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No X570 ITX boards here...wat do

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So, eyeing my upgrade this summer (voltage hungry 4790K locked to 3.5GHz so as not to burn down the computer, ailing H97N BIOS and ailing ALC892, no M.2 on H97N and coming to need more space than the 850 EVO (already forced to be external), MX300 and 3D Blue can provide), I got a 1TB SX8200, a 32GB LPX 3200 C16 kit, and the 3700X to get going. Having a BIOS that can't remember my settings anymore, weird audio with no alternative being on ITX, and having to turn off HT because Intel can't make a product worth a damn, AMD's been on my mind for a long time. All I'm waiting on is the $9 NM-AM4 kit for the D9L, and a board.

Well, the board is proving to be a little more difficult than expected.

I bit the bullet on the other parts at a time when PCPP indicated that the X570-I Aorus was becoming readily available, and the X570 Phantom Gaming TB3 was beginning to join the party. Optimistic that ASRock's availability would soon be rolling, and Asus would also open up shop here with its Strix, I was eager to start.

As of now, the TB3 has been taken off the database for some reason, and is out of stock on Newegg.ca. The Strix is nowhere to be found. The Aorus is out of stock on Newegg, and 2 in stock @ $299 locally.

Do I...?

1) Buy the X570-I Aorus. I know that Newegg reviews are, well, Newegg reviews, but there seems to be a lot of negative feedback regarding the BIOS on that board. I haven't followed up on Ryzen 3000 since briefly hearing about the MSI BIOS being too small, or something. Is this a deal-breaker?

2) Buy an X470 board. Things are not any better. The only readily available X470 ITX board here is the Strix, at a whopping $259. $40 less for a lot of things missing, although the lack of a chipset fan is a slight plus. I can't tell right now if this is a worthwhile compromise.

3) Return the 3700X, and buy a 9700K and Z390. I have 15 days to return the 3700X.

4) Return the 3700X, and buy a 3600X and a B450 instead. I have 15 days to return the 3700X. I don't like having to do the blind flash USB thing, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

5) Wait in hopes that somehow more X570 and B550 (lmao) boards make it to the Canadian market, despite X470 having told a different story.

Thoughts? I really want to use the 3700X, something about a great single-threaded and multi-threaded upgrade, and something about going from one of the least efficient x86 CPUs to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. But, well, there's a reason the other choices are up there.
 
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You don't need a X570 ITX board to run 3rd gen, even a A320 ITX will do fine, just choose the board that has the feature set you need, a decent VRM, and a decent price
 

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The B450-i ITX from asus is the same as the x470 with only the M.2 RGB heatsink removed

Its what i run in my VR system and quite like it
Looks good, runs cold, loooooots of BIOS options (even tho for me its a basic OC and leave it alone system) and its pretty AF... i love the analog audio jacks literally being lit up with R G and B LED's, gives a cool glow behind the system
 
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I would definitely keep the 3700X and go for B450 board.
There is not much to differentiate X470 from B450, even more so on an ITX board.

Given the feedback so far, I could not stand the chipset fan. Other than PCI-e 4.0, X570 provides little in way of advantages, again - especially for an ITX board - for a considerably higher price.

Recently bought the Strix B450-I intended for 3600X (for <150€). ASUS has not figured out their BIOS things yet. Latest BIOS for that board at the moment is from July 18th. Other than that and stupid idiotic choices with second M.2 slot (use two M.2 NVMe drives - only with Ryzen 3000 - get PCI-e x8 in the PCI-e x16 slot), an awesome board. Ended up dropping 3600X onto my old GA-AB350N-Gaming WIFI that worked just as well and even better given it has BIOS from July 31st.
 
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Honestly buy the Gigabyte board. Reviews say it´ s solid. Real reviews not Newegg or Amazon reviews.

Or like the others said a ITX B350/450 that ticks all your boxes
 
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You don't need a X570 ITX board to run 3rd gen, even a A320 ITX will do fine, just choose the board that has the feature set you need, a decent VRM, and a decent price
Ryzen 3000 doesn't officially support A320 chipset. It might work, but bios support will be horrible and VRM... well I wouldn't put a R5 2600 in it let alone 3700X. Not to mention RAM compatibility.


+1 for the Gigabyte's ITX board.
 
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Last I heard Wendell from Level1Techs praised Gigabyte for their UEFI on the new X570 boards.
 
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I'm really digging the new gigabyte bios on the X570 Aorus Master I would be shocked if it wasn't the same on the itx board.
 
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Don't worry about the chipset. Just pick a board that has the features you need and make sure the CPU support list includes the 3700X.
 
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Honestly buy the Gigabyte board. Reviews say it´ s solid. Real reviews not Newegg or Amazon reviews.

Or like the others said a ITX B350/450 that ticks all your boxes
Beware of Gigabyte boards especially if you are thinking of OC. On my X399 Aorus the CPU voltage is 1.4 at stock. Out of all the systems I have built Gigabyte has the highest failure rate. If you want a rock solid board on Ryzen buy Asus or As Rock. Apparently MSI is having problems with 3rd gen Ryzen chips.
 
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x570 isn't x399, and x570 gigabyte boards havent had any such issues. That crown goes to asus for x570 from what i've seen
 
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Beware of Gigabyte boards especially if you are thinking of OC. On my X399 Aorus the CPU voltage is 1.4 at stock. Out of all the systems I have built Gigabyte has the highest failure rate. If you want a rock solid board on Ryzen buy Asus or As Rock. Apparently MSI is having problems with 3rd gen Ryzen chips.
Nothing wrong with Gigabyte X570 boards and overclocking. I've reviewed 3 so far (Aorus Pro Wi-Fi, Elite, and the ITX board) and they all overclock just fine with a 3700X (to 4.25 GHz).

The high idle voltage problem plagued ALL AIBs, IIRC. That said, the latest AGESA from AMD (and BIOSs from AIBs) addresses this issue.

As far as Gigabyte having the highest failure rate... maybe for you personally, but overall GIgabyte BIOS are literally no different than the rest. In fact, one or two boards didn' show any failures from Puget Sound. Now I get that isn't a complete failure rate of all boards, but that is, by far, the largest data set we have with hundreds of boards being sold...

That article should be eye opening for you to see how low failure rates really are on hardware components. ;)

x570 isn't x399, and x570 gigabyte boards havent had any such issues.
Agreed with this part. I only reviewed one board from them (TUF X570-Plus Wi-Fi @ $200) and it was solid as well. Not sure about the rest of the lineup yet.
 
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x570 isn't x399, and x570 gigabyte boards havent had any such issues. That crown goes to asus for x570 from what i've seen
I thought AMD released a AGESA update to fix exactly those issues on X570.

Nothing wrong with Gigabyte X570 boards and overclocking. I've reviewed 3 so far (Aorus Pro Wi-Fi, Elite, and the ITX board) and they all overclock just fine with a 3700X (to 4.25 GHz).

The high idle voltage problem plagued ALL AIBs, IIRC.

That said, the latest AGESA from AMD (and BIOSs from AIBs) addresses this issue.

As far as Gigabyte having the highest failure rate... maybe for you personally, but overall GIgabyte BIOS are literally no different than the rest.

Agreed with this part. I only reviewed one board from them (TUF X570-Plus Wi-Fi @ $200) and it was solid as well. Not sure about the rest of the lineup yet.
I understand what everyone is saying. I don't have an X570 GIgabyte board so I believe what you are saying. I have had this with 890, 970, 990 and 470 boards so I am just going on my past experience.
 
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AGESA update didnt do that exactly. To my understanding at least, It made the AMD power plan/Agesa/CPU combo less responsive to software that likes to overdo it with cpu polling, mostly apps that monitor hardware so that they don't boost as often and as much immediately. Had to do with AMD's 1ms Ze2 windows driver. Which is why non amd power plan didn't have that behavior. Motherboards that have issues with overvoltage should still have that issue unless individually fixed by each board partners bios implementation.

Don't keep up much with every board and manufacturer I must admit since deciding on the aorus master, I just know from reading the amd sub that some boards improved a bit, some other's havent with overvoltage. All do better with idle because the "problem" was basically the CPU being over-responsive. Basically it was a lot of social media moaning that led to this "Fix"
 
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AGESA update didnt do that exactly. To my understanding at least, It made the AMD power plan/Agesa/CPU combo less responsive to software that likes to overdo it with cpu polling, mostly apps that monitor hardware so that they don't boost as often and as much immediately. Had to do with AMD's 1ms Ze2 windows driver. Which is why non amd power plan didn't have that behavior. Motherboards that have issues with overvoltage should still have that issue unless individually fixed by each board partners bios implementation.

Don't keep up much with every board and manufacturer I must admit since deciding on the aorus master, I just know from reading the amd sub that some boards improved a bit, some other's havent with overvoltage. All do better with idle because the "problem" was basically the CPU being over-responsive. Basically it was a lot of social media moaning that led to this "Fix"
Are you saying that social media is actually sort of useful for something?
The "Fix" as you put it, makes sense though and there are still things AMD have to figure out why it's not working as they've promoted it, mainly their underwhelming turbo boost.
 
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Are you saying that social media is actually sort of useful for something?
The "Fix" as you put it, makes sense though and there are still things AMD have to figure out why it's not working as they've promoted it, mainly their underwhelming turbo boost.
Still i'd rather they gave us the option there, choose between 1ms, and 3-4 or whatever it got turned into now.
And yeah I'm saying it was starting to grow as a story on social media and they had to step in before it grew too big and hurt their product's marketing and sales.
At least that to me looks to be the most realistic and logical conclusion. It's not that big of an issue no tinfoil presence necessary, but still i'd like to at least have the option to choose especially when said response "feature" on 3000 was a big part of their product marketing before launch.
 
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Thanks for the replies, friends. I've been out of it and only just back in it because I need this upgrade, so I'll take all the info I can get.

I decided to get the B450I Aorus instead. Quite honestly, it's not the most impressive or lauded board, but I happened to build on one last month for a friend, so I know my way around it and its BIOS. When I pick it up, I'll have them check the BIOS version and update if necessary, for a small fee. Overall, $159 is not bad. Still takes the 2x16 LPX kit I have, and PCIe doesn't make a difference for the 1070 and SX8200 I have. Audio setup is identical, unshielded ALC1220, good enough.

The X570I Aorus did look really good. No need for updates, a really nice full cover backplate, strong Infineon 6+2 which is an improvement over the B450I's infineon 4+2, which uses respectable IR parts all around but seems to get hot on power draw. But I just get the feeling that it's not $300 good. If it was ASRock's Phantom Gaming with TB3 and the LGA115x mounting holes (a very welcome surprise), it would have been a bit of an easier decision.

I don't regard Gigabyte as being the second coming of Jesus. But from my Haswell and DC experience with their H81, B85 and H97 boards (and as of a month ago the B450, firsthand), I am familiar with them. I don't push my CPUs hard (since my badly binned 4790K would have set fire to the neighbourhood, and Ryzen 3000 doesn't clock very well anyway), and I don't use their bloatware - just expect the basic, generally minimalistic product and experience. As for Asus, their B450 ITX offering at $209 was a little blingy and expensive for what it really is, and I don't like the whole "let's throw voltage at it and hope it runs better" philosophy at Asus. I built something with the Z270I Strix not too long ago - don't have anything against their aesthetic or BIOS design.

Am I missing something or is the BIOS not really new for X570 Gigabyte? It seems to be visually and functionally similar to the 400 chipset BIOS. Maybe a few extra 3000-specific options here and there.

Still waiting on my NM-AM4 kit, and it'll be a few days until we see how the B450I likes the F42a/1.0.0.3ABB BIOS it's been given recently. If it falls through, I'll just get another board, probably the X570.
 
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The B450-i ITX from asus is the same as the x470 with only the M.2 RGB heatsink removed

Its what i run in my VR system and quite like it
Are you running a 3rd gen chip in it? I'm stuck between b450-itx and the one x570 board I can find locally for $50 more. I was going with the ASRock Fatal1ty but reviews are saying the BIOS update for 3rd gen breaks it badly.
 

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Are you running a 3rd gen chip in it? I'm stuck between b450-itx and the one x570 board I can find locally for $50 more. I was going with the ASRock Fatal1ty but reviews are saying the BIOS update for 3rd gen breaks it badly.
1st gen, but with the latest updates so *shrug*
 
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Are you running a 3rd gen chip in it? I'm stuck between b450-itx and the one x570 board I can find locally for $50 more. I was going with the ASRock Fatal1ty but reviews are saying the BIOS update for 3rd gen breaks it badly.
For $50, personally, it would be a no brainer to go for the X570. The $150 price difference in my case gives me pause, but people don't seem to have good things to say about the current state of Asus updating their BIOS on 400 series chipsets for Ryzen 3000.

People don't like Gigabyte's UEFI BIOSes either, but I'm guessing that's leaning towards the lack of features, utility or convenience in the actual design of the BIOS itself, as opposed to whether GB is on top of updating their BIOS. We shall see this week if the B450I Aorus likes its new 1.0.0.3AAB BIOS. The annoying thing is that while Q-Flash exists on this board, there allegedly seems to be a barrier somewhere in the BIOS versions where those BIOSes released later than a certain date can only be successfully flashed in the presence of a certain version of the AMD chipset drivers, which would seemingly nullify the point of Q-Flash and require an interim CPU like a 220G to first install the requisite drivers if the board happens to be saddled with an early BIOS, released prior to said barrier. We'll see soon enough.
 
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Cooling NZXT Respire T40 || OEM
Memory 16GB 1866Mhz DDR3 || 8GB DDR4
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1070 FTW || GTX 1050
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Display(s) ASUS VS228 1080p || Dell InfinityEdge 4k
Case NZXT Source 210 White || OEM
Power Supply Corsair CXm 750w || OEM
Mouse Corsair SABRE RGB || Logitech 720 Triathlon
Keyboard Steelseries APEX RGB || OEM
Well the ASRock board was $120, the ASUS is $150, and the x570 is actually $220, so $70 more. The ASRock has reviews saying there are storage and memory issues for latest CPUs, the ASUS has the best track record I can find but needs a CPU to update, and then the MSI boards I can find with CPU-less flash also have spotty records if it's actually possible or not.

I'll be looking forwards to updates from y'all. If I can get answers from my local store before the parts get in I'll let you guys know too.
 

Mussels

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Well the ASRock board was $120, the ASUS is $150, and the x570 is actually $220, so $70 more. The ASRock has reviews saying there are storage and memory issues for latest CPUs, the ASUS has the best track record I can find but needs a CPU to update, and then the MSI boards I can find with CPU-less flash also have spotty records if it's actually possible or not.

I'll be looking forwards to updates from y'all. If I can get answers from my local store before the parts get in I'll let you guys know too.
my preferred supplier has a $10 BIOS update option, see if thats available?
Otherwise, check which boards have the USB flasher that doesnt need a CPU?
 

eidairaman1

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Well the ASRock board was $120, the ASUS is $150, and the x570 is actually $220, so $70 more. The ASRock has reviews saying there are storage and memory issues for latest CPUs, the ASUS has the best track record I can find but needs a CPU to update, and then the MSI boards I can find with CPU-less flash also have spotty records if it's actually possible or not.

I'll be looking forwards to updates from y'all. If I can get answers from my local store before the parts get in I'll let you guys know too.
You can get most stores to do the BIOS update for you, for anywhere from $10-50 (well, our dollar is worth less, so). Given that these 300/400 boards supporting 3000 seems to be a bit of a gong show with some requiring a CPU for the update and others not allowing updating past a certain point without requisite chipset drivers installed first, having someone else take the risk and knowing right there and then in the store if it's going to work with your 3700X is worth the small fee.

It seems that both of us are making the 3000 upgrade with an EVGA 1070, so I'm interested in seeing how it goes for you on whichever board you choose.

Is this our own buildzoid? Damn, I've missed a lot in two years. He makes great VRM videos.

As for the VRM subject, I see it this way:
- I'm using a 3700X, AMD's poster child for efficiency at this moment
- I'm not torturing any of these ITX boards with a 3900X's or 3950X's 12 or 16 cores of hell
- I'm able to use it at full stock speeds and maybe a little bit of XFR if it feels like it, unlike my intentionally handicapped 4790K
- Even at stock speeds, it's one hell of an improvement over DC, for the above reason
- It doesn't seem that these 7nms like to even reach their rated boost speeds, let alone OC, so I'm not pushing the 3700X
- Most of these ITX VRMs' weaknesses lie in their SoC side, which can be atrocious 1-phase (Asus) or not even cooled (MSI)
- APUs rely heavily on SoC side VRM, but I'm not using an APU

The ASRock X570 has a nicely setup VRM (random transistor obstruction of socket-RAM traces notwithstanding). The Gigabyte X570 has a (in theory) fantastic VRM all around. But being $220 USD MSRP, that accounts for the $299 CAD MSRP, and honestly, it's not a VRM that I'll even come close to utilizing in any significance. Yes, Infineon's TDAs are incredibly nice, but for a stock 3700X? Frankly, they're a little too nice for the rest of the board.

The Gigabyte B450 has the more mundane 50A IR3556s instead, and only half the phases. It got a rather bad rap on PCPP on account of the reviewer who tested it thoroughly with an APU and found that it just wasn't powerful and efficient enough to handle the combined CPU/GPU load. Later, that same reviewer purportedly commented on Reddit affirming that the B450I's 4+2 IR3556s are plenty for a R5 2600.

The MSI B450's 6+2 with IR3555s are stronger all around, albeit with zero cooling on the +2. The Asus B450 has 6 CPU phases with weaker MOSFETs, and a stronger IR3555 on the SoC side but literally only 1 for +1 phase.

That's not to mention the ASRock B450 board, that has a dogshit VRM setup, and all the cheaper mATX boards that make do with similarly questionable power delivery. I think the question of BIOS updates is a much more pertinent one.
 
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