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MSI 6340 recap

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#1
Some five years ago my friend Peter give my this MSI 6340 micro ATX mobo with the Duron 750 CPU. It allegedly worked, but very, very unstable. However I got intersed, because I see mainboard back from 2001 for Socket 462 processors - Duron, Athlon - that got interestingly designed Vcore regulator and mainly a polymer Fujitsu caps. The yellow ones are polymers - regardless that they have the top perforations like elektrolyte caps:



Also as they say - everything small is nice. And this board is really small, almost like just fit tomy hand:



The fact that the mainboard is unstable is understandable. It is only enough to look, what caps are on it - many bad caps like these Chhsi ones:



And these terrible caps are combined with polymers, witch is trully interesting combination, witch in the end probably allow the board to survive all the time working. At least sort of...



Near Vcore output coil, witch get pretty how when the caps in Vcore are bad, the Chhsi cap is leaking now:



...but it looks like these two good polymers hold him pretty well, so the computer somehow worked.



Except quality polymers there are on the mainboard also good caps - Chemicon KZE - as input filter caps, witch sure worked well. Even I did not trust Chemicons much, the bad batches of them are only the KZG, KZJ, TMV and TMZ series, not the KZE. And on top of that, they are nicely green:



However all that is not going to stop the instability of chipset, witch power voltage is "filtered" Chhsi terrible cap...



But all it all this looks like a decent Vcore design (for 2001):



560uF 4V Fujitsu polymers and 2700uF 6.3V Chhsi terrible caps is almone relatively qualite Vcore filtering, unless they start to break down, of course:



For rams and USB ports voltage filtering are used these bad caps Tayeh:



Of course the big problem is, when you push to big and heated coil a capacitor. This cap is really having a troubles, when the whole cascade is start to overhat:



However as you can see, bad caps are bulging even when they are long away from all typically overheating componets, like coils and mosfets:



MSI 6340 v1
--------------
2x 4700uF 6.3V d12.5 (Chemi-con KZE) -> 2x 4700uF 6.3V Panny FM d12.5 - P12347-ND
4x 2700uF 6.3V d10 (Chhsi) -> 4x 3300uF 6.3V Samxon GC d10
2x 820uF 4V d10 (Fujitsu) -> 2x 2700uF 2.5V Samxon ULR d10
2x 560uF 4V d8 (Fujitsu) -> 3x 1000uF 4V Samxon ULR d8
6x 1000uF 6.3V d8 (Chhsi) -> 6x 1000uF 6.3V Samxon GC d8
3x 330uF 6.3V d6.3 (Tayeh) -> 3x 470uF 6.3V Samxon GD d6.3
2x 47uF 16V d5 SMD -> 2x 47uF 16V Panny FK SMD d5 (16V) - PCE3397CT-ND
4x 10uF 16V d4 SMD -> 4x 10uF 16V Panny X5R SMD ceramic (4V) - PCC216CT-ND

(one polymer I added near the CPU, because it was removed and these 47 and 10uF SMD little caps I did not yet replaced, as I did not have anything to replace them with ATM)
 
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#2
So years ago I already gather for this recap the caps, witch give me Big Pope - at lest these Samxon caps. Adding the 1000uF 4V cap increased the total Vcore output capacity to 18 300mF in 8 caps! (for example the famous Socket 462 mobo DFI Lanparty B have Vcore output wth only 4 caps and 13 200mF total capacity - and no polymers!)



Whole look at the Vcore part of the mainboard after recap:



Look at the bottom caps from Vcore and for the AGP powering:



Much smaller todays polymers (560uF was - 1000uF is) for the same voltage is really just small "bits" compared to these 3300uF Samxon GC caps near them:



On the other hand, a 2700uF Samxon URL polymers are quite big pieces of caps:



And at the end, whole look at the MSI 6340 mainboard - little mobo:




Fun fact - after powering the mobo for the first time it show up, that for whole five years the real time clock is running. And on top of that, it even show good time - only +30min, witch is for 5 years w/o usage and with desoldered caps something amazing, I did not expect that :) And mobo is working quite well after the recap, even that the new CPU-Z version does not detect FSB, witch is weird. But the CPU-Z autor is already asked for some info to fix this, so there is a hope that this get fixed:
http://valid.canardpc.com/vblm4v
FSB 0 is not looking really truthfully :D
Also is worth noting, that the mobo has a pretty detailed setup in the bios (especially considering that this is VIA KT133 chipset and SDRAMs) and even overclock possibilities, where one can choose from Default setting (100MHz) to 112MHz FSB (37MHz for PCI). However the result from this last settings (with so quality caps I did not expected and problem so I tried this right away) is, that CPU is working at 256MHz when using this setting :D (30x7.5) Well, there is a good deal of fun with this little MSI mobo... :)
 
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#3
The underclocking bug shown up:

http://valid.canardpc.com/evdcpe

New CPU-Z beta does finally show the FSB:

(but the mobo does not know AXP cpu at all)

However at least HWbot use my picture for the MSI 6340 mobo:

http://hwbot.org/hardware/motherboard/ms-6340/
...yet I desoldered the parallel and serial ports, so I have to paste them there from another photo... and also MSI 6340 was not produced with Samxon URL polymer caps. That are, in fact, produced about 8 years after the mainboard... :)
 

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#4
what do you consider the best type of cap for solid/polymer and electrolyte? and what tools are you using? do you use a reflow station? If hand work what iron are you using? Great work as always you have alot of skill.
 
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#5
great work, but why dont you recap newer stuff since it may work well but their era is gone now
 

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#6

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#7
and what tools are you using? do you use a reflow station? If hand work what iron are you using? Great work as always you have alot of skill.
I'm wondering about this too. The ports on the back are crazy clean, and I could really do with some equipment. My old Weller pen can't do that sort of thing really. :(

And I'm still saying it's a waste of good caps, but maybe that's just me. :D
 

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#8
you're a total cap guru!
 

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#9
And I'm still saying it's a waste of good caps, but maybe that's just me. :D
Could still make a decent enough NAS with a few small upgrades - namely a PCI Sata controller card, bandwidth could be limited though, but they used to run GPUs off PCI so im sure theres enough throughput for a decent amount of performance.

On the other hand it seems unethical and a bit pointless as the AXP isnt as power efficient or powerful as todays cheapest budget CPUs.



If you have the parts available at very little extra cost then i dont see why not make use of it.
 
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#10
Could still make a decent enough NAS with a few small upgrades - namely a PCI Sata controller card, bandwidth could be limited though, but they used to run GPUs off PCI so im sure theres enough throughput for a decent amount of performance.

On the other hand it seems unethical and a bit pointless as the AXP isnt as power efficient or powerful as todays cheapest budget CPUs.



If you have the parts available at very little extra cost then i dont see why not make use of it.
well you cant outrun a nostalg33k logic. and also its a good practice indeed.:D
 

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#11
Could still make a decent enough NAS with a few small upgrades - namely a PCI Sata controller card, bandwidth could be limited though, but they used to run GPUs off PCI so im sure theres enough throughput for a decent amount of performance.

On the other hand it seems unethical and a bit pointless as the AXP isnt as power efficient or powerful as todays cheapest budget CPUs.



If you have the parts available at very little extra cost then i dont see why not make use of it.
Good caps. Good caps. Recap is fine, but using high quality caps for it seems a waste. :D

Also, joke.
 
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#12
Solaris17 -
what do you consider the best type of cap for solid/polymer and electrolyte?
That is a very hard question, since it depends on for what it is used. I did not consider, I go for the specs, so unless the specs are lying, then best cap is a cap, what can provide highest ripple current - and that it is this one:
Nichicon LE 1500uF 2.5V d10x13 and 7300mA ripple current:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PLE0E152MDO1/493-3061-ND/1662447

These Nichicon LE are best for Vcore and d8 size - 820uF 2.5V d8x9 and 6300mA ripple current:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=493-3058-ND

...and Samxon URL 470uF 16V caps for the input filtering, etc.
Because Nichicon SMD CV series suxx in ripple:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PCV1C471MCL2GS/493-4529-1-ND/2786826
3900mA, blah...

So it is hard to say. Each application need/require different approach. For example voltage regulator in X-Fi card require very very weak caps, or it does not function properly (or not all all from certain ripple currents)...

and what tools are you using? do you use a reflow station? If hand work what iron are you using?
Lot's of questions, so I done a little how-to-do quide there:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2997149
Hope you like it and thanks for your supporting words!


micropage7 -
great work, but why dont you recap newer stuff since it may work well but their era is gone now
Thank you. True, this is outdated crap :laugh: But I got the caps for it and it was fun to see, if this mobo can still work. Besides, I like the VRM design, even it is noisy when it is notloaded (hi-pitched noise) ... Will be interesting if I can overclock it somehow. It can underclock really well, tough :nutkick:

Newer stuff - yes, I would like to, but now have anything on hand. But if you can provide something newer AND the much need caps, then I can do it.
Sourcing the caps from digikey took me months thru friend (to slash postage cost and kill customs problems), so that is my major limitation in recapping right now. Lost contact in Hong Kong that provided Samxon caps, sadly :(
Damn China. People are disappear there :banghead: :mad:


FreedomEclipse -
Practise makes perfect.
Not only that. I was just wondering about the Vcore regulator they used. And if I can manage to get more decent/recent AXP to work there, because that way I can easily steal all the HWbot records for the mobo:
http://hwbot.org/hardware/motherboard/ms-6340/
...except the FSB. Damn Christian must have another bios, because for me, even a 102MHz is more like semistable that stable, not to mention the slow-down using Athlon XP (at 1100MHz) compared to just Athlon 900MHz.


de.das.dude -
you're a total cap guru!
Thanks! Good luck with your GTX, mate!


Frick - The ports on the back are crazy clean, and I could really do with some equipment.

Nop, just my hands and my soldering iron. That was all used on the ports...


FreedomEclipse -
Could still make a decent enough NAS with a few small upgrades - namely a PCI Sata controller card...
And a NIC card, because the board lack any network :) But yes, it can.

On the other hand it seems unethical and a bit pointless as the AXP isnt as power efficient or powerful as todays cheapest budget CPUs.
True. It is a slow chunker, but it is fun to find out the limits of the mobo... :)

If you have the parts available at very little extra cost then i dont see why not make use of it.
Well, the caps are provided for free by Joe Lo, aka Big Pope, to test their new Samxon polymers... back in 2008 or 2009, lol.


GreiverBlade -
well you cant outrun a nostalg33k logic. and also its a good practice indeed
It seems that I can outrun anyone who posted some scores on HWbot, except the FSB thing... Looks like I need a AXP CPU with higher multiplier, like 2800, 3000 or 3200+ ... 100MHz FSB is slow :)))


Frick -
Good caps. Good caps. Recap is fine, but using high quality caps for it seems a waste. :D Also, joke.
You are right, it is a bit of waste... but it will be also waste to throw this mobo to garbage bin. It still can show some working potencial, so... I decided to save it.
 
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Solaris17

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#13
handwork jesus i dont even
 
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#14
Yes, all it is hand work. Nothing fancy used. The yellow transformer soldering iron is probably way older that you. I bought it when I started soldering...
Well, it seems to be easy to do for me. No idea why people think that this could be hard :) But that is perhaps because I started soldering when I was 7 years old (with this exact soldering iron I using now) and now I'm 38 - it might have to do something with it :D

Never mind. Grab your first device and try what happens... but first prepare your tools. I would suggest doing it my way, but dunno if you can grab a adequately well performing soldering iron. If your got more that 75W, then I suggest deliberatelly weaking it by adding a iron (known to be poor conductor) extensions, not the cooper ones as I did.
Help you AMAZINGLY not to overheat the soldering wire at the end... also the scews I use in the extension are iron ones, to introduce some resistance.

Good luck.
 
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