• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

NVIDIA Ends Controversial GeForce Partner Program (GPP)

Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.04/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
In my country (Greece) i don't think that the legal system tends to prosecute someone without having some sort of a filed-lawsuit/claim against him.
(*At least i can't recall such a thing , but i might be mistaken, since , as i said , i'm not a lawyer.)
Still, my question was if : ""any of the directly-involved parties (*AIBs, Dell, HP ) , or indirectly involved parties(*AMD who started all this, ) , filed a claim against nVidia/GPP "". I'm most curious.
I haven't heard that any have, but as I said in this post I don't believe any of them would until they're reasonably sure of winning, which they won't be until a potential criminal case has progressed quite far. I'd expect those suits in 4-5 years, in other words.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
2,233 (0.45/day)
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Miami
Processor Ryzen 3800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling Ek Velocity/ 2x 280mm Radiators/ Alphacool fullcover
Memory F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC
Video Card(s) XFX 6900 XT Speedster 0
Storage 1TB WD M.2 SSD/ 2TB WD SN750/ 4TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) DELL AW3420DW / HP ZR24w
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Gold 1000W+750W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar/Glorious Model O-
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum
Software Windows 10 Pro
What i've underlined from your quote is exactly what i'd call : "speculation".
Can you prove that claim? Has any AIB stated something like that ? IF the AIBs feel that they were being forced to do anything they can speak for themselves (*through their lawyers of course). Has any directly-involved side of GPP (*AIBs) stated anything ? As far as i know, the answer is No. So what you claimed (*forcing an AIB) can be considered as speculation.
-----------------------
[
At the basic highschool-economic teachings there is an economic term called : "Opportunity Cost"
"Opportunity Cost" is the tools/means that i have to sacrifice in order to produce something/get something in return (*products, services, whatever you can think of, "opportunity cost" is a term that can apply on every field of our life)
This GPProgram was also based on "opportunity cost": The AIBs want the money and privilages that nVidia can provide them, but in order to get this , -the opportunity cost for this deal- , nVidia wanted them to make changes at their brand names (*just like you, i'm also speculating here:D, based on what Kyle has claimed at his article) . They had to sacrifice something in order to get something else, pure definition of "opportunity cost".
Now, ... whether this deal is legal or illegal, that's an entirely different matter, and that's not my job (*or yours , or Kyle's or whomever..... ) to judge that. It's only Court's job. ]

Unfortunately there's a precedent to this. Did you guys forget or just not notice, what happened to xfx and many other AiBs around 2010? They've done this GPP thing before, and what's happening now is just Nvidia making a second pass at the AiBs that it couldn't touch or didn't dare to mess with then.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,013 (0.67/day)
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
System Name Windows 10 64-bit Core i7 6700
Processor Intel Core i7 6700
Motherboard Asus Z170M-PLUS
Cooling Corsair AIO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Kingston DDR4 2666
Video Card(s) Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB, Seagate Baracuda 1 TB
Display(s) Dell P2414H
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX v2 650W
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard CM Storm Quickfire Pro, Cherry MX Reds
Software MS Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
my question was if : ""any of the directly-involved parties (*AIBs, Dell, HP ) , or indirectly involved parties(*AMD who started all this, ) , filed a claim against nVidia/GPP "". I'm most curious.
Risking a partnership with major market player due to lawsuit ... no aib partner would do that

Tangentially, I see some posts calling for boycott and some posts expecting/calling for fanboys to defend shady corporate tactics ... is it so hard to learn how to separate comapny's product (gpu arch/silicon/software) and inter-corporate dirty-fighting techniques ... there are mechanisms to punish/fine anti-competitive behavior that should be exercised here and certainly not by reduction of our choice.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
Unfortunately there's a precedent to this. Did you guys forget or just not notice, what happened to xfx and many other AiBs around 2010? They've done this GPP thing before, and what's happening now is just Nvidia making a second pass at the AiBs that it couldn't touch or didn't dare to mess with then.
As a given so far we have this: NO AIB has made an official statement of any kind, against nVidia , so for me it is very much likely that these kind of deals apply all the time under the table.
After all, as i said at #81 ( https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...artner-program-gpp.243921/page-4#post-3838330 )
GamersNexus last video implied that likely one of the reasons that some of the big-laptop "industry-gamers" have denied GPP, was that they might already had similar deals with other ones (Intel), and this was causing them a conflict of interest. I can't find his comment unreasonable at all.

Risking a partnership with major market player due to lawsuit ... no aib partner would do that
Tangentially, I see some posts calling for boycott and some posts expecting/calling for fanboys to defend shady corporate tactics ... is it so hard to learn how to separate comapny's product (gpu arch/silicon/software) and inter-corporate dirty-fighting techniques ... there are mechanisms to punish/fine anti-competitive behavior that should be exercised here and certainly not by reduction of our choice.
That's what i find the most laughable part of this hole GPP story , since i keep thinking of it and i can't stop laughing:laugh: , so i have to tell it !! :
What has happened with this GPP case? :
NONE
of the major multinational-billion-dollar companies (*AIBs, AMD, DELL, HP... ) "dared" to move against the "dreadful" nVidia except from ....Kyle Bennet !!!:roll:
Kyle doesn't seem to be afraid of this "evil empire" and their "dirty tactics" now does he ?:roll::laugh::roll: So what's the conclusion in all this? :
If Kyle can do it, then ...maaayyybeee ....the multi-billion-multi-national companies can do it as well !!!:roll::laugh::roll: !! They don't have to be "afraid" of the consequences that much!! (*Unless of course .... "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" !! :rolleyes: )
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,013 (0.67/day)
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
System Name Windows 10 64-bit Core i7 6700
Processor Intel Core i7 6700
Motherboard Asus Z170M-PLUS
Cooling Corsair AIO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Kingston DDR4 2666
Video Card(s) Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB, Seagate Baracuda 1 TB
Display(s) Dell P2414H
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX v2 650W
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard CM Storm Quickfire Pro, Cherry MX Reds
Software MS Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
They don't have to be "afraid" of the consequences that much!!
What's fear got to do with it? Their business depends on the partnership.
... you may call this fear of poverty if you like
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
What's fear got to do with it? Their business depends on the partnership.
... you may call this fear of poverty allright
how many times on this forum have been mentioned that the AIBs won't move against nVidia out of fear that they will lose their privileges? (*even you mentioned : "inter-corporate dirty-fighting techniques " at your previous post)
On the opposite side, Kyle wasn't afraid this hole retaliation, although some rumours say that [H] will lose much of the benefits it used to have untill now and its ties with the AIBs, and i even heard that [H] might close !!
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,953 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
As a given so far we have this: NO AIB has made an official statement of any kind, against nVidia , so for me it is very much likely that these kind of deals apply all the time under the table.
After all, as i said at #81 ( https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...artner-program-gpp.243921/page-4#post-3838330 )
GamersNexus last video implied that likely one of the reasons that some of the big-laptop "industry-gamers" have denied GPP, was that they might already had similar deals with other ones (Intel), and this was causing them a conflict of interest. I can't find his comment unreasonable at all.


That's what i find the most laughable part of this hole GPP story , since i keep thinking of it and i can't stop laughing:laugh: , so i have to tell it !! :
What has happened with this GPP case? :
NONE
of the major multinational-billion-dollar companies (*AIBs, AMD, DELL, HP... ) "dared" to move against the "dreadful" nVidia except from ....Kyle Bennet !!!:roll:
Kyle doesn't seem to be afraid of this "evil empire" and their "dirty tactics" now does he ?:roll::laugh::roll: So what's the conclusion in all this? :
If Kyle can do it, then ...maaayyybeee ....the multi-billion-multi-national companies can do it as well !!!:roll::laugh::roll: !! They don't have to be "afraid" of the consequences that much!! (*Unless of course .... "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" !! :rolleyes: )

What... Dell and HP are some of the players that didn't listen to this bullshit and told Nvidia to f* off. Your or GamerNexus's 'implications really don't matter in that regard. I mean really, this blind belief in some Youtube reviewers never ceases to amaze me. Half of what they say is either half or fully wrong and the other half is at least questionable. Don't mistake someone who's good at delivering a message to actually speak the truth. They might, and they might also not. There is no reason to question Dell or HPs statements any more than GNs.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=HP+n...rome..69i57.2847j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
What... Dell and HP are some of the players that didn't listen to this bullshit and told Nvidia to f* off.

Yes i know, but the interesting is why, that's why i referred to the explanation that was given by GamersNexus.
it was implied that one of the reasons that some of the big-laptop "industry-gamers" have denied GPP, was that they might already had similar deals with other ones (Intel), and this was causing a conflict of interest. ( give a look at16:00m of GN's last video)
EDIT: You misunderstood my intents..... first of all he wasn't 100% certain,he has just gave a possible explanation. Secondly,... the only reason i'm accepting a lot of youtuber's "word" is ONLY because most people seem to have no problem to accept Kyle's word !! So, Kyle's word is fine but Steve's is wrong? no, doesn't go that way, at least in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,953 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
Yes i know, but the interesting is why, that's why i reffered to the explanation that was given by GamersNexus.
it was implied that one of the reasons that some of the big-laptop "industry-gamers" have denied GPP, was that they might already had similar deals with other ones (Intel), and this was causing a conflict of interest. ( give a look at16:00m of GN's last video)

Mighta coulda woulda, who cares what GN's stance on some random statement is? Its just feeding into stuff no one can prove and this really does set Kyle and a selection of other tech reviewers apart from the rest. He actually had substance, GN has nothing except a desperate need for subs and a fear of Nvidia he almost can't hide - the only reason his video exists as it does is because he is weighing the pros and cons... its hypocrisy at its finest and it shows he cares first and foremost about the number of likes and his own popularity. A real journalist or investigator would go out and collect evidence. But yeah, its more important to NOT lose the window of opportunity before this GPP shitstorm dies again. So quick lets toss some random blubber out.

Kyle actually had something he could not let go off and actually took a huge risk because he felt the truth was more important than his website, and because he also felt that a line was crossed. Thát is taking a stance, not what GN is doing.

As to your edit above, I think my ninja edits already explain it nicely why one person is credible and the other, for all I care, can go die in a hole. All GN does is feed on another one's headline, carefully avoiding any risk to its own operation.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,013 (0.67/day)
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
System Name Windows 10 64-bit Core i7 6700
Processor Intel Core i7 6700
Motherboard Asus Z170M-PLUS
Cooling Corsair AIO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Kingston DDR4 2666
Video Card(s) Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB, Seagate Baracuda 1 TB
Display(s) Dell P2414H
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX v2 650W
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard CM Storm Quickfire Pro, Cherry MX Reds
Software MS Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
how many times on this forum have been mentioned that the AIBs won't move against nVidia out of fear that they will lose their privileges? (*even you mentioned : "inter-corporate dirty-fighting techniques " at your previous post)
Dirty fighting is used for your competition, carrot and a stick for your partners ... you speak of 'moving against' as if you misunderstand partnership AIBs have with both AMD and nvidia. Yes, there are privileges at stake, and Asus demonstrated they wanted to keep theirs by jumping into resurrecting ares line, while others waited for an effect of a backlash, rightfully I might add, but after all maybe, just maybe, we can call that little wait a 'move against nvidia' :)
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
Dirty fighting is used for your competition, carrot and a stick for your partners ... you speak of 'moving against' as if you misunderstand partnership AIBs have with both AMD and nvidia. Yes, there are privileges at stake, and Asus demonstrated they wanted to keep theirs by jumping into resurrecting ares line, while others waited for an effect of a backlash, rightfully I might add, but after all maybe, just maybe, we can call that little wait a 'move against nvidia' :)

Guys, i only tried to make a joke to "lighten" the mood. As i said, Isn't it hilarious that from all these multi-billion-multinational companies, the only one that stood against GPP was Kyle Bennett??
Personally, whenever i think of it i can't stop laughing !!!;):laugh:
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,013 (0.67/day)
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
System Name Windows 10 64-bit Core i7 6700
Processor Intel Core i7 6700
Motherboard Asus Z170M-PLUS
Cooling Corsair AIO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Kingston DDR4 2666
Video Card(s) Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB, Seagate Baracuda 1 TB
Display(s) Dell P2414H
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX v2 650W
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard CM Storm Quickfire Pro, Cherry MX Reds
Software MS Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
286 (0.06/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Prime X570 Pro
Cooling Deepcool LS-720
Memory 32 GB (4x 8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Radeon RX 6800 XT Gaming OC
Storage Samsung PM9A1 (980 Pro OEM) + 960 Evo NVMe SSD + 830 SATA SSD + Toshiba & WD HDD's
Display(s) Samsung C32HG70
Case Lian Li O11D Evo
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster Zx
Power Supply Seasonic 750W Focus+ Platinum
Mouse Logitech G703 Lightspeed
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex Pro
Software Windows 11 Pro
Oh dear non-existing deity, this John Steeple guy is gold.
Best hits of his résumé
- Senior Manager of Global Service Provider Marketing at Intel between 2001 and 2006, which is the period when Intel got caught bribing OEMs and retailers to not sell AMD processors;
- Director of Americas Channel Marketing at Seagate between 2007 and 2012, the later being when Seagate was suspected of practicing price fixing
- Director of Partner Marketing during GPP
(thanks to Tottentraz at B3D)
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.04/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
how many times on this forum have been mentioned that the AIBs won't move against nVidia out of fear that they will lose their privileges? (*even you mentioned : "inter-corporate dirty-fighting techniques " at your previous post)
On the opposite side, Kyle wasn't afraid this hole retaliation, although some rumours say that [H] will lose much of the benefits it used to have untill now and its ties with the AIBs, and i even heard that [H] might close !!
What you're describing here isn't comparable forms of bravery or lack of it. What you're describing is the difference in principles guiding a journalist with a modicum of journalistic integrity and the board of massive for-profit companies. A hint: one has a vested interest in revealing the truth and laying the groundwork for a fair and just society, while one is interested in making as much money as possible.

Of course Kyle is afraid. But he's one person, and will likely be okay even if HardOCP goes bust and he'll have to find another job. For all we know he already has more than one source of income. And while losing the site you've invested heaps of time and work into is devastating, many journalists would be willing to risk that to unearth a wrongdoing of a big enough scale. That's journalistic integrity. It's about principles. And principles can be - and often are - stronger than "rational" worries.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
What you're describing here isn't comparable forms of bravery or lack of it. What you're describing is the difference in principles guiding a journalist with a modicum of journalistic integrity and the board of massive for-profit companies. A hint: one has a vested interest in revealing the truth and laying the groundwork for a fair and just society, while one is interested in making as much money as possible.

Of course Kyle is afraid. But he's one person, and will likely be okay even if HardOCP goes bust and he'll have to find another job. For all we know he already has more than one source of income. And while losing the site you've invested heaps of time and work into is devastating, many journalists would be willing to risk that to unearth a wrongdoing of a big enough scale. That's journalistic integrity. It's about principles. And principles can be - and often are - stronger than "rational" worries.

I hope you are correct about Kyle;) (*even though this will also mean that i've been mistaken:D).
As for myself, as i have already said in a previous post, i have personal reasons to have doubts.

--The first and most obvious (for the other people) reason, is that i was given a warning by Kyle, simply because i was asking questions and didn't simply take his word !!
After my "warning" i sat down and i counted my posts at his thread and compared it with the number of posts of other [H] forum members, and i can assure you that several other [H] members have overpassed by far the number of my own posts, but they never received a personal warning. Only myself and Razor1 received a personal warning (*curiously , we were also the basic ones who were expressing arguments/questions that were favourable towards nVidia) .
So you can make your own conclusions. My conclusions was that Kyle didn't want to have "opposition" to what he was saying and he used an excuse to give me a warning.
Apparently he wanted me to simply take his word, BUT as a character i don't do that!! The only reason i've done it with other tech-journalists , is because i'm seeing people accepting Kyle's word, so i'm responding with the same way in order to show you that this is not a valid argument !!
And indeed, i already saw several members which have already reacted when they see me take the word of some other tech-journalists so yeah...... point proven i believe;) !!
--The second one is more important reason, about why i'm having doubts to simply take Kyle's word. Let's just say that i don't like the "self-proclaimed" titles. If Kyle happens to read this, i'm sure he'll understand what i'm talking about. ;)
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,953 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
Guys, i only tried to make a joke to "lighten" the mood. As i said, Isn't it hilarious that from all these multi-billion-multinational companies, the only one that stood against GPP was Kyle Bennett??
Personally, whenever i think of it i can't stop laughing !!!;):laugh:

Honestly you're overthinking this way too much. Take a step back. Your last post here is a good example, I'm starting to understand why you got that warning over at [H]
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
Honestly you're overthinking this way too much. Take a step back. Your last post here is a good example, I'm starting to understand why you got that warning over at [H]

That's fine, but before you judge me, perhaps first you should read my posts at [H] and then tell me if i deserved a warning.
Especially my last 2 comments before i get the warning ,was just a reply towards 2 people who said something to me. I don't know about you, but when someone says something to me, i tend to respond and not ignoring them .
If you think that this is a logical behaviour on Kyle's behalf , then fine.
EDIT: P.S. And of course, i have to clarify, that after the warning, my behaviour changed a lot, since i was offended!! Especially, when at several issues i had spoken to Kyle privately through pm, in order to avoid bring him in a difficult position. But apparently, he didn't consider it as a good faith from my behalf:(
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,953 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
That's fine, but before you judge me, perhaps first you should read my posts at [H] and then tell me if i deserved a warning.
Especially my last 2 comments before i get the warning ,was just a reply towards 2 people who said something to me. I don't know about you, but when someone says something to me, i tend to respond and not ignoring them .
If you think that this is a logical behaviour on Kyle's behalf , then fine.
EDIT: P.S. And of course, i have to clarify, that after the warning, my behaviour changed a lot, since i was offended!! Especially, when at several issues i had spoken to Kyle privately through pm, in order to avoid bring him in a difficult position. But apparently, he didn't consider it as a good faith from my behalf:(

I honestly do understand how that one post that I did read on [H] where you ALSO link worthless Youtube gutter trash creates the same nasty taste as it does in this thread on TPU.

What you are doing is remarkably close to trolling and dragging things off topic, but you've convinced yourself you are seeking a truth nobody cares about because simple enough, this is about GPP and not the machinations of your thoughts, echoing questionable youtube videos.

Its really simple: this is bad taste and you should stop.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
259 (0.07/day)
Location
Emperor's retreat/Naboo Moenia
System Name Order66
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism (BOX-cooler)
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 3200MHz Red
Video Card(s) GeForce RTX 3060Ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 510 1TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE228HR
Case Thermaltake Versa C21 RGB
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Software Windows10 64bit
I honestly do understand how that one post that I did read on [H] where you ALSO link worthless Youtube gutter trash creates the same nasty taste as it does in this thread on TPU.
What you are doing is remarkably close to trolling and dragging things off topic, but you've convinced yourself you are seeking a truth nobody cares about because simple enough, this is about GPP and not the machinations of your thoughts, echoing questionable youtube videos.
Its really simple: this is bad taste and you should stop.

That was AFTER i got the warning. Again, have you read any of my posts BEFORE i get the warning?
I just told you that receiving a warning has offended me and this affected the way i posted afterwards!!
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
13,210 (3.80/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5
Motherboard MSI E3 KRAIT Gaming v5
Cooling Tt tower + 120mm Tt fan
Memory G.Skill 16GB 3600 C18
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 970 Mini
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
So you got a warning, suck it up princess, we all get them from time to time, no need to make it personal.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
12,062 (2.75/day)
Location
Gypsyland, UK
System Name HP Omen 17
Processor i7 7700HQ
Memory 16GB 2400Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1060
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB + HGST 1TB
Display(s) 1080p IPS G-SYNC 75Hz
Audio Device(s) Bang & Olufsen
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD+
Software Win 10 Pro
This thread is about GPP, not moderation. Steer back on course please.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.04/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Honestly you're overthinking this way too much. Take a step back. Your last post here is a good example, I'm starting to understand why you got that warning over at [H]
While I haven't read anything over at [H] (I avoid their forums like the plague, what I've seen there is among the most toxic, hellish "discussion" I've seen in tech), I agree that there seems to be a bit of overzealous "critical thinking" going on here.

Let's take this step by step:

Critical thinking is good.

The tech world is far too dominated by tribalism and brand loyalty, and tech journalists are too often journalists only in name, due to being utterly beholden to OEMs to get review samples. "TechTubers" are particularly egregious here. Still, some journalists have actual integrity.

Corporations are not our friends; they're out to make money and beyond public perception and how that might affect business they generally don't give a damn about users. Still, some corporations from time to time turn out not to be complete a******s.

Occam's razor is a great logical tool in the vast majority of cases.

So, the main questions are then:
1) Is Kyle believable, or is he out to gain a reputation?
2) Is Nvidia believable, or are they trying to hide malfeasance/criminality?
3) What other commentary is worth listening to, and why? What other perspectives are relevant?

For me, it goes something like this:
1) Yes, he is believable, as he stands to lose far more (both personally and professionally) than he stands to gain. Also, if this was somehow a hatchet job with no basis in truth, wouldn't it be amazingly easy for Nvidia to supply some of these less scrupulous "journalists" with proof to the contrary? Yes, it would, yet this has not appeared. Instead, Nvidia has clammed up and gone into "blame everyone else"-mode. This makes them look guilty, and Kyle look like he's onto something. Also, Occam's razor tells us that it's far more logical to assume that giant corporations are (still) corrupt than to assume that Kyle is somehow doing this to profit personally. There would be far too many "?????"s before "Profit" in that business plan. As for the use of off-the-record statements from unnamed sources, my stance on that is explained in detail in a previous post.

2) Nvidia has gone out of their way to not give out information. Shouting "transparency" is, believe it or not, not the same as being transparent. Nvidia has produced absolutely nothing of substance to counter Kyle's claims. And if they could, they would, as that would counteract damage to their brand and potentially boost sales (or at least make them lose fewer sales). Nvidia is clearly in damage control mode, so the fact that they aren't doing the most obvious form of damage control (presenting something to the tune of "Kyle was wrong, here's some proof") is itself telling.

3) This is rather tricky. Even entertainment-first "influencers" like LTT and Jay's 2 Cents have approached this case in a rather serious manner. That doesn't make them the most believable sources, though. The main issue here is that their main industry "contacts" are PR reps, and the "information" they get access to is carefully curated PR. Steve of Gamers' Nexus is, for me, in a league above these. By no means a perfectly serious journalists, but he's the only 'tuber I know of who is genuinely critical of pretty much every product reviewed, and has a well reflected and seemingly informed view of how the industry works. I would never suspect him of being a shill (well, outside of stupid "sponsored content" videos, which are essentially YT's version of "advertorials" - I can't remember if GN does these, but I would assume so). GN's "GPP info dump" video was, at least according to the video, based on off-the-record conversations with both new and established industry contacts. I don't see any major reason to not believe that - essentially, just like with Kyle's original report. In fact, the off-the-record insinuation that HP and Dell's main reason for refusing the GPP was that they already had similar deals with Intel is a very, very, very substantial claim, and I sincerely hope that someone is able to follow this up further. If investigation into the GPP leads to an antitrust case against Intel, that would be ... poetic justice? Kind of hilarious, at least.

The silence from serious sites like AnandTech (which has contact very deep within most major tech companies, and is often given access where others aren't, at least on the engineering side) is for me another indication that there's something here. If Nvidia had a way of disproving this, they would instruct any and every relevant person to lay this out clearly and concisely so that it'd get wall-to-wall coverage. This hasn't happened. Which means that either Nvidia and AIB partners aren't talking, that they're talking but strictly off-the-record and not enough to make a case (perhaps beyond saying "We think Kyle might be right", which serious news sites wouldn't really post), or that they're being given bland non-answers like the "GGP is dead" blog post by Nvidia. This would make anything they post either opinion or speculation, which sites like this rarely post.

Tl;dr: Critical thinking is good, but needs to be checked by reason. The GPP was, at best, borderline anti-competitive and a rather BS approach to "fixing" a nonexistent "problem". At worst, it was a clear attempt at unfairly disadvantaging competitors by pressuring common partners to disadvantage the competition. Which is true? We likely won't know anything of substance until official investigations play out, but logic and the available evidence (and lack of evidence to the contrary) seems to tip the scales towards the latter.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,013 (0.67/day)
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
System Name Windows 10 64-bit Core i7 6700
Processor Intel Core i7 6700
Motherboard Asus Z170M-PLUS
Cooling Corsair AIO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Kingston DDR4 2666
Video Card(s) Gigabyte NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB, Seagate Baracuda 1 TB
Display(s) Dell P2414H
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX v2 650W
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard CM Storm Quickfire Pro, Cherry MX Reds
Software MS Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Oh dear non-existing deity, this John Steeple guy is gold.
This dude has emotional disparity between the eyes and the smile ... I wouldn't trust him even if I didn't know who he is :laugh:
The GPP was, at best, borderline anti-competitive and a rather BS approach to "fixing" a nonexistent "problem". At worst, it was a clear attempt at unfairly disadvantaging competitors by pressuring common partners to disadvantage the competition. Which is true?
You are most generous with your 'at best', and most resonable with your 'at worst'
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
2,233 (0.45/day)
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Miami
Processor Ryzen 3800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling Ek Velocity/ 2x 280mm Radiators/ Alphacool fullcover
Memory F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC
Video Card(s) XFX 6900 XT Speedster 0
Storage 1TB WD M.2 SSD/ 2TB WD SN750/ 4TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) DELL AW3420DW / HP ZR24w
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Gold 1000W+750W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar/Glorious Model O-
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum
Software Windows 10 Pro
In fact, the off-the-record insinuation that HP and Dell's main reason for refusing the GPP was that they already had similar deals with Intel is a very, very, very substantial claim, and I sincerely hope that someone is able to follow this up further. If investigation into the GPP leads to an antitrust case against Intel, that would be ... poetic justice? Kind of hilarious, at least.

I really hope this is what plays I remember a couple years back shopping for a laptop to replace a poorly aging Intel laptop I forget what shitty chip it had in there but it came equally equipped shitty hd graphics. So the two main points of contention for my next laptop one to stay as far from HD graphics as possible not putting myself through that again if I didn't have to and second have a touchscreen as I frequently am jotting down notes and felt that a having a touch screen would reduce clutter and make things easier when organizing them later. So while searching for ideal laptop I noticed pecularity, I couldn't find a competitive AMD laptop with a touchscreen. When the AMD model was comparible it lacked a touchscreen, when it did it was the kitchen sink configuration with an accompanying price tag the priced it out of competition with touchscreen Intel models because the upgrades didn't justify the added cost. It didn't make sense to me at the time but now but fast forward to today and this little nugget falls out for everyone to see. Explosions are going off in my head.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.04/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
I really hope this is what plays I remember a couple years back shopping for a laptop to replace a poorly aging Intel laptop I forget what shitty chip it had in there but it came equally equipped shitty hd graphics. So the two main points of contention for my next laptop one to stay as far from HD graphics as possible not putting myself through that again if I didn't have to and second have a touchscreen as I frequently am jotting down notes and felt that a having a touch screen would reduce clutter and make things easier when organizing them later. So while searching for ideal laptop I noticed pecularity, I couldn't find a competitive AMD laptop with a touchscreen. When the AMD model was comparible it lacked a touchscreen, when it did it was the kitchen sink configuration with an accompanying price tag the priced it out of competition with touchscreen Intel models because the upgrades didn't justify the added cost. It didn't make sense to me at the time but now but fast forward to today and this little nugget falls out for everyone to see. Explosions are going off in my head.
Well, the lack of decent AMD laptops is a complicated issue.

Yes, we're going OT here, but I'll keep it to one post. Promise.

Firstly: Intel has a massive grip on the market. No doubt of that. Might that be caused by some sort of malfeasance? GN sure seems to think so. But beyond that, a huge reason is the abysmal performance(/- per watt) of previous APUs. That's something that can't be brushed off, no matter how fond one might be of AMD. I have an A8-7600 in my HTPC, and it's ... okay. But I'm pining for an upgrade to a 2200G or 2400G. Anyhow, previous mobile APUs were really not good - they used as much power as a 15W i5 or i7, yet at best performed similarly to an i3 or Pentium. The iGPUs were a strong point, but were useless in the end due to the weak CPU performance. This alone would exclude these chips from the vast majority of laptops.

Now, this doesn't really explain why we've seen so few Raven Ridge laptops. There's just barely been movement there since the initial launch. This might indeed be indicative of what GN reported. It might also be indicative of other things. One is the relatively weak battery performance of RR. AnandTech speculated that a large part of this is due to the lack of support for LPDDR3, pushing base platform power very high. After all, the Acer AT tested used as much power while idling as the Surface Book 15", which has a display panel drawing almost 4x the power of the Acer's panel. If the RAM alone is the culprit, or if we're seeing evidence of a more generaly under-optimized system, is still not known. But battery life is a big selling point, and this might push OEMs away from RR, at least in this generation.

In other words, even this isn't cut-and-dried. I for one hope LPDDR4 arrives sooner rather than later, and shows up in some sweet 13" RR-powered convertible laptops or tablets. Preferably with cooling on par with the new XPS 13, and thus a 25W power limit.

But, let's bring this back to discussing the GPP, no?
 
Top