaking the bloody CPU...
Maximum Geek

 

[HTC]

Edit:
"Hold my beer"

During an all-core workload...
View attachment 127202
I turned this on at maximum speed and....

Maximum Geek

Nice "high tech" solution

 

[DragonicDM]

Hey, I was hoping you could help me out because I dont know the first thing about CPUs.

I got a 3700X on Stock like you do but it runs upto 80°C on some games.

I am on an Asus x470-F mobo and am unsure what to do :/

 

[Wavetrex]

I got a 3700X on Stock like you do but it runs upto 80°C on some games.

I am on an Asus x470-F mobo and am unsure what to do :/

Absolutely nothing.
That's perfectly normal actually (my guess is that you use stock cooler).

If it were over 90 then maybe you should worry about wrong installation, but at 80 it's quite "chilly" in modern games (that might use the CPU at it's maximum potential)

But if you really want to do something, buy a powerful 280mm or 360mm AIO and that will drop temps by 10 degrees, maybe 15 if lucky.
Not sure if paying $150 and up makes sense though...

 

[DragonicDM]

Absolutely nothing.
That's perfectly normal actually (my guess is that you use stock cooler).

If it were over 90 then maybe you should worry about wrong installation, but at 80 it's quite "chilly" in modern games (that might use the CPU at it's maximum potential)

But if you really want to do something, buy a powerful 280mm or 360mm AIO and that will drop temps by 10 degrees, maybe 15 if lucky.
Not sure if paying $150 and up makes sense though...

My ASUS mobo doesn't allow fans to be quiet when cpu is more than 75 - it revvs them up and down during spikes :/

Was wondering if I should undervolt a bit? Just so it gets under 75 hopefully.

 

[Wavetrex]

You could indeed.
Or tweak the curve in their software "AI Suite 3", or in bios itself (there should be a fan customization menu)

But as I showed in this topic, undervolting will result in some loss of performance (and possibly stability). You might need to test at various voltage points (2-3 tiny steps each jump).
It seems the CPU is very "touchy" when it comes to voltage... only 0.01n more can mean 5% faster !

 

[Bones]

I have to disagree to a point - While it may seem normal to see temps reaching 80c I don't really believe 80c is an acceptable norm/standard.
I'd get something better than stock cooling for sure to use.

While the CPU may be able to tolerate these temps this doesn't mean it's liking them or that it's even good for it.... Because it's not. Any reduction in operating temps is a good thing but it also has to be feasable as in the amount of temp drop vs the investment to get it.

I do disagree that undervolting drops performance - If it does for some reason you've dropped voltage too far period. Speaking of such I've done some runs with my 3600X and quite happy with it, the runs done on a stock aircooler.

Bones`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 8min 4sec 389ms with a Ryzen 5 3600X

The Ryzen 5 3600X @ 4448MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate benchmark. Bonesranks #318 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Bones`s 31182 points score: Geekbench3 - Multi Core with BenchMate with aRyzen 5 3600X

The Ryzen 5 3600X @ 4323MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench3 - Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. Bonesranks #27 worldwide and #6 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

There is no reason I can see for a CPU to be hitting 80c and higher as a norm - 70c+ is probrably realistic in the case of a Ryzen but certainly not 80c. Look at the thermometer icon in the entries above and it tells you the max temp seen during these runs, the benchmate results window itself shows both, min and max temps seen.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I have to disagree to a point - While it may seem normal to see temps reaching 80c I don't really believe 80c is an acceptable norm/standard.
I'd get something better than stock cooling for sure to use.

While the CPU may be able to tolerate these temps this doesn't mean it's liking them or that it's even good for it.... Because it's not. Any reduction in operating temps is a good thing but it also has to be feasable as in the amount of temp drop vs the investment to get it.

I do disagree that undervolting drops performance - If it does for some reason you've dropped voltage too far period. Speaking of such I've done some runs with my 3600X and quite happy with it, the runs done on a stock aircooler.

Bones`s SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate score: 8min 4sec 389ms with a Ryzen 5 3600X

The Ryzen 5 3600X @ 4448MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M with BenchMate benchmark. Bonesranks #318 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Bones`s 31182 points score: Geekbench3 - Multi Core with BenchMate with aRyzen 5 3600X

The Ryzen 5 3600X @ 4323MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench3 - Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. Bonesranks #27 worldwide and #6 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

There is no reason I can see for a CPU to be hitting 80c and higher as a norm - 70c+ is probrably realistic in the case of a Ryzen but certainly not 80c. Look at the thermometer icon in the entries above and it tells you the max temp seen during these runs, the benchmate results window itself shows both, min and max temps seen.

Well modern processors from AMD are not like CPU from even two years ago so old rules apply less.
Heat is now king since gpu type boost has arrived on Amd CPUs , the 2000 series is the same on balanced ryzen profile or high performance it will try and retain the highest stable core speed , now per core too.
When loaded with something to do that means the CPU Will always reach for the highest clocks , Tdp and sustained thermal output it can and will always heat up as its designed to do.

Your right in general about the heat though , no electronics like too much but I think Amd have a good handle on what too much Is.

Go mental on cooling and it doesn't change the boost mode thermal output, just upps the all core clock attainable.

 

[jesdals]

My next acquisition will probably be exactly that, a decent 240mm AIO, as only half a day after installing this 3700x the fan noise at full load is starting to bother me...

---
Anyway, I will redo testing around certain voltages which proved interesting in previous testing but with all the fans turned on and a room fan blowing air directly into the open case.
Get it as "cold" as possible with the equipment I have. It's doubtful it will have much of an impact, but there might be one nevertheless.

Edit:
"Hold my beer"

During an all-core workload...
View attachment 127202
I turned this on at maximum speed and....

.... this happened



Maximum Geek

Well your not the only one going loud, due to my R7 gpu I took a bounch of old hardware and reused them for my build.

I mounted a dust filter in the front

But it gives me around 66c max under load. Have decided not to undervolt now because of decent result and the Gamers Nexus test of cooling on the same board as mine. Conclusion in their test - cooling = CPU performance up to the boost clock at 0c degrees. I have ordered some corsair 3600mhz cl 18 modulets and Will perhaps try undervolting when they have been optimized

My overall power consumption under full load in Deivision 2 with directx 12 is max 410 watt so the heat should be manageble. I have reduced the fan speed to about 50% on the exhausting and in take fans. There is 2 sidedor 80mm fans and a back sidedor with access to the motherboard backplate with a 80mm intake as well

 

[HD64G]

Hey, I was hoping you could help me out because I dont know the first thing about CPUs.

I got a 3700X on Stock like you do but it runs upto 80°C on some games.

I am on an Asus x470-F mobo and am unsure what to do :/

Turn on the A/C. Me thinks that you have a warm environment that ups the temps to the cpu.

 

[DragonicDM]

Turn on the A/C. Me thinks that you have a warm environment that ups the temps to the cpu.

Ok I'll try that thanks

 

[Vayra86]

I'm surprised how remarkably similar the voltages and performance gains are compared to Intel's latest Lakes.

Basically if you have to push beyond 1.35-36V, you might as well not, diminishing returns versus excessive heat stops you pretty soon, and up to 1.3V is a very manageable OC that also extracts the largest amount of added performance.

 

[Bones]

Well modern processors from AMD are not like CPU from even two years ago so old rules apply less.
Heat is now king since gpu type boost has arrived on Amd CPUs , the 2000 series is the same on balanced ryzen profile or high performance it will try and retain the highest stable core speed , now per core too.
When loaded with something to do that means the CPU Will always reach for the highest clocks , Tdp and sustained thermal output it can and will always heat up as its designed to do.

Your right in general about the heat though , no electronics like too much but I think Amd have a good handle on what too much Is.

Go mental on cooling and it doesn't change the boost mode thermal output, just upps the all core clock attainable.

Oh yeah, I agree they are different than before and higher temps than what we used to see are the norm, that's why I said 70c+ was probrably realistic. Used to be anything at or above 60c was bad news but no longer the case here, however there are still limits and doesn't make sense to simply "Let it go".

 

[Vario]

Well your not the only one going loud, due to my R7 gpu I took a bounch of old hardware and reused them for my build.
View attachment 127280
I mounted a dust filter in the front
View attachment 127281
But it gives me around 66c max under load. Have decided not to undervolt now because of decent result and the Gamers Nexus test of cooling on the same board as mine. Conclusion in their test - cooling = CPU performance up to the boost clock at 0c degrees. I have ordered some corsair 3600mhz cl 18 modulets and Will perhaps try undervolting when they have been optimized

My overall power consumption under full load in Deivision 2 with directx 12 is max 410 watt so the heat should be manageble. I have reduced the fan speed to about 50% on the exhausting and in take fans. There is 2 sidedor 80mm fans and a back sidedor with access to the motherboard backplate with a 80mm intake as well

There is a lot to improve on your setup.
I've owned a few chenming cases. They have a certain classic appeal that is undeniable, however the tiny 80mm fans are a joke.

1) Lose that white fleecy fan filter and you will run cooler. That fan filter looks more likely to add dust than to remove it. I don't know how any air in meaningful volume can pass through it, it looks very restrictive. If you have the machine off the floor, you don't really even need a filter, especially if you keep a clean house (vacuum floors), hardwood or tile floor minimal carpeting, and no pet. Furthermore, if you left that front door shut, barely any air gets through those tiny slits so there's no point in filtering that air and further restricting your intake.

2) Your clear CPU heatsink fan dumps straight into the deadzone of the tiny exhaust fan on the case. You are better off removing the case exhaust fan and having your clear CPU fan just blow out the hole or move the clear fan to the front of the heatsink and retain the rear exhaust. Or just ditch the clear fan.

If it were me, I'd just remove the lower 80mm fan from the exhaust and also remove that louvered PCI slot cover from below it too. The other easy option is to just remove the clear fan and keep the two 80mm exhausts. Running that many fans close together just creates turbulence rather than airflow.

2) taming some of the wiring so it doesn't sit in the path of any fans.

3) the push pin cpu heatsink fan stuck to the top of your noctua heatsink doesn't really add any value.

4) similarly theres another one of those in front of your noctua heatsink. All that does it block airflow and create turbulence, it isn't helping you anyway.

More fans doesn't make a better setup, especially when half of them serve no purpose.

 

[Metroid]

Few things to consider, ambient temperature, usually 5 to 20c higher idle which depends the cooler you are using, in your case, it must be summer where you live. It looks like stock cooler is not up for the task, in my head using all 16 threads 100% continuously, cpu temperature should stay at 60c or lower, in your case is 50% higher than what supposed to be 90c. So we come to the point why amd has bundled this cooler? Users would be better off paying less for it and buying an aftermarket cooler like noctua d15 air or any 280mm aio cooler. A bundled cooler that will throttle cpu performance is not good at all, in the end, the performance you lose is not cost benefit. 3700x cooler should have been bundled for the 3600.

I came to this conclusion last week, if you buy a 3700x, you will in the end have to buy a better cooler, buying the 3700x and not using it fully is not something i would do.

It would have been amazing if amd partnered with noctua, a double tripple, quadro air cooler hehe, or corsair or any other aio manufacturer.

 

[heky]

Guys, do remember that max safe 24/7 voltage for zen 2 is 1.325v. With voltages some of you use (1.4v and up) you will degrade your chip quite fast. I have seen people degrading chips in just a few days.

 

[Vario]

Guys, do remember that max safe 24/7 voltage for zen 2 is 1.325v. With voltages some of you use (1.4v and up) you will degrade your chip quite fast. I have seen people degrading chips in just a few days.

From what I have read, 1.4 is the voltage that Ryzen 2 seems to settle at out of the box for most people.

 

[Metroid]

Guys, do remember that max safe 24/7 voltage for zen 2 is 1.325v. With voltages some of you use (1.4v and up) you will degrade your chip quite fast. I have seen people degrading chips in just a few days.

I would not overclock it at all, I would leave at stock and at stock as it hits 4.4ghz, it will use 1.4v or more, depends on the silicon, overclocking ryzen is a pointless effort, ryzen as it is, with so many features and control, is already factory overclocked hehe

Buying ryzen for overclocking? I think you need to see many reviews before you buy it.

Only intel k cpus are worthy to be overclocked it, you gain some considerable performance. AMD ryzen 3xxx? no hehe

 

[Bones]

That's going by the default voltage set by AMD which is more than it needs to run at default speeds.
I've been running my 3600X using 1.25v's set manually and it's been doing just fine, the chip I'm posting with right now (2700X) is only using 1.23v's and has no issues - Been running it that way since day one.
Zen 2 should be more efficient than even than the 2xxx series chips so it's not a stretch to believe the new chips coudn't do the same by comparison. If an issue does appear, all you'd have to do is raise it up, even back to stock if you want.

 

[Vario]

Absolutely nothing.
That's perfectly normal actually (my guess is that you use stock cooler).

If it were over 90 then maybe you should worry about wrong installation, but at 80 it's quite "chilly" in modern games (that might use the CPU at it's maximum potential)

But if you really want to do something, buy a powerful 280mm or 360mm AIO and that will drop temps by 10 degrees, maybe 15 if lucky.
Not sure if paying $150 and up makes sense though...

Jesdals above has an aftermarket heatsink and gets a relatively chilly 66*C with one of the most restrictive cases ever designed. I would ditch that AMD stock HSF as fast as possible for something more capable if I were you.

 

[Metroid]

The truth is, to be worth overclocking in ryzen you need to hit that famous silicon lottery, that means, you will need to hit the precision boost clock with less than 1.35v. For the 3700x is 4.4ghz, can your chip do it? if yes, do it, if not, leave it at default, my point is, setting 1.25 for 4.2ghz or even 1.35 for 4.3ghz will not give you more performance efficiency than default clocks. Remember you need to hit that precision boost clock to be worth.

I'm still deciding if i will buy these ryzen cpus but if i do, first thing i will do is check how much voltage i will need to hit that precision boost clock, if 3700x, then, if i need more than 1.4v for 4.4ghz then i will leave at default clocks. To be worth, need to hit that precision boost clock 1.35v or less. 24/7 and remember, fixed clock.